Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 485

Guide listings data is being rejected because you don't have a channel lineup yet.

Yes/Maybe and no.

I'm on Cablevision in the NYC area. Our analog feed came from PBS channel 13. It was also transmitted by Cablevision on the scroll channel 14.

Channel 13 is now failing the VBI test. Cable Channel 2.1 CBS is also failing the VBI test.

OTA Channel 2.1 CBS is passing the test and today gave me almost complete listing.

It seems obvious that Cablevision is stripping the data from the CBS 2.1 feed and converting it to send on analog Channel 14.

There is some difference we are not aware in our units, that for my 250, that converted data is good and usable, but for my two 500 it is somehow deficient.

Your test failed because you have no data on the tested channel. HoustonPerson's test failed because the recorder did not receive the TVGOS data within the first 18 seconds of the test. His test will pass if he presses 2 or exits the test and immediately reruns the test.

Digital downloads occur on a different schedule and for different durations than analog downloads. Look in the 753... information screens at the last download time and match it to the download schedule. This will tell you if you downloaded from an analog or a digital source.

Tune your recorder to WLTX-DT, disable the auto off feature if you use it, leave your recorder on overnight, check to see if you have listings for day 8 the following morning. If you do, the engineer doesn't know what he is talking about and your recorder will be fine. Don't take everything you hear on faith.

Reset means just that. Setting things back to an initial state, which in many cases is zero. Your clock is off by 1 hour because you are at 08.05.40 and not yet at 08.06.44. The additional information in your download schedules is the download schedule for a digital channel. You don't have a host channel yet and you can't get a host channel until you turn the recorder off and let it find one. Counts on many of the screens reset when you get a software update. I would suggest that you turn your recorder off and leave it off overnight.

This is not correct.

I started reading from where I left off last night and didn't see that you and Possumgirl were also responding to HoustonPerson's posts. As of this message, what I posted is correct. I also responded to subsequent messages that show additional progress. Then I started seeing your replies and those of Possumgirl.

How did you succeed in getting the one unit to be digital host only since you obviously have an analog host still available? We have similar setups since I also have 2 units, both OTA only, and I cannot make them stop seeing the analog host.

Last week I once again put my 500 through test. No problem getting clock and both SW updates. After restarting VBI (and reinputting my setup info for good measure) I left it on for 24 hours hoping for a channel lineup. No luck of course.

So I figured since it had never "seen" the analog host I'd try one more thing. I reset user config once to retain the SW updates. Did the G* test being sure 2-1 displayed in both fields, again input setup info, issued the Search Current VBI and turned it off for 24 hours. No surprise the next day when I had my channel lineup and found the host channel was analog 11.

Now my other unit has displayed 2-1 as its host for months but, as I've mentioned before, it's still using 11 whenever it's turned off.

What is not correct about this? This is exactly what HoustonPerson's problem was. His unit has been a brick for probably a week (and I'm partly to blame because I never suggested that he do a G* Test, because I assumed he already had, until today). His unit basically had never come out of reset mode, and the Power On field indicating N/A proved that.

Mark

I have both of my HDD500's hooked up to OTA and cable. I also recently purchased a Mits TV that runs version 9.something TVGOS. I have a PBS analog station and a CBS digital station that broadcast TVGOS data OTA, and the analog TVGOS from the PBS station also comes in over cable. I've never tried the G*test on the QAM digital CBS channel, so I don't know if it passes the TVGOS data or not. According to the "host ID" field in the diagnostics all three of the devices are using the analog cable PBS station as the TVGOS host.

I read in an earlier post today about the ImTheOne method to use the last d/l time to determine if the host is analog or digital. I plan to look at that, but I probably won't have time to look at it tonight.

I purchased a Sony DHG HDD250 about three weeks ago, a new but refurbished unit from a friend of a friend who was reselling them. The machine worked great, until a 30 power outage on Wednesday evening of last week (4 March). Now, the clock will not set correctly and I sometimes have trouble getting the guide information. The clock is usually somewhere between 11.5 hour and 20 minutes late.

I'm trying to read through the comments in this thread but am a bit overwhelmed. Is the somewhere that the diagnostic information/trouble shooting procedures are spelled out other than in this thread? I'm in the Dallas/Fort Worth area (Fort Worth side) if that helps and get my signal solely over the air.

Thanks so much.

Quote below from an engineer at our local (Hartford, CT) PBS station. Possible that the same thing has been happening across the country as there seems to be a much higher reported rate of listings failures without stable digital TVGOS feeds:

"CPTV has been informed that Macrovision / GemStar had decided to stop uploading the TV Guide data to their analog encoders after 2/28/2009, because their budget forecast only allowed for that length of time.

Origionally, analog OTA broadcasts were to have ceased on Tuesday February 17, 2009, but the government later extended that date to June 12, 2009.

So in the mean time...No further analog TVGuide updates until...

AT&T is scheduled to install the DSL network for the digital encoder updates on Thursday March 19, 2009. Then it will be up to Macrovision / GemStar to do the rest.

CPTV has been informed that...

