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Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 875

post #26221 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfran1 View Post

Is there clock data still being sent?
If not how do I Manually set it?
Are there still cable cards for this from COX, RI, USA and will that give me the guide and clock?
I would asume cards are cheaper than any alternate way?
OPTIONS PLEASE

Have you lost your clock on Cox Cable in RI?
post #26222 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedlaw View Post

One of my pet peeves is we now live in a world where every major company you do business with stares at a spreadsheet and tries to get $5 more out of the transaction...smaller package, Minimum prices, or products that require an upsell to work correctly.

Keeping off topic, this is something you can't make up:

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/al-jazeera-buys-al-gore-current-tv-500m-162948331.html;_ylt=AgCAYxKvnHNbnDLFnhAxY.CiuYdG;_ylu=X3oDMTNyNTVuNzNyBG1pdANGUCBUb3AgU3RvcnkgTGVmdARwa2cDYWU0ZDNjMTgtZjY1NS0zZDc0LWIwYWYtNTE0ODBiMDE5NGY4BHBvcwMxBHNlYwN0b3Bfc3RvcnkEdmVyAzc1OTkwNTEzLTU1Y2YtMTFlMi1iZGY3LTRhYjIwZjFjZGY0Nw--;_ylg=X3oDMTFpNzk0NjhtBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANob21lBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25z;_ylv=3
post #26223 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

In the UK or Europe maybe, but no one has reported this here. And it may still be a temp thing there, we don't know yet.
Please don't spread rumor as fact, no one knows when free WMC guide data will go away in the US.

It is really not a rumor but a warning to any DHG users that are looking for a substitute DVR option. There appears to be something going on with the guide data and WMC so until it becomes apparrent to what is going on, my advise is to hold off spending any money on a product that may become discontinued. We already know that MS has stopped development on WMC a few years ago and MS has also just ended the internet tv portion of WMC in September. So the way WMC is going it does not look like it has a good future. Even Ceton dropped the development of the Q which I was interested in.
post #26224 of 29213
http://www.fiercecable.com/?utm_medium=nl&utm_source=internal .

Comcast (Nasdaq: CMCSA) is preparing to launch an Xfinity TV application for flash-enabled connected TVs manufactured by Samsung that will allow subscribers to navigate cable programming without using a set-top, a spokesman told FierceCable.

The nation's largest cable MSO is also talking to other consumer electronics manufacturers about delivering programming to connected TVs, the Comcast spokesman said. "Our priority is to get the experience right, to launch initially with Samsung, and go from there," he added.

I wonder if Sony will come out with a flash-enabled DHG.
post #26225 of 29213
Not sure if you guys have seen Rovi's Facebook response

Rovi - this is Peggy Gartin, and I manage social media for Rovi. I understand your disappointment (and that of others who have posted) at the ending of the TVGOS service. I’m not able to point you to another company that provides a similar over-the-air service, because I’m simply not aware of any. The market reality is that it has just become very difficult to provide such a service due to the changes we've seen in the industry in recent months.

Given that the decision has already been made, and as Po pointed out, the OTA service provider's equipment has already been returned, I think you should expect that the decision won't be reversed. Instead, I recommend you plan to get your guide info by connecting your TV to the Internet. Jill, I'm pleased to tell you that most connected Sony Bravia TV models do have the capability to get listings data over the Internet, though it does require you to have an internet connection, for which there may be associated costs.

I realize that this means you'll have to deal with a sudden change in how you choose which TV shows to watch, and on behalf of Rovi, I really do apologize for this inconvenience. We're in business to connect people and entertainment. If I can help you with recommendations for a service in your area that you can switch to, please let me know.

A question to Peggy Gartin.

Mark Fontana- Peggy, could you pass along the suggestion that Rovi publish specifications of the V7, V8 and V9 TVGOS packet stream, before the knowledge is lost forever, so that developers in the open source community might save some affected equipment from being bricked by adapting alternative EPG sources? Hopefully this could be done without jeopardizing the security of V10+ and would be a definite gesture of goodwill.

The Answer

Rovi- Thanks, Mark. I don't know if what you suggest is a viable option, but I'll certainly pass along your suggestion to the technical team and see what they say.
post #26226 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Jill, I'm pleased to tell you that most connected Sony Bravia TV models do have the capability to get listings data over the Internet, though it does require you to have an internet connection, for which there may be associated costs.

