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Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 863

post #25861 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post

Interesting. I have a Dish DTVPal DVR (actually two) and the clock is still dead on compared to a radio controlled clock on the wall, and the TVGOS goes out til next Monday like always. Seems to have followed along with the transition here.

The "Atomic" wall clock gets time from Ft. Collins, CO and has no relationship to TVGOS. The DHG does (for me) listing updates at 00:00 Pacific time, so you may find no listings tomorrow. I have no experience with the DTVPal DVR, but if it has a reset ability DON'T USE IT!

Film at 11.
Edited by JoeKustra - 11/26/12 at 5:30pm
post #25862 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

And now for the latest on the DFW (Dallas) CBS TVGOS service (I still do not know the local call letters LOL).
With the change to only RF 19 (RF 11 was deleted) the TVGOS went bye bye.
Also missing is the pips for station info etc. Guess somebody threw all their inserters in the river?
And the CLOCK is also bye bye. It is off by about 4-5 hours now.
So now I have a large silver Brick that says “Sony”.
Wonder if the PIPS comes back will the TVGOS come back? Was the same inserter handling both jobs? Most likely “not”.

If the host channel was set by the old channel, then you may need to blank the host channel (by changing the zip code to another one in your area), to force a new numsearch for it to find the new data.

Mark
post #25863 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Just curious why are you guys not on Rovi's facebook page complaining to them. They read and answer posts there. Your voice will be heard there. Problem is only a few of us bothered to post on the Rovi Facebook page. If 25 to 100 posted there they might try to help us. Posting there might help. It might not ,but it is worth the try. it is free. It is realtime.

Good idea. I had not thought of that. Just posted expressing my disappointment.
post #25864 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

If the host channel was set by the old channel, then you may need to blank the host channel (by changing the zip code to another one in your area), to force a new numsearch for it to find the new data.
Mark

Yes to all of the above LOL.

Yesterday afternoon, after the rescan to take out RF 11 and have only RF 19, I did the TVGOS reset. There was still no TVGOS stream data last evening, but this morning there is!

Still no “timezonepackets” so no Clock (many hours off), but I expect to get a clock back today; I think that is the only thing missing so far.

One of the funny problems is: The old 1962 broken twin lead bouncing around on the antenna mast means our RF 19 constantly flickers “on” and “off”. It’s like getting automatic MDI for FREE! That may mean every time a timezonepkt is thrown at me, I miss it?

Life is in such a major flux now. Don’t know if we will stay here and dump money into this old house OR move again; the jury is still out on that one. One issue there is no money to dump. This old area of Dallas (around White Rock Lake), is like the twilight zone there is both very good and very bad and very strange. While my wife and I were hunting for food yesterday we found a grocery store that had actual food (instead of just frozen pizza and fake food in a box), but the prices are about 25% more. Not good.
post #25865 of 29213
So, I have went through multiple post since the announcement of the TVGO data going away. People keep referencing a "lifetime" guide service, but not one person has actually shown where it says this information is. One person said its in the manual, well I scanned through the manual of both DVRs and found nothing. Can someone actually supply this statement from Sony?
post #25866 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by djhspawn View Post

So, I have went through multiple post since the announcement of the TVGO data going away. People keep referencing a "lifetime" guide service, but not one person has actually shown where it says this information is. One person said its in the manual, well I scanned through the manual of both DVRs and found nothing. Can someone actually supply this statement from Sony?
I don't think they can. A few pages back, someone cited the DHG-HDD DVR's manual, and an explicit statement that said that guide service may be unavailable for a variety of reasons. I'm sure Sony had their lawyers vet that bit, for the explicit reason of avoiding any legal repercussions if TVGoS should go away (kinda like what's happening now). Far as I know, the DHG-HDD was never sold with an explicit promise of "lifetime" guide service - unlike say, the Moxi CableCARD boxes, which were (it was one of their major selling points).
post #25867 of 29213
Hilarious

Ok, the GMT clock on the information screens are correct, but without the “timezonepkt” the TVGOS screen clock and face panel clock is wrong.

Both clock set channel and failing clock set channel show 19-0.

