Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 652

WS, in those pictures I see you have BFirst and BPkts; does that mean your Sony Box is getting a legacy TVGOS download? That is what I would get during the old analogue days OR on the Artec. I cannot get that just digital only?

^^^

Not as far as I know. The HostChan that was set is "0:36-0" which is my CBS digital OTA station.

OK

Um? I see there is also LastFrTape too? which I only got on analogue or Artec?


Did Mark or someone tell us onetime they can get a grid without BFirsts or BPkts?

Is it possible your cable card corrects your OTA digital (sort of like an Artec)? I know that makes no sense.

Full 8 day listings, No HostChannel set.

Pic 7927: NumSearch 4 and 0xf78 with 0x04 - somewhat fast to that level. Shortly after this picture was taken it went to 0x05; but HostSUFlag did not change.

Pic 7929: Completely different VBIStats relationships from what WS reports?

^^^

So you finally got your Grid OTA without the Artec?

No, can only get grid with Artec, but have to immediately remove it, to help prevent lock ups. If it is left connected it will lock up immediately. The two grids types in Houston (legacy and digital) are not compatible.

So, basically, Houston (and I guess SF) still do not work correctly.

AFAIK, it works correctly in Dallas, New Orleans, Kansas City, St. Louis (maybe Atlanta?).

Spent the last 4 days in Dallas, at 3 different houses; two with Time Warner (basically the same as Comcast), and one with ATT U-Verse.

Knowing that someday the Sony Box will be a thing of the past, I played with the respective DVR's a lot (several hours).

Each of the Moto Boxes on the Time Warner system allowed recording 2 shows at the same time. I think this is the best DVRs that TW offers at this time. IMHO, it is a POS compared to the Sony Boxes. You could write book on "basic" features missing in the DVRs. Add to that slow, cumbersome and tedious. Just of few of the major items missing; automatic queue backtrack to get across commercials and start in the "correct" place. Custom "catalog" building for keyword searches. Custom channels display listings in the order you want. Automatic native mode resolution - vs. forced fake resolution. Just to name a few. Unfortunately on this 4 day visit all the TW systems I played with had serious compression issues, even on programs that should have been compression free artifacts? I do not know what the problem was; because I have seen good signals before at those 2 locations - so something was not correct?

I got to spend about 8-10 hours with the ATT UVerse. It was a significantly more powerful DVR Moto box than the one offered by TW. Record 4 shows at once is the big plus and in this case it was driving 3 TV's in the house. It was significantly "faster" than the TW system by a factor of at least "4" times; but still not as fast as the current Sony Box. Queuing was similar to the TW system; but because it was a lot faster than TW it was more Sony like - still no automatic backtracking like Sony! No catalog of "keywords" either. I cannot really vouch for PQ or Sound quality since the installation there was all low quality equipment etc. But from what I saw it looked good (I only saw 480i and 720p displays and the 720p was not a good one).

I think everyone knows the quality and level of service is different in every neighborhood and house in the USA. So it is entirely pot luck if these things work for you.

Rovi promises to offer real DVR's (through companies that make them; Tivo, Pace, etc. ) next year that are more Sony like in performance and features, whole house boxes, and record 4 channels at once. Of course those promises have been made before too.

Sorry if this have been covered but I lost all HD channels (I'm on Comcast in Boston area) recently and speaking to Customer support, the "converter box" would fix that. When I got to comcast I was told No box since I'm on basic. I'm connected straight to the cable, no box, no cable card, no nothing. Would the converter box have got my HD channels back or a cable card? I don't think the converter box would work with my Sony hdd250s but a cablecard might? Any insights or (As I suspect) do I have to upgrade my service? Then I think I'm OTA only..

The SONY was developed before the M Card was designed. I would see if you can get a Single stream card. The TIVO HD guys need the M CARDS to save them money per month, so the Cable company shouldn't mind doing the swap.

A few weeks ago I swapped out my cable card because I was trying to eliminate possible problems. They replaced it with an M-card.

It took about a weeks later for my system to start to work properly...in the normal spurts and fits along the way. To make a long story short...With Cable Card in (M-card) and OTA I am doing well. Had one suprise on Saturday morning when my grid had no listings except for Saturday, but by Sat night, it was back.

So for me, the M-card works. At first, I had constant lockups, but after a little help from HoustonPerson (the 5 min unplug, replug) I have be lockup free.