"With the correct cable headend equipment, the Gemstar ATSC data can be converted to VBI data and the data would then be available on the basic cable tier. A DTV PAL converter box can also provide the ATSC data>VBI data conversion for Gemstar legacy equipment."

And that...

"Gemstar will definitely work with the cable systems carrying their TV Guide data once the data is available for decoding."

So there is still hope for legacy equipment."

Need a little more info to see if the power outage did anything other than mess with your clock.

Go into your guide screens and navigate across the top to setup and select it. Move down one to Change Settings but do not press select. Instead, enter the following number from your keypad: 753159852. That will display an info screen.

Look in the top left corner at the GMT date/time. The time should be exactly 5 hours ahead of your current time. Also you should see [3] following the time. Now just below there are some data lines. The second line should start 08.01.40/08.06.44. If you don't have 08.06.44, what is there?

Lastly, press DOWN twice on the remote to go to the clocks 1 screen. In the offset (sec) from UTC you should see -21600.

I'm in the Dallas area. Last week it would appear Channel 13 stopped their TVGOS signal, even though I had contacted them and they said it would continue until June 12. I have two 250s, one 500, and a Panasonic analog only DVR running TVGOS v9. Last week, all of them did not have listings past Monday, and the Host Channel was blank. I'm OTA only.

Friday night at 1:30am, I did the G* Test on CBS 11.1 on the 500, got the usual 1023-66532 number, channel up, channel back to 11.1, G* Test now showed channel as 11.1. I then performed the Force Host Channel setting and shut it off.

I did the same thing on one of the 250s, but I never could get the G* Test to display 11.1, so I did NOT perform the Force Host Channel setting.

The next day, I checked them around 5pm and both had fully populated the listings for all eight days. The Host Channel was still blank and the Clock Set Channel was 19, which I believe is what CBS digital really is.

I did the G* Test on the other 250 last night, but haven't had a chance to check it. I did a Force Host Channel setting on the Panasonic, but also have not had a chance to check on it.

I've never had the host channel be blank before, but it seems to be working. I had guide data through next Sunday as of last night.

Also, I have a Pioneer plasma running TVGOS v8, the same as the Sony's are running, that is working fine, and its host channel is 13! Go figure.

Anybody in Dallas having similar results?

First, I'm wondering what happens if the G* test is performed on a TVGOS station at a time when no download is being broadcast....

That question aside - with respect to use of the G* test, I've had a generally puzzling experience during the last week, beginning when the SF area Sony and LG3410a units stopped receiving TVGOS downloads...

During the entire 4 days with no downloads on my Sony (and ever since), CBS 5.1, the local digital host, passed the G* test, as did analog 5 (at least for me), but not analog 9 (PBS). Both my Sony and my LG has long had PBS 9 as their host channels. (In passing, when I noticed that analog 5 had vbi packets, I pushed my LG to analog 5 as host - successfully, since it has since received normal nightly downloads and shows 5 as its host channel...)

I left my Sony alone (aside from doing G*tests), turned off overnight as usual, but received NO downloads until Saturday night (when I left the unit on after doing a G* test)...to all appearances (based on the G* test), 5.1 continued to broadcast data during the week, but no one (as far as I know from this thread) had a unit that was actually getting it...So perhaps there was something unexpected or deficient ABOUT the data...and given that it began on the same day that ANOTHER station stopped broadcasting data (i.e., PBS 9), it's either a remarkable coincidence or had to do with what Marcosightless was SENDING them...

As for where the data the Sony has been receiving are coming from, who knows? The download record on my unit shows ZERO downloads since 3/9...despite seemingly normal overnight downloads the last 2 nights, except of course for no host channel...(I'm talking about the multiple page-record that follows the multiple pages of DL schedules...) The LastDLDtart and LastDLEnd both have n/a...

Finally, doesn't the vbi test on any analog channel pass if CC is being broadcast? I've actually been puzzled that right now on the major network analog stations in the SF area, I get vbi only on CBS 5 (at least in the afternoon....I haven't been checking in the evening, when it may be more likely that CC is being broadcast...)

Would be interested to know if anyone still gets the VBI packets from WLTX channel 19 in Columbia, S.C. but the engineer I spoke to knew exactly what I was talking about and he advised they were sending out their digital data but were not supporting the TVGOS. He was adamant about that because I asked him twice. I asked if they were at some point going to support TVGOS and he said no.

Although it won't help your situation, because it sounds like the guy you were talking to DID know whether or not they broadcast TVGOS data, you might be amused by my commentary in another thread about my experience talking with engineering at our local PBS station, because I was amused at how little they DID know about their TVGOS broadcasts (other than that they existed!)...http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post16051192

In the never-ending saga....

A few people have insisted that if you do a brief recording at, say, 12:30 AM on the (presumed) digital host channel, then you'll get your program listings. That didn't work for me, but that could be because I have yet to get a channel lineup.

Dave Kristol

Some data is transmitted 24/7. According to this message courtesy of bwall23, clock data is sent out 4 times a minute. I know ZipcodePkts come in regularly also. So, there is other data besides Guide data being broadcast all the time.