Host flag is at 0xdf8

Funny potatoes.
post #25868 of 29213
I too have been very upset about Rovi discontinuing the TVGOS service.

I hope some helpful Sony SW engineer can give us the firmware to at least set up our clocks. The ability to use the device as a dumb VCR would save the day for me and make me have continued faith in Sony (I have many Sony products as my go-to trusted manufacturer).

I've been tempted to record an entire night of shows such as Wednesday night ABC. Historically I've had terrible luck recording ABC shows such as The Middle and Modern Family. I'll set to record regularly, and the recording disappears. Even if done the day before, come showtime, the DVR is not recording. Some ABC shows do stick for weeks, and then the next weeks it does not. I blamed bad VBI data from ABC? So thus I've missed many shows, where I'll get the half-hour of Middle but miss the next half-hour of Modern Family. I often resort to recording the one show that sticks, and starting and ending 2 hours before/after. Having UNKNOWN but "8pm Wed" in the recording list would be fine enough for me moving forward (aka 'old VCR').

What use does the VHS tape provide? Does it provide the clock or just the grid? Is it worth doing while I still have TVGOS?

Also as an aside, about a year ago I lost the ability to watch my Boston PBS 44.1 channel. It's in my grid and I see its programs. But when I tune in - I get "no signal'. My other HDTV receiver on the same coax and TV gets 44.1 fine. I deleted the number, changed it out for other similar-sounding PBS channels on the grid, punch in 44.1 directly from remote... nothing I do let's me see the channel. I get 44.2, 44.3, and 44.4 fine. Any hints to try? It used to come in fine a year ago, seems the DVR is confused.

So far I still have my TVGOS lineup. I too have noticed more CBS ads lately than ever before. I'm hoping Boston CBS keeps broadcasting the data as long as it can through April.

With luck we'll have the clock setting firmware after that.
post #25869 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by teleskier View Post

I too have been very upset about Rovi discontinuing the TVGOS service.
I hope some helpful Sony SW engineer can give us the firmware to at least set up our clocks. The ability to use the device as a dumb VCR would save the day for me and make me have continued faith in Sony (I have many Sony products as my go-to trusted manufacturer).
I've been tempted to record an entire night of shows such as Wednesday night ABC. Historically I've had terrible luck recording ABC shows such as The Middle and Modern Family. I'll set to record regularly, and the recording disappears. Even if done the day before, come showtime, the DVR is not recording. Some ABC shows do stick for weeks, and then the next weeks it does not. I blamed bad VBI data from ABC? So thus I've missed many shows, where I'll get the half-hour of Middle but miss the next half-hour of Modern Family. I often resort to recording the one show that sticks, and starting and ending 2 hours before/after. Having UNKNOWN but "8pm Wed" in the recording list would be fine enough for me moving forward (aka 'old VCR').
What use does the VHS tape provide? Does it provide the clock or just the grid? Is it worth doing while I still have TVGOS?
Also as an aside, about a year ago I lost the ability to watch my Boston PBS 44.1 channel. It's in my grid and I see its programs. But when I tune in - I get "no signal'. My other HDTV receiver on the same coax and TV gets 44.1 fine. I deleted the number, changed it out for other similar-sounding PBS channels on the grid, punch in 44.1 directly from remote... nothing I do let's me see the channel. I get 44.2, 44.3, and 44.4 fine. Any hints to try? It used to come in fine a year ago, seems the DVR is confused.
So far I still have my TVGOS lineup. I too have noticed more CBS ads lately than ever before. I'm hoping Boston CBS keeps broadcasting the data as long as it can through April.
With luck we'll have the clock setting firmware after that.
Do you want me to explain VHS VCR operation or will you look up my recent posts?
I have found "regular" less than perfect too.
What are the call letters of your TVGOS feed? WBZ should be the Boston O&O CBS channel, but you may have moved.
I recorded nothing but manual for four years, but my HD channels are now able to be mapped.
I am cable only but use both .13 and .21 firmware now.
BTW, bad data is counted with the G* 9012 test, usually caused by a bad DAC. It happened to me.
post #25870 of 29213
Just FYI; From the horse's mouth.

