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Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 866

post #25951 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by bardot861 View Post

In your opinion - any chance this decision may be reversed? Any thoughts on how we might be able influence or modify this phase-out?

I'm not him, but at this point, I think it's pretty safe to say that, unless you can change the mechanics of money, you're not going to be able to change the collective mind of the Rovi execs. This is a done deal. Trying to force them to continue the TVGoS OTA data feeds is going to be a waste of effort, and sputtering about lawsuits, as a few have done, is only going to encourage ill will.
Quote:
The fact is - these machines are great in that picture quality as well as capacity of hard drive provides an acceptable alternative to costly cable/Tivo.

The DHG-HDD250 was, if I'm not mistaken, $800 when new. A TiVo, even with Lifetime Product Service, can be had for less than that, and judicious eBay shopping can get you even better deals. Yes, cable is expensive, but to claim that a TiVo is, compared to these devices, is sort of funny.
Quote:
The fact that the technology exists - but is being kept from the Public is not a feather in cap of Free Enterprise. One can't buy a Digital Video Recorder - unless you are willing to subscribe to Tivo or put yourself into the hands of the Cable Companies. Soon as we went Digital - and the way it was carried out - cast a pall on Free TV.

Or get or build a Windows Media Center machine. Or build a MythTV machine. Or a SageTV machine. Just because you don't like (or don't know about?) the options, doesn't mean options don't exist. Unfortunately we don't have a strong requirement for thorough digital guide service for our OTA TV, unlike the UK and Australia, so guide service is a must - and depending on the goodwill of someone like Rovi (as Sony did, with the DHG-HDD) never works out well in the long run.
post #25952 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by bardot861 View Post

Soon as we went Digital - and the way it was carried out - cast a pall on Free TV.
Regards to all.

"Free TV"? That's like a "free" room in Vegas. True, the DHG still works well and as I look around, it may be the oldest part of my entertainment system. All good things eventually end. Lack of a clock set was a major error and plenty has been said about that. I'll keep mine (I've had four) online until it's no longer worth the effort. As with many here, I'm learning how a TiVo works.
post #25953 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by bardot861 View Post

Hello Mark:
Over the years - have come to depend on my DHG HDD500 - and also have valued your comments/suggestions when problems occured.
In your opinion - any chance this decision may be reversed? Any thoughts on how we might be able influence or modify this phase-out?
The fact is - these machines are great in that picture quality as well as capacity of hard drive provides an acceptable alternative to costly
cable/Tivo. The fact that the technology exists - but is being kept from the Public is not a feather in cap of Free Enterprise. One can't buy a Digital Video
Recorder - unless you are willing to subscribe to Tivo or put yourself into the hands of the Cable Companies. Soon as we went Digital - and the way it
was carried out - cast a pall on Free TV.
Comments?
Regards to all.

I think demonfoo said it better than I could. When it comes to the DHG I have a different take than others do. I don't feel that Sony owes me anything (although I did email them with a request for a time set firmware upgrade). I bought my DHG off ebay after Sony had discontinued them. I knew I was buying an unsupported product. I actually thought that it would die in 2009 when the digital transition was scheduled to happen. Why would I buy it knowing that it would only last three years? I actually thought that there would be something new come along before 2009 that I could replace it with. I was thrilled in 2008 when I found this board, and there was talk that the DHG would live past the digital transition. In a way, the DHG has lasted three years longer than I expected.

Two and a half years ago, I bought a DTVPal DVR, and about a month later, I bought a second one that is still in the box. I figured the Sony was going to die someday, and Sears was selling out their DTVPals. Although I prefer some of the Sony's features over the DTVPal's, I find the DTVPal is quite usable, and the dual tuners are icing on the cake. Sometimes I wonder how i got along so long without dual tuners. After TVGOS is gone, I'm still thinking about using the Sony as an instant recorder, for when I want to start recording something right now, and then stop after an hour or two. I figure it will still be good for that, even without a clock.

Mark
post #25954 of 29213
Do you think the fate of the DTV Pal is any different than that of the Sony?
post #25955 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humbleman View Post

Do you think the fate of the DTV Pal is any different than that of the Sony?

