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Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 853

post #25561 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Then did you go through the setup procedure w/o the drives connected?
(You have a PM)
I never even got a Welcome... It stopped with an error I didn't write down. I wasn't done on purpose, but you know some after maket 12v fans can tap the HDD for power. I did get the drive temp down to 95 to 96 on all four units.
post #25562 of 29213
The loss of TVGOS support for these boxes is just a low-down and dirty shame.

I'm going to miss this piece of gear probably more than just about anything I've ever purchased (except for my speakers). I bought this box on a whim back in late 2004 to replace a terrible Sony DVD Recorder I received as a gift, primarily because I wanted a way to record high definition. I had no idea, standing there at Best Buy and waiting for my exchange to be processed, how fantastic the user experience would turn out to be: A DVR for the over-the-air crowd and those of us who simply hate giving $800-1200 each year to cable companies and networks that should be offering their services free after installation, considering all of the advertising. Yet, I also see why so many cable subscribers still like it--the various "little things" in the nice and simple Guide navigation made it hard to beat by much of the competition, despite sluggish navigation (which is understandable considering the vintage).

I believe this is probably one of the greatest CE products ever made, as far as the whole "yep, it really does that too, folks" factor goes; although I'm sure there must have been a few potential customers who found themselves despairing they were not in an area with Guide reception--likely they returned it thinking the product or Guide didn't work. In fact, the product was easily "too" good. Witness how many of us are still here, happily watching ours, and likely savoring their use now more than ever, as we all now seem to almost certainly be "down hard" in the very near future. I wish anything else having moving parts I have ever owned had faithfully chugged away so reliably.

In the end, I consider Sony the biggest loser here. They made this DVR during their glory years before discontinuing it--along with other more exotic products, like AIBO the robot dog--in an effort to streamline their product catalog and turn the company around when it began to hemorrhage cash after PS3 didn't initially sell like they hoped. Clearly the lawsuits Tivo was already throwing around at the time helped expedite the decision to include the DHG models in this list of chopping block items, leaving us users to only wonder how much better the product could have been, after a few generations (and with additional tuners). Most consumers on this string are out an intangible amount of money after years of faithful service from the hard drive running at 110 degree or higher temperatures. In my case, I feel the unit cost me $5 per month, for 100 months. Not bad, considering I didn't pay anything else. That's what I call a really bitching "hardware solution," gang.

Finally, I can't emphasize enough how helpful all of the characters I've grown to know and cherish throughout every single one of those years on this thread have helped me to squeeze infinitely more enjoyment out of this product. The technical "hobbyist" dedication applied by good folks like JoeKustra, Possumgirl, mabuttra, davygrvy, Rammitinski, videobruce, HoustonPerson, WS65711, and (of course) the legendary Spiff--creator of the original unofficial user guide--have become over the years a sort of geek family of peers I always knew I could turn to for solutions when I ran into problems: The Lockup Issue, The 30 Day Clock Search Wait after a "clean sweep" reset, the physical DTV transition, The post-DTV "Leveling Up" Of Software Revisions required after a reset, the USB Firmware Update Method (I always "Leveled Up" over the air instead, ever-suspicious that the out-of-service/post-life USB update might somehow reduce my mileage). Each fix enabled me to postpone an expensive lifetime subscription to Tivo for another unspecified amount of time--and once again made me a hero to my wife.

I thank all of you for your efforts and research. Often you made using this box not only possible but thoroughly enjoyable!

Good luck with the efforts on the clock source code--I'll definitely be keeping my ears on. Sony certainly has bent over backwards for us, over the years--so nothing would surprise me.
post #25563 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post


Price reduced to $650 and extended warranty now only $99. Don't let this deal get away!

 

Good God. Who is the seller - P.T. Barnum?

 

(I need that Picard face palm photo right about now.)

post #25564 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Good God. Who is the seller - P.T. Barnum?

(I need that Picard face palm photo right about now.)