I sure hope that Sony will indeed provide me with a firmware update to my Bravia XBR6 TV model, so that its TVGOS can start to use the available internet connection instead of its current OTA connection.
post #26227 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltA View Post

I sure hope that Sony will indeed provide me with a firmware update to my Bravia XBR6 TV model, so that its TVGOS can start to use the available internet connection instead of its current OTA connection.

Have you counted the things that are wrong with that stupid response from Rovi? I'm not sure who/what writes that stuff.
post #26228 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

Not sure if you guys have seen Rovi's Facebook response
A question to Peggy Gartin.
Mark Fontana- Peggy, could you pass along the suggestion that Rovi publish specifications of the V7, V8 and V9 TVGOS packet stream, before the knowledge is lost forever, so that developers in the open source community might save some affected equipment from being bricked by adapting alternative EPG sources? Hopefully this could be done without jeopardizing the security of V10+ and would be a definite gesture of goodwill.
The Answer
Rovi- Thanks, Mark. I don't know if what you suggest is a viable option, but I'll certainly pass along your suggestion to the technical team and see what they say.

I remember the name Mark Fontana from waaaaaay back in this thread. I believe he had been involved with an (unsuccessful) attempt to replace hard drives in the DHG's. I wish him luck with his attempt to get the TVGOS specs . . .
post #26229 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

Have you counted the things that are wrong with that stupid response from Rovi? I'm not sure who/what writes that stuff.

I thought it was very much to the point:

TVGOS is gone, too bad so sad. Good luck finding something to replace it.

Love,
Rovi

wink.gif
post #26230 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

Have you counted the things that are wrong with that stupid response from Rovi? I'm not sure who/what writes that stuff.

I am surprised that anyone from Rovi would publicly post such. Possibly they have already been told that their job will disappear with TVGOS.
post #26231 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltA View Post

I am surprised that anyone from Rovi would publicly post such. Possibly they have already been told that their job will disappear with TVGOS.

The Rovi person is "Peggy"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRLwKw9up3s
post #26232 of 29213
Good work getting a reply from the mothership.....Rovi is like the police. Most "customers" don't want the "service" provided.

/tinfoil hat

My tinfoil hat says that the content providers are happy to clear up this one loose end....an HD DVR without individual kill switch from cable/sat/Tivo provider. (note Tivo won't run, even lifetime, and OTA only, without a hookup) Of course, they live in a world where content isn't ripped the second it is released....it's only the rest of us who have to deal with the HDMI/HDCP nonsense (why can't I switch through my TV and still get 5.1 sound ?...why do I have to buy a new AVR ? Why does box A not play nice with box B ? Where'd my record in connection go ?).
/tinfoil hat

In the real world, my teen and her friends can find you just about anything...US copyright ends at the border, and there's a lot of world out there that doesn't care about US anything....I was in Mexico City and saw every single computer program you can imagine for $5 (before negotiation) at the local marketplace....likewise new release movies and games.

On a more practical note, NTSC modulators were trivial to buy before transition, but I can't find any ATSC modulators that aren't professional grade and price....a cheap ATSC modulator would end-run the whole "protected path" nonsense we have to put up with rolleyes.gif

Without this ATSC source, or Rovi/Sony allowing the USB port to activate, even with the source code you can't do much. Sony could end this quickly with just a clockset screen, just like they provided for Digital TVGOS with the .21 firmware.
Edited by speedlaw - 1/4/13 at 6:28am
post #26233 of 29213
AT&T has a device that the customer can buy that connects to the internet and creates a "mini" cell site right in your own home or building for customers that are out-of-range of their towers, so there is no reason that a channel 3 or 4 analog modulator/converter cannot be made (by Rovi) to go from the internet (ethernet or wireless) to provide TVGOS data back into ALL brands of TV's & DVR's without ANY modification to the old units. This could set the clock and give us back our TV guide. I would not mind paying a little to save my 4 Sony DVR's.
Edited by ACSWIRELESS - 1/4/13 at 9:29am
post #26234 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACSWIRELESS View Post

AT&T has a device that the customer can buy that connects to the internet and creates a "mini" cell site right in your own home or building for customers that are out-of-range of their towers, so there is no reason that a channel 3 or 4 analog modulator/converter cannot be made to go from the internet (ethernet or wireless) to provide TVGOS data back into ALL brands of TV's & DVR's without ANY modification to the old units. This could set the clock and give us back our TV guide. I would not mind paying a little to save my 4 Sony DVR's.
From where does the data come from that the DHG can understand? It barely understands Rovi now.
post #26235 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

Well, you could monitor it for 7 days. Or you could check day 8 for listings now.

