Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 413

St Rich -

(I just realized that you are in LA, like me). How long did you wait when doing the G* test? On the CBS digital channel, sometimes it may initially show "Fail", but then it will start incrementing packets after a while, even while still indicating "Fail". Maybe you didn't wait long enough?

As far as your channel 10, it could be that the VBI packets you are receiving there do NOT contain TVGOS data. In theory, the only stations that may have TVGOS data are PBS analog or CBS digital stations.

Bad theory... ABC in the MSPL, MN area has TVGOS and I believe FOX also does.

But from reports here, PBS and CBS are currently the most common providers.

You should do a complete factory restore and start from a clean box. That is what I did. I had recordings that I lost at the time, but thought my time better spent than avoiding the inevitable. Can not hurt since you are not getting any guide. Or you can continue to fiddle with it for some more days/weeks. Your choice. Nothing else to offer than what has already been posted.
Michael

No, it doesn't work that way:

a) If you see VBI incrementing after about 10-20 seconds, the station MAY be transmitting TVGOS data.

b)If you don't see VBI incrementing after about 10-20 seconds, the station definitely is NOT transmitting TVGOS data.

Please try 24 and 10-1 again, but wait until after the FAIL comes up and see if the VBI starts incrementing soon thereafter (you can't go just by the FAIL.)

I would try one more thing before a factory reset. My unit lost listings for a couple of weeks recently for no apparent reason, and what seemed to fix my issues was a factory reset of the guide itself. A total factory reset as mentioned above will give you the same result as far as the guide goes, but also deletes all recordings. It should work the same, but is a last resort if there's any recordings you want to keep.

Go back into the TVGOS menu where you run the G test from. The selection above the G test is to reset the TVGOS system to factory defaults. This will totally wipe the guide section of the unit, but leave your recordings and channels intact. Once you're powered up and back in you'll have to re-enter all your location info. Go through the steps and power off at least overnight. When I went through this, it took a few days for the channel grid to come back (blank at first) and another day or two for the listings to start filling in. So give it several days before you decide it didn't work.

I'd try that as a next to last resort before doing a total restore.

Last night I ran the G* test for the vbi packets for our digital CBS 46.1 station and at first it did not pass, but I waited and it showed packets slowly ( first one after 22 seconds) appear. Later, during the download time of 11:01pm (eastern time) the vbi passed and packets were coming in fast. I don't know yet if this station is just testing the system or if they are up and running. Didn't want to jump the gun on forcing this station as the host if they are not fully set up on the TVGOS system. Has anyone heard back from the engineers at WGCL lately?
Michael

Hey, that's good news. I don't remember if I posted in this thread or the Atlanta OTA thread, but I got an email from Steve Flanagan at CBS46 last week (9/10) answering the question about digital TVGOS and he said:

If by TVGOS you mean TV guide the answer is yes. We hope within the next 30 days.

So they may very well be testing it now.

I noticed in the pages from the 753... menu, that there is a fail clock channel( usually the host channel) and a clock set channel( some other channel, mine being either 8 or now 46.1 as of today. But sometimes when I have checked it is fffffffd. Same with the VBI channel. It will be fffffffd. Other times it is the channel that I am on. Any thoughts on this? What it means?
Michael

Yes, it has been talked about for 8 months. The G* test screws up the current VBI channel number and if it sets the clock during your G* test that screwed up channel gets saved. Then when the SONY tries to tune to that (fffffffd) channel to set the clock it fails. After starting the G* test press channel up and down then the VBI channel will be correct and if the clock is set the last clock set channel will be correct.

Thanks, now I understand what was meant in a previous post somewhere on this with the channel up/down while in the test. I know I read it recently, but can't seem to remember exactly where. Guess that is why I noticed the ffffffd and what prompted the question. Weird how the brain works.
Michael

As a Charter Communications stockholder, I ran across this press release from AP today:

" If the nation's largest cable TV operators have their way, the home digital video recorder could soon become a relic.
Leading the way is Cablevision Systems Corp., which plans to roll out a system in early 2009 that will let viewers record any show without a DVR, only a digital set-top box. Shows will be stored on Cablevision's servers instead of a home DVR -- a shift the company said could save it upward of $700 million."