Price dropped to $600. Maybe somebody is sending him/her emails about wasting time.
post #25565 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by leoman View Post

Rovi isn't a charity, but they signed an agreement with Sony and Sony signed an agreement with its consumers who bought their electronics. This is called a contract and an implied warranty. In my opinion, Sony along with Rovi are in breach of warranty and contract.
Seriously? As in, a warranty to provide guide data forever? What are you smoking?
post #25566 of 29213
We made the AVS top three most active threads today. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing. It reminds me of 2009.

Our biggest posting day was March 20, 2009.
post #25567 of 29213
I think the consensus of the forum is that while the guide data will go, it is inexcusable to give us paperweights for Christmas.

"Lifetime" listings I would think would be the reasonable lifespan of the device. Ten years is reasonable, and we are coming onto that. If the Rovi hard stop for all is April 2013, one might assume, working backward, the Sony/TVGOS contract was ten years, which is fair and consistent with the design date. I don't expect much from Rovi, a company whose business model is unhappy consumers and happy content providers.

Sony has more of a vested interest. You have to choose a Sony product, whereas you are stuck paying a license fee for Rovi products-no one buys them willingly. I can choose never to buy Sony again, and attempt to influence my friends/family. (We are all the "influencer" AVS geeks, right ? Anyone who can keep this device running isn't normal. Guilty as charged)

If you go to the slashdot article I submitted, there's a lot of "Old Sony" vs. "New Sony" discussion. Are you the Sony that made great SD TV and the first VCR, or are you Sony that left Palm users hanging and put a rootkit on Consumer computers without permission ? I'm old so my meme is "mercedes benz of electronics", but like many things, this may be past.

I can't bash Sony concerning the HDD, to date...they have been very good in supporting the Hardware, and even dumped .21 on us without warning. (one post by a "new poster" who never returned)

I used the repair center once and was very pleased-although the employees I spoke to there were less than flattering about the "changes" "corporate" was making. They made sure I got my unit back, paperwork to follow-and while this may have changed, up until recently hard drives, etc, were replaced..if they still had parts.

All I want for Christmas is a clock-set patch-I missed the part on the box or in the manual where it says "Your product will cease to function April 2013"
Edited by speedlaw - 11/12/12 at 8:20am
post #25568 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedlaw View Post

I think the consensus of the forum is that while the guide data will go, it is inexcusable to give us paperweights for Christmas.

All I want for Christmas is a clock-set patch.

I sort of agree. It's really complicated to me, since I know so little of the culture and politics involved. The focus on OTA, the unclear general messages in the ad space and the unknown relationship between Sony, Rovi and the media makes this hard to understand.

Yeah, I would love the clock-set patch too. It would correct the biggest flaw in this great unit since it was released.
post #25569 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

Don't you dare mention PSIP to the Sony reps. One of them might get the bright idea to "hey, lets just set the clock by PSIP time" . . . rolleyes.gif

Ahh, am I missing the sarcasm markers, or would that really be a bad idea?
post #25570 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by cc-toronto View Post

Ahh, am I missing the sarcasm markers, or would that really be a bad idea?

PSIP, as discovered by many users, it not the best source of time, schedules, and maybe climate change. It may be a U.S.A. issue primarily.
post #25571 of 29213
Quote:
The technical "hobbyist" dedication applied by good folks like JoeKustra, Possumgirl, mabuttra, davygrvy, Rammitinski, videobruce, HoustonPerson, WS65711, and (of course) the legendary Spiff--creator of the original unofficial user guide
Since you mentioned him, anyone know if "Spiff" is still around?? confused.gif

It's too bad that this corporation puts their movie studio first. Considering the trash all these studios have been cranking out, yes I mean cranking out, as in quantity, not quality, their priorities are in the toilet.

The lack of regulation allowed CE companies to buy up movie studios. We all loose!
post #25572 of 29213
The bottom line, which answers the questions of why we can't buy a DVR, are probably located in the HDMI protocols. Since the HDMI consortium licenses the HDMI connector, and all the studios and CE companies are "on board" as joint owners, then nothing can be made, with the HDMI plug that isn't vetted by the Studios. You can't make a Chinese DVR and ship it over, as the HDMI is licensed, and you wouldn't get the license, or be sued out of existence due to the infringed HDMI plug.

