or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Recorders › Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 469

post #14041 of 29213
I have shared my experience, which hopefully will help others. Trying to argue against my experience is irrelevant, since it is what it is. It's a good thing we dummies have you experts to help us out with our misinformation. Thank you.
post #14042 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by bm4wood View Post

Just to address some fears about this recorder...

When the G* test and the "Set VBI Current Channel" procedures (do a search in this forum for the specifics) are followed, this recorder will work with digital only channels...including the updating of the firmware and program guides. I have successfully, after a power failure that for some reason reset my firmware version to the factory 8.01.??, have had the firmware updated to 8.05.40 and then to 8.06.44 then next day. I have full channel listings. And, even though knowledge has it that tvgos updates "today, tomorrow, and next week" I have had my program guide update "completely" overnight. It actually appears to be working better than before the transition.

By the way...when running the G* test while tuned to our digital CBS station, after a power failure, the clock immediately sets to the correct time.

I have no analog stations turned on, my pbs station dropped out 2 months ago, and all is well with the world. Just FYI, our digital station is 13.1 WMAZ, Macon, GA.


Has 100% analogue stopped in your area?

Is your digital channel CBS 13-1 on RF 13 or RF 4?

Has the clock stayed 100% accurate?
post #14043 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip Chanko View Post

This is also how I finally got a clock yesterday. I'd gotten to the 08.01.42/08.06.44 point and still had --:-- (although in the 753 menu I was showing the correct date). When I got home from work last night I did a soft reboot (exit and TV Guide, right?). After that, I turned the sony on and then it rebooted on it's own once. Then I had a clock (although the clock was off by about 3 hours and several minutes). I then did the force digital host and left it off overnight. This morning the host channel was still blank although i was still at 08.06.44 in the 753 menu. I also now had ads instead of double pane TV Guide instructions. I did the force digital host proceedure, turning it off and left for work. My clock still has not set correctly.

As I said before. I'm willing to be a guinea pig with this if anyone wants me to try any specific steps. While I'm not all digital OTA, it's maybe similar since fios passes the PSIP info correctly for my local channels (I'm not using a cable card so only use this for local on fios).

Chip,

I am in the DC Metro area also. I have been doing a lot of testing recently on how to recover from a complete reset using only digital sources. Hopefully, some of my results will be of use to you. Currently I am using one of my two OTA 250s to run these tests. You may have read some of my previous posts, but to summarize, updating from default software to intermediate to lastest software is not a problem, even without a clock. Also, forcing a digital clock channel is not a problem. Obtaining GMT from the digital source is not a problem. Getting the TVGOS time and panel clock to set correctly is not a problem using an analog time source, but is problematic using a digital time source (haven't done it yet with correct time). Forcing a digital host channel is not a problem with a valid clock, but I haven't been able to do it yet without a clock. If I am successful in figuring out a procedure, I'll pass it along to you to replicate the results.
post #14044 of 29213
HoustonPerson,

The digital CBS station is 13.1. However, they are broadcasting on a frequency of 4. My digital host channel shows up as 4.0 on the PVR. However I do not have 4.0 as a physical channel. They do still broadcast their analog station; but they have never sent TVGOS data over the analog signal. I've done all my tests and set vbi channel while tuned to 13.1. They are the last holdout and plan on analog cutoff middle of this month. And, yes, the clock has stayed accurate. Upon the power failure at my home, however, I did not wait for my clock to just come back...I ran the G* test and it reset itself to the correct time immediately. That's been my experience.
post #14045 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImTheOne View Post

Getting the TVGOS time and panel clock to set correctly is not a problem using an analog time source, but is problematic using a digital time source (haven't done it yet with correct time). Forcing a digital host channel is not a problem with a valid clock, but I haven't been able to do it yet without a clock.

This is where my machine is stuck. I'll keep trying to force the host morning and night but if you say it won't take without a valid clock then I need to focus on getting my time to set. If I do a VBI test or force the host during one of the specific download times maybe this will help? Does anyone know the best time (digital downloads, EST) to do this?
post #14046 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImTheOne View Post

More strangeness. I got tired of waiting for the clock to update and decided to try something else. I started with a soft reset, which immediately got a clock with incorrect time. Much to my surprise, when I started exploring the effect the reset had on the settings in the hidden menus, I discovered that the software version had reset to 08.01.42/00.00.00. I have never seen this happen before with a front panel soft reset.

