Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 848

email sent. everyone here, please do so as well.

Ugh......... I own two DHG-250 units and am sick to my stomach about losing them!
I contacted Sony last night and received the same canned response that some of you guys have referenced:

"
Thank you for contacting Sony Support.

I understand that you wish to get information regarding the TV Guide service message being displayed on the Digital Video Recorder. The TV Guide On Screen system is a 3rd party service currently provided by the Rovi Corporation and is available on some Sony TVs and digital recording products.

Currently the data for the Guide is sent by way of over-the-air and cable broadcast transmissions, as well as by way of Internet connection to compatible devices.

Starting on November 1, 2012 the Rovi Corporation will start discontinuing the broadcast transmission of data from all US locations and will complete that process by April, 2013. Once the broadcast transmission ends in a location, the TV Guide On Screen service will only be available to devices that are Internet update capable, and are connected to an active network connection.

NOTES: There is no technical fix to re-enable the TV Guide On Screen service for the products that are not capable of receiving updates via the Internet, the change is as a result of the decision of the Rovi Corporation to discontinue the over-the-air and cable broadcast transmission and not a service issue with the product itself.

We understand your concern regarding the DHGHDD250 not being useful, once the TV Guide broadcast is stopped. Unfortunately, at present, we do not have a solution for making the DHGHDD250 unit to work without the TV Guide.

I'll forward your concern to the engineering team, so that they can check if a work around solution is possible to get this unit to work. When many people having the DHGHDD250 unit submit their request to Sony, they might start working on a resolution for this. Since this has been a recent development, Sony has had very less time for looking into the issue. We'll post the solution on the Sony website, when a solution is found.

Thank you for understanding.


If you would like to be the first to know about our latest products and receive exclusive offers, please sign up for our newsletter:
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SYNewsletterOptInView?storeId=10151&catalogId=10551&langId=-1&XID=M:cs_email

The Sony Email Response Team
C4PW
Tiffany
"

I'm interested in what "Speedlaw" and others in the legal field might be able to dig up in terms of recourse for some Sony support. I'm resigned to the fact that we won't be getting the TVGOS, but it seems reasonable to expect a firmware update to allow for manual clock-setting, doesn't it? WIthout that, I've got a pair of $800 drink coasters.

If I can make a suggestion, Sony has nothing to do with this problem It is Rovi that is ending the broadcast data so it will be better to call and email Corporate Rovi about this. Maybe if enough people complain they will realize that there is a lot of people that still use this service yet. Here is the contact information:

http://www.rovicorp.com/company/contact/other/consumer-electronics.htm
Heres a corporate phone number at their main headquaters: 1 (408) 562-8400
CE_customer_support@rovicorp.com
800-386-7380

If you are looking for an alternative then the only solution will be Tivo. I have to remind those that are thinking of using Windows Media Center that Microsoft no longer supports it. You can still use it and if you get Windows 8 you have to pay extra for it. If enough of people do not buy WMC then they will discontinue it as they have to pay a large fee to Tribune Media Services to provide the guide data. Going this route will most likely end you in the postion you are currently in with TVGOS.
With the Tivo you either pay the monthly fee for the guide or you can pay the one time fee for the guide. This way Tribune Media Services gets monthly revenue to maintain the guide service.

After reading Rovis financial statements I doubt that they are going to stay in the consumer guide business as they are losing a lot of money on it. The CE manufactures are in big trouble themselves so this does not look good for those looking for free guide services going forward. Cutting the broadcast side of their guide service is being done to quickly cut their losses but I don't know what they will cut next if the continue to bleed cash. I have to note that they are not shutting down the European or Japanese guide services just here in North America. I guess the 20 to 30 years of outsourcing has finally come home to roost in the USA.
Edited by Jed1 - 11/8/12 at 9:16am

Remember when we lost data on 10/27? I just got my response from Rovi support asking if my data is ok. I answered back: "Data has been restored. In fact, I now have a new ad that states all TVGOS service will be discontinued by April 2013."

This is completely false - MS still supports WMC as it a component of Windows 7 and 8 and support for those systems will continue until 2020 and beyond. They have stopped new dev on WMC but they still support (and provide patches and guide data) for it as part of Windows.

For people saying they want to start a class action against Sony, get real - this is a 7+ year old product and Sony is under no obligation to provide guide data or any other updates for however long you feel like they should. You didn't pay separately for guide service and you can't seriously expect them to provide an update for an ancient product in the CE world. They're going to be bricked, get over it.

Start looking into Tivo or WMC as an alternative, stay far away from the Channel Master and DTVPal products IMO. Used Tivo HDs w/lifetime subs can be had as cheaply as $250 or so on fleabay, WMC PCs can be built for not much more than that ($3-400). And you won't pay extra for guide data on either.

