Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 866

I'm not him, but at this point, I think it's pretty safe to say that, unless you can change the mechanics of money, you're not going to be able to change the collective mind of the Rovi execs. This is a done deal. Trying to force them to continue the TVGoS OTA data feeds is going to be a waste of effort, and sputtering about lawsuits, as a few have done, is only going to encourage ill will.

The DHG-HDD250 was, if I'm not mistaken, $800 when new. A TiVo, even with Lifetime Product Service, can be had for less than that, and judicious eBay shopping can get you even better deals. Yes, cable is expensive, but to claim that a TiVo is, compared to these devices, is sort of funny.

Or get or build a Windows Media Center machine. Or build a MythTV machine. Or a SageTV machine. Just because you don't like (or don't know about?) the options, doesn't mean options don't exist. Unfortunately we don't have a strong requirement for thorough digital guide service for our OTA TV, unlike the UK and Australia, so guide service is a must - and depending on the goodwill of someone like Rovi (as Sony did, with the DHG-HDD) never works out well in the long run.

"Free TV"? That's like a "free" room in Vegas. True, the DHG still works well and as I look around, it may be the oldest part of my entertainment system. All good things eventually end. Lack of a clock set was a major error and plenty has been said about that. I'll keep mine (I've had four) online until it's no longer worth the effort. As with many here, I'm learning how a TiVo works.

I think demonfoo said it better than I could. When it comes to the DHG I have a different take than others do. I don't feel that Sony owes me anything (although I did email them with a request for a time set firmware upgrade). I bought my DHG off ebay after Sony had discontinued them. I knew I was buying an unsupported product. I actually thought that it would die in 2009 when the digital transition was scheduled to happen. Why would I buy it knowing that it would only last three years? I actually thought that there would be something new come along before 2009 that I could replace it with. I was thrilled in 2008 when I found this board, and there was talk that the DHG would live past the digital transition. In a way, the DHG has lasted three years longer than I expected.

Two and a half years ago, I bought a DTVPal DVR, and about a month later, I bought a second one that is still in the box. I figured the Sony was going to die someday, and Sears was selling out their DTVPals. Although I prefer some of the Sony's features over the DTVPal's, I find the DTVPal is quite usable, and the dual tuners are icing on the cake. Sometimes I wonder how i got along so long without dual tuners. After TVGOS is gone, I'm still thinking about using the Sony as an instant recorder, for when I want to start recording something right now, and then stop after an hour or two. I figure it will still be good for that, even without a clock.

Mark

Do you think the fate of the DTV Pal is any different than that of the Sony?

The DTVPal is already dead as far as support goes. However, it does not rely on TVGOS to work. It can use PSIP instead. As I said above, I have been running my DTVPal without TVGOS for a couple of weeks. I'm lucky though because all of my stations PSIP clocks are all within 2 seconds of each other, and most of my stations carry at least 24 hours of PSIP data. Going without TVGOS on the DTVPal was not a hard choice. The DTVPal refuses to show TVGOS data for a lot of stations even though it is available, and mine only showed data for 4 of my 12 channels (one of the channels that there was no TVGOS data shown for is my host channel). So I didn't lose much by disabling TVGOS.

After TVGOS goes away I can see a time when I might unplug the Sony, and put it in storage. I'll use the DTVPal(s) until it dies.

Mark

Doesn't help us Canadian DHG owners as the cable cos. here don't issue nor support cable cards - so Tivo is not an alternative. It would be OK if you could program clear-QAM channels into Tivo, but you can't.

You can use a TiVo without a cable card and it will allow you to manually record all clear QAM channels. I don't know if you can get the guide service however.

Problem is there will be constant messages about the channel missing from the guide. Not very pleasant. Having "Unknown" as a title is not bad when you have the correct time, day/date and channel as shown with the DHG but you know that already.

Thoughts about Channel Master 7400 as replacement - for the dhg-hdd 500? Everyone has a bit of a unique situation - inquiries about Tivo Premier seemed to indicate that while unit supports antenna input - for the unit to work correctly one needs an analogue phone line -and a broadband internet connection is recommended.

