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Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 851

post #25501 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

How do we get our data? Or are there two types of inserters?

Our TVGOS data comes from an old analog inserter that used to be in the broadcast stations before the digital transition. The broadcast station was the middle man. The middleman for TVGOS now is our cable company SECV. If Rovi is not removing the hardware on their end then they can theortically keep these old analog inserters going if their goal is to just eliminate the broadcast stations.
SECV gets their I Guide data sent to them by a internet connection which in turn is sent to the cable boxes in a portion of their frequency spectrum. It is not modulated into a TV channel. They use completely different equipment that is not compatible with the TVGOS inserters or the guides that need inserters.
post #25502 of 29213
This might seem simplistic but will it still be useful as an OTA digital tuner?

I have mine connected to a projector so it’s serving not only as a recorder but also as an OTA tuner. If I go the HTPC route I’d like to still use the Sony as a tuner instead of firing up a pc every time I want to watch TV.

I’m assuming that as long as there is a grid, even with no listings and a wrong clock, that I will still be able to tune to a specific channel. Later, say after a crash, will I be able to tune to a specific channel if there is no grid and no clock?
post #25503 of 29213
Yup. Tuner will be fine. The DVR part is intertwined with the guide
post #25504 of 29213
I will dump a cable box feeding a late SD Trinitron, and use the defunct HDD OTA as a tuner. We will see how my HDD being used with cablecard responds once it is a dumb box.

I guess I have to re program the Tivo. I was using the HDD as the OTA primary recorder, which had the advantage of the family using the Tivo box as primary-no messing with the HDD. I also liked how the HDD fed the set whatever was recorded....720 or 1080. The TiVo Box has a bug which crashes the box if you try to change resolution.

I"m still getting listings here in the NY DMA.

I've sent Rovi an email, Sony Support an email, and a hard copy certified letter to the president of Sony. Oh well.
post #25505 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by trenda View Post

This might seem simplistic but will it still be useful as an OTA digital tuner?
I have mine connected to a projector so it’s serving not only as a recorder but also as an OTA tuner. If I go the HTPC route I’d like to still use the Sony as a tuner instead of firing up a pc every time I want to watch TV.
I’m assuming that as long as there is a grid, even with no listings and a wrong clock, that I will still be able to tune to a specific channel. Later, say after a crash, will I be able to tune to a specific channel if there is no grid and no clock?

I find the DHG remote pretty poor as a controlling device for channel changes. I have always set up "Favorites" to do all the work. You can lose the preset names and then add any catagory. Then you need to go through your channel list to add them to the catagories. It's a pain at first, but if you make the catagories logical and the entries limited to just a few it's worth the effort. None of this involves the guide. You may have to keep a list of channel numbers. I don't get PSIP data so I don't know how that affects the Favorites. And there are universal remotes.

My normal catagories are News, HD, SD, and BBS. Since my cable has four decimal places it's quicker than selecting a channel by entering its number.

Loss of data will not remove your grid. That takes a reset.
post #25506 of 29213
Time to migrate to a micro atx pc or xTreamer Ultra 2, linux OS, OpenELEC-2.0 or XBMC and my trusty HDHomeRun.

I have a good friend that is an exec at Sony in SD. He said he would try to find out if they are working on a solution. I'll report back when I get any info.

I guess you can have your ZIP code back now "possumgirl" as it looks like I won't be needing it after April. frown.gif
post #25507 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by davygrvy View Post

Yup. Tuner will be fine. 

 

And it is an exceptionally good one at that, as far as overall picture quality and features. I always figured on the full functioning not lasting forever, but with most (not most, really - all, IMO) of the crappy, standalone tuners coming out since then, I knew I'd at least have a high quality tuner (even if it's ATSC chip is only 4th generation).