Another thing I forgot to mention: The download schedule is completely blank. Never seen that before either.
post #14047 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnjohn View Post

If your CBS channel is owned by CBS that is certain to be the one. While tuned to your CBS channel enter (MENU) then (SCREEN MODE) then 9,0,1,2 move down to T V GUiDE enter (G* Factory Test). If the VBI counts do not increment you are not on a channel supporting TVGOS.

Thanks ARNJOHN- I spent an hour going thru every digital channel (OTA and Caable) as you described above and found NONE that showed any VBI count....at least anything that I recognized as a count. I tried the CBS analog (cable) as well with nothing. I do have the clock but it is about 40 minutes slow. I have NO listings in TVGOS.

Is there a MASTER tutorial on what all of the codes mean and how to intiate them? Like soft reboot vs. hard reset etc?

Thanks!
post #14048 of 29213
Hate2sleep, make sure you let the VBI test go for 20 seconds. Sometimes it takes that long to register the packets the first time (on mine it is usually about 18 seconds the first time).
post #14049 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by bm4wood View Post

Just to address some fears about this recorder...

When the G* test and the "Set VBI Current Channel" procedures (do a search in this forum for the specifics) are followed, this recorder will work with digital only channels...including the updating of the firmware and program guides. I have successfully, after a power failure that for some reason reset my firmware version to the factory 8.01.??, have had the firmware updated to 8.05.40 and then to 8.06.44 then next day. I have full channel listings. And, even though knowledge has it that tvgos updates "today, tomorrow, and next week" I have had my program guide update "completely" overnight. It actually appears to be working better than before the transition.

By the way...when running the G* test while tuned to our digital CBS station, after a power failure, the clock immediately sets to the correct time.

I have no analog stations turned on, my pbs station dropped out 2 months ago, and all is well with the world. Just FYI, our digital station is 13.1 WMAZ, Macon, GA.

Did you run the G* test after the power failure or did your info download without any action on your part?
post #14050 of 29213
I ran it after the power failure because I tend to be an impatient person when waiting for a device to do it's thing. I probably waited 45 minutes to see if I'd get the clock back before deciding to just power it on (which set the clock to the incorrect power failure time) and run the G* test. I figured it would be no more work than resetting all my other clocks in the house.
post #14051 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by bm4wood View Post

HoustonPerson,

The digital CBS station is 13.1. However, they are broadcasting on a frequency of 4. My digital host channel shows up as 4.0 on the PVR. However I do not have 4.0 as a physical channel. They do still broadcast their analog station; but they have never sent TVGOS data over the analog signal. I've done all my tests and set vbi channel while tuned to 13.1. They are the last holdout and plan on analog cutoff middle of this month. And, yes, the clock has stayed accurate. Upon the power failure at my home, however, I did not wait for my clock to just come back...I ran the G* test and it reset itself to the correct time immediately. That's been my experience.

Good, maybe it will work here the end of June. Thanks.

Oh yes, does your clock channel and backup clock channel also show 4.0? Or are those two lines blank?
post #14052 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip Chanko View Post

This is where my machine is stuck. I'll keep trying to force the host morning and night but if you say it won't take without a valid clock then I need to focus on getting my time to set. If I do a VBI test or force the host during one of the specific download times maybe this will help? Does anyone know the best time (digital downloads, EST) to do this?

I'm not claiming you can't force a digital host channel without a clock, only that I haven't been successful in doing this in many attempts. Cxgy and Possumgirl have posted digital download schedules several pages of posts back (maybe 5-20). I don't think it matters when you initiate the search, I have tried at various points in the download schedule and let it run from there. If all you are interested in is getting your recorder to work again, you can temporarily hook up rabbit ears and get your clock from one of the analog channels. After you have a clock, you shouldn't have a problem forcing a host channel. If, however, you are like me and want to find a solution for this in the event it occurs post-analog, then keep trying for the host force.
post #14053 of 29213
HoustonPerson,

Here's where I must admit that I have never looked at the "clock channel" or "backup clock channel" but I will look at it when I get home tonight. I just believe that since running the G* test while tuned to 13.1 and that fixing the clock it must be getting that data from that channel. (I may be wrong...but will check on it.)