Over the years - as we all took steps to keep these units working - sure seemed like we had a budding bunch of systems engineers both pseudo and actual. This has been good experience - and while perhaps my particular set-up may not be the latest and greatest - it sure did suffice - and having all the sharpshooters here to consult did not hurt either.

Regards,
Barry

An internet connection is needed for the TiVo and the CM7400, but a phone line is an option for the TiVo. Please inquire about the CM7400:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1360146/channel-master-tv-cm-7400-hd-dvr-ota-clear-qam-internet-content/1800#post_22600928

I had one but it didn't like my cable feed so I sent it back. You may find a user near you on that thread. Finding a new one could be a challenge. CM only has open box, and Walmart & Amazon no longer have them.
Edited by JoeKustra - 12/4/12 at 11:24am

The 7400 is back in stock.

http://www.channelmasterstore.com/HD_DVR_with_no_subscription_p/cm7400.htm

Thanks to mabuttra for clarifying the impact to my Sony and my DTVpal. I disabled TV Guide today on my DTVpal and reset the machine. After the reboot, it took about 3 minutes to get the time set (correctly according to my atomic clock) and the only real difference is I now get 24 hours of data rather than a week. In addition, the information about each show is rather limited. It took another five minutes to populate the guide and that was all there was to it. I did have to reset my preferences, closed captioning, etc. but that took less than five minutes.

However, my Sony is not going to work anymore but the DTVpal is and it is satisfactory for my needs. I use Tivo and use the DTVpal for the additional two tuners I can use on my local channels.

I wonder why your link, 7400, goes to the page of a "new" item? From their home page all links take you to the open box item. They have 7400r in the URL.

Nicely summed up. The content providers realized they had to lock everything down...CSS on DVD was too weak, although at the time it was sent out into the world, no one thought that a cheap home DVD burner was on the horizon-in the same way that the VCR was an unexpected game changer. This begat Blu Ray, HDMI/HDCP, and analog sunset for blu ray players, and gradually, everything else. The Cable Company in my area first got rid of analog signals, then encrypted all the QAM save OTA rebroadcasts-buh bye no-box "digital ready" TV sets...... They "gave out free boxes for a year" so no one would complain that the garage TV and the Kitchen TV now became $90 per year (each) luxuries. Now, every point on the CATV system is ended by THEIR digital box, also reporting back ratings in real time. I get that this also cut down on stolen CATV, but the real reason was to monetize all or most of those secondary TV sets hooked up to the system. I find it interesting that if I disconnect my cable boxes, they take about an hour to recall my settings-and only activate after approved by the "head end"....it's not just descrambling the QAM-The box is set for 480i, feeding an SD set. Disconnected it puts out 720 until the head end instructs it as to the actual settings.

The only things left "open" in High Def are OTA TV....and even that was fought-the carriers wanted OTA to carry the "broadcast flag", which would say copy freely, copy once, or copy never. This didn't occur, but as they got EVERYTHING else they wanted, all neatly hidden and conducted under the guise of Digital Conversion, I'd say they are entitled to crack that 21 yo bottle of Scotch on the deck of the Malibu beach house. There's no "record in" jack anywhere to be found anymore outside of a computer.

Our corner of this is just a loose end...somewhere, in the CableCard Labs, or the HDCP "highly confidential" meeting, the statement was uttered...."how did we ever approve this device, which has no kill switch from a headend ?".

I guess the HDD does, and we're seeing it.

As far as the internet goes, force Internet providers to be police (which they don't want to do), and assess insane "statutory" damages against minor file sharers in private lawsuits. Piracy is wrong but a lot of what has gone after is crazy.
Edited by speedlaw - 12/5/12 at 9:43am

I wonder how accurate some of these articles are because they mention that Pace is also a target of a lawsuit by Tivo but look at this announcement from Pace:
http://www.pace.com/universal/news-events/press-releases/2012/tivo-pace-announce-first-pace-product-with-tivo-software-integration/

And take notice to some of the Partners that Pace has in developing their cable boxes:
http://www.pace.com/global/about-pace/partners/
As you should notice Rovi is also on that list. I was told that Pace developed its RNG 200 DVRs to run Rovis Total Guide.