 

For some reason, the old Sony and LG tuners have always picked up extra QAM channels for me that *should've* been unavailable, too.

post #25508 of 29213
Oh crap. I found about Rovi's discontinuing the OTA guide service just tonight. Sure enough, I have listings only through next Tuesday (11/13). Oh well, it was a good (almost) seven-year run; I bought my original DHG-HDD250 just before Thanksgiving 2005, right about when Sony officially discontinued them.

Looks like it's time to switch to a TiVo Premiere (not the Premiere 4 because I'm OTA-only). I'll probably place the order over the weekend.
post #25509 of 29213
Is it possible that a firmware fix could be made that would both give us a manual clock change option as well as using psip data to fill guide data, even if it's just up to 4 hours?
post #25510 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by davygrvy View Post

[,,,]
The downside to 1.2.21 appears to be a problem deleting recordings, and the unit wants to always play the first recording in the list whenever it is turned on (coming out of standby).
What the hey.. So I did a full NVram and disk wipe to start fresh, reapplied 1.2.21, did "disable analog tuner" 179324865 followed by "VBI Search Current Channel" 963214785 and now I sit patiently observing the numbers count up on the ATSC slicer page and the "reception-VBI Stats" page also has numbers counting up that describe the data it is accepting.
[...]

I meant to reply to this yesterday, but forgot about it. For future reference, your DVR showed the symptom of being in "Demo" mode. The option to turn on and off Demo mode is in the 9012 menu. If you had realized that it was in demo mode, you could have just turned it off, and everything would have been back to normal.

Also, I see you mentioned using different TVGOS codes. Although the "VBI Search current channel" code seems to be harmless, other codes may not be. Be careful about experimenting with those codes, since nobody knows for sure whether those codes do what they say they do, or if there are any side effects to using them. I wonder if there may be a code that has the side effect of putting the DVR in demo mode? As an example, you said code 179324865 is "disable analog tuner", but the document I have describes that code as "Enable ATSC", there is no reference to the analog tuner. I'd hate to see someone in the final days, weeks, or months of TVGOS delivery, do something to their DVR that would cause them to have to reset it, especially in areas where it can take weeks to get the grid back. The TVGOS could disappear at any time in any area.

Sorry for the lecture,
Mark
post #25511 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ay221 View Post

Is it possible that a firmware fix could be made that would both give us a manual clock change option as well as using psip data to fill guide data, even if it's just up to 4 hours?

Don't you dare mention PSIP to the Sony reps. One of them might get the bright idea to "hey, lets just set the clock by PSIP time" . . . rolleyes.gif
post #25512 of 29213
I will wait until may of next year, when I will cancel my dish network service of what to do. I don't think I want a tivo based, just because I don't want my viewing habits recorded. I might have to go with a channel master version. Maybe one that has better ventilation if they make a new one.
post #25513 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ay221 View Post

I will wait until may of next year, when I will cancel my dish network service of what to do. I don't think I want a tivo based, just because I don't want my viewing habits recorded. I might have to go with a channel master version. Maybe one that has better ventilation if they make a new one.

Very optimistic. Keep an eye on day 8 so you will have a week to decide. Keep an eye on the CM site since they don't think there is a heat issue. Best of luck.
post #25514 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ay221 View Post

I will wait until may of next year, when I will cancel my dish network service of what to do. I don't think I want a tivo based, just because I don't want my viewing habits recorded. I might have to go with a channel master version. Maybe one that has better ventilation if they make a new one.

I have 2 DTVPals, along with the Sony DHG. One of the DTVPals I haven't used, and is still new in the box. Although there are aspects of the DTVPal that I don't like as well as the Sony, the two tuners makes up for a lot of its short comings. Some shows I record on the Sony, and some shows I record on the DTVPal. I pretty much use the two devices interchangeably. If Sony doesn't fix the manual clock set issue (which I doubt they will fix, but I may be surprised), then I will probably retire the Sony, and replace it with the second DTVPal.