Now, I would never give up my Sony. NEVER. And there is the fact that the STB will not allow skipping commericials. Plus, THEY WILL KNOW WHAT YOU ARE WATCHING. So much for Neilson. But money has a way of making these ideas work eventually. I doubt if someone is going to make a really good DVR in the near future, but I can dream. I may use this winter, huddled inside against the cold, to build something out of laptop that can be used as an upgrade to our DVR and still supply the quality and functionality we have today.

Joe
proud relic owner.

They have been talking about this for some time now. Its gone back and forth in the courts as to the legality of the cable companies storing content for customers to veiw later. Last ruling said it was OK for this, but this will probably be challanged again.
I really do not see that much of a shift away for personal dvrs because of the limited flexibility of such a (cable ) service. From what I have read, once you have veiwed your show, it will be deleted. There will be no archiving. You will have a time limit as to how long you can store the show before it is deleted. It (the program) really is not yours, it belongs the cable companies. You will not be allowed to copy the program for archivng. As you mentioned, you will not be able to skip through the commercials ( this was a factor in one of the court decesions I beleive). So I think it is safe to say that the personal dvr will still have a market.
Michael

After starting the G* test press channel up and down then the VBI channel will be correct and if the clock is set the last clock set channel will be correct.

Maybe this is obvious, but I just want to make sure.

During the G* Test, the channel can not be changed. So when the intructions say to press channel up then down, you actually don't expect to see anything change/happen on screen, correct?

Incorrect. You need to press Exit to make the screen that shows the counters go away (the G* test continues to run), then press channel up, and then press channel down.

Now I'm confused.

How do we know that the G* test continues to run after we have not just "exited" from the test but even changed channels?

Doesn't the act of exiting end the test? And if not, why not?

The GUI that shows the VBI pass is not on the screen any longer. But the TVGOS tasks that parse the TVGOS packets still run. The TVGOS diag screen show us this.

No, the test continues to run in the background, which can be confirmed by leaving the box turned on and tuned to an analog or digital TVGOS host station overnight. Because the test is still running, in the morning the new 8th day of the guide will be populated, just as if the box had been turned off overnight. This test not only shows the presence of VBI data, but if it's valid TVGOS VBI data, that data is actually processed.

I don't know why Exit doesn't terminate the testing, I suspect it's to help Gemstar validate that their TVGOS data stream is being processed correctly by the device (there are screens within the 753159852 display that show very detailed info about the VBI data, but you can only get to those screens if you exit the G* test screen first.) But in any case, it turns out that this behavior is a good thing, so don't be confused, be happy.

Thanks Frank.

Because Cablevision is not showing any VBI packets on the CBS digital channel, I am not able to experiment with trying to get that as my source. I'm just reading the thread as preparation for when and if they ever do or if sadly I have to attach to an OTA possibility when analog ends.

I'm also not taking any chance on messing with my current feed because it is not constant. For the past few months PBS 13 has not been transmitting data for a couple of days a week, every single week.

Just reading it, the change channel during test seemed odd to me.

Appreciate your taking time to respond.

On another topic, for the first time in well over a year, while recording the Emmy's on a 250 last night, the unit froze when attempting to play what had already recorded. Hope the freeze issue is not returning.

I am having some trouble with my 250. I have done the guide reset, continued to have problems, and resorted to doing a complete system restore.
The problem comes with the unit freezing whenever i try to do anything when it is recording. I have not checked to see where my guide data is coming from. I am in San Diego and there was recently a big change in the channels with respect to Fox and WB switching places. I thought that had to do with the problems i was having so i started fresh.
Anyone experiencing this AFTER a complete format?
is anyone here from San Diego and not having trouble?
thanks

by the way: I am OTA only.