The ads turned back on, must of been a glitch.
post #26236 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

From where does the data come from that the DHG can understand? It barely understands Rovi now.

Rovi is providing this TVGOS guide information data VIA the internet right now for new TV's, so why can't a converter be made by Rovi that would take that same internet data and "spit-it-out" as a analog channel 3/4 signal as a way to insert it back into our DHG and other devices. We know that there is a way to insert the data without ANY modifications to the DHG, as many of us have taken analog recordings of the PBS or CBS signal and played it back into our DHG by-way-of a simple analog channel 3/4 RF output signal from our VHS recorder into the antenna input of our Sony.

I realize that Rovi most likely doesn't want to help us, but they could save face, make a good jester, and maybe make some money as there are a lot of TV and DVR owners that would buy a device to preserve their $800 to $1000 DVR that other than not having a guide or time, is working great. (and some of us have 3+ devices that we would like to save)

I would pay a little to save a lot...
Edited by ACSWIRELESS - 1/4/13 at 9:25am
post #26237 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACSWIRELESS View Post

Rovi is providing this TVGOS guide information data VIA the internet right now for new TV's, so why can't a converter be made by Rovi that would take that same internet data and "spit-it-out" as a analog channel 3/4 signal as a way to insert it back into our DHG and other devices. We know that there is a way to insert the data without ANY modifications to the DHG, as many of us have taken analog recordings of the PBS or CBS signal and played it back into our DHG by-way-of a simple analog channel 3/4 RF output signal from our VHS recorder into the antenna input of our Sony.
I realize that Rovi most likely doesn't want to help us, but they could save face, make a good jester, and maybe make some money as there are a lot of TV and DVR owners that would buy a device to preserve their $800 to $1000 DVR that is otherwise working great. (and some of us have 3+ devices that we would like to save)
I would pay a little to save a lot...
I have used a VCR to rebuild a DHG from scratch to full listings. Wrong clock of course. I have three units.

My TV, Sony 32EX700, has TVGOS V10. It's a 24 hour guide. Anyone with a TVGOS internet guide over 1 day may update this thread at anytime. I would love to get a clock signal on channel 2 to 13. But I can't imagine a world where that happens.
post #26238 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

I have used a VCR to rebuild a DHG from scratch to full listings. Wrong clock of course. I have three units.
My TV, Sony 32EX700, has TVGOS V10. It's a 24 hour guide. Anyone with a TVGOS internet guide over 1 day may update this thread at anytime. I would love to get a clock signal on channel 2 to 13. But I can't imagine a world where that happens.

I would be happy with 24 hours and a clock, better than nothing...

Does the internet TVGOS V10 set the clock on your Sony 32EX700?
post #26239 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACSWIRELESS View Post

I would be happy with 24 hours and a clock, better than nothing...
Does the internet TVGOS V10 set your clockon your Sony 32EX700?

It sets the clock even if I disable it and let the TV try to find PSIP data. I have none though. The internet clock is exact; the TVGOS clock on my feed is 6 - 8 seconds slow. I also would be happy with just a clock. Tapes can set the clock, but they also set the date. That makes day-of-week harder. Luckily manual recordings don't display DOW, only date.
post #26240 of 29213
If you play the tape with TVGOS data on it into the Sony 32EX700's antenna input with no outside antenna or cable tv connected, will the clock set, and will you get a 1 day listing from the tape?
(I know the time and listing will be wrong, but will the TV accept the data from the tape?)
post #26241 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACSWIRELESS View Post

If you play the tape with TVGOS data on it into the Sony 32EX700's antenna input with no outside antenna or cable tv connected, will the clock set, and will you get a 1 day listing from the tape?
(I know the time and listing will be wrong, but will the TV accept the data from the tape?)
For the DHG:
If your VCR does not strip the VBI, which may happen on some digital machines. My digital JVC and Mitsubishi decks strip the data. I'm using an older Mits deck - circa 1985. You can get more than one day of listings, which are wrong. You get the lineup from when you made the tapes, like the clock. Oddly, I found that tapes would only work on the cable input. I was using .21 firmware. I've made a post on this and observations of what to see when you disconnect the RF from the DHG. I'm cable only with legacy data, so your results may be different.

I hope data lasts until 3/10 to get the next (last) DST transition. I also have a theory that the inserter will send the clock even if Rovi stops the listings. Time will see if I am right.