You lost me a little on some of this, but if you are wondering why the Sony didn't find another host channel, first it takes 3 days for the Sony to give up on a host channel, so it will sit there looking stupid ignoring the channel with data, preferring the channel without data. After 3 days I'm not sure what happens (because I never waited that long before trying to intervene). Secondly there is some mystery about what happens on the digital side. My unit with a blank host channel got data for 2 nights, and then locked in on the correct host channel... and that was the end of my downloads. No Listings for the next 2 nights. I'm going to give it one more night, and then reset my user configuration in hopes that it will lose its host channel, since that seems to be the only way my unit will download guide data now.


I know my LastDLStart, and DLTimer fields showed N/A until my host locked in (LastDLEnd still shows N/A, does that mean the downloads are neverending?). Now they show times, but apparently my Sony has decided not to do anything during those times.


I always read that, but I never witnessed it myself.

Mark

Not sure, I've sent an email to the engineer at my local PBS station and they told me to contact TVGOS if I had any problems.

So theres no way to hook these things up to the internet, even with an external adapter box, CAT5 into the adapter box, USB out? I don't know......I know I'm grasping at straws, but these things shouldn't be this hard to operate, its becoming very frustrating.

Thanks

somebody please help im about to sell this thing because all i do is have problems with it. Both of them dont pick up channel listings and display the wrong time. Also both of them do not work at all with the cable card inserted, every channel says no signal. I have 250 hd's and comcast cable

I am going to turn it "off" tonight. Nothing has really change since noon or so. Except counts on most screens have accumlated all day. Clock is still off by 1 hour. and sw verstion is 08.05.40.

I have noticed if the box is accidently turned off, it usually sets most of the accumlator fields back to zero - to get them started again requires the G test.

I dunno..........two peeps have said leave it "on" all night and one has said to turn it "off".

Did you get the Cable Cards from Comcast? I'm not sure on this, but I think Comcast has to program the cards to translate the channels (frequencies) the programming is actually on to the channels that Comcast's channel listing gives.

You did do a channel scan after getting the Cable Cards, didn't you?

Dave Kristol

This was done as part of my recovery from a full TVGOS reset testing. In my area I have multiple analog channels with TVGOS data and one digital channel (9.1). I ran into a problem with getting the clock set (we exchanged posts related to this) and decided to complete the procedure and come back to the clock issue at a later time. Here's the sequence of events:
turned recorder off
performed soft (front panel) reset
turned recorder on
performed TVGOS factory reset
performed 2nd TVGOS factory reset
tuned to 9.1
ran G* Test
received 08.05.40 software
ran G* Test
received 08.06.44 software
entered setup information (zip code, etc.)
forced clock set channel to 9.1
waited for clock to get correct time
(here's where the problem occurred - no time zone packets for two days - ran parallel test and discovered I only receive time zone packets from the digital channel with recorder turned off - decided to continue test and address clock later)
forced clock set channel to 13-0 (analog) [I should have left it set to digital]
tuned back to 9.1 (now VBI channel)
entered 963214785 command and waited for info box to clear
turned recorder off and left off overnight
next morning:
1 time zone packet received (presumably from analog channel)
clock had correct time
host channel was 9.1
clock set channel was 9.1
channel lineup downloaded
partial listings for the full 8 days downloaded
later:
full listing for 8 days
last download time matches download from digital schedule

I need to rerun the test using a digital clock channel to confirm that the process works completely digitally, but I wanted to see how long the digital host would stick before I do this. Previously, I have only been able to keep a digital host channel for a few days before the recorder switches to an analog host channel on its own.


You can't get a channel lineup without a host channel and you can't get a channel lineup with the recorder on. The channel lineup comes from the host channel. The recorder downloads from the host channel when it is turned off and from the VBI channel when it is turned on. I have never seen it receive data on the host channel when it is turned on. Others do not agree with this, but this has been my experience.

The Power On field has nothing to do with HoustonPerson's problem.

In order to get TVGOS data from the Internet into your recorder, you would need a device that has a network interface card as input and an RF signal as output. It would have to take the TVGOS data it receives from an Internet source and insert it into the correct position of the VBI in the RF signal. When you attach this device to your recorder's antenna-in connection, it would look to the recorder like the data currently being broadcast by your television station. You can't use the USB port for this. It's not connected to a place inside the recorder that would enable it to process TVGOS data.

Have faith, if all goes well the problems that we are experiencing during the transition will go away and the recorders will behave as they did before all of the transition issues interfered with our enjoyment of these machines.

Another possibility is that Cablevision either hasn't installed digital inserters yet or doesn't have them set up properly. Others have posted that their digital stations have had these types of problems and are currently working through them. I am OTA only so I am blissfully ignorant of what the various cable companies are doing.

As far as your two 500s go, I'm wondering if they have gotten into a strange state and need to go through a reset procedure. There are a number of posters here who have 500s and I don't recall anyone else posting with a problem similar to yours. Have you done any diagnostic tests or tried any level of reset?

Sorry, but I must have missed it in the flurry of info - how do you "force" the clock set channel?

Thanks
Jim