The DTVPal is already dead as far as support goes. However, it does not rely on TVGOS to work. It can use PSIP instead. As I said above, I have been running my DTVPal without TVGOS for a couple of weeks. I'm lucky though because all of my stations PSIP clocks are all within 2 seconds of each other, and most of my stations carry at least 24 hours of PSIP data. Going without TVGOS on the DTVPal was not a hard choice. The DTVPal refuses to show TVGOS data for a lot of stations even though it is available, and mine only showed data for 4 of my 12 channels (one of the channels that there was no TVGOS data shown for is my host channel). So I didn't lose much by disabling TVGOS.

After TVGOS goes away I can see a time when I might unplug the Sony, and put it in storage. I'll use the DTVPal(s) until it dies.

Mark
post #25956 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonfoo View Post

A TiVo, even with Lifetime Product Service, can be had for less than that, and judicious eBay shopping can get you even better deals.

Doesn't help us Canadian DHG owners as the cable cos. here don't issue nor support cable cards - so Tivo is not an alternative. It would be OK if you could program clear-QAM channels into Tivo, but you can't.
post #25957 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by cxgy View Post

Doesn't help us Canadian DHG owners as the cable cos. here don't issue nor support cable cards - so Tivo is not an alternative. It would be OK if you could program clear-QAM channels into Tivo, but you can't.

You can use a TiVo without a cable card and it will allow you to manually record all clear QAM channels. I don't know if you can get the guide service however.

Problem is there will be constant messages about the channel missing from the guide. Not very pleasant. Having "Unknown" as a title is not bad when you have the correct time, day/date and channel as shown with the DHG but you know that already.
post #25958 of 29213
Thoughts about Channel Master 7400 as replacement - for the dhg-hdd 500? Everyone has a bit of a unique situation - inquiries about Tivo Premier seemed to indicate that while unit supports antenna input - for the unit to work correctly one needs an analogue phone line -and a broadband internet connection is recommended.

Over the years - as we all took steps to keep these units working - sure seemed like we had a budding bunch of systems engineers both pseudo and actual. This has been good experience - and while perhaps my particular set-up may not be the latest and greatest - it sure did suffice - and having all the sharpshooters here to consult did not hurt either.

Regards,
Barry
post #25959 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by bardot861 View Post

Thoughts about Channel Master 7400 as replacement - for the dhg-hdd 500? Everyone has a bit of a unique situation - inquiries about Tivo Premier seemed to indicate that while unit supports antenna input - for the unit to work correctly one needs an analogue phone line -and a broadband internet connection is recommended.
Over the years - as we all took steps to keep these units working - sure seemed like we had a budding bunch of systems engineers both pseudo and actual. This has been good experience - and while perhaps my particular set-up may not be the latest and greatest - it sure did suffice - and having all the sharpshooters here to consult did not hurt either.
Regards,
Barry

An internet connection is needed for the TiVo and the CM7400, but a phone line is an option for the TiVo. Please inquire about the CM7400:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1360146/channel-master-tv-cm-7400-hd-dvr-ota-clear-qam-internet-content/1800#post_22600928

I had one but it didn't like my cable feed so I sent it back. You may find a user near you on that thread. Finding a new one could be a challenge. CM only has open box, and Walmart & Amazon no longer have them.
Edited by JoeKustra - 12/4/12 at 11:24am
post #25960 of 29213
The 7400 is back in stock.

http://www.channelmasterstore.com/HD_DVR_with_no_subscription_p/cm7400.htm
post #25961 of 29213
Thanks to mabuttra for clarifying the impact to my Sony and my DTVpal. I disabled TV Guide today on my DTVpal and reset the machine. After the reboot, it took about 3 minutes to get the time set (correctly according to my atomic clock) and the only real difference is I now get 24 hours of data rather than a week. In addition, the information about each show is rather limited. It took another five minutes to populate the guide and that was all there was to it. I did have to reset my preferences, closed captioning, etc. but that took less than five minutes.