No longer able to use TV Guide On Screen® system
post #25871 of 29213
I have found that the problem with programs being dropped from the schedule seems to occur when the network changes the start time by one minute. If you catch that and save those in the scheduled recordings list, then they usually do not drop. Some networks do the on the hour / one minute late flip flop a lot. It's a PITA until you figure it out and save both in the scheduled recording list. The DVR will record which ever is on time in any given week and ignore the other.
post #25872 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by davygrvy View Post

Just FYI; From the horse's mouth.
No longer able to use TV Guide On Screen® system

So, Sony is saying you are on your own. No apologies. Tough luck if your DHG-HDD250 can't connect to the internet. Thanks, Sony. I just purchased an HD HomeRun Dual in advance of the loss of guide data. Sorry to say that the guide data in Windows Media Center is provided by - Rovi.
post #25873 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by teleskier View Post

[...]
Also as an aside, about a year ago I lost the ability to watch my Boston PBS 44.1 channel. It's in my grid and I see its programs. But when I tune in - I get "no signal'. My other HDTV receiver on the same coax and TV gets 44.1 fine. I deleted the number, changed it out for other similar-sounding PBS channels on the grid, punch in 44.1 directly from remote... nothing I do let's me see the channel. I get 44.2, 44.3, and 44.4 fine. Any hints to try? It used to come in fine a year ago, seems the DVR is confused.
[...]
I'll assume you get your signal over the air, if not then ignore the rest of this. Sounds like you need to do a channel scan. According to rabbitears.info, you should find a signal for 44.1 on physical channel 43.7. They don't show anything on 44.2 so I don't know what you are seeing there. See what happens when you tune to 43.7. If you see the PBS station there, then you need to run a channel scan. Also if you aren't receiving a channel, that has nothing to do with the grid, so remapping channels is not going to have any effect on a channel that you aren't receiving.

Mark
post #25874 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by myoda View Post

So, Sony is saying you are on your own. No apologies. Tough luck if your DHG-HDD250 can't connect to the internet. Thanks, Sony. I just purchased an HD HomeRun Dual in advance of the loss of guide data. Sorry to say that the guide data in Windows Media Center is provided by - Rovi.

It's funny... Rovi's response indicated that Sony was opting not to renew it's contract and we should all contact Sony.

Here's the response I got from Rovi after my Facebook post:


We regret to inform you that Rovi has announced the termination of broadcast Guide data in North America beginning on November 1, 2012 and completing in April 2013. This will affect all digital and analog on screen Guides that rely on broadcast data.

This was a business decision between Rovi and your manufacturer. Please refer to your CE manufacturer (in your case Sony) with any further questions.

On the other hand, Sony seems to think it's all Rovi's decision. Here's what they just posted on Sony's site:

The TV Guide On Screen syetem (sp) is a 3rd party service currently provided by the Rovi® Corporation and is available on some Sony TVs and digital recording products.

Currently the data for the Guide is sent by way of over-the-air and cable broadcast transmissions, as well as by way of Internet connection to compatible devices.

Starting on November 1, 2012 the Rovi Corporation will start discontinuing the broadcast transmission of data from all US locations and will complete that process by April, 2013 . Once the broadcast transmission ends in a location, the TV Guide On Screen service will only be available to devices that are Internet update capable, and are connected to an active network connection.

Did sony's contract actually have an expiration date and they opted not to renew or did Rovi decide on it's own that this was a drain on their bottom line? Either way, somebody's hanging a lot of people out to dry and it looks like they're going to get away with it. You can train people to accept anything.
post #25875 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by myoda View Post

So, Sony is saying you are on your own. No apologies. Tough luck if your DHG-HDD250 can't connect to the internet. Thanks, Sony. I just purchased an HD HomeRun Dual in advance of the loss of guide data. Sorry to say that the guide data in Windows Media Center is provided by - Rovi.

Technically Media center gets its guide data from Zap2it which is owned by Tribune Media Services not Rovi. TMS does supply TV Guide with data but Microsoft's contract is with Tribune Media Services.
post #25876 of 29213
Camera froze in truck so it started over with numbers LOL

Pic 1: Without timezonepkt Sony is a brick. GMT is correct, but the TVGOS date and time (and faceplate) is way off, it thinks it is some odd hour in December 2004.