Mark
post #25515 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

I meant to reply to this yesterday, but forgot about it. For future reference, your DVR showed the symptom of being in "Demo" mode. The option to turn on and off Demo mode is in the 9012 menu. If you had realized that it was in demo mode, you could have just turned it off, and everything would have been back to normal.

Good to know for future reference. I wish Sony tech support knew this when I called. They said the behavior was normal.
Quote:
Also, I see you mentioned using different TVGOS codes. Although the "VBI Search current channel" code seems to be harmless, other codes may not be. Be careful about experimenting with those codes, since nobody knows for sure whether those codes do what they say they do, or if there are any side effects to using them. I wonder if there may be a code that has the side effect of putting the DVR in demo mode? As an example, you said code 179324865 is "disable analog tuner", but the document I have describes that code as "Enable ATSC", there is no reference to the analog tuner.

Yes, the docs list it as "Enable ATSC", but displays "disable analog tuner" when set which is especially true for me now that all NTSC reception is over. After trying "File System Shell" and the display getting stuck, i figured I'd better stop screwing with service codes
Quote:
I'd hate to see someone in the final days, weeks, or months of TVGOS delivery, do something to their DVR that would cause them to have to reset it, especially in areas where it can take weeks to get the grid back. The TVGOS could disappear at any time in any area.
Sorry for the lecture,
Mark

Yeah, you are lecturing. KPIX here in San Francisco will have the data going all the way until the bitter end as assured to me by their chief engineer. It sux I'll have to wait a week for it to build a grid. In the time until the bitter end, Sony had better help us with a tvgos 10.1 patch to work with a usb network adapter that we'll have to purchase. <- in a perfect world.

Linksys USB300M
Edited by davygrvy - 11/10/12 at 11:48am
post #25516 of 29213
I must say that a Series 3 Tivo with lifetime listings looks more and more attractive. $300-$400 on ebay plus a $100 1TB drive to replace my 2 DHG-HDD250 with twice the storage capacity and would give me the same recording capacity as I have now. Record 2 programs while watching a recorded program. There are also 500GB and 1T versions available. I'm not holding my breath that Sony will do anything.
post #25517 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed1 View Post

I can not see how this saves them much money so I beleive they are trying to get US TVGOS customers to run out and buy a new device that has their new guide in it.
As for why things go the way they do in the US, I will stick to this statement "We have the best government that money can buy".

View the photo’s of Guides with the TV Guide logo on them, Rovi owns them. All of these Guides are managed at the same Rovi location, by the same engineers and support help.

If you see the TV Guide logo on anything then Rovi owns it, right down to the TV guide magazine in the rack at grocery store check out line.

I am hoping that Canada’s consumer protection agency will actually protect TVGOS users and stop Rovi. I believe Comcast of North America is the biggest player behind this matter. No Comcast Overseas?

WE WILL RENT A BOX MEIN FUHRER of north America.

Service Providers from Rovi’s page
• Cox Communications
• Verizon
• Dish Networks
• Sky
• Comcast
• DirectTV
• Time Warner Cable
• NDS
• UPC
TiVo should be on this list (see photo)
I could not find a photo of DirecTV, but they are on this list.






post #25518 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

Don't you dare mention PSIP to the Sony reps. One of them might get the bright idea to "hey, lets just set the clock by PSIP time" . . . rolleyes.gif

But who's PSIP time? One has to be the master or buggy data on XX or YY channel will screw you up
post #25519 of 29213
That's why I said not to even mention PSIP as an option to Sony. First off, the PSIP "time" is all over the place, based on the whim of the station. And as far as the suggestion to get Program Listings from PSIP, that is useless for a DVR. Many stations don't transmit PSIP at all, and for the ones that do it's generally only for the upcoming 6 hours or so . . . rolleyes.gif
post #25520 of 29213
Although manually setting the clock would be a nice feature, we should be demanding a tvgos 10.1 patch from Sony to work with a USB wired Ethernet adapter.
post #25521 of 29213
Its too bad that ethernet port is not avaliable on the mainboard as the sony could easily use a time server to get the correct time.
post #25522 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post

Its too bad that ethernet port is not avaliable on the mainboard as the sony could easily use a time server to get the correct time.