Called the wife to have her check on it for me.
She says the "Clock Set Channel" is 0:4-1 -- which is still the local CBS digital frequency.
post #14054 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by hate2sleep View Post

Thanks ARNJOHN- I spent an hour going thru every digital channel (OTA and Caable) as you described above and found NONE that showed any VBI count....at least anything that I recognized as a count. I tried the CBS analog (cable) as well with nothing. I do have the clock but it is about 40 minutes slow. I have NO listings in TVGOS.

Is there a MASTER tutorial on what all of the codes mean and how to intiate them? Like soft reboot vs. hard reset etc?

Thanks!

One interesting place to look is (http://home1.gte.net/res18h39/tvgos.....html#DiagMode).
post #14055 of 29213
Thanks again ARNJOHN- Wow ..what a link! Excellent information...unfortunately I contacted COMCAST here (46835) and they are a bunch of idiots! From what I can findout, they are not and will not be carrying the TVGOs on any channel. Is there a way someone could capture a picture of what the screen should look like when you get a channel that has VBI data on it? I have not found anything that looks like a 'count' under the G* trick.
post #14056 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbertram View Post

Dave,

I notice you are in NYC area and are heavily involved in this TVGOS nonsense.

Do you happen to know if WNET Analog 13 is still transmitting analog TVGOS data?

I do not know. But when I tried using 13 (as opposed to 13-1) or 2 (as opposed to 2-1) I did not get VBI packets. (FWIW, I'm on Comcast cable.)

Dave Kristol
post #14057 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImTheOne View Post

[...]These recorders use more than one channel to acquire the information they need. Most information such as the software updates, channel lineup, and channel listings come over the host channel. However time information can come from another source, hence the clock channel. In many cases they are one and the same physical channel, but they can be different physical channels. Look at the last entry on the Section Other-Clocks 2 screen for your clock channel information (Clock Set Chan).

Hmmm. You imply that all the information comes over the (or a) host channel. With some effort I've succeeded in getting software updates and a correct clock. The clock channel is 13-1, so evidently I'm getting clock info via a digital channel. However, my Host Channel is still reported as blank, and I am still without channel listings. Does that square with your statement above?

Dave Kristol
post #14058 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by hate2sleep View Post

Is there a way someone could capture a picture of what the screen should look like when you get a channel that has VBI data on it? I have not found anything that looks like a 'count' under the G* trick.

There are three places that I know of that show TVGOS data. The first and easiest is when running the G* Test the counts in first line of numbers will increase. The second and third are in the 753... screens after you have started and exited a G* Test. Go to the Section ATSC-ATSC Slicer screen and observe that the TVG count is increasing and/or go to the Section Reception-Slicing 2 screen and observe that the count(s) are increasing (probably only the Dummy counts will increase). There is nothing on the screen during normal viewing that indicates the presence of TVGOS data.
post #14059 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kristol View Post

Hmmm. You imply that all the information comes over the (or a) host channel. With some effort I've succeeded in getting software updates and a correct clock. The clock channel is 13-1, so evidently I'm getting clock info via a digital channel. However, my Host Channel is still reported as blank, and I am still without channel listings. Does that square with your statement above?

Dave Kristol

There are three channels in the recorder that I am aware of, the host channel, the VBI channel, and the clock channel, each one independant of the other (i.e. each recorder channel can be assigned to a different TV broadcast channel or all three can be the same [or any combination]). Normally, you will get software updates, channel linup, and channel listings from the host channel, but you can get them from the VBI channel if you are running a G* Test. Time comes from the clock channel.

