Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 849

Same email from Emily too. From Rovi on a listing loss:
"
Dear Joe,

Good to hear your listings are back. We regret to inform you that it is true that the broadcast data will only be supported through April 2013.

Sincerely,

CE Technical Support
Rovi
"

My point was that after that, Sony did pay for another license (one time fee) for the version used by, for example, my XBR TV. So, there was money flowing from Sony to Rovi after the DHG. And in terms of the data, DHG and my XBR use the same.

The last time I used my main deck was Saturday. There was nothing on the 'ad' screen regarding this.
I found out about all of this about an hour ago through a e-mail message from Amazon (no less) to a review on the CM 7000.

Here is what I found out shortly after the bomb was dropped. A 2nd bomb:

My local PBS affiliate has already pulled the equipment and sent it back to Rovi last Friday.
They received a e-mail from PBS telling affiliates to pull Rovi's equipment ASAP and send it to them. The email from PBS was dated October 31st.

The only solution is contacting Sony. I feel it is a utter waste of time to bother with Rovi. This action is exactly what a typical corporation does just before they declare bankruptcy by closing the doors without notice to employees and customers. It has happened time in and time out.
Sony's quick solution would be to enable a Guide with blank time slots, replacing the current "No Listings" so one could do a VCR style manual recording. As far as any actual 'Guide', I can't see that happening due to the age of this and the outdated platform. And, of course the limited ownership.

Have said that, calling, but better off writing to Sony is the only hope. A written letter carries far more weight that a silly e-mail that usually gets ignored or just deleted.

That Sony forum already had a thread started on the subject here' at the bottom of the main page;
https://forum.sel.sony.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=15646&p=42468#p42468
Edited by videobruce - 11/8/12 at 12:43pm

Looking through the Sony eSupport website which I did call and had a case opened with a file number. It got bumped up to a 2nd tier. I did state that this has already happened, no rumor or speculation;
1-239-768-7547
http://esupport.sony.com/US/p/contact-relation.pl?

Their corporate information;
https://news.sel.sony.com/en/corporate_information/executive_bios?CSRT=7317315661636450239
http://www.sony.com/SCA/outline/electronics.shtml

It seems President Ryoji Chubachi, COO Phil Molyneux and Executive VP Michael Fasulo would be the choices to whom letters should go.

Problem is where to write? One says NY, the other California;
http://www.sony.com/faq.shtml#link12
http://ecorporateoffices.com/SonyElectronicsInc-2316

.
Edited by videobruce - 11/8/12 at 1:17pm

I have been told by two different sources this year that Sony does not do any in house work on their consumer electronics. Everything, including design and engineering, has be outsourced to contractors. One of the biggest contractors they use is Foxconn. I wonder what engineering team will be looking into this as they will have to arrange a contract to do this work. Sony is basically just like Vizio. The only consumer electronics manufacturer that does all their engineering, design , and manufacturing is Panasonic, but they are in financial trouble themselves.

I don't think Rovi is going bankrupt because they make a lot of money from the cable companies that use their IPG guides. TVGOS is a throw back before the internet as it was the first viable way to get guide data to the consumers home. I had the first version of TVGOS embedded in an RCA TV that I bought in 1997. There was no guides in cable boxes at that time and I thought it was real cool to have because the only reliable source for guide data was the TVGuide magazine. The cable companies used to report their lineup changes to the magazine and then they would update the database using that information. The lineup problems starting in the early part of the last decade when cable boxes started to have guides and the TVGuide magazine lost a lot of subscribers so everything fell behind. Also Gemstar started having financial difficulties at the same time and then they put themselves up for sale. This caused the change over to digital to fall way behind and wasn't really addressed until Rovi bought Gemstar. The original host stations was the ABC networks. That changed to PBS maybe around 2001. The original version of TVGOS in that RCA is still working yet. I apologize for the trip down memory lane but as you can see I have been at this from the beginning and I admit I am going to have a hard time seeing it end.

The key seems to be getting the available guide information from the internet to the non-internet capable HDD units. How would one go about doing this, assuming it is possible? I note references to WMC, but am not really clear about how to implement that---assume it means having a small computer dedicated to that task. Does anyone have details as to how to implement, or whether it would really work?

I worried that my trusty DHG might bite the dust and put together a very small form factor HTPC using a mini-itx board and the HD-HomeRun dual OTA tuner that connects to my router so any PC in the house can access TV. Debated on using MythTV (Linux), Win7 or Win8 with it's metro interface. XBMC maybe an option in the future as well. None of these options require paying for a guide. If you get Win8 Pro before the end of January you can get them to e-mail you a free product key for WMC to save the $10. Apparently it's only a $10 add-on for Win8 basic.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/26/microsoft-free-media-center-upgrade-for-windows-8-pro/

I went with a Win8 upgrade as I got a deal, but it doesn't load straight to WMC; otherwise works fine after I got some driver issues resolved. It is much faster to boot then Win7, especially on a regular hard drive. I happened to have an older unused WMC remote and IR receiver that now have a purpose in life.

