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Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 880

post #26371 of 28401
1/17/13 at 2:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by izzy900 View Post

I do own a Sony Bravia 32XBR6 HDTV with just cable and I still have a channel lineup with no listings! but I figure on a power outage that one will be a brick on the TVGOS. Don't want to pull the plug on that one! Just for the ease of surfing.
You are right.

I have a 32EX700 with internet TVGOS. I would buy a 32EX720 if I could find one. I never enable the TVGOS on the TV though. It's been three years since my TV was discontinued yet Sony still does updates. Go figure.

BTW, I had 6 power outages in 2012. I also have everything on a UPS.
Edited by JoeKustra - 1/17/13 at 3:37pm
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post #26372 of 28401
1/17/13 at 3:14pm
nope....we are dead in nyc.
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post #26373 of 28401
1/17/13 at 3:35pm
False alarm on TVGOS in DFW. One of my DVRs has lost TVGOS past next Tuesday which I thought was the end. Later checked my other DVR in the bedroom, it still has out a full week of listing info. Something got glitched up in DVR #1...
Edited by ed_in_tx - 1/18/13 at 5:12am
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post #26374 of 28401
1/17/13 at 3:48pm
Actually, if ROVI will publish they packet's structures with all flags meaning, I would say it would doable to create TVGOS gateway between say Zap2It/Titan/etc Internet web sites and OTA station network; it would be just industrial type of PC what suppose to run 24/7/365 and custom software.

My short experience with parsing TVGOS stream does tell me that. [ Timestamps (thanks Mark) and pictures parsing was the easiest part wink.gif ]

Perhaps use Kickstart for such project ? To pay for TVGOS documentation to ROVI and SW development.
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post #26375 of 28401
1/17/13 at 4:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

It occurs to me that there may be a difference in the appearance of the Grid after a Reset, depending on whether a CableCard is installed or not. My CableCards are currently in my TiVo's and my Mits TV, not in my DHG's.

New Working Theory (not fact, just my current best guess):
When the DHG without a CableCard is reset it loses its Channel Lineup (the Y-axis of the Grid) until it downloads it again via TVGOS. When the DHG with a CableCard is reset, the Channel Lineup is provided by the CableCard and the Y-axis of the Grid is immediately created. In both cases, the X-axis of the Grid is simply "Time" blocks in half-hour increments, until whatever time the Listings appear. I can easily check this out later this evening.

Edit: I've thrown cold water on this theory in the past hour . . .

Possumgirl.. yes, the "No Data for This Screen" screen is something like "deep plum", not black as I said previously. smile.gif

This picture is after a Front Panel Reset without a CableCard installed:


This picture is after a Front Panel Reset with a CableCard installed:


As is plain to see, there is no Grid (i.e. no Channel List vertically and no Time segments horizontally) in either photo. So my short-lived theory as proposed in the quoted post is kaput . . . biggrin.gif

I cannot explain why dizzy9000 can do multiple Front Panel Resets without losing the Grid. confused.gif
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post #26376 of 28401
1/17/13 at 4:03pm
Here's an analogy to what ROVI is,
True story.
My friend owns pigeons about 100 of them. All of a sudden something was killing off his pigeons in the coop a few at a time! He set traps but could not catch the critter. Finally after all his pigeons were dead he found the culprit! A WEASEL that had a family to feed!
We are the pigeons in the TVGOS coop Rovi is the weasel killing us off one at a time, cause to them our brand of TVGOS is not profitable! Till finally our DVRs a just bricks and dead like those pigeons!
True story!
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post #26377 of 28401
1/17/13 at 4:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post


I cannot explain why dizzy9000 can do multiple Front Panel Resets without losing the Grid. confused.gif

So can I. Life's not fair.
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post #26378 of 28401
1/17/13 at 4:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

Possumgirl.. yes, the "No Data for This Screen" screen is something like "deep plum", not black as I said previously. smile.gif

This picture is after a Front Panel Reset without a CableCard installed:


This picture is after a Front Panel Reset with a CableCard installed:


As is plain to see, there is no Grid (i.e. no Channel List vertically and no Time segments horizontally) in either photo. So my short-lived theory as proposed in the quoted post is kaput . . . biggrin.gif

I cannot explain why dizzy9000 can do multiple Front Panel Resets without losing the Grid. confused.gif

Looks to me like what I will be seeing if I did a total reset of my dvr with channels erased so that a grid would not be possible!
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post #26379 of 28401
1/17/13 at 5:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by izzy900 View Post

Looks to me like what I will be seeing if I did a total reset of my dvr with channels erased so that a grid would not be possible!