However, my Sony is not going to work anymore but the DTVpal is and it is satisfactory for my needs. I use Tivo and use the DTVpal for the additional two tuners I can use on my local channels.
post #25962 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ay221 View Post

The 7400 is back in stock.
http://www.channelmasterstore.com/HD_DVR_with_no_subscription_p/cm7400.htm

I wonder why your link, 7400, goes to the page of a "new" item? From their home page all links take you to the open box item. They have 7400r in the URL.
post #25963 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by bardot861 View Post

Attn. Mark Buttra re TV Guide On Screen / Rovi being discontinued
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Hello Mark:
Over the years - have come to depend on my DHG HDD500 - and also have valued your comments/suggestions when problems occured.
In your opinion - any chance this decision may be reversed? Any thoughts on how we might be able influence or modify this phase-out?
The fact is - these machines are great in that picture quality as well as capacity of hard drive provides an acceptable alternative to costly
cable/Tivo. The fact that the technology exists - but is being kept from the Public is not a feather in cap of Free Enterprise. One can't buy a Digital Video
Recorder - unless you are willing to subscribe to Tivo or put yourself into the hands of the Cable Companies. Soon as we went Digital - and the way it
was carried out - cast a pall on Free TV.
Comments?
Regards to all.
BarryReplyQuote Multi 0 ReplyQuote Multi 0

Nicely summed up. The content providers realized they had to lock everything down...CSS on DVD was too weak, although at the time it was sent out into the world, no one thought that a cheap home DVD burner was on the horizon-in the same way that the VCR was an unexpected game changer. This begat Blu Ray, HDMI/HDCP, and analog sunset for blu ray players, and gradually, everything else. The Cable Company in my area first got rid of analog signals, then encrypted all the QAM save OTA rebroadcasts-buh bye no-box "digital ready" TV sets...... They "gave out free boxes for a year" so no one would complain that the garage TV and the Kitchen TV now became $90 per year (each) luxuries. Now, every point on the CATV system is ended by THEIR digital box, also reporting back ratings in real time. I get that this also cut down on stolen CATV, but the real reason was to monetize all or most of those secondary TV sets hooked up to the system. I find it interesting that if I disconnect my cable boxes, they take about an hour to recall my settings-and only activate after approved by the "head end"....it's not just descrambling the QAM-The box is set for 480i, feeding an SD set. Disconnected it puts out 720 until the head end instructs it as to the actual settings.

The only things left "open" in High Def are OTA TV....and even that was fought-the carriers wanted OTA to carry the "broadcast flag", which would say copy freely, copy once, or copy never. This didn't occur, but as they got EVERYTHING else they wanted, all neatly hidden and conducted under the guise of Digital Conversion, I'd say they are entitled to crack that 21 yo bottle of Scotch on the deck of the Malibu beach house. There's no "record in" jack anywhere to be found anymore outside of a computer.

Our corner of this is just a loose end...somewhere, in the CableCard Labs, or the HDCP "highly confidential" meeting, the statement was uttered...."how did we ever approve this device, which has no kill switch from a headend ?".

I guess the HDD does, and we're seeing it.

As far as the internet goes, force Internet providers to be police (which they don't want to do), and assess insane "statutory" damages against minor file sharers in private lawsuits. Piracy is wrong but a lot of what has gone after is crazy.
Edited by speedlaw - 12/5/12 at 9:43am
post #25964 of 29213
Deregulation at it's extreme. Corporate & content provider greed.
post #25965 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

eek.gif

Tivo lawsuits are just beginnoing!

eek.gif

I wonder how accurate some of these articles are because they mention that Pace is also a target of a lawsuit by Tivo but look at this announcement from Pace:
http://www.pace.com/universal/news-events/press-releases/2012/tivo-pace-announce-first-pace-product-with-tivo-software-integration/

And take notice to some of the Partners that Pace has in developing their cable boxes:
http://www.pace.com/global/about-pace/partners/
As you should notice Rovi is also on that list. I was told that Pace developed its RNG 200 DVRs to run Rovis Total Guide.
post #25966 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by bardot861 View Post

One can't buy a Digital Video Recorder - unless you are willing to subscribe to Tivo or put yourself into the hands of the Cable Companies. Soon as we went Digital - and the way it was carried out - cast a pall on Free TV.