The Studios were afraid that DVI would become standardized, like RCA plugs, and they'd have no control. I am in awe of the way the Studios figured out a way to get control over the whole thing, by a mere plug. This is also why we can't record, something I grew used to as a kid with a cassette deck. The "analog sunset" of analog jacks being removed from Blu Ray players, and ultimately, all US CE equipment, is part of the plan-newer stuff has less and less RCA on the back.

Every DVR which can record CATV is on a string, and parameters can be modified/killed by the Cable Co, or Sat Co. (DishDVR and Channelmaster were OTA only-the rules clearly vary for OTA content) I believe they tolerate TiVo just so they can claim that there is an open market, and that they aren't' trying to strangle cablecard. Tivo is totally on board with whatever the HDMI coalition dictates (they don't have a choice given size and market share), and a Tivo is just as controlled from a head end as any CableCo DVR. (Tivo has a few key patents or they'd be squashed like a bug by this group too.)

These rules, which aren't shared with us, are also why you can't change the hard drive, why you can't switch multichannel sound through your TV set (instead of requiring an AVR with HDMI repeaters), and why your "overlays" from that AVR don't work if you are using HDMI connections (you can't touch the "protected path"). Your gadgets are less convenient, especially the TV switching part, but your convenience is not an issue. The consortium is free of anyone ever reverse engineering the DVR to steal content. If anyone ever figured it out, the units could be bombed selectively (like under the Blu Ray standards) or firmware re-flashed remotely. It may be intentional, not just negligence or poor design, that we can't set a clock. They can't re-flash an HDD 250 or send it remote commands, unlike all the "rented" boxes but they can be killed.

In a world where the internet, torrents, and piracy don't exist, this would almost make sense.

We may, however, end up as roadkill so the "content providers" model remains intact. I'd go on about antitrust, but in this arena, it was summed up by one poster who opined "we have the best government money can buy".
Edited by speedlaw - 11/12/12 at 11:05am
post #25573 of 29213
The guide and update seem to be gone here in East Tennessee.

I lost power a few days ago and it has not updated since. I am down to three days of listings in grid.

I am going to try a cablecard from Comcast. They supposedly give the first one free.

Hoping for the best.
post #25574 of 29213
For those of us receiving guide data OTA in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area, I contacted WCCO and was told they plan to keep the equipment installed until the end of the contract period expiring 4/13/2013. Assuming Rovi doesn't kill the feed early, I guess we have a reprieve through the busy holiday season...
post #25575 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1701b View Post

The guide and update seem to be gone here in East Tennessee.
I lost power a few days ago and it has not updated since. I am down to three days of listings in grid.
I am going to try a cablecard from Comcast. They supposedly give the first one free.
Hoping for the best.

I'm sure the cablecard will work but it will not return the listings. I have three with cablecards and after Comcast turned off the analog TVGOS inserter I've been receiving my listings from PBS OTA (well, until last week when it stopped...)
post #25576 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by dp70 View Post

For those of us receiving guide data OTA in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area, I contacted WCCO and was told they plan to keep the equipment installed until the end of the contract period expiring 4/13/2013. Assuming Rovi doesn't kill the feed early, I guess we have a reprieve through the busy holiday season...

That's different. You are lucky. Having a grid is 50% of the work. Having a clock is the rest. Have you decided to dump the unit or try alternatives like VHS tapes or a TiVo? I would suggest an alternative but I can't think of one. I already have a TiVo and a Magnavox.
post #25577 of 29213
I'm reluctant to pay TiVo to spy on my family, so I might try an HDHomeRun Dual and some kind of DVR software, using my Oppo BDP-93 BD/media player to play the MPEG2 streams. Our DHG-HDD500 will definitely be missed, especially for its wife & kid friendliness.
post #25578 of 29213
I am sorry for asking but over 25000 posts makes an impression. So tell me please...what is so special about this recorder besides recording in HD as I presume? Is it ability to use TVGOS?
post #25579 of 29213
No-many liked this recorder because it provided many things some folks wanted at the time it was released including:
1. EPG - In this case provided by TVGuide service with no backup ability to use PSIP data.
2. No Monthly Fee - Upfront investment is all you were out of pocket. Some folks absolutely hate monthly fee's.
3. HD Recording - Bit perfect recordings of the broadcast.
4. Features & presentation unavalible from MSO DVR's.

