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LG Electronics develops world's first 50-inch single scan PDP  

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
This should help to continue putting downward pressure on Plasma TV pricing. Expect other Manufacturers to follow.

http://www.physorg.com/news3946.html

"LG Electronics has developed world’s first 50-inch XGA-type PDP modules with the application of single scan technology, and is set to begin its full production and sales in May.

LG Electronics successfully developed an XGA-type PDP module with the application of single scan technology last June, and world’s first 42-inch single scan plasma TV the following month.

The single scan technology applied to the XGA-type PDPs can reduce plasma TV costs by about 20%, versus the existing dual scan technology."
post #2 of 22
What is single scan?
post #3 of 22
That article says a lot without explaining a lot. Can someone explain dual versus single scan?

ss
post #4 of 22
I believe that what's happened is that instead of their being two driver circuits, there is now one.

In all these displays, there are driver ICs that "tell" the pixels what to do. Although we think of this happening all at once, it's actually a very fast sequential process.

So the driver IC needs to be really fast to refresh all the pixels in a fraction of a frame (because a plasma is "driven" many times per frame). I'm taking from the article that to do an XGA wide plasma used to take two chips and now it takes one. That's makes the display cheaper to build.
post #5 of 22
Hmmmm . . .

Brighter, faster, more contrast, and cheaper?????

Panasonic, are you there?
post #6 of 22
Quote:
Originally posted by rogo

So the driver IC needs to be really fast to refresh all the pixels in a fraction of a frame (because a plasma is "driven" many times per frame).
rogo can you explain this a bit more?

Plasmas are driven at fractions of a frame? Those are words that usually dont go together.

ss
post #7 of 22
Thread Starter 
Looks like Rogo was right. Here is a little more info.

LG Cebit 2005


"Meanwhile, LG Electronics developed and unveiled world's first single-scan driving technology-based 42-inch plasma TV in the XGA class. This single-scan driving technology, compared to the dual-scan driving technology applied to XGA models, drastically reduced components, and improved performance, thus significantly boosting price and technological competitiveness.

The single-scan driving technology, which is being commercialized in VGA-class models, was considerably difficult to implement with XGA-class models due to an inability to secure appropriate driving time following an increase in the number of pixels, to ensure complicated driving circuits, and to enhance product reliability. LG Electronics successfully commercialized the technology, the first of its kind, and unveiled the technology-based plasma TV in the third quarter of 2004, and thus this will likely advance the time when the PDP industry will adopt single-scan driving technology for XGA-class PDPs."
post #8 of 22
Wonder if they'll be able to do this with 1920x1080 plasmas.
post #9 of 22
Thread Starter 
Also, Panasonic has been using single scan driving in their ED displays since the 5UY. This is one of the reasons why the HD panels are more expensive to manufacture. Maybe some 4uy/5uy owners may remember this change.

And here is one more explanation.

Plasma Technology

"Achieving High Resolution

While conventional technology, as found in standard VGA resolution screens, uses 2 display electrodes for each horizontal line, applying the same method to achieve higher resolution (>1000 horizontal lines) brings inherent problems. Firstly, the number of electrodes would need to be doubled which would require very high precision production processes. Secondly, the cell aperture ratio would reduce resulting in lower brightness. In addition, the driving scheme would either have to operate with double the speed, again introducing significantly higher cost or a dual-scan technique would have to be introduced. With dual-scan, twice as many driving ICs would be required. In summary, implementing high resolution with conventional technology would result in lower brightness and increased costs."
post #10 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by jrock65
Wonder if they'll be able to do this with 1920x1080 plasmas.
It took them 3 years to transfer the technology from 480p to 720p. I wouldn't expect it anytime soon.
post #11 of 22
Thanks for the info hoodlum. So the dual scan plasmas require 2 integrated circuits per line versus the single IC per line on the single scan?

So I am guessing on the dual scan models the 2 ICs take turns firing to maintain refresh rates?

ss
post #12 of 22
Quote:
Originally posted by subysouth
Thanks for the info hoodlum. So the dual scan plasmas require 2 integrated circuits per line versus the single IC per line on the single scan?