I'd say that's a bit extreme. My experience with TV has been far superior since the digital transition: there's no more ghosting and other annoying analogue artifacts, the picture and sound quality is superior, and there are far more channels available, too. The last time I did a channel scan I got 88 channels, many of which would never have been able to sustain themselves as independent stations, such as the MeTV network. Having an OTA DVR also means that I get the benefit of being able to record two shows at once on top of being able to record a show and watch a recorded file at the same time, which surely bests the functionality offered by a VCR - yet it is all still free. Contrary to what seems to have become a common misconception, it is not necessary to submit to the cable companies to get a good TV experience, assuming you live in a market with good reception.
post #25967 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

eek.gif

Tivo lawsuits are just beginnoing!

eek.gif

I wonder how accurate some of these articles are because they mention that Pace is also a target of a lawsuit by Tivo but look at this announcement from Pace:
http://www.pace.com/universal/news-events/press-releases/2012/tivo-pace-announce-first-pace-product-with-tivo-software-integration/

And take notice to some of the Partners that Pace has in developing their cable boxes:
http://www.pace.com/global/about-pace/partners/
As you should notice Rovi is also on that list. I was told that Pace developed its RNG 200 DVRs to run Rovis Total Guide.
 

Pace's HQ is in England, and the article states that Tivo will go after U.S. firms first, then branch out from there. It also acknowledges that some companies have gotten license agreements for some products.

post #25968 of 29213
TV commercials can bring in a lot of money. I almost never use the current station monitor in the upper left corner of the TVGOS display. TVGOS should make that area a bit bigger, even though the listings area would be smaller. TVGOS would download some commercials in standard definition when updating the listings information, and play them in that upper left corner area when the user is looking at the TVGOS display. It seems possible that this change could be made with an over the air software update download. The Rovi business management department is missing what might be a profitable solution because they don't have good communication with their tech and advertising people.

Progress is making good and better use of what we've already got.

From another angle, the FTC might want to check for insider trading. Has anyone been unloading Rovi stock and buying TIVO?
post #25969 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by cablenest View Post

From another angle, the FTC might want to check for insider trading. Has anyone been unloading Rovi stock and buying TIVO?

Rovi stock is down a lot this year so anybody selling is losing. TiVo is up slightly. I think the SEC does insider trading alerts that are passed to DOJ.
post #25970 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

Rovi stock is down a lot this year so anybody selling is losing. TiVo is up slightly. I think the SEC does insider trading alerts that are passed to DOJ.


I should have said SEC. The insiders, if any, would have been selling before the stock went down.
post #25971 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by cablenest View Post

I should have said SEC. The insiders, if any, would have been selling before the stock went down.

These are the major holders which have reduced their holdings by 33% over the last six months:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=ROVI+Major+Holders

Insiders only hold 7% of the stock.

Other interesting info (if you're looking for something to read):

"So what does Baupost's latest quarterly 13-F filing tell us? For one thing, he's very concentrated, owning only about two dozen holdings. Here are a few other interesting details:

The only new holding is media software developer Rovi (Nasdaq: ROVI ) , whose stock has fallen nearly 50% over the past year. The company has been experiencing solid revenue growth, but net income has been in the red. It has been cutting costs to free up funds with which to invest in new projects, and has been buying back shares, as well. It has also licensed patents for fiber-based TV technology to Google (Nasdaq: GOOG ) and it is involved in some litigation with several companies that could generate income -- if things go its way."

Rovi's starting to sound like TiVo.
post #25972 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

These are the major holders which have reduced their holdings by 33% over the last six months:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=ROVI+Major+Holders
Insiders only hold 7% of the stock.
Other interesting info (if you're looking for something to read):
"So what does Baupost's latest quarterly 13-F filing tell us? For one thing, he's very concentrated, owning only about two dozen holdings. Here are a few other interesting details:
The only new holding is media software developer Rovi (Nasdaq: ROVI ) , whose stock has fallen nearly 50% over the past year. The company has been experiencing solid revenue growth, but net income has been in the red. It has been cutting costs to free up funds with which to invest in new projects, and has been buying back shares, as well. It has also licensed patents for fiber-based TV technology to Google (Nasdaq: GOOG ) and it is involved in some litigation with several companies that could generate income -- if things go its way."
Rovi's starting to sound like TiVo.