Some of the limitations of this device which caused some to wait for the 2nd generation sony's to come to market, which never happened.
1. 2nd Tuner
2. Firewire OR Network connectivity - for archiving material.

To this day, the MSO DVR's are pretty basic. It is very telling that the incumbent cable companies do not feel the need to innovate nor compete in the marketplace and that consumers will generally put up with whatever they make avaliable since the non-MSO provided alternatives are limited.
post #25580 of 29213
LOL! I got smoochie kisses
Quote:
Dear davygrvy,

xx

- 9cb7

Click "respond" to reply through Messages, or go to your email to reply
Respond


From: davygrvy
To: 9cb7
Subject: Other: davygrvy sent a message about SONY DHG-HDD250 30-HOUR HD DVR 250 GB #221151467415 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221151467415
Sent Date: Nov-11-12 13:04:13 PST

Dear 9cb7,

Now that Rovi is discontinuing the broadcast TVGOS service, which renders this DVR a big paperweight/boat anchor, will you be reducing the price?

https://forum.sel.sony.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=15646&p=42536

- davygrvy
post #25581 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by esdwa View Post

I am sorry for asking but over 25000 posts makes an impression. So tell me please...what is so special about this recorder besides recording in HD as I presume? Is it ability to use TVGOS?
It is not just a DVR, it is an adventure.
post #25582 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post

No-many liked this recorder because it provided many things some folks wanted at the time it was released including:
1. EPG - In this case provided by TVGuide service with no backup ability to use PSIP data.
2. No Monthly Fee - Upfront investment is all you were out of pocket. Some folks absolutely hate monthly fee's.
3. HD Recording - Bit perfect recordings of the broadcast.
4. Features & presentation unavalible from MSO DVR's.

Another unique feature is while it can use a CableCard, having one is a not a requirement. You can edit the digital channel numbers in your area's program guide from the STB ones (like 521), to the QAM ones (like 119-3). Though, without a CableCard, you are limited to clear QAM channels.
post #25583 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by cc-toronto View Post

Ahh, am I missing the sarcasm markers, or would that really be a bad idea?

The sarcasm marker is there. It is the little blue icon that shows a character rolling its eyes. The name of that icon is rolleyes.

Mark
post #25584 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1701b View Post

The guide and update seem to be gone here in East Tennessee.
I lost power a few days ago and it has not updated since. I am down to three days of listings in grid.
I am going to try a cablecard from Comcast. They supposedly give the first one free.
Hoping for the best.

Where was your data coming from Knoxville? Also if there is data still on cable (I doubt that there is) the DVR should find it without a cablecard.

Mark
post #25585 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Where was your data coming from Knoxville? Also if there is data still on cable (I doubt that there is) the DVR should find it without a cablecard.
Mark
This may be a problem for a while. It will be hard for some users to tell if a TVGOS outage is due to Rovi or the local feed. It's still a good idea to email Rovi and report the outage. It seems to take over a week for a response now. More confusion. I see a bumpy road ahead.
post #25586 of 29213
I was pretty upset when I noticed the bad news in the TVGOS guide today and from reading the thread, it looks like we're sunk with the DHGs. It looks like the only alternative for OTA TV is the TiVo Premier.

My brief research shows some pros and cons.
Pros:
  • Initial price "only" $150 for the 75 hour box, or $100 for 45 hour.
  • Two tuners
  • Has internet connection for NetFlix etc.

Cons:
  • $15/month or
  • $500 lifetime service charge
  • oh yeah, the investment in the DHG is now a rock

Break even on the lifetime is just under three years. Does anyone know what's the expected life of the box? How does it compare featurewise with the DHG?

The cost isn't much different from the original cost of the DHG if you buy the lifetime sub.

People have talked about TiVo and privacy issues. What's this about?