But then you wouldn't need it as the guide could get updates that way (if we had a 10.1 patch). 10.1 probably uses NTP anyways.
post #25523 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by davygrvy View Post

Although manually setting the clock would be a nice feature, we should be demanding a tvgos 10.1 patch from Sony to work with a USB wired Ethernet adapter.

Have I mentioned that I use TVGOS version 10.2.99 now? It runs on my TV, gets 24 hours of listings, and comes from the internet. I have it connected to the internet via a USB dongle that sells for about $80. While I would like to see such a solution for the DHG, just changing .21 to a higher number might be less confusing.
post #25524 of 29213
But how does just a software update get internet connectivity?
post #25525 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by davygrvy View Post

But how does just a software update get internet connectivity?

That's probably the easy part. As you know, when you plug in a USB memory device with a "SONY" folder, it can contain three (.13) or four (.21) files that are used by unit to update itself. If a ".31" update was written, it could be loaded by the DHG and then use the new code to request a USB internet wireless adapter be inserted. Probably it would be a Sony adapter which is similar to the TiVo adapter but no speed indicator. This, along with a setup screen, could then find the router, get an IP address, etc., and the new Sony firmware would start downloading at least a clock (part of 10.2 now) or maybe 24 hours of listings. The listing download happens at midnight if I enable it on my TV. They are not very useful for recording purposes.
post #25526 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by davygrvy View Post

Although manually setting the clock would be a nice feature, we should be demanding a tvgos 10.1 patch from Sony to work with a USB wired Ethernet adapter.

We might as well "demand" that they design a new DVR, and ship it to us for free rolleyes.gif. it is pretty much the same thing. 10.1 would not be a patch, but a complete rewrite of the existing firmware. They would also have to write drivers for the flavor of OS that runs on a DHG, for it to support a usb wired ethernet adapter. This DVR was discontinued several years ago, and we aren't in a position to demand anything. We will take whatever Sony decides to give us. If it is nothing, then it is nothing.

Mark
post #25527 of 29213
The OS on the DHG is Monta Vista Linux 2.4.18. The USB port code is located in /linux/drivers/usb I'll venture a guess that any USB CDC vendor neutral device should already work. Whether the TVGOS application would see it and use it, is anybodies guess. As v8 doesn't care about network connectivity, it doesn't matter until Rovi is so kind and helps Sony.

I highly doubt the kernel was even compiled with a TCP/IP stack
Edited by davygrvy - 11/10/12 at 4:26pm
post #25528 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

... it could be loaded by the DHG and then use the new code to request a USB internet wireless adapter be inserted.

My point from the beginning wink.gif Though wireless is more of a pain, IMO, but I'm not against it either. I already have LAN jacks ready for the other stuff in the cabinet next to the DHG.
post #25529 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by davygrvy View Post

My point from the beginning wink.gif Though wireless is more of a pain, IMO, but I'm not against it either. I already have LAN jacks ready for the other stuff in the cabinet next to the DHG.

I made several assumptions. First is that there is enough memory to hold the changes. Also, Sony no longer sells the wireless devices - they are built-in now. And of course I implied Sony knows enough about the data to feed it to the TVGOS system. Also, with my TV, once I enable the "guide", that gives me a set of screens where I can select internet or let it find V10 data OTA. I never use the guide since there are bugs that can cause the TV to stop some functions. Your typical Sony-Rovi interface.
post #25530 of 29213
I just plugged-in an old IrDA USB adapter in just to see if it loads, but no. It might be restricted to thumb drives only. It'd be a real gas if I stuck in a serial adapter and had it connected to another computer with a null modem cable and we got a shell prompt. That would be a trip. Anyone tried this?
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