It shows exactly what you're gonna end up with one of these days when you do that Front Panel Reset ! eek.gif
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post #26380 of 28401
1/17/13 at 5:48pm
I don't think you have to necessarily do a front panel reset. A couple of weeks ago when I first lost TVGOS, as fate would have it, within a day or two I had a power outage. I powered the DHG up and noticed that the time was off (of course) and it was something like 9:40. I started doing reprogramming of manual recordings and wouldn't you know it, the machine locked up and reset on its own. Interestingly enough, when it came back on, the time was once again 9:40. A few hours later, (this was REALLY a ****** night) the machine locked up again, and I was forced to unplug it to get it working, and sure enough...the time was 9:40.

So all I'm saying is that I think you can do Izzy's formula to adjust the clock, but just substitute FPR for a power cycle. At this point, it doesn't hurt to try.
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post #26381 of 28401
1/17/13 at 8:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

Possumgirl.. yes, the "No Data for This Screen" screen is something like "deep plum", not black as I said previously. smile.gif

This picture is after a Front Panel Reset without a CableCard installed:

This picture is after a Front Panel Reset with a CableCard installed:

As is plain to see, there is no Grid (i.e. no Channel List vertically and no Time segments horizontally) in either photo. So my short-lived theory as proposed in the quoted post is kaput . . . biggrin.gif

I cannot explain why dizzy9000 can do multiple Front Panel Resets without losing the Grid. confused.gif

Maybe I can shed some light on this (or add more confusion). Was there an antenna connected to those DHGs when you reset them? Here is why I ask. I just finished trying izzy900's routine. To simulate his environment, I disconnected the antenna before I started (no TVGOS data). I did the front panel reset, and then turned on the DHG, and noted the time. The grid was still there. Then I turned off the DHG, and did the second front panel reset, fully expecting it to blow away the grid. To my surprise the grid was still intact. Over the next hour I repeated his procedure two more times (six resets total), and the grid survived every one of them. eek.gif

So what changed? The only thing I can think of, is that I "turned off" the data before I started. I think the digital TVGOS engine runs all the time decoding and writing data into memory. It does this as long as there is data available. When you do a front panel reset, I think the digital engine basically crashes. Writing data where it shouldn't, which can cause the whole TVGOS system to self destruct. By turning off the data before doing the front panel reset, I think the digital TVGOS engine goes into idle mode (it stops processing, and writing TVGOS data into memory). The front panel reset may still cause the digital engine to crash, but since it isn't actively writing data into memory, it doesn't do as much damage. I still think it is a matter of time though before the front panel reset wipes out the grid.

Mark
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post #26382 of 28401
1/18/13 at 4:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Maybe I can shed some light on this (or add more confusion). Was there an antenna connected to those DHGs when you reset them? Here is why I ask. I just finished trying izzy900's routine. To simulate his environment, I disconnected the antenna before I started (no TVGOS data). I did the front panel reset, and then turned on the DHG, and noted the time. The grid was still there. Then I turned off the DHG, and did the second front panel reset, fully expecting it to blow away the grid. To my surprise the grid was still intact. Over the next hour I repeated his procedure two more times (six resets total), and the grid survived every one of them. eek.gif

So what changed? The only thing I can think of, is that I "turned off" the data before I started. I think the digital TVGOS engine runs all the time decoding and writing data into memory. It does this as long as there is data available. When you do a front panel reset, I think the digital engine basically crashes. Writing data where it shouldn't, which can cause the whole TVGOS system to self destruct. By turning off the data before doing the front panel reset, I think the digital TVGOS engine goes into idle mode (it stops processing, and writing TVGOS data into memory). The front panel reset may still cause the digital engine to crash, but since it isn't actively writing data into memory, it doesn't do as much damage. I still think it is a matter of time though before the front panel reset wipes out the grid.

Mark

I agree. I removed the cable rf before doing anything and left it off. It would explain why multiple power cycles did not change the initial wrong time.
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post #26383 of 28401
1/18/13 at 5:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Maybe I can shed some light on this (or add more confusion). Was there an antenna connected to those DHGs when you reset them?

Antenna? No
Cable? Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

By turning off the data before doing the front panel reset, I think the digital TVGOS engine goes into idle mode (it stops processing, and writing TVGOS data into memory). The front panel reset may still cause the digital engine to crash, but since it isn't actively writing data into memory, it doesn't do as much damage. I still think it is a matter of time though before the front panel reset wipes out the grid.

This is kind of like what I crudely suggested here, being that maybe the DHG acts differently when there is no TVGOS data available . . .

In any case last night I did have the Cable line connected, but there is no more TVGOS being broadcast in my area since December 6th. frown.gif
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post #26384 of 28401
1/18/13 at 5:15am
I just had a scare...and now don't know how to explain how I was saved.