You didn't need to do a complete reformat to fix it. The fix is in the FAQ. The issue is caused by corrupt (out of sync) guide information.

A complete reformat should cure it though (until more channels are added in your area).

I know this is your Procedure See Section 3.2 Lockup Problem Resolution at the bottom
of the page. I'm not questioning that it works. But my experience there is one step in your
procedure that can cause extra work. Anytime the CableCard is removed - it requires
a call to your MSO to authorize the new paring information. That can be a very painful process.

My One Cent Opinion because My Opinions don't seem to be worth Two Cents any more.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but that's not necessarily always the case. Occasionally my Comcast-provided SA cable card mysteriously stops decrypting some channels. I've found that the quick fix is to pop the card out for 30 - 60 seconds (select No for a channel scan), then push it back in and all is well. The card remains authorized, so I never have had to call the head end. Could be a function of different card/head-end technologies, though.

Your $0.01 opinions are still worthwhile

I have Comcast Moto "M" Cards and they always require repairing.

I have a Moto cable card in the SONY and have removed it many times and it always works. I also have a Moto Multi Stream card in my Cable provided DVR and have remove it 10-20 times and it works fine too. In fact I even hot remove the M card and hot insert it (it cures a cable card lock up on the other DVR).

Without that step there is no way to flush the Sony's scanned channel memory. While the cable card is inserted the Sony won't let you scan for cable channels. (If you have never done a cable channel scan, then you can safely skip the cable card removal step.)

I agree removing the cable card lets you do a channel scan.

Even when this all works perfectly.

Why doesn't the next channel add update put you back in the same scenario.

I have had the lockups for a few days after new channels are added to TVGOS listings. But after the full 8 days the combination data that has a mix of old/new channels is flushed and everything returns to normal. I suspect that sometimes bad or partial data is stored in the TVGOS database and the Sony channel list to TVGOS linking table. And that there is no way of purging that bad data without a full format or this proceedure. Being a software engineer, I would suspect that a channel scan that comes up with no channels, would delete all entries in the channel table linked list. This empty list allows you to start from scratch with no errorant links.

My DVRs don't lock up with remote control issues. They lock
up and can't display accurate guide data - even if it is there.
I do the front panel reset and 70% of the time - the guide
unlocks itself. The other 30% of the time it won't unlock
until the next day.

Comcast here in New England is changing Channel Line ups
every couple of days. Maybe now that the fall season starts
tonight they will settle down and so will the guide.

While on the issue of cable cards . . .

Maybe this is a dumb question, but......... if you have a cable card installed in the Sony, do you still have access to the QAM channels? (I've never had a cable card, so I can't check this out for myself).

Yes, but the channel numbers are different. For example, in my case, FOX HD is on 50.1 without the CableCARD, but it's on 250 with the CableCARD. You might gain some channels with the CableCARD, if your subscription includes encrypted channels (which the CableCARD can decrypt). You might also lose a few channels with the CableCARD, if your cable company does not map them.

I had this exact same problem with my HDD250 starting maybe a month or two ago. (I had previously had the infamous "lockup" problem a couple years ago but it managed to heal itself within a few weeks.) This time it persisted, which led me to this thread. After reading until my eyeballs bled, I found the various fixes offered by HoustonPerson and WhatHappend, and I ended up trying WH's method about 2 weeks ago. Worked like a charm. You can get it from spiff's FAQ. I didn't lose any existing recordings, but had to give it a couple days to get the channel lineup and TVG listings repopulated. If I were you I wouldn't even hesitate to try this -- it's no big deal.

I use mostly the clear QAM and analog channels coming over Time Warner's cable, and occasionally OTA ATSC. NO cable card.

On a separate note, I have tried the VBI test to see which stations are broadcasting VBI data. TWC's version of analog PBS (11) and analog CBS (8) both send VBI packets, but nothing yet on the CBS digital (8.1) via TWC or OTA, and of course nothing on digital PBS OTA (15.1). So for now, San Diego doesn't seem to be digital TVGOS...yet.