Hope this helps

Cw

Came home 30 minutes ago, and after 3+ days of waiting I have a grid and full listings for the next 8 days! Cwallace56's method worked for me, here in the SF Bay Area (Palo Alto). Host Channel is showing as 1:0-5

To summarize, here's what I did last Friday (11/20/09) morning (around 10:00 AM):

1. Split the comcast raw cable feed into both the ANT and CABLE inputs of the DVR (as per instruction from cwallace56)
2. Performed factory reset
3. Updated the software to .21 version
4. Did rescan of both ANT and CABLE channels
5. Reset the TVGOS and used 94306 zip code (made sure to state that both ANT and CABLE were used in TVGOS setup)
6. Turned the unit off and let it sit until today (Monday, 11/23/09). Note: The clock on the front panel was set by approximately 1:00 PM on Friday.
7. Turned the unit back on at 4:25 PM to find a grid and full listings!

Wanted to say many thanks to Cw, Joe, and everyone else for their help! Time to go play around with the unit. Will update with any other findings.

-D

In this case it doesn't matter which card you have. The S card can only support one QAM 256 stream and the M card can support 5 QAM 256 streams or 6 QAM 64 streams at one time. The M card was developed to support dual QAM tuner dvrs by using a single card instead of using two S cards. They no longer make any S cards. By the way both the S card and the M card can be used in single Qam tuner devices that are one way and tru2way capable. The M card is used in single and multi QAM tuner devices that are one way and tru2way capable.

The problem you have maybe related to the wiring configuration that you mentioned in this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=18799
If you still have this setup or something simular you maybe having problems with your return path signal dropping out, which causes the card to deactivate which inturns TVGOS see as a cable card removal and sends the guide back to start to aquire a in the clear cable channel list. If the signal improves then the card reactivates which TVGOS sees as a cable card insertion then sets the guide back to start to reaquire a cable card lineup.

In the clear QAM cable and OTA signals do not have a return path signal so you can get away with your wiring configuration but when you subscribed to digital cable services, (Cablecard, cable boxes, and cable modems), then the return path signal becomes critical for proper digital cable operations.

If this is your problem then my advice that I gave you would solve the problem:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...ostcount=18809

It must be mentioned that older devices with QAM tuners with Cablecard slots have less tolerence to weakend return path signals than do newer Cablecard equipped devices. Cable modems also have a better operational range.


If this was an OTA host channel it will be "1:36-0". "0:36-0: is the physical location in your cable lineup. If the host and the clock set channel are the same then you are locked onto an in the clear analog host channel or the virtual analog channel assignment of your host station in a cable card lineup.
If you have 0:36-0 as a host and a number like 702 as a clock set channel then you are locked onto a digital host and 36 is the physical location of your host station and 702 will be its virtual channel assignment.
You can check this in the diagnostics part of your sony menu which is mentioned on page 38 of your sony's manual.
http://www.docs.sony.com/release/DHGHDD250-500rev2.pdf


The message you got is not refering to the channel list in TVGOS but the channel list that is stored in your dvr. It is mentioned on page 41 of your owners manual:
http://www.docs.sony.com/release/DHGHDD250-500rev2.pdf

It states: The channel +/- list contains all of the channels to which your HD DVR will tune as you use the channel +/- buttons. Note that the channels that your HD DVR can tune may not be the same channels which maybe listed in the TVGOS program guide.

Jed1 -

Thanks for the detailed, informative post.

I'll have to check concerning exactly how many connections and splits and such that I have in my cable line currently. I have made some changes in the past few months, and some connections to seldom used rooms are presently disconnected. I'll need to make a diagram (possibly tomorrow) and PM it to you. I was not aware about the importance of the return path for CableCards. The amp I'm currently using is bi-directional. I'm pretty sure that the cable line to my family room TV currently does not go through the amp at all. I really need to check all of this out and then talk to you more about it, because the fact that I have suffered two of these "CableCard resets" is a real PITA.

The HostChan definitely is OTA. I said it was "0:36-0" from memory, not while looking at the screen. I am absolutely sure about the "36-0" part. I often mix up the leading "0" or "1" since my DVR's are opposite of my TV with regard to RF inputs. But I can assure you that the HostChan is OTA digital CBS, not FSSW (Fox Sports Southwest) which is my cable channel 36.