TVGOS has been out in Chicago for about a week and a half. (Last listings were early Tuesday morning) I've purchased a TiVo HD XL off of eBay and it won't be here until Monday. So, I'm walking on eggshells with the family. (OTA only and they have become very dependent on the guide and easy recording capabilities) And then the worse thing imaginable happened...A POWER OUTAGE! After over 10 years in this house and never a power hick-up, the power went down for over 2 hours. I figured all was lost. No grid, no clock, lots of convoluted mathematics in order to set a manual recording. When the power came back on the Sony went through its "Welcome" boot. I left it "off" and observed that when done it had just dashes for a clock. I went to bed crushed.

BUT...This morning when I checked on my favorite toy, the clock was showing the correct time, there was a grid, and the day was correct. It looks like I may have dodged a bullet.
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post #26385 of 28401
1/18/13 at 5:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisS5 View Post

I just had a scare...and now don't know how to explain how I was saved.

TVGOS has been out in Chicago for about a week and a half. (Last listings were early Tuesday morning) I've purchased a TiVo HD XL off of eBay and it won't be here until Monday. So, I'm walking on eggshells with the family. (OTA only and they have become very dependent on the guide and easy recording capabilities) And then the worse thing imaginable happened...A POWER OUTAGE! After over 10 years in this house and never a power hick-up, the power went down for over 2 hours. I figured all was lost. No grid, no clock, lots of convoluted mathematics in order to set a manual recording. When the power came back on the Sony went through its "Welcome" boot. I left it "off" and observed that when done it had just dashes for a clock. I went to bed crushed.

BUT...This morning when I checked on my favorite toy, the clock was showing the correct time, there was a grid, and the day was correct. It looks like I may have dodged a bullet.
Using the 753... diagnostic, when was your LastClkSet? No listings doesn't always mean no clock data.

See:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/537711/sony-dhg-hdd250-500-official-thread/26280#post_22830576
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post #26386 of 28401
1/18/13 at 5:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

Using the 753... diagnostic, when was your LastClkSet? No listings doesn't always mean no clock data.

See:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/537711/sony-dhg-hdd250-500-official-thread/26280#post_22830576

Thanks for the location. smile.gif

Well that seems to explain a lot. The LastClkSet is: 1/18/13 13:06:15

So it looks like we have lost TVGOS in Chicago, but are still getting clock set data. confused.gif
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post #26387 of 28401
1/18/13 at 5:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

You're right. Even if only one reset kills me, I still have the tapes. I also believe only one reset is needed to stop clock updates. So shortened procedure:
FP reset
Pull power
Apply power
Check time - notate it
Pull power until notated time
Apply power at notated time
Live with very close clock, missing day, no FP call letters, and maybe red record button doesn't work.
Fini

Since I pulled the plug to adjust the time dozens of times over the years, I will add that you must factor-in the estimated cold boot time (between 1:30-1:45 minutes for me, IIRC) when you plug it in again. What I like about Izzy's method is not having to do that extra calculation. It is easier (and more accurate) to just hit the "on" button right when you want to bring back the frozen time.

But yes, the time is frozen with the plug pulled as well. Choose your weapon when the dark hour comes to a host channel near you...

- Kerry
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post #26388 of 28401
1/18/13 at 5:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KerryNY View Post


But yes, the time is frozen with the plug pulled as well. Choose your weapon when the dark hour comes to a host channel near you...

- Kerry
It's like waiting to see if your going to catch the flu. Every morning I check day 8 and hope it has listings. But no use fighting it, unless you want to anyhow.
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post #26389 of 28401
1/18/13 at 5:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisS5 View Post

Thanks for the location. smile.gif

Well that seems to explain a lot. The LastClkSet is: 1/18/13 13:06:15

So it looks like we have lost TVGOS in Chicago, but are still getting clock set data. confused.gif
There are at least two reasons for this. Your inserter may have bad data and needs a reset (good luck with that), or Rovi is no longer sending listings (or your inserter is no longer asking for them). Maybe that's three.
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post #26390 of 28401
1/18/13 at 5:53am
In my case I still seem to be getting clock sets for my V9 Mits, but no TVGOS data since 12/6. For the V8 DHG I get no data whatsoever . . .
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post #26391 of 28401
1/18/13 at 6:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

^^
And how would the timer or blaster know how long the show is that you want to record?

If the DHG has a blank grid, it's going to be broken into half-hour segments. To record a two hour show, you would have to start the recording 4 times, and each recording would be named "unknown" . . .

