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Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 833

post #24961 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

I don't have high hopes either. Any chance you can receive WJCT channel 7 PBS with a small outdoor antenna? It's supposed to carry TVGOS.

I have an attic antenna hooked up to the master bedroom unit, the unit that has the working analog channel 94. I think I am going to swap the cards and repair them and see if that works. I just don't understand how one MCARD can get 'updated' and the other one not 'update'. It just doesn't make sense to me.

I'm also strongly considering at Tivo unit with lifetime subscription.

What are the Sony DHG-HDD500 units going for these days? I have the original box and remote as well.
post #24962 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by acribb View Post

I have an attic antenna hooked up to the master bedroom unit, the unit that has the working analog channel 94. I think I am going to swap the cards and repair them and see if that works. I just don't understand how one MCARD can get 'updated' and the other one not 'update'. It just doesn't make sense to me.
I'm also strongly considering at Tivo unit with lifetime subscription.
What are the Sony DHG-HDD500 units going for these days? I have the original box and remote as well.

I guess that means the ANT connector is free. If you can get the OTA PBS channel it might still contain TVGOS. And a TVGOS data flow has several zipcodes and not different between cable and antenna. It will prefer the analog data however. Your post indicated Comcast is going all digital and the analog feeds are a mistake. I would get prepared for the loss of cable TVGOS.

Prices on eBay are slowly falling. It's about $200/$400 for the 250/500.

Cards have unique ID numbers. Human error is possible.

Your first sentence is a bit unclear. I'm not sure how to read it. Are you saying you get OTA channel 7.1?
post #24963 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

I guess that means the ANT connector is free. If you can get the OTA PBS channel it might still contain TVGOS. And a TVGOS data flow has several zipcodes and not different between cable and antenna. It will prefer the analog data however. Your post indicated Comcast is going all digital and the analog feeds are a mistake. I would get prepared for the loss of cable TVGOS.
Prices on eBay are slowly falling. It's about $200/$400 for the 250/500.
Cards have unique ID numbers. Human error is possible.
Your first sentence is a bit unclear. I'm not sure how to read it. Are you saying you get OTA channel 7.1?

I was just saying that I could hook up the attic antenna to the unit in the master bedroom. The unit in the master bedroom has the correctly working analog channel 94 cablecard. The unit in the family room has the incorrect digital channel 94 cablecard. I was going to swap the cards and put the bad card in the master bedroom unit and hook up the OTA antenna and see what happens. Or I will sell the family room unit for $350 and move on with my life. It's currently listed on the Jacksonville Craigslist for $350 firm. That's what i'm up against here. smile.gif
post #24964 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by acribb View Post

I was just saying that I could hook up the attic antenna to the unit in the master bedroom. The unit in the master bedroom has the correctly working analog channel 94 cablecard. The unit in the family room has the incorrect digital channel 94 cablecard. I was going to swap the cards and put the bad card in the master bedroom unit and hook up the OTA antenna and see what happens. Or I will sell the family room unit for $350 and move on with my life. It's currently listed on the Jacksonville Craigslist for $350 firm. That's what i'm up against here. smile.gif

I have four 250 units, all bought on eBay. There are two listed now for under $200.

If you can swap the cards, I would connect that antenna to the DHG and rescan for ANT channels and cable channels. The DHG will search both for TVGOS. If the clock sets you have data. It will take longer to get a grid and listings. You might get lucky.
post #24965 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

I have four 250 units, all bought on eBay. There are two listed now for under $200.
If you can swap the cards, I would connect that antenna to the DHG and rescan for ANT channels and cable channels. The DHG will search both for TVGOS. If the clock sets you have data. It will take longer to get a grid and listings. You might get lucky.

Well, I swapped the cards and apparently the tech person I spoke to last night was correct. The working card is now receiving channel 94 digitally, so I guess it was true that it had not been updated. The working card had probably not been sent a refresh signal which allowed it to still tune channel 94 as analog. So now neither card receives guide data. Well maybe the master bedroom unit does via antenna. I have emailed Rovi to see if they can somehow contact Jacksonville Comcast and get the headend to transmit channel 94 analog again via CableCARD.

In the meantime, I have both for sale for $350 each, + actual shipping costs. Both work perfectly and are cosmetically perfect and I have the original boxes and remotes for both. I just don't have time for this anymore.
post #24966 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by acribb View Post

Well, I swapped the cards and apparently the tech person I spoke to last night was correct. The working card is now receiving channel 94 digitally, so I guess it was true that it had not been updated. The working card had probably not been sent a refresh signal which allowed it to still tune channel 94 as analog. So now neither card receives guide data. Well maybe the master bedroom unit does via antenna. I have emailed Rovi to see if they can somehow contact Jacksonville Comcast and get the headend to transmit channel 94 analog again via CableCARD.
In the meantime, I have both for sale for $350 each, + actual shipping costs. Both work perfectly and are cosmetically perfect and I have the original boxes and remotes for both. I just don't have time for this anymore.
I'm sure your fate awaits me too. For now I get what I get. I hope you get something via OTA. These are the next best thing to a TiVo. Good luck.
post #24967 of 29213
post #24968 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by acribb View Post

Well, I swapped the cards and apparently the tech person I spoke to last night was correct. The working card is now receiving channel 94 digitally, so I guess it was true that it had not been updated. The working card had probably not been sent a refresh signal which allowed it to still tune channel 94 as analog. So now neither card receives guide data. Well maybe the master bedroom unit does via antenna. I have emailed Rovi to see if they can somehow contact Jacksonville Comcast and get the headend to transmit channel 94 analog again via CableCARD.
In the meantime, I have both for sale for $350 each, + actual shipping costs. Both work perfectly and are cosmetically perfect and I have the original boxes and remotes for both. I just don't have time for this anymore.

Before you sell your units, it may be worth trying this: Split your cable and send one cable output into the Sony cable-in and send the other cable output in the Sony Ant-in. Rescan both Ant and cable.

I recently moved into an area that was serviced by Comcast only. I added Comcast cablecard to both my Sony DVRs. I tried for weeks to get the TVGOS, but, nothing ever showed up. Comcast technical support was not able to help me. I did receive a call from the Comcast VIP Executive Support Team and they told me that when they went all digital, they stripped out the TVGOS data stream as it was a conflict with the services that they sell. In other words, why should they pass thrugh a TV guide when you could be purchasing their DVRs/premium services and get their guide.
Even though Comcast said that they were all digial, I believed that their were remnants of the analog signals on the cable line. So I did the signal splitting thing. The Ant portion of the Sony DVR found the Clock and TVGOS data. The Cable portion of the Sony DVR went through the cablecard and work as normal. During the TVGOS setup, the systen asked and I selected Comcast Digital (possibly Comcast digital cablecard). My clock quickly sell and the next morning I had a grid with listings for most of the channels on my cablecard. Both units are running fine, no issues. I disabled all Ant channels except the host using the TVGOS editor.

Thanks
James
post #24969 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by acribb View Post

I just don't have time for this anymore.

Others in your situation have feed the same signal to both the cable and OTA inputs using either splitters or distribution amplifiers. The OTA input is able to tune the analog channel 8 cable signal since cable channels 2-13 use the same frequency assignments as OTA RF channels 2-13. May not be worth the effort if the analog termination date is known. It sure is strange that the cable company refuses to send your cable cards a map that they have provided in the past.
post #24970 of 29213
JoeKustra;
PM me.
post #24971 of 29213
James - unfortunately, your method hasn't worked for me in Central NJ...although I get three analog stations with cable scan (and two doing an antennae scan), the senior level engineer from Comcast with whom I've been working told me neither of those carry TVGOS data and are used by Comcast field techs for diagnostics. My understanding is that the TVGOS data is incorporated into the digital QAM NY CBS affiliate signal sent out by Comcast (TVGOS to CBS via Rovi). I've also engaged Sony "Tier 2" support to see if they can figure out whether a new firmware upgrade beyond v1.21 may be required to enable the DHG tuner to decipher the TVGOS data, but as yet have not heard back. The the senior level engineer from Comcast also wondered if perhaps the circuitry in the DHG cannot interpret the TVGOS from a Digital QAM despite the ability of the DHG to otherwise function properly as a receiver broadcasting content, just not TVGOS; we're hopeful it's a software, and not circuitry (hardware) issue, and looking for help from Sony on that as well.

Lastly, under hidden menus we did a "Factory Default Reset" (unfortuantely eliminating channel listings), and clock went to "----" and under 753... diagnostics was stuck at 1/1/04. Subsequently the senior level engineer from Comcast took my DHG to his home (as his Bravia gets TVGOS off Comcast signal to test), no new grid or restoration of clock on face of unit, however, clock does indicate time and date under 753... diagnostics screen, albeit it's off by a few hours indicating it's misinterpreting the time zone! The tech's signal is from CBS Philly whereas mine is CBS NYC so perhaps Rovi (as per Sony Eng'r report of 6/30) is experiencing "issues" in the NY area.

Either way, I'm really very non-technical and grasping at straws (have read many threads and posted a few before looking for help but still feel adrift); ANYTHING ELSE anyone on this site can suggest to help restore my clock and grid as a fix for my CABLE ONLY setup (3 units) would be greatly appreciated as I too really don't want to give up on my DHGs which I've used for about 10 years now .

p.s. have spent hours on hold at Rovi (literally), and sent a couple emails, all with no reply as yet.
post #24972 of 29213
Sorry, if it was already stated, but you did try feeding a OTA signal to the DVR of your host station and it still didn't work?
Have you tried the old "Artec jump start" method (if you have access to one of those Atrec CECB's?)
post #24973 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by acribb View Post

Sony DHG-HDD500 Fire Sale

Since you must pull the cable cards before selling, and you seem to get legacy data, why not pull the cards, reset the guide, cycle the power, and leave the cable connected? What's to lose? Just check every day to see if there has been any change. Normally I can do a full factory restore and get running 100% in under 48 hours with my legacy feed. I suggest you NOT do a Sony factory restore, but if you reset the guide you won't lose the .21 update and TVGOS patches.
post #24974 of 29213
Honestly HonestLee, you don't really expect a new firmware update from Sony at this point do you? biggrin.gif

The "Reset to Factory Default" that you did wiped out your V-1.21 firmware. You should re-install the 1.21 firmware, or else you will have to run the G*test to enable the processing of digital TVGOS data. The V-1.21 firmware WILL in fact work with digital TVGOS, it's just that it generally takes longer (sometimes much longer) to acquire the Grid. This has been proven to be because the DHG often "misses" some of the data in the TVGOS packets required to build the Grid.

If the TVGOS data exists on your cable line, the DHG will find it, provided it has the V-1.21 firmware, and sufficient time.
post #24975 of 29213
I'm Cable only, can't do OTA; and not familiar with Artec jump start" method, what's that?
post #24976 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

Honestly HonestLee, you don't really expect a new firmware update from Sony at this point do you? biggrin.gif
The "Reset to Factory Default" that you did wiped out your V-1.21 firmware. You should re-install the 1.21 firmware, or else you will have to run the G*test to enable the processing of digital TVGOS data. The V-1.21 firmware WILL in fact work with digital TVGOS, it's just that it generally takes longer (sometimes much longer) to acquire the Grid. This has been proven to be because the DHG often "misses" some of the data in the TVGOS packets required to build the Grid.
If the TVGOS data exists on your cable line, the DHG will find it, provided it has the V-1.21 firmware, and sufficient time.

As to another update, if that's what's needed, I'll push for it, just call me Don Quixote!

As to the V-1.21 firmware, per the 753 diagnostics screen that remained intact, even after a complete Hard drive format we tried subsequently (can't figure that one out)
post #24977 of 29213
p.s. also ran the *G Test with no results...

IF I only saw the slightest hint of data being rec'v, e.g., the clock returning, I'd be ECSTATIC
post #24978 of 29213
The firmware doesn't reside on the hard drive, so the re-format would have no effect on it. I thought I remembered that the Factory Reset wiped the v1.21 firmware, but I must have been dreaming ...
The G*Test doesn't show anything except "Fail" with the v1.21 installed. There are other ways to check for TVGOS data flow, but I've been away from the DHG for 7 months now (although I still own 2) and I don't recall which menu screen you need to look at. If the "Search This Thread" function worked better I could probably find it (see my signature). rolleyes.gif
post #24979 of 29213
Quote:
I'm Cable only, can't do OTA; and not familiar with Artec jump start" method, what's that?
(You need to do a search.)
I didn't come up with the method first, but I did coin the phrase. I thought I posted another procedure on this, but can't find it now. This was three years ago

But, I did find this;
http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=188.0
post #24980 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

The firmware doesn't reside on the hard drive, so the re-format would have no effect on it. I thought I remembered that the Factory Reset wiped the v1.21 firmware, but I must have been dreaming ...
The G*Test doesn't show anything except "Fail" with the v1.21 installed. There are other ways to check for TVGOS data flow, but I've been away from the DHG for 7 months now (although I still own 2) and I don't recall which menu screen you need to look at. If the "Search This Thread" function worked better I could probably find it (see my signature). rolleyes.gif

Again, acknowledging, my lack of tech understanding, where is firmware written to if not the harddrive, the unit's operating system (which I guess unlike a PC you can't wipe out with a HD reformat)?
post #24981 of 29213
It's written to flash memory.
post #24982 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

The firmware doesn't reside on the hard drive, so the re-format would have no effect on it. I thought I remembered that the Factory Reset wiped the v1.21 firmware, but I must have been dreaming ...
The G*Test doesn't show anything except "Fail" with the v1.21 installed. There are other ways to check for TVGOS data flow, but I've been away from the DHG for 7 months now (although I still own 2) and I don't recall which menu screen you need to look at. If the "Search This Thread" function worked better I could probably find it (see my signature). rolleyes.gif
It's been a few months, but I think the first (after 9012) does a complete Sony reset. That's the one that that tells you that a sector has been recovered and wipes everything. The next one, following "TVGOS" and above the G* test does clear the grid & guide listings, but keeps the firmware and patches. A TVGOS reset isn't as thorough, but better if it works.

Funny story. As an old Dodo bird with legacy data I have had issues the last few months. Since my data was restored last Friday I have been only been getting 100 packets per minute. Usually it's 200. I left it set for two days: no change. Rescan: no change. I did a guide-reset on the front panel: no change. Then I pulled power for a minute and restored. That caused the DHG report 200 packets per minute and become quicker with navagation. I can't prove this does anything, but running without data for a week may have made the DHG unhappy, but a power cycle took it back to normal (if that's the right word).

A new firmware update? We'll have a permanent moon base before that happens.
Edited by JoeKustra - 7/12/12 at 9:23am
post #24983 of 29213
If only they didn't buy a movie studio. wink.gif
post #24984 of 29213
Sony got spurred to action resulting in their issuing the 2009 firmware update so with more prodding and being a pest at the right levels of the C suite anything's possible
post #24985 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

Sony got spurred to action resulting in their issuing the 2009 firmware update so with more prodding and being a pest at the right levels of the C suite anything's possible

The .21 firmware update broke my ability to make manual recordings. Don't count on me to ask for Sony to change things after over four years.
post #24986 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

James - unfortunately, your method hasn't worked for me in Central NJ...although I get three analog stations with cable scan (and two doing an antennae scan), the senior level engineer from Comcast with whom I've been working told me neither of those carry TVGOS data and are used by Comcast field techs for diagnostics. My understanding is that the TVGOS data is incorporated into the digital QAM NY CBS affiliate signal sent out by Comcast (TVGOS to CBS via Rovi). I've also engaged Sony "Tier 2" support to see if they can figure out whether a new firmware upgrade beyond v1.21 may be required to enable the DHG tuner to decipher the TVGOS data, but as yet have not heard back. The the senior level engineer from Comcast also wondered if perhaps the circuitry in the DHG cannot interpret the TVGOS from a Digital QAM despite the ability of the DHG to otherwise function properly as a receiver broadcasting content, just not TVGOS; we're hopeful it's a software, and not circuitry (hardware) issue, and looking for help from Sony on that as well.
Lastly, under hidden menus we did a "Factory Default Reset" (unfortuantely eliminating channel listings), and clock went to "----" and under 753... diagnostics was stuck at 1/1/04. Subsequently the senior level engineer from Comcast took my DHG to his home (as his Bravia gets TVGOS off Comcast signal to test), no new grid or restoration of clock on face of unit, however, clock does indicate time and date under 753... diagnostics screen, albeit it's off by a few hours indicating it's misinterpreting the time zone! The tech's signal is from CBS Philly whereas mine is CBS NYC so perhaps Rovi (as per Sony Eng'r report of 6/30) is experiencing "issues" in the NY area.
Either way, I'm really very non-technical and grasping at straws (have read many threads and posted a few before looking for help but still feel adrift); ANYTHING ELSE anyone on this site can suggest to help restore my clock and grid as a fix for my CABLE ONLY setup (3 units) would be greatly appreciated as I too really don't want to give up on my DHGs which I've used for about 10 years now .
p.s. have spent hours on hold at Rovi (literally), and sent a couple emails, all with no reply as yet.

Everything that WS65711 said is true, and good information.

It has been proven numerous times that receiving the TVGOS through a QAM channel works as well as getting it OTA, so that is not the issue (this was also proven by the DHG setting the GMT clock a the Comcast person's house). The clock in the 753 menu will always show GMT time, never local time. That is how it works. The Sony has to get a timezone packet from the TVGOS data, which will tell the front panel how far to adjust its clock so it reads local time (even after this happens, the 753 menu will still show GMT time). You said you saw in the 753 menu that you were still running 1.2.21 firmware, but I don't think that version is visible anywhere in the 753 menus. However, what you will find in the 753 menu is the TVGOS base version which will be 08.01.71 on 1.2.21 firmware, or 08.01.42 on all firmware versions below that. There is one way that I know of to keep the version 1.2.21 even if you do the 'Restore Factory Defaults', and that is if you sent the unit back to Sony for repair, I believe they would permanently install the 1.2.21 firmware files onto the hidden partiton of the hard drive. This is the firmware that gets restored with a 'Restore Factory Defaults'.

If you connected the DHG to cable and, after a couple of hours, it did not even set the GMT clock on the 753 menu screen, then one of these things must be happening:

1) You are running firmware older than 1.2.21, and you didn't run the G* Test.
2) The cable card is blocking the TVGOS data.
3) Comcast's equipment is stripping the data from NYC's signal.
4) Comcast's equipment is munging NYC's data in some other way.

If you are running 1.2.21 firmware, and there is data there, the DHG will find it. From what you described I would conclude that either number 1 or number 3 is what is happening. The fact that it set the GMT clock when he took it to his home eliminates the possibility of a hardware problem in the DHG (and probably eliminates number 1 too, since he probably didn't run the G* Test either). The fact that it didn't get a grid there doesn't surprise me at all since (even with OTA) it can take a few days, to a few weeks, and in a few cases months to build a grid for the reasons that WS65711 explained.

Mark
post #24987 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Sorry, if it was already stated, but you did try feeding a OTA signal to the DVR of your host station and it still didn't work?
Have you tried the old "Artec jump start" method (if you have access to one of those Atrec CECB's?)

Searched online to try and find an Artec box but can't seem to find one anywhere....there are other Digital-to-Analog Converter Boxes. Recall I'm Cable only. Any thoughts on odds for success in using a splitter and another "Digital-to-Analog Converter Box", i.e., so in theory I'd feed converted digital QAM [CBS/PBS, presumably with TVGOS data] to my DHG in analog format thru antennae input. Any guess as to whether that might actually work?
post #24988 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

Sony got spurred to action resulting in their issuing the 2009 firmware update so with more prodding and being a pest at the right levels of the C suite anything's possible

IMO Sony wasn't prodded into doing anything. I believe they had the 1.2.21 firmware done well before 2009 (the date on the 753 menu screen shows 2006). They just waited until just before the digital transition to release it. They probably waited until then to finish dotting the i's and crossing the t's on the final paperwork. I really doubt that there is anyone at Sony working on anything DHG related. It is a dead dinosaur to them.

Mark
post #24989 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Everything that WS65711 said is true, and good information.
It has been proven numerous times that receiving the TVGOS through a QAM channel works as well as getting it OTA, so that is not the issue (this was also proven by the DHG setting the GMT clock a the Comcast person's house). The clock in the 753 menu will always show GMT time, never local time. That is how it works. The Sony has to get a timezone packet from the TVGOS data, which will tell the front panel how far to adjust its clock so it reads local time (even after this happens, the 753 menu will still show GMT time). You said you saw in the 753 menu that you were still running 1.2.21 firmware, but I don't think that version is visible anywhere in the 753 menus. However, what you will find in the 753 menu is the TVGOS base version which will be 08.01.71 on 1.2.21 firmware, or 08.01.42 on all firmware versions below that. There is one way that I know of to keep the version 1.2.21 even if you do the 'Restore Factory Defaults', and that is if you sent the unit back to Sony for repair, I believe they would permanently install the 1.2.21 firmware files onto the hidden partiton of the hard drive. This is the firmware that gets restored with a 'Restore Factory Defaults'.
If you connected the DHG to cable and, after a couple of hours, it did not even set the GMT clock on the 753 menu screen, then one of these things must be happening:
1) You are running firmware older than 1.2.21, and you didn't run the G* Test.
2) The cable card is blocking the TVGOS data.
3) Comcast's equipment is stripping the data from NYC's signal.
4) Comcast's equipment is munging NYC's data in some other way.
If you are running 1.2.21 firmware, and there is data there, the DHG will find it. From what you described I would conclude that either number 1 or number 3 is what is happening. The fact that it set the GMT clock when he took it to his home eliminates the possibility of a hardware problem in the DHG (and probably eliminates number 1 too, since he probably didn't run the G* Test either). The fact that it didn't get a grid there doesn't surprise me at all since (even with OTA) it can take a few days, to a few weeks, and in a few cases months to build a grid for the reasons that WS65711 explained.
Mark

Thx - can you guide to what other ways there may be to check for TVGOS data flow in the diagnostics (or is simply waiting a day or two each time to see if a version update occurred)?
post #24990 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

Sony got spurred to action resulting in their issuing the 2009 firmware update so with more prodding and being a pest at the right levels of the C suite anything's possible
You can scroll up to http://www.avsforum.com/t/537711/sony-dhg-hdd250-500-official-thread/24950_50#post_22210665 for the display of firmware (software) that is active. It's not a TVGOS function, it a Sony function. Menu->preferences->etc.
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