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Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 857

post #25681 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by gomberg View Post

VideoBruce asks:
Why would anyone assume the time setting and Guide data was foolproof and would last the lifetime of the product, not providing some alternative method.
Answer: Because it is in the user manual. Pretty clear claim it is part of the function of the box. Would you have bought one without TVGOS for $600? I would have bought a TIVO. Even now a TIVO is $80 plus $500 LIFETIME support.
You can't read the users manual until you buy the product. That certainly is a decietful practice. Advertise something...get the consumer to buy it and then when you get it home, you find out it's not going to work.

I know that the best we'll get out of this is another 2 or 3 years. It's the principal of the thing. It wreaks of cable company influence and I hate the industry with a passion. These units were the only thing I could find that circumvented their monthly fees and now they're going by the way side with nothing out there to replace them.
post #25682 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkstur View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gomberg View Post

VideoBruce asks:
Why would anyone assume the time setting and Guide data was foolproof and would last the lifetime of the product, not providing some alternative method.
Answer: Because it is in the user manual. Pretty clear claim it is part of the function of the box. Would you have bought one without TVGOS for $600? I would have bought a TIVO. Even now a TIVO is $80 plus $500 LIFETIME support.
You can't read the users manual until you buy the product.

Most TVs have PDF owners manuals available at their website. So do many other consumer electronic products. I routinely read the manual before making a purchase.
post #25683 of 29213
^+1^

I wish I had a dollar for every manual I read without buying the product. I guess he doesn't visit manufactures web sites at all.
post #25684 of 29213
Yes, we are PBS supported and now in the dark for listings. I have had to talk to them every month to reset the TV guide system. I guess at least I won't have to bother with that anymore. Cable is not even available out here where we live. We also have a lot of power blinks, so I guess it is just a matter of time to lose the clock and grid for good. Hopefully my UPS can handle short outages. I had heard that TIVO is suing a lot of companies for infringing on their patent of TV guide information. Maybe that pressure is what is forcing TVGOS and the like to go the way of the dodo bird. They were not making enough money off of people like us.
post #25685 of 29213
I contacted Rovi and got a reply. It appears Sony agreed to stop guide. See below respon



Dear SS-Stingray,

We regret to inform you that Rovi has announced the termination of broadcast Guide data in the US beginning on November 1, 2012 and completing in April 2013.

This was a business decision between Rovi and your Manufacturer. Please refer to your CE manufacturer for further inquiries.

Sincerely,

CE Technical Support
Rovi
post #25686 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

^+1^
I wish I had a dollar for every manual I read without buying the product. I guess he doesn't visit manufactures web sites at all.

To be fair though, I doubt any of us know if the manual was available online back in 2005 when these were sold. Even if it was, it doesn't exactly say "This thing won't work if you don't have a TVGOS signal." Now that we've developed an intimate relationship with the DHG, we realize it's implied, but I don't know how many of us would have picked up on that back then.
post #25687 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by danepowered View Post

Yes, we are PBS supported and now in the dark for listings. I have had to talk to them every month to reset the TV guide system. I guess at least I won't have to bother with that anymore. Cable is not even available out here where we live. We also have a lot of power blinks, so I guess it is just a matter of time to lose the clock and grid for good. Hopefully my UPS can handle short outages. I had heard that TIVO is suing a lot of companies for infringing on their patent of TV guide information. Maybe that pressure is what is forcing TVGOS and the like to go the way of the dodo bird. They were not making enough money off of people like us.
We will all go dark soon enough. Does it mater if it is now or April? Dark is dark.
post #25688 of 29213
Cable Card Users,

Does anybody know if the time will be set by the cable company via Cable Card if a Cable Card is installed?
post #25689 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by N2VWZ View Post

Cable Card Users,
Does anybody know if the time will be set by the cable company via Cable Card if a Cable Card is installed?
No TVGOS no data period. The PBS stations are being asked to return their OTA inserters. No word on pure cable sites. I have no listings for day 7 and day 8 but I have valid clock data. I already emailed Rovi and my cable company.

Anyone with listings and "regular" recordings: you might want to change that to "weekly" before the listings are gone. "Regular" implies a grid that has data. "Weekly" doesn't seem to care. That you should keep working until you lose power or do a reset*. A lot of shows are pre-empted with the holidays. You also have to delete the schedule entry since "weekly" can not be used after a "regular" event has been scheduled. This also keeps the titles, avoiding "unknown" for everything when manual recordings are done.