So I am guessing on the dual scan models the 2 ICs take turns firing to maintain refresh rates?

ss
Uh, no, in dual scan each driver IC owns half the panel. Top half and bottom half.
post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally posted by martyj19
Uh, no, in dual scan each driver IC owns half the panel. Top half and bottom half.
You sure?

Quote:
While conventional technology, as found in standard VGA resolution screens, uses 2 display electrodes for each horizontal line, applying the same method to achieve higher resolution (>1000 horizontal lines) brings inherent problems.
ss
post #14 of 22
Plasma displays have 3 electrodes per pixel. 1 scan electrode, 1 sustain electrode, 1 data electrode. The scan+data electrodes charges the cell walls (cell priming) and this is akin to "addressing" the cell. This addressing is done "actively" (hence active matrix) one line at a time sequentially.

Now for Dual scan PDP : top half and bottom half of the screen are addressed seperately in order to reduce the addressing time. This is because AC PDP's are very slow at addressing compared to DC PDP.......but that is another story

Single Scan PDP : All cells are addressed sequentially in one sweep. Takes twice as long theoretically.

This is good because: It reduces complexity, cost, power consumption and increases panel lifetimes

This is bad because: it reduces the time the cell can be active thus reducing brightness and number of colors displayed.......:)

Now to continue, once all the cells are addressed then they are activated using the "sustain" electrodes. (all at once display driving)

Cheers
post #15 of 22
Here's one reference
http://www.fme.fujitsu.com/products/...technotes.html

This paper discusses a refinement to the buffers ahead of the panel drivers
They have a block diagram on page 999 that shows the upper and lower driver ICs
http://vlsi.ee.nsysu.edu.tw/papers/T...5_01196431.pdf

The limiting factor in drive speed is the amount of time the cell takes to charge. This is why it is inherently difficult to speed up and the increased number of scan lines involved in HD vs. the refresh rate causes the problem.
post #16 of 22
Thanks guys, I re-read it and I see where I went awry. Those are relatively unrelated essays. One citing problems with moving forward the other explaining how LG has moved forward.

I think I got it.

Still confused by rogo's fraction of a frame thing tho.

ss
post #17 of 22
Plasmas manipulate the display in sub-fields, or fractions of a field. A field, as you know, is half of a frame when the source is interlaced.

Plasmas don't only fire once per pixel for each field, but instead in even shorter bursts.

Quality processing of these sub fields allows for excellent picture quality, achievement of proper greyscale, etc. etc.
post #18 of 22
Well heck. It's only Monday and I was already wrong once this week. The extra research to be sure didn't hurt.
post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally posted by subysouth


Still confused by rogo's fraction of a frame thing tho.

ss
Since PDPs cannot vary the current to produce grayscale they must use constant intensity (voltage) over "TIME" to produce grayscale.

This means for a 10bit PDP panel each cell may be addressed up to 10 times per frame to get the correct grayscale value. That doesn't even include the active time of the cell which can include up to 6 pulses per cycle.

So the addressing (scanning) time must be a very small fraction of each frame time period.

Cheers
post #20 of 22
Awesome info. I am getting it. How about the sub pixel phosphor blocks? Are they addressed seperately? Does each phosphor third of each pixel have 3 electrodes?

ss
post #21 of 22
Quote:
Originally posted by subysouth
How about the sub pixel phosphor blocks? Are they addressed seperately? Does each phosphor third of each pixel have 3 electrodes?
ss
I think each sub-pixel is a complete cell with rib-enclosures, 3 electrodes etc....

ALIS is made differently though
post #22 of 22
Here are a couple views of the Dual Scan vs Single scan PDPs.

Note the ribbon connections top and bottom of this 4 Series Panny

Babula posted this:

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/a...453&fullpage=1

Here’s a naked view of the back of a 42PA20, note ribbon connections on bottom only. [Amir posted this photo]

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/a...517&fullpage=1

Here’s a Fujitsu 50†with connections top and bottom [photo compliments of Dandrewk]

http://home.comcast.net/~dandrewk/Fuji1.jpg
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