I should have said insiders including those with insider information howsoever obtained. Do you know when Rovi made the public announcement to discontinue over the air TVGOS? Otherwise, whether or not "insider" trading is involved, my point is that it's better, in my opinion at least, to make TVGOS financially viable than to sell off the stock. Please understand that I don't know any more about stock trading analysis than I do about how to actually implement the TVGOS modifications I suggested; do you have an opinion about those? I am still suffering from irritation about how management decisions/errors, if in a different context, stifled SED.
post #25973 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by cablenest View Post

I should have said insiders including those with insider information howsoever obtained. Do you know when Rovi made the public announcement to discontinue over the air TVGOS? Otherwise, whether or not "insider" trading is involved, my point is that it's better, in my opinion at least, to make TVGOS financially viable than to sell off the stock. Please understand that I don't know any more about stock trading analysis than I do about how to actually implement the TVGOS modifications I suggested; do you have an opinion about those? I am still suffering from irritation about how management decisions/errors, if in a different context, stifled SED.
I only know that the first ad showed up on or about Nov. 1, and the same for data loss from a PBS OTA host. I watch the Rovi stock and have not seen anything specific made public. Rovi can do what ever they want to do but right now that is nothing. I have seen posts indicating that you have until April if your host is CBS O&O. Just last week my cable company got an email from Rovi about dropping TVGOS.
post #25974 of 29213
Quote:
So far TiVo settlements have topped $1bn, with $600m awarded from Dish Network, $215m from AT&T and $250m from Verizon.
I though rape was against the law?
I don't give a s*** how many patients they managed to acquire, no company is worth those amounts. mad.gif
Neither is spending $4.5b for a aircraft carrier. rolleyes.gif
Edited by videobruce - 12/6/12 at 7:23am
post #25975 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACSWIRELESS View Post

Don't know if it will do any good, but back in 2009 enough requests got us our ATSC digital only software upgrade from Sony. You don't know until you try, if enough of us asks the better our chances are. Please go to site below and let Sony know.
Just sent the message below to Sony at:
http://community.sony.com/t5/Other-Sony-Products/dhg-hdd250-dhg-hdd500-Sony-DVR-s/m-p/37437
Re: dhg-hdd250/dhg-hdd500 Sony DVR's
Options
11-23-2012 10:19 PM
I now have four perfectly good DHG HDD-500 units that would still be usable as HD DVR's if Sony would accept the fact that they failed to have a way to set the time. I know that the TV Guide service is out of Sony's control, but don't blame TVGOS for a SONY product that DOES NOT have a way to set the clock from a menu in the Sony product when other manufactures do make it possible to set the time without TVGOS.

Why is it that SONY did not enable a way to set the "clock" when most other manufacturers let the owners set the clock without a TVGOS signal? Sony could have fixed that when the software was upgraded for digital only service in 2009.

I realize that the DHG HDD units don't have a battery back-up for the clock, but we can solve that problem with a UPS.

Sony, don't let down thousands of your customers that shelled out $800 - $1000 per unit, and most purchased more than one unit since multi-tuner units were not available at that time.

Thanks,

ACS Wireless

Don't for get to keep posting our distain for Sony's lack of interest.
SS-Stingray
post #25976 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Neither is spending $2b to $4b for a aircraft carrier. rolleyes.gif

Isn't that just a tad off topic?

And the USS Ronald Reagan cost $4.5bn. It wasn't made in Mexico like the DHG. See how I got back on topic.
post #25977 of 29213
No it's not when it is an example.
Amount corrected.
post #25978 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

I though rape was against the law?
I don't give a s*** how many patients they managed to acquire, no company is worth those amounts. mad.gif
Jeez, considering your distaste for Tivo, why have you been spending some time over at the tivocommunity forums lately? rolleyes.gif Couldn't your questions been answered at the Tivo threads over here? wink.gif

And no, I'm not stalking you. But I go over there once a day and was very surprised when I saw your name on some posts!
post #25979 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Sony didn't do anything, it is Rovi's decision to do this. Somewhere recently, someone posted a list, provided by Rovi, of all the manufacturers effected by this. I did a quick search but couldn't find that list.....

Maybe this is the list you are speaking of?
post #25980 of 29213
mhufnagel;
The "distaste" is for the company and it's policies, not the DVR. Just like some other company. wink.gif
It's painfully obvious, every other "solution" is marred with far more issues, though I now see TiVo has it's own set.

To answer your question; another point of view.
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