Hope this clears things up.
post #14060 of 29213
Ok, bm4wood...if I simply unplug my sony, plug it back it, and run the G* test, I should get a correct clock (my clock is incorrect now)? Is this essentially what you did? BTW, I'm 100% OTA digitial (no analog stations in my area broadcast TVGOS info).
post #14061 of 29213
djrich,

All other things being equal, yes (unplugging it would be effectively giving it a power failure). Just be sure the tuner is tuned to your TVGOS digital station in your area before running the G* test. Don't know if power failing it will help or not, but I was just relaying the incident that required me to get my clock reset. Both my "host" channel and my "Clock Set Chan" are showing a digital signature from the same CBS station.
post #14062 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImTheOne View Post

There are three channels in the recorder that I am aware of, the host channel, the VBI channel, and the clock channel, each one independant of the other (i.e. each recorder channel can be assigned to a different TV broadcast channel or all three can be the same [or any combination]). Normally, you will get software updates, channel linup, and channel listings from the host channel, but you can get them from the VBI channel if you are running a G* Test. Time comes from the clock channel.

Hope this clears things up.

A bit, but not completely. Although I've gotten software updates and clock setting, I do not have a Host Channel, and I do not have channel lineup. Your statement "but you can get them from the VBI channel if you are running a G* Test" implies I could get channel lineup from without (or from other than) my Host Channel (which I don't have).

And what precisely does "get them from the VBI channel if you are running a G* Test" mean? Tune to (presumed) VBI channel and run G* Test?

Thanks
Dave Kristol
post #14063 of 29213
Hi, sorry to interrupt. I have a simple question for anyone out there who can answer it. I have 2 hdg-dd500's and 1 hdg-250. One of the dd500's has started putting a green diamond shape icon beside a program name in the "Recordings" list in the TVGOS. This diamond shap has a brown check mark in it. There is a list in the Manual explaining each of the icons used for recordings but this one is not included. Any help would be appreciated.
post #14064 of 29213
The green diamond with checkmark indicates that the recording is set to not be deleted until you intentionally delete it (not be automatically deleted to free up disk space when it gets old). You can set this individually for recordings, and there is also a global setting for new recordings somewhere in the setup.
post #14065 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImTheOne View Post

Another thing I forgot to mention: The download schedule is completely blank. Never seen that before either.

now that you mention it, I've been meaning to ask where you see the download schedule...is it one of the screens you can reach when you use the 753... code to check the host channel? Thanks - Tony
post #14066 of 29213
Based on my personal experience after a reset several months back, I can testify that one reason for not getting a clock and channel linup overnight in spite of forcing your Sony to the digital host channel is that if it reboots during the download that would normally produce a valid channel linuep, you end up back with no clock nor channel lineup. I could suggest you stay up all night watching your Sony for the "Welcome" message that comes up after a reboot, but maybe you should try one of these:

a) Set up a video recorder to watch your Sony overnight for the telltale reboot (stop-motion, 1 frame per second is ok and will save a lot of memory/tape.)

b) Disable auto power off, run the G* test while tuned to your digital host channel, and keep an eye on the Sony for a couple hours for a reboot. This process accelerates the attempted download of channel lineup and will usually precipitate a reboot within a couple hours if one is going to happen at all.

If, as I did, you notice it rebooting every night or during the G* test, you need to use another zip-code to complete the channel lineup download, as the one for your current zip-code is overflowing some sort of internal buffer in the Sony and causing the reboot (and thus getting you nowhere.) Try changing your zip-code to a distant suburb maybe 40 miles or so away that is likely to receive the channels you are interested in but not as many as your current zip-code does. In the Philadelphia area, I've found that 19601 for Reading, PA does the trick and eliminates the rebooting during channel-lineup downloads.

For more background on this "feature", see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post15209864

As always, this may not be your problem... but it has helped me and several others get past this point.
post #14067 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by bm4wood View Post

Both my "host" channel and my "Clock Set Chan" are showing a digital signature from the same CBS station.

Here is my theory about what determines whether the G* Test sets the clock or not. I believe the clock will only get set during a G* Test if the clock channel is the same as the G* Test channel. So if your clock channel shows fffffffd, or is different from the channel you are running the G* Test on. your clock won't set during the G* Test. I came to this conclusion because whenever I lost power, my clock would be off by about 40 minutes. I could then run the G* Test and within 2 minutes my clock would set. After I Reset Factory Defaults on my unit, the G* Test would no longer set my clock (when I didn't have a clock) even after getting updated to 8.06.44. After my clock finally got set, I never tried to reset, and see if I could get it to come back.