Oh, that does look interesting. I thought, incorrectly, that all manufacturers abandoned disk drive based DVR's.

Where does its EPG data come from? Would I just be trading being at the mercy of Rovi to being at the mercy of Channel Master? One comment specifically states "..., you can buy a programming guide for $50 a year ($4.50 a month) from Channel Master, which is delivered through the onboard wifi."

Can it record from QAM cable channels? I ask because while its specs mention clear QAM support with its tuner, its descriptions keep focusing on only recording " free over-the-air HD broadcasts".

I feel that it is in a way, Sony's fault.

We were basically riding on the coat tails of newer products from Sony that still used broadcast TVGOS. As long as Sony kept using such in new products, Sony kept paying Rovi. I don't know of any new (2011, 2012, 2013) products from Sony that have this feature. So, there is no longer any money flowing from Sony to Rovi. I bet the ad revenue for TVGOS isn't what it use to be either. And the reality is, Rovi isn't a charity.

If Rovi said "pay us $50 per year and we'll continue to supply you with data", I would sign up.

Microsoft has done nothing with WMC since Vista. I do not think I have seen an update patch for WMC since I got Windows 7 over two years ago. In fact the last patch was to make digital cable work with WMC in Vista which I could not get because I built my computer. I had to upgrade to Windows 7 to be able to use WMC with digital cable. WMC is not part of Windows 8 and you have to pay extra to add it on. I went to use the internet tv part of WMC in early September and got a notice that Microsoft was eliminating that feature by the 20th of September. I figure there will not be enough demand for WMC in Windows 8 and Microsoft will then discontinue it by no longer paying for the guide service. It is possible at that time the user may have he option to pay monthly fee to continue using the guide service. I do not see these free things continueing on much longer so I advise that you do not waste the time on it, unless you do not mind paying a monthly fee.

The CM-7400 has no cable card support, only clear QAM and clear QAM is on life-support with the new FCC ruling that allows cable co's to eliminate it. The unit has an optional subscription guide service for $50/yr delivered over the Internet. Without the guide subscription you are limited to using PSIP data. PSIP data is limited and not automatically refreshed by the DVR in stand-by -- the user must manually sweep through the channels to refresh the PSIP data. The unit was really designed to operate with the subscription guide service. And did I mention it runs as hot as a toaster.

This DVR is for people who are primarily OTA and are willing to program it VCR style because they absolutely refuse to pay for guide service under any conditions. For people who want a DVR with guide service: given the purchase cost of the CM-7400 and the never-ending cost of its yearly guide subscription and the lack of cable card support, purchasing a CM-7400 vs. a TiVo Premier with lifetime guide is financially silly. Only die-hard TiVo haters think it is a good deal.
Did I mention it runs as hot as a toaster.

Please see:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1360146/channel-master-tv-cm-7400-hd-dvr-ota-clear-qam-internet-content/0_50

Also, no cable card support makes the unit not so hot. [joke]

I sent mine back because it would not work with my cable feed.

The last I heard from them was 3 weeks ago when they updated my channel line up and I told them SECV wa adding the Additional HD channels and they told me to send their channel line up in as soon as it was availalbe so they can update their database. I will try it in about three weeks to see of they do update the database that if we have the guide service available here.

Would it be bad to mention the Magnavox 533/535/537 series? Not HD but it's hard to tell. And it has a DVD. Search "Magnavox" on walmart.com or look at the thread on this forum. But like I said, it's not HD and it has no guide.

This is the warning in my Pioneer Kuro manual about TVGOS. I have Version 9 and a guide build date of 2007.

About the TV Guide On Screen™ system
The TV Guide On Screen™ system is a free, interactive on-screen
television program guide. The system offers program listings,
searching by keyword, reminders and more. The TV Guide On
Screen™ system is a convenient way to find out what’s on right
now or during the coming week, by channel or by genre. It also
allows you to automatically set your viewing and recording
selections quickly and easily.
Before you can start using the TV Guide On Screen™ system,
you’ll need to set it up.
Legal Notices
In the United States, TV Guide and other related marks are registered marks
of Gemstar-TV Guide International, Inc. and/or one of its affiliates. In Canada,
TV Guide is a registered mark of Transcontinental, Inc. and is used under
license by Gemstar-TV Guide International, Inc.
Note
• The TV Guide On Screen™ interactive program guide provides
listings for cable-ready and digital cable services as well as
over-the-air broadcast. It does not provide listings for satellite
services.
• Depending on the current settings and selected items, the
order of the setup screens may differ from the one given in this
manual. Follow the instructions shown on the screens.
• TV Guide may not be available in all areas. As content providers
move to digital programming and broadcasting, TV Guide data
may be unavailable or become unavailable.