I checked a few minutes ago, and the cable channel from which I attempted to record the ending of the game is in fact in my Channel +/- list, and can be tuned with the Channel up/down button. The message I got was "the show cannot be scheduled to record because this channel is not present in my Lineup". As I mentioned before, the funny (not) thing is that it will allow me to schedule a recording by the exact same method for an OTA channel, even though my Lineup is totally empty of all channels (no Grid/Lineup).

Edit: Investigating further, I discovered that in simply turning on the DVR and attempting to record (using the "Right" button on the directional ring) a CableCard channel that the DVR is tuned to (WITHOUT changing channels) the behaviour that I described in the paragraph above applies. However, if I change to the channel first, then I can in fact record it. I don't know if this is documented anywhere, I don't recall ever seeing it. But then I really never have tried recording this way before, since in the past I've always been lucky enough to have a Grid and Lineup. Obviously on Saturday the DVR was tuned to the proper CableCard channel for the game when I turned it on. So that's why I couldn't record the ending segment of the game. Then afterward when I changed to an OTA channel, it was the "channel change" that allowed the "record" function to work . . . not the fact that it was an OTA channel. I've found that if I turn the DVR on with it tuned to an OTA channel, I can in fact set a recording on that channel without having to do the "channel change" first.

4 days and no grid yet, all software up to date though.
My girlfriends 500 shutdown after doing a firmware upgrade. Tried to do the SW revert back, but ended up losing everything, all recordings and such. Not sure if there is a way to revert back with out losing the whole setup back to a factory state. This was done through the front panel buttons. SW revert was the power button after the repair question.
Michael

WS65711,

You are correct, it was Jed who got it backwards. 0:x-x is an OTA channel, and 1:x-x is a cable channel.

Mark

Jed1 -

I guess I found that I can't attach a diagram to a PM, so I'm attaching it here so that you (or anyone else that has any suggestions) can see it . . .

 

CableDist112409.pdf 9.7568359375k . file

-D

Glad to hear you had success. Interesting that your host channel is 1:0-5
and mine is 1:0-96 (analog PBS). You never know with these.

After one week of no lockups...last night I started having them on any recording.... really would like to know what changed!?!

That's just how it rolls...

Cw

WS65711,
Can you give what type of amp you have and is it a variable or fixed output and how many dB does it add to the signal. Also can you tell me which hdtv has the cablecard, the 65" or the 46".
It is possible that you can be overdriving (to much amplification) your in coming feed.
Your diagram is very helpful. Also is there a website where I can check the amp out?

Mark,
Are you sure about that. If you go into the TVGOS diagnostics there is a menu section either before or after the clock menu that is called input configuation and this will tell the number of each input.

Of the five TVGOS equipped devices that I haved owned over the last 12 years, four of them I could enter the diagnostics menu and all of them had the cable input as 0 and the antenna input as 1.

Just look at the two quotes below, each one has a cable card and has the analog cable lineup scanned on the antenna input and they both have analog host channels on the antenna input which is 1 on their dvrs.

In fact I gave my version 8 RCA DLP to my sister early last month and she had a cablecard installed by comcast and I had to do the same thing because comcast doesn't have a virtual analog host channel in their cable card lineup. I split her cable feed and scanned the analog comcast cable lineup onto her antenna input and setup TVGOS for antenna and cable. Her host channel and clock set channel is 1:06 which is analog cable channel 6 which is WHP out of harrisburg.

I use a HDD250 with a Comcast Motorola M-Card CableCard on Boston's South Shore and haven't had any problems. In the Boston area, the first CableCard is free for Comcast users, so adding that would be a no-brainer. You don't need to change your service, but Comcast will charge you for a truck roll to have a tech visit your residence since they don't allow customers to pickup and install CableCards in the Boston market.
The only HD channels available on Comcast Basic in the Boston area are WGBH, WBZ, WCVB, WHDH, WFXT, WSBK, and WBPX. In my town I still get all of those with my QAM tuner. The physical channels are 84, 85, 86, 87, & 99 and they map to 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 7.1, 25.1, 38.1, and 68.1. Sometimes Comcast changes the physical channels and you need to rescan from time to time.
Do you still receive the SD channels? Both digital and analog?

No question about it. I'm OTA only, and my host is always 0:x-x.


That is a good point about their host channels. This just makes me think that both of their DVRs were actually getting the TVGOS data over cable, and splitting the cable into the antenna input really wasn't necessary, since they both got the host channel from the cable input, and not the antenna input.