*or buy a TiVo
Edited by JoeKustra - 11/16/12 at 9:10am
post #25690 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss-stingray View Post

I contacted Rovi and got a reply. It appears Sony agreed to stop guide. See below respon
Dear SS-Stingray,
We regret to inform you that Rovi has announced the termination of broadcast Guide data in the US beginning on November 1, 2012 and completing in April 2013.
This was a business decision between Rovi and your Manufacturer. Please refer to your CE manufacturer for further inquiries.
Sincerely,
CE Technical Support
Rovi
I don't see anything in that "canned" answer where it was a mutual agreement between anyone. According to that one reply, it surely appeared that Sony was caught with there pants down too.

Have you written/typed a letter to Sony yet?
post #25691 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

That is a very good point Joe. The toughest part of giving us the ability to set the clock could well have been programming the "user interface". But as you point out, the UI is already there. As Frank mentioned, the TimeZone is not required. And DST is not really an issue, simply reset the clock yourself. The only thing that Sony really needs to modify is to poke the time you set into the right place(s), and to disable the TVGOS function(s) that periodically attempt to set (or adjust) the time.
EDIT:
After thinking about this a bit more I guess the user will also need to enter the current date and day-of-week, ia addition to the time. So the auto-shutoff dialog would still require some additional fields for data entry . . .

All the fields are there on the manual recording screen. You don't need to enter the day of week because the Sony calculates that. The TVGOS timestamp data does not contain a day of week, in fact the timestamp data is nothing but a 4 byte number that is the number of seconds since midnight 1/1/2001. Everything (year, month, day, hour, minute, second, and day of week) is calculated from that.

Sony does not have to do anything to turn off TVGOS. You can do that yourself. If you set the zipcode to 00000, TVGOS is turned off, and the DHG will not search for new data (including timestamps) any more. That is what I plan to do when TVGOS is gone, to avoid the possibility of corrupted data from being misinterpreted as TVGOS data, and crashing the Sony. There probably is a very small chance of that happening, but it will be unecessary for the Sony to continue searching for TVGOS data 24/7, when you know it is gone for good.

Mark
post #25692 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by N2VWZ View Post

Cable Card Users,
Does anybody know if the time will be set by the cable company via Cable Card if a Cable Card is installed?

No. Not for the DHG or any other device.
post #25693 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

..... If you set the zipcode to 00000, TVGOS is turned off, and the DHG will not search for new data (including timestamps) any more . . . . .

Ok good. I didn't know that 00000 would stop the DHG from attempting to update its clock as well . . .
post #25694 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Sony does not have to do anything to turn off TVGOS. You can do that yourself. If you set the zipcode to 00000, TVGOS is turned off, and the DHG will not search for new data (including timestamps) any more. That is what I plan to do when TVGOS is gone, to avoid the possibility of corrupted data from being misinterpreted as TVGOS data, and crashing the Sony. There probably is a very small chance of that happening, but it will be unecessary for the Sony to continue searching for TVGOS data 24/7, when you know it is gone for good.
Mark

That's a great idea.
post #25695 of 29213
The fine folks @ EFF are looking into this situation to help us out. I have no more info regarding this. They might want names of folks effected for addressing Sony directly
post #25696 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by davygrvy View Post

The fine folks @ EFF are looking into this situation to help us out. I have no more info regarding this. They might want names of folks effected for addressing Sony directly
Some additional links:
https://www.eff.org/about/contact
https://www.eff.org/pages/legal-assistance
post #25697 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

If you set the zipcode to 00000, TVGOS is turned off, and the DHG will not search for new data (including timestamps) any more. That is what I plan to do when TVGOS is gone, to avoid the possibility of corrupted data from being misinterpreted as TVGOS data, and crashing the Sony.

I think the only time I lost my grid was when I played around changing the zip code. The grid survived for months with no input data and multiple reboots (warm and cold). So, I will try the opposite approach, changing nothing once the signal goes away. We can compare notes once it all goes down... :-\

Oh, besides a manual clock set, the ability to manually enter titles would bring much closer to being "content". I know that requires a new UI screen or external keyboard input. (my early 2000's Panasonic DVD recorder uses the former, and late 90's Sony CD changer uses the latter) But if Sony gave us a clock and title editing, I would say they made a good effort to take care of us.