Pic 3: HostSUFlag been at this level for a day or more. Mark I think you said there were times you did not have timezonepkts either?



Pic 4: PID good



Pic 6: The clock is on the correct RF



Pic 7: Houston shows recorded in early November, now have the funny December 2004 date and time and the “New” flags are gone.



Um may never get a timezonepkt before it all goes for good.
post #25877 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkstur View Post

Did sony's contract actually have an expiration date and they opted not to renew or did Rovi decide on it's own that this was a drain on their bottom line? Either way, somebody's hanging a lot of people out to dry and it looks like they're going to get away with it. You can train people to accept anything.
I can't imagine that a contract, or lack of, with Sony would be the reason to take down the broadcast version of TVGOS. There are still a lot of devices that use it. The DTV Pal/CM7000 do and there are numorous analog devices that can still get/use TVGOS through their cable provider. The trouble is all of these devices are old and Rovi isn't getting much income from TVGOS anymore. Although what is Rovi going to do with those inserters? Why not leave tham out in the field and just let them die a natural death, thus extending TVGOS for a little while longer. They're still providing the service through the internet, so without upkeep for those inserters, there is no addtional cost. Maybe Rovi is going to use them in foreign markets?

I know what you guys are going through. I bought a Panasonic DMR-EH75V dvd recorder in early 2007 instead of a buying Tivo and a non-hdd dvd recorder. I heard at the time that Tivo was having some financial problems and that if they went away, Tivo users would be left with bricks. HAH! Oh well, at least I can still burn dvd's from recordings off of my Dish 722K dvr.
post #25878 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkstur View Post

[...]
Did sony's contract actually have an expiration date and they opted not to renew or did Rovi decide on it's own that this was a drain on their bottom line? Either way, somebody's hanging a lot of people out to dry and it looks like they're going to get away with it. You can train people to accept anything.

Sony didn't do anything, it is Rovi's decision to do this. Somewhere recently, someone posted a list, provided by Rovi, of all the manufacturers effected by this. I did a quick search but couldn't find that list. Rovi is pulling the plug on all the TVGOS data sent out OTA, and it effects more devices than just Sony. My panasonic DMR-E95H recorder also shows that message from Rovi. Fortunately the Panasonic allows you to disable TVGOS, and set the clock manually, so this analog only DVR will probably outlive my Sony.

Mark
post #25879 of 29213
qz3fwd;
Quote:
you are not even close to the typical consumer who would buy a DVR. The vast majority of potential buyers would not even consider the device if it did not have a functional guide.
How many here are "typical consumers"?? I hope I never get close to whom you described. wink.gif
Quote:
Going back to the subject of PSIP to TVG converted. Yes it seems only LG, Sony, Rovi, Echostar know the proprietary format of the packets (analog or digital) which the TVG system uses and we know that Rovi will not release their specifications since it seems they still use the technology in other markets/transport mechanisms, so hopefully some very skilled individual will pop up on the scene and offer up a reversed specification for some other handy individual to take and use to develop either a PSIP-TVG or Schedules direct-TVG converted.
Which is one of the reasons I created the "What's Inside" thread for this DVR, though admittedly a little late from it's introduction. frown.gif


But, the answer to the question of what is "PCIP" stills remains. confused.gif

.
Edited by videobruce - 11/28/12 at 5:23am
post #25880 of 29213
"Also as an aside, about a year ago I lost the ability to watch my Boston PBS 44.1 channel. It's in my grid and I see its programs. But when I tune in - I get "no signal'. My other HDTV receiver on the same coax and TV gets 44.1 fine. I deleted the number, changed it out for other similar-sounding PBS channels on the grid, punch in 44.1 directly from remote... nothing I do let's me see the channel. I get 44.2, 44.3, and 44.4 fine. Any hints to try? It used to come in fine a year ago, seems the DVR is confused."