Mark

Mark,
I just checked my TVGOS diagnostics on my version 9 Pioneer and the Section Setup menu / Input configuation it is numbered like this:
0 ANT/CABLE A In
1 ANT B In

If I scroll to the right in that menu I come to a section that is called Tuner Configuation and it says this:
0 DIG Cable
1 ANA-A
2 ANA-B

If I don't use cable I can hook up my OTA antenna to either A or B. With in the clear cable I can use A or B but with the cable card, which I am using in both tvs, my cable feed must be on input A.

My question is are your sony dvrs set up the same way. I looked at your owners manual and it shows the cable input on the far left and the antenna input to the right of the cable input. Please check the Input configuation menu in your TVGOS diagnostics to see how it is labeled.

Mark,

Yes my host is cable 1:0-96... but I tried for weeks to rebuild my grid just with cable in, without sucess. After spliting the cable, I can rebuild a grid in 48hrs....go figure. I'm not convinced that the host channel listed is where the data stream is at all times. Empty host channels and data in?

Honestly, there are some very bright people on this forum trying to make sense of the 953 screens ... and the opinions vary....I stated a few weeks ago that I doubt anyone at sony really knows what these machine are doing. Maybe one or two engineers working now in the mail room.

And why were they discontinued so quickly? After 2012 it's all over anyway.

Cw

The 46" Mits is the one that has CableCard and TVGOS. The 65" Mits is a late 2002 model (WS65711) and pre-dates CableCard, HDMI, etc.

The amp is an older Radio Shack model. It does have a variable output. I'll have to dig out the model number and other info when I get home this afternoon.

The Sony has an Antenna input, and a Cable input. Here are links to a couple of pictures from my TVGOS recovery page:

This one shows it is configured for OTA only.

This one shows host channel as 0:12-0, and VBI channel as 0:12-1.

From previous experience, since my host channel is blank, if I connected the cable line to the cable input and reconfigured it for OTA + Cable, my host channel would become 1:0-12 (cable analog CBS) within 24 hours. My DVR loves the analog cable data, and I have never been able to get the DVR to lock onto the digital OTA host if it can find the analog data.

Mark

And to elaborate, the inputs are pre-defined. The Antenna input (Input-0) works for analog and digital antenna signals, and low analog cable signals below channel 13 (since the frequencies are the same as OTA-VHF). The Cable input (Input-1) works for analog and digital cable signals, and is also the input enabled for CableCard usage. I don't know if anyone's ever tried tuning analog OTA-VHF via the Cable input, but I would suppose that would work.

Attached is a photo I took this afternoon that shows that the Antenna is Input-0, and the Cable is Input-1 as far as TVGOS is concerned. Also attached is an image from page-17 of the HDD500 manual.

Thanks for your reply. No I don't get anything digital anymore only analog 4, 5 etc. Even 84, 85 etc are gone.

/Peter

Next problem now that I don't have cable anymore, now suddenly the grid is not filling in so what do I have to do to tell the Sony to use Antenna only for the grid? I already redid the setup with antenna only.

If you still have a channel grid and you just need to get it to keep on filling with program listings, go into "Change system settings" and change the ZIP code to a distant one that's way out of your area. Then the Sony will get listings from whatever OTA channels it finds with guide data, while searching in vain for an "official" host channel for that ZIP code.

You need to have the correct ZIP code only when you're trying to get a fresh channel grid.

If you've still got your old cable channels in the Sony's +/- channel list, it might help to do a cable channel scan to clear them out (assuming you no longer have a cable signal coming in, of course).

Today, Thursday afternoon, I checked and now have a grid on the unit I reset back to factory settings along with a format of the disk. Installed the firmware .21 version all on this past Saturday the 21st. So makes it about 5 full days to get the grid. Time was back pretty quick and the updates within a day. I did use it for some recordings and such. The only other thing I did this morning was a zip reset, but don't think it help speed things up. Did leave the unit set on the host station when off. All this in a digital only enviroment. OTA only. 2.1 WSB OTA host.
Hope I haven't left out anything. Having a tough time typing as I am using my laptop. Seems like I have a virus or something with my desktop and XP Pro, as it just keeps shutting down and rebooting on me. Will not stay on long enough for me to get a virus scan in.
Anyway, just my report on the dvr, still have to deal with my girlfriends unit as it will not power up past the welcome screen. Hate to do a clean and wipe as she will lose all her recordings. Any suggestions?
Michael