Are there any better solutions right now? Especially ones "out of the box?"
post #25587 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by bschift View Post

Pros:
  • Initial price "only" $150 for the 75 hour box, or $100 for 45 hour.
  • Two tuners
  • Has internet connection for NetFlix etc.
If you look around, you can get better deals. Also, if you troll eBay, you can find Lifetimed TiVo HD and Premiere units for slightly more (or sometimes even slightly less) than the cost of lifetime service itself.
Quote:
Cons:
  • $15/month or
  • $500 lifetime service charge
  • oh yeah, the investment in the DHG is now a rock
The last of those is going to be the case no matter what.
Quote:
Break even on the lifetime is just under three years. Does anyone know what's the expected life of the box? How does it compare featurewise with the DHG?

Well, my TiVo Series3 lasted for 5 years on its original drive. Replacing the drive is fairly trivial if it should die - my Series3 has been running for the past year on a WD Caviar Black 1TB. Features? Dual tuners, 30 minute live buffer on both tuners (pause one, swap tuners, swap back, you're where you left off - long as less than 30 minutes have gone by), Netflix streaming, Amazon downloadable video content, Blockbuster OnDemand, Pandora, Rhapsody, YouTube... there's a fair number of features that the DHGs didn't have.

Also, if you want to save $100 on lifetime, talk to someone who's a TiVo subscriber. They can probably work a deal with you.
Quote:
People have talked about TiVo and privacy issues. What's this about?

The TiVo does collect anonymized usage statistics, though you can opt out of that.
Quote:
Are there any better solutions right now? Especially ones "out of the box?"

Unless you want to go with Windows Media Center (and apparently, it's being put on life support), there really aren't any good alternatives. The CM-7400 is still a thing, but it still has severe heat problems (which Channel Master denies, natch), and the PSIP guide is borderline useless - you'll have to pay $50/year for its guide service, with no lifetime option. If you want something that's flexible and reliable, and works for OTA or cable (not satellite), TiVo is about the best you can hope for. I've been very happy with mine.

Edit: Also, if you care about being able to archive a show, you can easily download shows from your TiVo, either with the TiVo Desktop app, or a web browser and the 'tivodecode' CLI tool. And if you feel like hacking a bit, pyTivo adds the ability to incorporate a few other stupid pet tricks.
Edited by demonfoo - 11/12/12 at 6:38pm
post #25588 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WegaNut View Post

The loss of TVGOS support for these boxes is just a low-down and dirty shame.
I'm going to miss this piece of gear probably more than just about anything I've ever purchased (except for my speakers). I bought this box on a whim back in late 2004 to replace a terrible Sony DVD Recorder I received as a gift, primarily because I wanted a way to record high definition. I had no idea, standing there at Best Buy and waiting for my exchange to be processed, how fantastic the user experience would turn out to be: A DVR for the over-the-air crowd and those of us who simply hate giving $800-1200 each year to cable companies and networks that should be offering their services free after installation, considering all of the advertising. Yet, I also see why so many cable subscribers still like it--the various "little things" in the nice and simple Guide navigation made it hard to beat by much of the competition, despite sluggish navigation (which is understandable considering the vintage).
I believe this is probably one of the greatest CE products ever made, as far as the whole "yep, it really does that too, folks" factor goes; although I'm sure there must have been a few potential customers who found themselves despairing they were not in an area with Guide reception--likely they returned it thinking the product or Guide didn't work. In fact, the product was easily "too" good. Witness how many of us are still here, happily watching ours, and likely savoring their use now more than ever, as we all now seem to almost certainly be "down hard" in the very near future. I wish anything else having moving parts I have ever owned had faithfully chugged away so reliably.
In the end, I consider Sony the biggest loser here. They made this DVR during their glory years before discontinuing it--along with other more exotic products, like AIBO the robot dog--in an effort to streamline their product catalog and turn the company around when it began to hemorrhage cash after PS3 didn't initially sell like they hoped. Clearly the lawsuits Tivo was already throwing around at the time helped expedite the decision to include the DHG models in this list of chopping block items, leaving us users to only wonder how much better the product could have been, after a few generations (and with additional tuners). Most consumers on this string are out an intangible amount of money after years of faithful service from the hard drive running at 110 degree or higher temperatures. In my case, I feel the unit cost me $5 per month, for 100 months. Not bad, considering I didn't pay anything else. That's what I call a really bitching "hardware solution," gang.
Finally, I can't emphasize enough how helpful all of the characters I've grown to know and cherish throughout every single one of those years on this thread have helped me to squeeze infinitely more enjoyment out of this product. The technical "hobbyist" dedication applied by good folks like JoeKustra, Possumgirl, mabuttra, davygrvy, Rammitinski, videobruce, HoustonPerson, WS65711, and (of course) the legendary Spiff--creator of the original unofficial user guide--have become over the years a sort of geek family of peers I always knew I could turn to for solutions when I ran into problems: The Lockup Issue, The 30 Day Clock Search Wait after a "clean sweep" reset, the physical DTV transition, The post-DTV "Leveling Up" Of Software Revisions required after a reset, the USB Firmware Update Method (I always "Leveled Up" over the air instead, ever-suspicious that the out-of-service/post-life USB update might somehow reduce my mileage). Each fix enabled me to postpone an expensive lifetime subscription to Tivo for another unspecified amount of time--and once again made me a hero to my wife.
I thank all of you for your efforts and research. Often you made using this box not only possible but thoroughly enjoyable!
Good luck with the efforts on the clock source code--I'll definitely be keeping my ears on. Sony certainly has bent over backwards for us, over the years--so nothing would surprise me.
What an elegant eulogy for this product. At least it was for me. You expressed my feelings to a T about the product and the people here on the forums. Let's face it...this in NOT my wife's DVR. It takes a special kind of person to persist through all the crap we've put up with. I can't imagine this as a typical consumer product. 9012 to enter the "secret" menu...not to mention all the 9 digit codes. Nowadays, everyone is looking for 1 button operation and if that one button doesn't work, they'll throw it away and get a new one.

BTW, after I sent my e-mail to Sony and got the canned response, I just got a request from them to fill out a survey about their tech support... I just thought it was cute. I always like filling out surveys when I mourning the loss of a "friend".

I'd also like to add my thanks to everyone here for all the help, information and support through the years. It's been fun...no...an adventure. Till this day, my wife still doesn't understand why I keep this beast. But I do.
post #25589 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkstur View Post

What an elegant eulogy for this product. At least it was for me. You expressed my feelings to a T about the product and the people here on the forums. Let's face it...this in NOT my wife's DVR. It takes a special kind of person to persist through all the crap we've put up with. I can't imagine this as a typical consumer product. 9012 to enter the "secret" menu...not to mention all the 9 digit codes. Nowadays, everyone is looking for 1 button operation and if that one button doesn't work, they'll throw it away and get a new one.
BTW, after I sent my e-mail to Sony and got the canned response, I just got a request from them to fill out a survey about their tech support... I just thought it was cute. I always like filling out surveys when I mourning the loss of a "friend".
I'd also like to add my thanks to everyone here for all the help, information and support through the years. It's been fun...no...an adventure. Till this day, my wife still doesn't understand why I keep this beast. But I do.

On the contrary, this is the first CE product that my wife grew to love. It became a part of the family... "oh dear, the DVR is acting up again today" as if talking about one of our children with understanding and forgiveness :-) It will be missed.
post #25590 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by bschift View Post

Break even on the lifetime is just under three years. Does anyone know what's the expected life of the box? How does it compare featurewise with the DHG?
 

 

1.) I've never had a Premiere, but my TiVo HD has lasted well over 4 years now, with nary a problem - not even a hard drive glitch, and

 

2.) Feature-wise, the TiVo has much more, which demonfoo detailed well-enough (other than maybe not specifically mentioning that it had "season pass", which might be especially attractive to some), but responsiveness-wise regarding the mechanics, I prefer the Sony. But then, I have the HD model, like I said, and the Premiere may be improved.

 

For OTA, though, you might want to consider the TiVo HD, because it's ATSC tuner performs better than the Premiere's. I wouldn't worry too much about that if you're completely free of any special challenges, though, like distance or mulipath issues.


Edited by Rammitinski - 11/13/12 at 3:17am
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