Also in Boston and just noticed that I lost 44.1 on cable on 1 of my two DHG. On OTA both are fine. The DHG tunes to 44.1 but it's all black.
post #25881 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

But, the answer to the question of what is "PCIP" stills remains. confused.gif
.

https://www.pcip.gov/

I guess there is something poetic about that.
post #25882 of 29213
All the search results pointed to that as I posted earlier. Someone using a unknown acronym again without stating what it stands for. rolleyes.gif
post #25883 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhufnagel View Post

The trouble is all of these devices are old and Rovi isn't getting much income from TVGOS anymore. Although what is Rovi going to do with those inserters? Why not leave tham out in the field and just let them die a natural death, thus extending TVGOS for a little while longer. They're still providing the service through the internet, so without upkeep for those inserters, there is no addtional cost.

My understanding is that Rovi has been paying the stations to host the inserters, so they are realizing a cost savings by not renewing these contracts. If the model were turned around, such that the stations willingly hosted the equipment at no charge as a public service to their viewers, Rovi might be willing to keep things going for a few more years. It would be an interesting idea to contact the business offices at a few stations and see if this is something they would even remotely consider. The resources involved are pretty minimal... a little power, a little Internet access, maybe a reboot occasionally.
post #25884 of 29213
It was a simple typo for PSIP, let it go.
post #25885 of 29213
That HDD250 with the CNBC picture is back on eBay. Only $290 this time. How far the great have fallen.
post #25886 of 29213
it is a pity they cannot use the usb connection in the back to be able to hook to the internet via wireless adapter or usb-> ethernet to get time packets from a NTP server. That cannot be that hard to do for Sony. Even better, if using the USB to network interface, pull a guide to the DVR from one of the internet guide services.
post #25887 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcgr View Post

it is a pity they cannot use the usb connection in the back to be able to hook to the internet via wireless adapter or usb-> ethernet to get time packets from a NTP server. That cannot be that hard to do for Sony. Even better, if using the USB to network interface, pull a guide to the DVR from one of the internet guide services.

You're assuming the build chain hasn't seen any bitrot - dollars to donuts it has. And in case you haven't paid attention to the news lately, Japanese tech companies, including Sony, are swimming in red ink. Assuming there's enough flash in the unit to house the necessary drivers, and that they can get recent USB Ethernet device drivers running on the older Linux kernel it's using, that's still gonna take a fair number of man-hours just to get support in there to connect to a network, including a DHCP client (guessing there's not already one), and an NTP client, as well as the necessary integration for either NTP server discovery via DHCP or supplying a UI to specify DHCP servers. And then on top of it, you're talking about them supporting another (what? what free guide service would you have them use? because there aren't any in the US) Internet-fed guide service.

It sure is easy to talk about Sony spending money to develop firmware updates for a device they haven't sold in 7 years. But you need to understand they have no reason to continue supporting it. There's no possible way it makes monetary sense for them, and there's not a chance that the remaining owners could show cause for a class-action suit over this. It's not going to happen.
post #25888 of 29213
Has anyone reverse engineered time zone packet ?
post #25889 of 29213
Demon, You are right. Sony has just been trying to stay alive since at least the mid 2000's when they were the first to drop plasma TV's because they were losing money on them. In the computer world ANYTHING 7 years old is a doorstop. If it is a peripheral like a scanner, it isn't supported by new operating systems. If it is a computer it won't operate new software. The rest of the consumer electronics industry is finally following suit. They don't even stock parts for products a few years old. Sometimes you can't even get parts for current products, even from companies like Denon, let alone third tier companies like Vizio. We can't expect Sony to do anything for us on something this old. It was a great idea, but when they quit selling them so quickly, and I was in the AV business, I figured they realized it was a mistake and was going to cost them money in the long run. My 2 cents. Lew
post #25890 of 29213
At worst case, I plan on still using this (at least for a while) as an HD tuner. I only have one HD TV in the house but plan on buying another one for Christmas. Rather than paying the cable company 12-15/month to rent their tuner, the Sony will fill that role, at least for the short term. The only problem is that I recently started having problems with my remote. #2 and #0 stopped working. Then, all of a sudden, they started working again. Just to be on the safe side, if anyone is going to terminally brick their unit, I'll be happy to buy their remote if they have no further use for it.
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