Sony does not pay a continueing fee to Rovi for TVGOS they pay a one time fee for each version they decide to use. In the case of the DHG it uses version 8 and was has a guide build date of 2004. That is how long ago Sony paid for the license for the DHG. Rovi no longers makes any guides that use TVGOS as they created a new guide called Total Guide and it does not use inserters for its data. The Total Guide uses an internet connection only. This guide is not selling well as the CE manufacturers are really hurting becasue of a lack of sales.
Edited by Jed1 - 11/8/12 at 10:35am

Has anyone contacted the usual suspects such as Engadget, Gizmodo and the like about this? Perhaps it could at least bring some media attention about this but I am not holding my breath for a solution.

I would like to respond to that if I may. I have several DHG units, only two on line right now. One has 35k+ hours on its HDD, the other 51k+. Nothing is wrong with them, but nothing lasts forever. Only Sony can change drives. The wiring inside is very dried out. I have replaced two fans and cleaned the other two. The fan is no longer made, but I was going to buy a unit on eBay for parts. That was then, not now. The end of their lifespan is not that far away and I am really impressed they have worked so well. I have bought two new remotes over the years.

It's hard to say what the natural life of the DHG is really and we have, as was noted, NO schematics or reference manual. That, and its short selling period, makes me wonder what we don't know about Sony, Rovi and Tivo's lawyers.

Joe,
Thanks for the Sony eSupport link for this issue. I put in my two cents. Hope everyone else will do the same. This actually isn't just a Sony problem as there were serveral other TV manufactures that also made use of the TVGOS system. The lack of a TVGOS signal just doesn't brick the other equipment like it does the DHG-HDD250/500. I see class action being tossed around, but doubt that will lead to much in any reasonable amount of time. Not sure it will help, but I'm thinking a complaint to the FCC might stir up some action. They have been helpful in the past on other items.

I got the same feeling from Rovi's 10Q also. But well stated. What will the STB people start using? When will PSIP be declared an "option"? It's scary out there.

Where are the hardware/software hackers to bust the boot ROM and allow us to install MythTV on this thing? Oh, and get the missing Ethernet port components, too.

A couple 2T drives and this thing would be sweet

PLEASE CALL ROVI. IF ENOUGH PEOPLE RING THEIR PHONES AND FLOOD THEIR EMAIL BOXES WITH ANGRY EMAILS THEN THEY MIGHT RECONSIDER. CALLING THE CE MANUFACTURER IS NOT GOING TO STOP ROVI FROM DOING THIS AS THEIR ARE NOT REPORTING YOUR ANGER BACK TO ROVI. TIE UP ROVI'S PHONES.

Jay @ Rovi has been very understanding. This is not his call, but upper management. KILL THEIR STOCK INSTEAD!!

Please blast gizmodo

Yes Jay is understanding but he is low on the totum pole and is not located at corporate headquarters. Let corporate deal with the anger.
http://www.rovicorp.com/company/contact/other/consumer-electronics.htm
Heres a corporate phone number at their main headquaters: 1 (408) 562-8400

If you stop using April 31.

My nice letter received from Emily @ Sony

I really don't understand what the fuss is all about . . .
Anything after December 21st, 2012 it won't make a difference anyways..

Mayan calender?

I was waiting for that one.

I think ePvision is behind all of this.

I just got the same Sony Support reply from Emily.

possibly we will finally get the Secret Squirrel command for "show clock set".

I also sent a polite email to Rovi reminding them that I relied upon the good faith of "TV Guide", a name I grew up with, in purchasing the unit. (I really did !). I asked them if they could patch their software or give out a patch for a clockset.

We shall see- I would think that Rovi, as successor to TV Guide, is under contract to Sony, but for how long ? This we don't know, but I would think that the licensing agreements and obligations have to be there somewhere. is there a sunset ? Sony quietly supports the HDD if they have parts, even though it is now off the website. (darn ! we built them too well !)
Edited by speedlaw - 11/8/12 at 12:09pm

A few months ago, SECTV in the LV lost its TVGOS data. SECTV and Rovi spent nearly two months replacing hardware (their "inserter") and fiddling with configuration settings to get it to work again (with me constantly prodding them along). They finally succeeded and my TVGOS resumed. I find it interesting that Rovi put that much effort in, to just turn around and now turn it all off.

Have fun with these higher rungs.

Chris.D.Taylor@rovicorp.com (408) 562-3077
Scott.hankins@rovicorp.com