For the TV:
I could try to feed V8 data into my TV and see if the clock is the same. If I can find my long rf cable I may try that. Scratch that. I have V8 data feeding the TV and when I select "broadcaster" instead of "TV Guide" as a program source it does not set the clock. I can only do a manual clock set this way also. If I select OTA for the TV Guide source nothing is received. I would conclude that V8 data is ignored by the TV.
Edited by JoeKustra - 1/4/13 at 10:44am
post #26242 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post


I hope data lasts until 3/10 to get the next (last) DST transition. I also have a theory that the inserter will send the clock even if Rovi stops the listings. Time will see if I am right.

We lost everything in November 2012 including the Clock when Rovi requested that our PBS station in Fort Wayne, IN send everything back including the inserter.
Edited by ACSWIRELESS - 1/4/13 at 11:25am
post #26243 of 29213
You can bet Rovi also plans to kill off free V10 TVGOS over the Internet at the earliest opportunity. The bean counters seem to have decided that subscription models are the way forward. The firmware they provide for integration into new CE products would include a UI for managing the subscription service, and perhaps by contract with the CE manufacturer, they could arrange to disable not just the guide but also core features of the product (TiVo style) unless end users pay up on a recurring basis.

Releasing a box to transcode the subscription guide for older equipment seems unlikely. Estimating the number of units they could sell would be very difficult. How would they advertise such a product? Relying on word of mouth isn't going to fly with Marketing. Helping people get more years out of existing equipment wouldn't please their CE partners.
post #26244 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by dp70 View Post

You can bet Rovi also plans to kill off free V10 TVGOS over the Internet at the earliest opportunity. The bean counters seem to have decided that subscription models are the way forward. The firmware they provide for integration into new CE products would include a UI for managing the subscription service, and perhaps by contract with the CE manufacturer, they could arrange to disable not just the guide but also core features of the product (TiVo style) unless end users pay up on a recurring basis.
Releasing a box to transcode the subscription guide for older equipment seems unlikely. Estimating the number of units they could sell would be very difficult. How would they advertise such a product? Relying on word of mouth isn't going to fly with Marketing. Helping people get more years out of existing equipment wouldn't please their CE partners.

Your speculation has much merit. I normally do not enable the TV Guide as a program source on the TV even though I can map the clear QAM channels like the DHG. The TV supports labels on channels, and I only have a dozen favorites anyhow. Sony still sends out updates for the TV even though it has been discontinued for two years. Not everything they do is stupid.

I have ample ads on the V10 TV, yet the DHG is still without its doomsday message.

But speaking of Sony and my TV: from the TV support web page.
>>>>
The TV Guide On Screen system is a third-party service provided by the Rovi® Corporation and is available on some Sony® TVs and digital recording products.

Currently the data for the Guide is sent by way of over-the-air and cable broadcast transmissions, and through an Internet connection to compatible devices.

Starting on November 1, 2012 the Rovi Corporation will start discontinuing the broadcast transmission of data from all US locations and will complete that process by April 2013 . Once the broadcast transmission ends in a location, the TV Guide On Screen service will be available only to devices that are Internet update capable and are connected to an active network connection.

NOTES:
Not all Sony products are supplied with the ability to receive TV Guide On Screen updates through an active Internet connection. To see if your product has the ability to receive TV Guide On Screen updates through an active Internet connection, check the specifications, which are available through the Manuals/Specs/Warranty link on this page.
There is no technical fix to re-enable the TV Guide On Screen service for the products that are not capable of receiving updates via the Internet. The change is as a result of the decision of the Rovi Corporation to discontinue the over-the-air and cable broadcast transmission and not a service issue with the product itself.
<<<<
Edited by JoeKustra - 1/4/13 at 11:54am
post #26245 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

The Rovi person is "Peggy"?

From the posting that started this tangent, yes, Peggy Gartin, social media manager for Rovi.
post #26246 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

I also have a theory that the inserter will send the clock even if Rovi stops the listings. Time will see if I am right.

And if the inserter isn't returned back to Rovi.
post #26247 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltA View Post

And if the inserter isn't returned back to Rovi.
I'm trying to bribe my cable headend boss.
post #26248 of 29213
Rovi probably wants them back to 1) have them destroyed for the tax writeoff and 2) ensure none wander off to be reverse-engineered.
post #26249 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by dp70 View Post

Rovi probably wants them back to 1) have them destroyed for the tax writeoff and 2) ensure none wander off to be reverse-engineered.
Please, don't crush my dreams.wink.gif
post #26250 of 29213
Does there exist any technical information on the TVGuide stream specification which has been reverse engineered over the last ~10 years?
Is there a central repository somewhere with the community information or even private individuals whom may have significant insight/knowledge into how this bloody proprietary system operates?
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