In the meantime, I am going to fill up the disk with HD movies from TCM, in case the Sony loses most of its functionality later.

- Kerry
post #25698 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

I don't see anything in that "canned" answer where it was a mutual agreement between anyone. According to that one reply, it surely appeared that Sony was caught with there pants down too.
Have you written/typed a letter to Sony yet?

Yes, I just got that too.

I sent a real letter last week, Certified Mail, to the pres of Sony in NY. We'lll see what we get...
post #25699 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by davygrvy View Post

The fine folks @ EFF are looking into this situation to help us out. I have no more info regarding this. They might want names of folks effected for addressing Sony directly

Did Rovi contact all the other CE manufactures that use TVGOS, Toshiba, Pioneer, Mitsubishi, Samsung, etc? EFF should contact those CE's as well. As for the 7 year age of the DHG’s being a good run, it’s not the DHG that’s dying its TVGOS. I have 4 TVs’ one date stamp 2007, all have V9 Digital guides. 2007 to 2012 is only 5 years of TVGOS service.

Is there anyway we can give our names/info and send them off priavately to EFF? Send them to a senior member and then on to EFF. Even if we can’t be anonyms, that list should be sent now because of this statement on EFF’s web page / If we say no; “Sometimes the issue doesn't impact enough people.”
post #25700 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOZOO View Post

Did Rovi contact all the other CE manufactures that use TVGOS, Toshiba, Pioneer, Mitsubishi, Samsung, etc? EFF should contact those CE's as well. As for the 7 year age of the DHG’s being a good run, it’s not the DHG that’s dying its TVGOS. I have 4 TVs’ one date stamp 2007, all have V9 Digital guides. 2007 to 2012 is only 5 years of TVGOS service.
Is there anyway we can give our names/info and send them off priavately to EFF? Send them to a senior member and then on to EFF. Even if we can’t be anonyms, that list should be sent now because of this statement on EFF’s web page / If we say no; “Sometimes the issue doesn't impact enough people.”

Please do not forget the DTVpal dvr, Cm-7000 They too have TVGOS.
post #25701 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

^+1^

I wish I had a dollar for every manual I read without buying the product. I guess he doesn't visit manufactures web sites at all.

I have more than two dozen manuals of various stuff as PDF files on disc. Numerous times, they are the source of answers to questions on various forums. "According to page 18 of the owners manual..."
post #25702 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOZOO View Post

Did Rovi contact all the other CE manufactures that use TVGOS, Toshiba, Pioneer, Mitsubishi, Samsung, etc? EFF should contact those CE's as well......”

I would assume (I know, I know) that Rovi has contacted all of the manufacturer's listed in this post, as the list appears to have been provided to PBS by Rovi.
post #25703 of 29213
Linkstur said: nothing out there to replace them.

Not true. The TIVO Premier is $80 from TIVO and $500 for a LIFETIME TV Guide.
post #25704 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Please do not forget the DTVpal dvr, Cm-7000 They too have TVGOS.

Don't they have PSIP data to fall back on?
post #25705 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ay221 View Post

Don't they have PSIP data to fall back on?
Yes DTVPal has that, and manual clock set if it's missing.
post #25706 of 29213
Just a note...
I found this article that gives a great explanation on how psip & epg work.

http://broadcastengineering.com/mag/psip-and-epg
post #25707 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ay221 View Post

Don't they have PSIP data to fall back on?
Yes but it is Terrible. 8 hours to a day or two of data. Clock off all the time and the box then downloads all the time during the day/ The download screen is annoying True the DTVpal is not a doorstop without TVGOS, but might as well be a doorstop.
post #25708 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

We will all go dark soon enough. Does it mater if it is now or April? Dark is dark.

This sounds like a sci-fi book I read 40 years ago. : (
post #25709 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioxcel View Post

This sounds like a sci-fi book I read 40 years ago. : (
Was it scary? Wait till most channels say NO INFORMATION Scary
post #25710 of 29213
If the grid and clock will remain after the ROVI shut down (as long as there is no power loss or reset), I suggest that everyone who wants to continue to use the DHG-HDD with a blank griid get a UPS battery back-up. I have had mine plugged into one for years now to prevent the occasional loss of the guide when there is a short power outage. This would only forestall the eventual end until the battery in the UPS needs to be replaced unless you can figure out how to connect a second UPS in parallel.
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