For the long term owners in this thread and have a handle on corportae communication, take a look at this draft of my letter to Sony's president. Yes, no, maybe? Additions?;

That is a major surprise. I would never think that of a corporation as huge as Sony.

Maybe they use ePVision.

BTW, I just mentioned the bankruptcy part only as an example, not suggestion Rovi is at that stage. It's just very poor business to pull the plug, then announce it. It's also suspicious as I'm sure they didn't just decide this last Wednesday.

Nice Bruce! Mention how the DTV transition does not relate to this and request that you (we) want them to open source [enough of] the firmware so that we, the users, may develop a MythTV patch.

Email I sent to the EFF

With their (Rovi) stock price they are worth between 1 and 2 billion dollars. Maybe Google or Microsoft will buy them. Sony is only just over 10 billion. Not long ago Rovi was bigger than Sony.
Edited by JoeKustra - 11/8/12 at 2:34pm

How does the guide update for the tivo premier if only connected for OTA, is that through the internet?

Yes. They offer an extra cost dialup ability last time I looked.

Right. The older models (TiVo HD and earlier) also had the option to use a phone line, and it'd dial out late at night to get the latest guide data, but I'd imagine most people just use direct Internet connectivity these days.

Thanks. just making sure it will work without cable or satellite. Just OTA and a internet connection either ethernet or wifi.

Wireless adapter is extra. You can check eBay. g/n/a

Yes, everything is over the Internet. The TiVo connects home once a day to download guide information -- the guide is 14 days. But it is always touching base with home to check for any events it needs to attend to such as a schedule change or if you go to the TiVo website and schedule a recording remotely. When I schedule a recording from work, it is usually in my TiVo's queue within the hour. I am OTA, also.

Sony has been making the most money from their media division. I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled the plug on their electronics divisions as this is where they are taking some big losses but not as bad as Sharp. If Sharp doesn't find help soon they may disappear. Maybe they should get into the drywall busines with ePVision.
If things don't start looking up for Rovi in the coming year or so I can see them maybe selling some assets or merging with somebody or just disappearing altogether.
I am signing up for an account with Tivo. Maybe they will have some deals for christmas. Looking at the XL4 Premier. Yea I know I am a glutton for punishment. My luck Tivo or Tribune Media Services will go out of business after I buy one.

I think you misunderstood. WMC (Windows Media Center) can perform the functions of a DVR. The intent is that you throw the Sony in the trash, and replace it with a Media Center PC. There is no device to convert the internet data to anything the Sony can use (despite the wild speculation about it).

Mark

And while it might *theoretically* be possible, if you figured out the data structure, and had an appropriate guide source, and so on, to (a) insert a faux ATSC channel, or (b) insert packets into one live, the cost of the hardware to *do* the job would be simply throwing good money after bad. A lot of things are possible. Doesn't make them necessarily good ideas.

Edit: And doing a faux NTSC channel with VBI would be the same story.

Faux NTSC VBI insertion much easier

Great letter; you can certainly add me to the signature list if desired.

LOL
And they won't give me schematics, either.

 

I thought it was TiVo, with you.

You know that they could never publicize their source code because it would allow defeating the encryption that prevents unauthorized copying of copyrighted material.

I beg to differ. Sony IS obligated to make sure my DHG works, in so far as it needs an outside signal. When they put this into the stream of commerce, the TVGOS was part of the deal. Sony may have paid Gemstar, but when Rovi bought Gemstar, they took on the contractual obligations to Sony as well. While no one is showing US the contracts between Sony and Gemstar, if I were Sony, I'd have the legal department check for breach of contract....Rovi's actions are putting Sony at risk, depending on the contract terms.

I have a Tivo as well, and the tivo will account for schedule shifts, has internet connectivity for netflix, youtube, etc, BUT for OTA, there's zero difference between the two.

The fact is we paid for lifetime listings, and if a subsequent buyer of the listing company does not like the deal, that's not our problem.

I just want a clock-set. How tough is this ? In the alternate, how about an inserter which only sends out clock time ?

IMHO, it would be easiest to start with a design like that of the DTV Pal, and adapt it to get its program guide data from the internet.

I can see why they have to start pinching pennies. Sounds as a win loose situation. TWC would have to find another source of data for their Navigator disaster DVR's. That hasn't changed, but they are not the problem here. Again, its their business model I have the problem with.