I'd say that's a bit extreme. My experience with TV has been far superior since the digital transition: there's no more ghosting and other annoying analogue artifacts, the picture and sound quality is superior, and there are far more channels available, too. The last time I did a channel scan I got 88 channels, many of which would never have been able to sustain themselves as independent stations, such as the MeTV network. Having an OTA DVR also means that I get the benefit of being able to record two shows at once on top of being able to record a show and watch a recorded file at the same time, which surely bests the functionality offered by a VCR - yet it is all still free. Contrary to what seems to have become a common misconception, it is not necessary to submit to the cable companies to get a good TV experience, assuming you live in a market with good reception.

Pace's HQ is in England, and the article states that Tivo will go after U.S. firms first, then branch out from there. It also acknowledges that some companies have gotten license agreements for some products.

TV commercials can bring in a lot of money. I almost never use the current station monitor in the upper left corner of the TVGOS display. TVGOS should make that area a bit bigger, even though the listings area would be smaller. TVGOS would download some commercials in standard definition when updating the listings information, and play them in that upper left corner area when the user is looking at the TVGOS display. It seems possible that this change could be made with an over the air software update download. The Rovi business management department is missing what might be a profitable solution because they don't have good communication with their tech and advertising people.

Progress is making good and better use of what we've already got.

From another angle, the FTC might want to check for insider trading. Has anyone been unloading Rovi stock and buying TIVO?

Rovi stock is down a lot this year so anybody selling is losing. TiVo is up slightly. I think the SEC does insider trading alerts that are passed to DOJ.

I should have said SEC. The insiders, if any, would have been selling before the stock went down.

These are the major holders which have reduced their holdings by 33% over the last six months:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=ROVI+Major+Holders

Insiders only hold 7% of the stock.

Other interesting info (if you're looking for something to read):

"So what does Baupost's latest quarterly 13-F filing tell us? For one thing, he's very concentrated, owning only about two dozen holdings. Here are a few other interesting details:

The only new holding is media software developer Rovi (Nasdaq: ROVI ) , whose stock has fallen nearly 50% over the past year. The company has been experiencing solid revenue growth, but net income has been in the red. It has been cutting costs to free up funds with which to invest in new projects, and has been buying back shares, as well. It has also licensed patents for fiber-based TV technology to Google (Nasdaq: GOOG ) and it is involved in some litigation with several companies that could generate income -- if things go its way."

Rovi's starting to sound like TiVo.

I should have said insiders including those with insider information howsoever obtained. Do you know when Rovi made the public announcement to discontinue over the air TVGOS? Otherwise, whether or not "insider" trading is involved, my point is that it's better, in my opinion at least, to make TVGOS financially viable than to sell off the stock. Please understand that I don't know any more about stock trading analysis than I do about how to actually implement the TVGOS modifications I suggested; do you have an opinion about those? I am still suffering from irritation about how management decisions/errors, if in a different context, stifled SED.

I only know that the first ad showed up on or about Nov. 1, and the same for data loss from a PBS OTA host. I watch the Rovi stock and have not seen anything specific made public. Rovi can do what ever they want to do but right now that is nothing. I have seen posts indicating that you have until April if your host is CBS O&O. Just last week my cable company got an email from Rovi about dropping TVGOS.

I though rape was against the law?
I don't give a s*** how many patients they managed to acquire, no company is worth those amounts.
Neither is spending $4.5b for a aircraft carrier.
Edited by videobruce - 12/6/12 at 7:23am

Don't for get to keep posting our distain for Sony's lack of interest.
SS-Stingray

Isn't that just a tad off topic?

And the USS Ronald Reagan cost $4.5bn. It wasn't made in Mexico like the DHG. See how I got back on topic.

No it's not when it is an example.
Amount corrected.

Jeez, considering your distaste for Tivo, why have you been spending some time over at the tivocommunity forums lately? Couldn't your questions been answered at the Tivo threads over here?

And no, I'm not stalking you. But I go over there once a day and was very surprised when I saw your name on some posts!

Maybe this is the list you are speaking of?

mhufnagel;
The "distaste" is for the company and it's policies, not the DVR. Just like some other company.
It's painfully obvious, every other "solution" is marred with far more issues, though I now see TiVo has it's own set.

To answer your question; another point of view.