Just to show how unpredictable these things can be, I decided to do a TV Guide/Exit reset and see if I could get my time back with the G* Test. When I did the reset, my system completely reset, and I lost my guide data, and my software version has reverted back to 8.01.42/0.00.00. I have reset this way before and never had this happen. So now my clock channel shows as fffffffd, and my host is blank. I'm going to try to recover by just doing the force host channel, and see what hapens.

Mark
post #14068 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by bm4wood View Post

HoustonPerson,

The digital CBS station is 13.1. However, they are broadcasting on a frequency of 4. My digital host channel shows up as 4.0 on the PVR. However I do not have 4.0 as a physical channel. They do still broadcast their analog station; but they have never sent TVGOS data over the analog signal. I've done all my tests and set vbi channel while tuned to 13.1. They are the last holdout and plan on analog cutoff middle of this month. And, yes, the clock has stayed accurate. Upon the power failure at my home, however, I did not wait for my clock to just come back...I ran the G* test and it reset itself to the correct time immediately. That's been my experience.

hmm...2 points:
- what does "set vbi channel" mean? The vbi channel is just the channel you are currently tuned to and doesn't mean anything else...

- have you actually CHECKED the CBS analog station for packets lately (i.e., using the G* test) - I was VERY surprised in the last 3 months when ON TWO OCCASIONS my LG3410a switched host channels from PBS analog to CBS analog, which I had always thought did NOT broadcast TVGOS...(now my unit has switched back to PBS and, unfortunately, it is still unstable with respect to getting listings consistently...I have to do a short plug-unplug on it every night if I want to get the next TVGOS download, whereas the CBS TVGOS gave me no such problem...go figure)

I haven't been playing around with my Sony 250, aside from using the G* test to check stations, and indeed both PBS and CBS analog are indeed passing TVGOS packets (3 or 4 per second) this afternoon - I also did the G* test-leave unit on procedure some months ago with my CBS digital station, just to confirm that it was broadcasting digital TVGOS...
post #14069 of 29213
To WS65711, thanks for the response. The global setting for the "Keep until I delete" option is in the TVGOS "Setup" at the top of the guide page. After selecting Setup, select Set Record Defaults.

I also thought that might be the description of that icon. However even though I changed the setting from Keep until I delete, to Delete when space is needed, the green diamond with the brown check mark kept appearing on everything that was recorded. Not only that, but the machine would not let me delete any recorded program. At that point I used one of the Reformat optiions mentioned above and reformatted the drive. At the completion of the reformat process a message came up saying the drive had been reformatted and and error had been fixed.

It doesn't appear to be "completely fixed" though. The icon still shows up on every recording but now I can manually delete them like I could before it started showing up. The global setting in Setup has been set to Delete when space needed since I reformatted the drive.

Thanks for the help.
post #14070 of 29213
Here's a quote from an older post that is now on a spiffspace forum:

"The VBI Search Current Channel code appears to 'force' the unit to search for (and download) VBI data on a channel of your choosing. This can then lead to the correct establishment of your host channel. This can be useful in situations when there are multiple host stations in a particular area, and you want to set the system to use the strongest station."

The procedure is as follows:
While tuned to your designated host station, Press 'TV Guide' on the remote, then navigate to the 'Setup' item, press 'Down' so that the currently selected menu item is the 'Change System Settings.' Then press 963214785 and the Info message will state something similar to 'Searching Current VBI Channel.' I do not have the exact message in front of me at the moment. You are then supposed to simply power off the machine after waiting a couple of minutes and let it stay off overnight. This has helped some force the digital channel when there are analog stations still in the tuner.

Disclaimer: Use this code at your own risk and 'Don't shoot the messenger if it messes things up.' (That was also a quote from the other forum.)

No, I have not checked the analog CBS station for packets. All of my host and clock settings are listed as a digital station.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: HDTV Recorders
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Recorders › Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread