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Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 835

post #25021 of 29213
Rovi data is on the main carrier. Sub-channels have nothing to do with it (or shouldn't).
post #25022 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Rovi data is on the main carrier. Sub-channels have nothing to do with it (or shouldn't).
Thx; any thoughts on why on my DHG I can get correct GMT clock data on 753 menu with [3] next to time indicating I'm rec'v data off cable off a Philly CBS (but clock won't reset on front) but can't get anything off CBS NY from my home, i.e., is that Comcast, CBS, or Rovi issue?

Thx; any thoughts on why on my DHG I can get correct GMT clock data on 753 menu with [3] next to time indicating I'm rec'v data off cable off a Philly CBS (but clock won't reset on front) but can't get anything off CBS NY from my home, i.e., is that Comcast, CBS, or Rovi issue?
post #25023 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

Thx; any thoughts on why on my DHG I can get correct GMT clock data on 753 menu with [3] next to time indicating I'm rec'v data off cable off a Philly CBS (but clock won't reset on front) but can't get anything off CBS NY from my home, i.e., is that Comcast, CBS, or Rovi issue?
Thx; any thoughts on why on my DHG I can get correct GMT clock data on 753 menu with [3] next to time indicating I'm rec'v data off cable off a Philly CBS (but clock won't reset on front) but can't get anything off CBS NY from my home, i.e., is that Comcast, CBS, or Rovi issue?

Do not run the G* test. What is your ClockSet channel? It's on the 753 diag Clocks2. You can keep the [3] for several days after loss of data unless you reset the guide.
post #25024 of 29213
post #25025 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

Could this be true? (Somehow I don't think so...)
http://www.avsforum.com/t/337424/lg-lst-3410a-review-and-discussion/7080#post_22222572

I wonder if this means I need to lose my legacy feed then convert a digital TVGOS version "?" and I can the add the cap to my LST-3410a so I can use its guide.

I'll pass.
post #25026 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

Do not run the G* test. What is your ClockSet channel? It's on the 753 diag Clocks2. You can keep the [3] for several days after loss of data unless you reset the guide.

Don't know what the ClockSet channel is, I'll take a look tonight. Also, spoke with Rovi's "Director of Support and Eng'r" today who was all too familiar with our DHG struggles and blames it not on Comcast but on the inability of the DHG to slice digital data. He's going to have his Sr. Engr call me tomorrow to try and explain it better and I'll perhaps conference in the Sr. Comcast folk to see if there's any possibilty of a workaround.

After that also talked to a level 2 tech support rep at Sony who in turn talked to the engineer who is in her group responsible for all TV Guide, TV's and Blu Ray issues) and would liason with the actual engineers, i.e., to keep harping about the need for new software that works with Rovi, and she actually listened and is working to elevate. Having provided me her direct email contact info (at least now I've got a tech who's taken ownership) and told me she would follow thru on this, I'm at least encouraged someone is beginning to listen...not saying it will produce the desired result, but it's a start.
post #25027 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

Don't know what the ClockSet channel is, I'll take a look tonight. Also, spoke with Rovi's "Director of Support and Eng'r" today who was all too familiar with our DHG struggles and blames it not on Comcast but on the inability of the DHG to slice digital data. He's going to have his Sr. Engr call me tomorrow to try and explain it better and I'll perhaps conference in the Sr. Comcast folk to see if there's any possibilty of a workaround.
After that also talked to a level 2 tech support rep at Sony who in turn talked to the engineer who is in her group responsible for all TV Guide, TV's and Blu Ray issues) and would liason with the actual engineers, i.e., to keep harping about the need for new software that works with Rovi, and she actually listened and is working to elevate. Having provided me her direct email contact info (at least now I've got a tech who's taken ownership) and told me she would follow thru on this, I'm at least encouraged someone is beginning to listen...not saying it will produce the desired result, but it's a start.

Please read the posts by mabuttra (Mark) concerning the ability of the DHG to receive digital TVGOS in the quick spurts the data is now being sent. This is NOT a legacy analog problem.

You get sainthood if you can get a firmware update to the DHG that allows a manual clock set and record without a grid. Others will certainly offer bribes if you can make the DHG work better in an all digital environment. Best of luck.

But I'll save you a seat in the next shuttle launch anyhow.
post #25028 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

... also talked to a level 2 tech support rep at Sony who in turn talked to the engineer who is in her group responsible for all TV Guide, TV's and Blu Ray issues) and would liason with the actual engineers, i.e., to keep harping about the need for new software that works with Rovi, and she actually listened and is working to elevate. Having provided me her direct email contact info (at least now I've got a tech who's taken ownership) and told me she would follow thru on this, I'm at least encouraged someone is beginning to listen....

225
post #25029 of 29213
LOL -- all I want for Xmas are my DHGs to work again! I will keep update status as I learn more...
post #25030 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

Please read the posts by mabuttra (Mark) concerning the ability of the DHG to receive digital TVGOS in the quick spurts the data is now being sent. This is NOT a legacy analog problem.
You get sainthood if you can get a firmware update to the DHG that allows a manual clock set and record without a grid. Others will certainly offer bribes if you can make the DHG work better in an all digital environment. Best of luck.
But I'll save you a seat in the next shuttle launch anyhow.

Hadn't asked about a manual clock set and record without a grid but certainly can throw that on the laundry list of user needs! Am I reading your reply to state that "ability of the DHG to receive digital TVGOS in the quick spurts the data is now being sent. This is NOT a legacy analog problem" as saying what I was told by the Rovi guy is absolutely incorrect, i.e., the DHG can and does splice digital data? If that's the case what can I tell Rovi if the problem really rests with their transmission (vs. Comcast or Sony)?

p.s. I'm as far removed from understanding what that really means as one can be. I Googled "splicing digital data" and found a treatise on cable transmissions but once I started reading about the different types of modulation, amplitude, etc. I felt my head starting to explode so I slowly backed away from the keyboard after exiting the page....
post #25031 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

Hadn't asked about a manual clock set and record without a grid but certainly can throw that on the laundry list of user needs! Am I reading your reply to state that "ability of the DHG to receive digital TVGOS in the quick spurts the data is now being sent. This is NOT a legacy analog problem" as saying what I was told by the Rovi guy is absolutely incorrect, i.e., the DHG can and does splice digital data? If that's the case what can I tell Rovi if the problem really rests with their transmission (vs. Comcast or Sony)?
p.s. I'm as far removed from understanding what that really means as one can be. I Googled "splicing digital data" and found a treatise on cable transmissions but once I started reading about the different types of modulation, amplitude, etc. I felt my head starting to explode so I slowly backed away from the keyboard after exiting the page....

No, legacy data is analog packets inserted on any analog channel and has nothing to do with digital transmission of data by an OTA or cable channel.

That thing with a clock set and manual recording has nothing to do with digital slicing. You will learn much more from this thread than from Google. Sorry I got you off track.
post #25032 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

No, legacy data is analog packets inserted on any analog channel and has nothing to do with digital transmission of data by an OTA or cable channel.
That thing with a clock set and manual recording has nothing to do with digital slicing. You will learn much more from this thread than from Google. Sorry I got you off track.

No worries, and appreciate the lessons; I've read many of the posts from you, WS... and Marc and pick up more nuggets each time. Understood the clock set and manual recording was unrelated. I was only wondering if statement that update by Sony does enable digital splicing is correct or incorrect (and am still unsure, although I think what your reply indicated was the sony patch only allowed for deciphering analog packets sent via OTA or extracted as part of, but not encoded in, a digital cable transmission (if that makes sense)
post #25033 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

No worries, and appreciate the lessons; I've read many of the posts from you, WS... and Marc and pick up more nuggets each time. Understood the clock set and manual recording was unrelated. I was only wondering if statement that update by Sony does enable digital splicing is correct or incorrect (and am still unsure, although I think what your reply indicated was the sony patch only allowed for deciphering analog packets sent via OTA or extracted as part of, but not encoded in, a digital cable transmission (if that makes sense)

I hope someone will answer your question. I'm probably already in trouble.

Analog packets are only sent via cable analog channels. I'll stop now.
post #25034 of 29213
My understanding (but Mark could explain better)...

The V1.21 firmware allows the DHG to process TVGOS data from a digital broadcast WITHOUT having to run the G*Test first (to enable the digital processing). HOWEVER, during the "burst" periods (hh:15 and hh:45) the Sony currently doesn't process the digital data stream fast enough, and often (more often than not) loses part of the data. Some of the data that resides in certain parts of the stream get missed REPEATEDLY, burst after burst. Then once in a blue moon that particular data packet will happen to get processed (by the DHG) and Voila!!! the user gets the precious Grid.


The solution would be to cause the Sony to process the "burst" data faster (by more efficient programming), or to somehow buffer the burst data so that the Sony can process it at its leisure . . . smile.gif
post #25035 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

No worries, and appreciate the lessons; I've read many of the posts from you, WS... and Marc and pick up more nuggets each time. Understood the clock set and manual recording was unrelated. I was only wondering if statement that update by Sony does enable digital splicing is correct or incorrect (and am still unsure, although I think what your reply indicated was the sony patch only allowed for deciphering analog packets sent via OTA or extracted as part of, but not encoded in, a digital cable transmission (if that makes sense)
Just to clarify here... the word is "slicing", not "splicing". Slicing is related to the extraction of the TVGOS packets (identfied by specific PIDS) from the others in the digital stream (video and audio for the various subchannels, PSIP, etc.) and then further decomposing that into specific type TVGOS packets that contribute data updates to various parts of the TVGOS system (e.g.: time zone, grid, program information, etc.). Splicing deals with connecting two previously disconnected pieces of a medium (e.g.: magnetic tape, movie film, copper wire, fiber optic cable, etc.) together so that they are usable as one continuous piece. So slicing and splicing are almost the opposite of each other in the context we are discussing. The splicing occurs at the TV station or network, the slicing occurs in the receiver.
post #25036 of 29213
Frank,
I don't want to jinx myself, but I'm still getting data from Comcast KYW Philadelphia. I believe you're in the same area.
post #25037 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkstur View Post

Frank,
I don't want to jinx myself, but I'm still getting data from Comcast KYW Philadelphia. I believe you're in the same area.

Hopefully you're ok! I wonder, however, if Comcast has made the same switch to Digital QAM in your specific switching station, i.e., that I unfortunately experienced Mem Day w/e in Central NJ; if you want to know what may (or may not) be forthcoming give me your zip code and I'll check with my Comcast Engineering contact...
post #25038 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

My understanding (but Mark could explain better)...
The V1.21 firmware allows the DHG to process TVGOS data from a digital broadcast WITHOUT having to run the G*Test first (to enable the digital processing). HOWEVER, during the "burst" periods (hh:15 and hh:45) the Sony currently doesn't process the digital data stream fast enough, and often (more often than not) loses part of the data. Some of the data that resides in certain parts of the stream get missed REPEATEDLY, burst after burst. Then once in a blue moon that particular data packet will happen to get processed (by the DHG) and Voila!!! the user gets the precious Grid.

The solution would be to cause the Sony to process the "burst" data faster (by more efficient programming), or to somehow buffer the burst data so that the Sony can process it at its leisure . . . smile.gif

Very helpful! I'll share this with Sony to see how they react...if anyone has any similar technical thoughts for their engineers, let me know...thx!
post #25039 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

My understanding (but Mark could explain better)...
The V1.21 firmware allows the DHG to process TVGOS data from a digital broadcast WITHOUT having to run the G*Test first (to enable the digital processing). HOWEVER, during the "burst" periods (hh:15 and hh:45) the Sony currently doesn't process the digital data stream fast enough, and often (more often than not) loses part of the data. Some of the data that resides in certain parts of the stream get missed REPEATEDLY, burst after burst. Then once in a blue moon that particular data packet will happen to get processed (by the DHG) and Voila!!! the user gets the precious Grid.

The solution would be to cause the Sony to process the "burst" data faster (by more efficient programming), or to somehow buffer the burst data so that the Sony can process it at its leisure . . . smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

Very helpful! I'll share this with Sony to see how they react...if anyone has any similar technical thoughts for their engineers, let me know...thx!

Also, does this mean you're certain that issue is not a circuitry/hardware limitation, i.e., that better software is all the DHG really needs? Thx again!
post #25040 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkstur View Post

Frank,
I don't want to jinx myself, but I'm still getting data from Comcast KYW Philadelphia. I believe you're in the same area.
I have no doubt that Comcast is inserting TVGOS onto its analog signal, as they have their own inserter. It is KYW's digital OTA signal that is missing the TVG1 packets (still this morning.) I have contacted Rovi, but they take forever to respond.
post #25041 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

Also, does this mean you're certain that issue is not a circuitry/hardware limitation, i.e., that better software is all the DHG really needs? Thx again!

If the software is already optimized to process the "burst" digital data as fast as it possibly can, or if the burst cannot be buffered for delayed processing, then faster hardware would in fact be the only solution. But I betcha they could process it faster if they really tried . . .
post #25042 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

Also, does this mean you're certain that issue is not a circuitry/hardware limitation, i.e., that better software is all the DHG really needs? Thx again!

WS65711's explanation was very good. It can't be a hardware issue since the same hardware has to "slice" all the audio, and video data, and that data comes in Mbytes/ second. The TVGOS data comes in kbytes/second. I guess it is possible that there is separate hardware to slice the TVGOS data that is buggy, but I don't think that is the case. There is no doubt though that the Sony can slice the data or we would never get any data. I have been able to get a grid in < 12 hours, but it has also taken 3 or 4 days to get a grid. Some have reported it taking weeks to get a grid.

Mark
post #25043 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

WS65711's explanation was very good. It can't be a hardware issue since the same hardware has to "slice" all the audio, and video data, and that data comes in Mbytes/ second. The TVGOS data comes in kbytes/second. I guess it is possible that there is separate hardware to slice the TVGOS data that is buggy, but I don't think that is the case. There is no doubt though that the Sony can slice the data or we would never get any data. I have been able to get a grid in < 12 hours, but it has also taken 3 or 4 days to get a grid. Some have reported it taking weeks to get a grid.
Mark

It all has to start with receiving "something" via Comcast/Rovi, and from what I've read I assume that first thing you can see on a DHG is that the clock on the 753 menu indicates a [3] next to it (rather than a [2]). Is this correct? Without any changes to my DHG, i.e., it is showing 1/1/04 12:00[2] (which then moves forward thru day from the time of reset), my concern is that I'm not even receiving data.
post #25044 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

It all has to start with receiving "something" via Comcast/Rovi, and from what I've read I assume that first thing you can see on a DHG is that the clock on the 753 menu indicates a [3] next to it (rather than a [2]). Is this correct? Without any changes to my DHG, i.e., it is showing 1/1/04 12:00[2] (which then moves forward thru day from the time of reset), my concern is that I'm not even receiving data.

p.s. and by having done reset to factory default on 2 of my 3 units, I'm in the place Joe Kustra's at, i.e., no clock, just ---- on front display, and incapable of recording; only thing those 2 units are now good for is rewinding up to 90 minutes of TV
post #25045 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

p.s. and by having done reset to factory default on 2 of my 3 units, I'm in the place Joe Kustra's at, i.e., no clock, just ---- on front display, and incapable of recording; only thing those 2 units are now good for is rewinding up to 90 minutes of TV
At what point does your attempt to record fail and what is the error? The front panel time should appear even though it is wrong. It may take a little while.
post #25046 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

At what point does your attempt to record fail and what is the error? The front panel time should appear even though it is wrong. It may take a little while.

Failure occurs when I hit "schedule recording", error is that channel is not on the list, although when I look at channel editor it seems to be in there and "on"
post #25047 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

Failure occurs when I hit "schedule recording", error is that channel is not on the list, although when I look at channel editor it seems to be in there and "on"

p.s. front panel time has not come back on either of the two units, and with the first its been well over a week since the reset, although it's currently being tested by my Comcast tech at his home since he gets a Philly signal whereas I only get NY (and as you may recall the internal clock changed to GMT[3] at his home indicating (to me) that at least some TVGOS data is being received there)
post #25048 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

At what point does your attempt to record fail and what is the error? The front panel time should appear even though it is wrong. It may take a little while.

Also, to your ? re: the "ClockSet channel" on 753 menu from y'day, that just shows 0-0-0
post #25049 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

It all has to start with receiving "something" via Comcast/Rovi, and from what I've read I assume that first thing you can see on a DHG is that the clock on the 753 menu indicates a [3] next to it (rather than a [2]). Is this correct? Without any changes to my DHG, i.e., it is showing 1/1/04 12:00[2] (which then moves forward thru day from the time of reset), my concern is that I'm not even receiving data.

Yes. You have multiple problems. First, you're apparently not getting any data from your CableCo. The blame for that goes either to your CableCo, or Rovi, or both. If there happens to be no TVGOS data in your OTA signal, then your CableCo is innocent and the blame shifts to your OTA station or Rovi.

The next problem is with the Sony. If it has a source of digital TVGOS data it WILL get a Grid eventually. The problem is that it could take days or weeks (or more), for the reasons discussed previously (dropping data packets during the "burst").

How far are you from an OTA CBS station. If you could hook up an antenna you may possibly get TVGOS data, even if you don't get a watchable signal.
Edited by WS65711 - 7/17/12 at 7:49am
post #25050 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestLeeD View Post

Failure occurs when I hit "schedule recording", error is that channel is not on the list, although when I look at channel editor it seems to be in there and "on"

I'm not saying this is the fix but:

None of the channels I record are on my grid. If I load .21 firmware I can no longer record them (pink screen) when I attempt a manual recording. I tune to the channel I want to record, hold down the red record button for a few seconds until the manual recording menu displays. I then change the parameters (except the channel) and schedule the recording. This does not work with .21 firmware. I always load the .13 firmware or I get switched to "Auto HDMI" a lot. You have two messed up units. Trying this on one DHG can't hurt. I have done it dozens of times. The .13 firmware is on SpiffSpace. It's only three files and the .21 firmware is four files. Either one must be in a "Sony" folder on the USB drive. The zip file is only 18Mb, so I could email it to you.

There will still be adjustments needed for date and time, and there is a spreadsheet for that. You have to decide if it's worth the effort.
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