Default to no grid, don’t know if this will work. I will experiment after death.
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post #26392 of 28401
1/18/13 at 6:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOZOO View Post

Default to no grid, don’t know if this will work. I will experiment after death.
If you wish, death can be simulated by removing the rf. I have a cable BBS channel that is always "no listing". You can record it and pad up to +- 2 hours. The saved title will be "unknown". If you lose the lineup for some reason, you will need to do a manual recording where you set the times. Still "unknown".
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post #26393 of 28401
1/18/13 at 8:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

There are at least two reasons for this. Your inserter may have bad data and needs a reset (good luck with that), or Rovi is no longer sending listings (or your inserter is no longer asking for them). Maybe that's three.

I know that BillFromCH had reported the initial outage, and an engineer was checking on it. Have not heard if the engineer got anywhere with it. Soooo, I sent an email today noting the issue. Maybe we may be able to eek out a few more weeks here in Chicago.
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post #26394 of 28401
1/18/13 at 8:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisS5 View Post

And then the worse thing imaginable happened...A POWER OUTAGE!

I just upgraded my HT UPS, and I have a perfectly good APC Back-UPS that I would be glad to sell you. It has 75-Ohm in and out so your equipment is protected from an antenna lightning strike. Send me a PM and make an offer if interested. I'm just down the Burlington line.
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post #26395 of 28401
1/18/13 at 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisS5 View Post

I know that BillFromCH had reported the initial outage, and an engineer was checking on it. Have not heard if the engineer got anywhere with it. Soooo, I sent an email today noting the issue. Maybe we may be able to eek out a few more weeks here in Chicago.

Well, I got my reply. I had emailed that I was aware that the service was ending and had guessed that they had removed the inserter since I was no longer receiving listings. But that I was surprised to see that I was still getting the "ClockSet" signal. I asked that if the equipment was still installed, if they could check on it. Reply as follows:

We have not changed anything as we have just been the pass-through. Based on viewer comments it appears they have ended their feed. They have indicated that the information will be web based for those devices that can handle such data.
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post #26396 of 28401
1/18/13 at 11:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisS5 View Post

Well, I got my reply. I had emailed that I was aware that the service was ending and had guessed that they had removed the inserter since I was no longer receiving listings. But that I was surprised to see that I was still getting the "ClockSet" signal. I asked that if the equipment was still installed, if they could check on it. Reply as follows:

We have not changed anything as we have just been the pass-through. Based on viewer comments it appears they have ended their feed. They have indicated that the information will be web based for those devices that can handle such data.

That sounds political. Maybe he knows how to reset the inserter? Maybe he doesn't. Rovi has not ended their feed for everybody. To rephrase: we know it's not working since people who use it said so.
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post #26397 of 28401
1/18/13 at 11:14am
Some battles are not worth fighting. It appears that Rovi is still sending the data and that the blockage is with the equipment at WBBM. But even if they were to correct the issue, the service ends by April.
Edited by ChrisS5 - 1/18/13 at 12:35pm
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post #26398 of 28401
1/18/13 at 11:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisS5 View Post

Some battles are not work fighting. It appears that Rovi is still sending the data and that the blockage is with the equipment at WBBM. But even if they were to correct the issue, the service ends by April.
I understand. I guess it's time to move on. Very sad.
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post #26399 of 28401
1/18/13 at 11:33am
As I reported a couple of days ago, KCNC Denver listing data is gone. It has been gone for several days. I had a chance to look to see if any data was still flowing. No TVGOS packets. Based on host search data I saw, I lost KCNC as a host channel on the 10th or so.

Somewhat similar to what folks in Chicago are seeing, it appears that clock data is still being sent, at least sporadically. My last clock set was at approximately 8pm on January 16.

I'll put a post in the Denver OTA thread to see if anybody has an engineering contact, but I'm not hopeful at this point...

Edit to add:
I just sent an email to the Chief Engineer at KCNC to try to find out what's going on, and will report back if/what I hear...
Edited by bretski - 1/18/13 at 3:23pm
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post #26400 of 28401
1/18/13 at 3:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

If you wish, death can be simulated by removing the rf. I have a cable BBS channel that is always "no listing". You can record it and pad up to +- 2 hours. The saved title will be "unknown". If you lose the lineup for some reason, you will need to do a manual recording where you set the times. Still "unknown".

I lost the tuning ability this morning on my dvr, no channels no signal but still had the grid. I figured I would try to resolve it this evening when I got home from work. The clock was still giving the correct time so I was in a quandary, do I do the front panel reset or unplug the unit? I chose to do the front panel reset again to get my tuner working and getting my channels! well this time after the reset as soon as I saw the 4 dashes I powered the unit up, and left it at 5 minutes late on the clock! If I have a power outage I will again do the reset I posted on page 878!
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