Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 928

Touche Mon Frere! And Graphic in Nature too! Who Knew?....

Needs garlic.

I lost my TVGOS data today.

Yea, I knew it was going to happen.

Ah well, it was a good ride and nothing can last forever. Though, I still feel pretty betrayed by Sony.

From your post in the TVGOS thread, you indicated a black screen. That's not a normal way to "lose" TVGOS. It might indicate you received some bad data and your DHG did a reset. You also said "cable card" which usually means the lineup will always be there. One way to be sure is to check for a [3] after the time on the 753... diag screen. If it's a [2] you have no data.

I might as well make it official that at 11:37:34PM the last ever TVGOS clock set occured as at midnight the TVGOS servers went offline for ever. From my understanding the analog inserters that Rovi installed in all of the Service Electric headends were the last to be shutdown. I noticed last night before I went to bed that the data had stopped even though my inserter is still running. I checked my upstairs Pioneer Kuro with V9 this morning and I noted the last clock set which indicated the last time data came in from Rovi. The last listings download happened for me on Wedneday morning at 2:37am. Next Thursday at 3:30am will be the last of the TVGOS listings for me. As I promised I will call the supervisor of my cable company on monday morning to inform him that the data stopped so they can shut off and disconnect the inserter and then restore the analog host channel back to digital for the cablecard lineup.

This is a bittersweet moment for me as I have been using TVGOS non stop since it started in the mid to late 1990's. I have had 6 devices with TVGOS embedded in it, 3 RCA TVs, 1 Sony DHG, and 2 Pioneer TVs. My original 36 inch analog Home Theater RCA TV that I bought in 1997 and has the original version of TVGOS is still in use and TVGOS was working on it to the bitter end. I gave this TV to my elderly neighbor in 2005 as I just got my first RCA HDTV DLP which had V8 TVGOS. I just gave Joe Kustra the DHG yesterday afternoon as I did not want it anymore. My two V9 TVGOS Kuros are still in use.
The original host stations were the ABC stations and then they switched to PBS around 2000 and that lasted until the analog shutdown. I never really had any data issues until the change over to digital occured. The big issue in my DMA was none of the stations wanted the digital TVGOS inserter, especially Nexstar who owns the CBS and NBC affiliates in my market. It was at this point that Service Electric worked with Rovi and at least provided their customers with the service through the use of the old analog inserters. It did require some modifications to equipment in the headends but the Service Electric and Rovi engineers figured it out and got it working. Service Electric did this free of charge to Rovi and their customers and for that I am extremely greatfull. Ironically a Rovi engineer told me last fall that Service Electric was the most cooperative with Rovi even though they never had any obligation to carry the TVGOS service.

I do not know what direction I will take as I understand that my cable company is testing a 6 tuner DVR for their system with a new guide. Since I own my two cablecards and I no longer have any guide service on my Pioneer TVs I may buy two Tivo Premeire 4s or just leave them in the Pioneers and get my cable companies new whole home system when it becomes available. Decisions, Decisions, Decisions.

Below is the output screen on the DHG-HDD250, no cable card, Firmware V1.02.21 and ZIP set to 48322:

What I find interesting is the FP clock and TVG clock are exactly 4 hours slow (9:00) from the Last Probe 3/23/2013 13:00:00 or Tx Pkt Time of 3/23/2013 13:00:00. I recorded this data at 1:00 PM today and that was the actual time, within a few seconds. Where is the DHG getting this information from? Strange...

Could anyone explain whats going on? Is the DHG capturing XDS data?

3/23/2013 13:00 [2]...........................Section Comm-Serial

GL State...............................................No Device
Baud........................................................115k
Com Port.......................................................1
Alt Port.......................................................2
Last Probe...................................3/23/2013 13:00:00
Tx Num Pkts................................................87802
Tx Num Bytes..............................................603160
Tx Pkt Time..................................3/23/2013 13:00:00
Tx Restarts....................................................0
Tx Errs........................................................0
Tx Err Code....................................................0
Tx Err Time..................................................N/A
Rx Num Pkts....................................................0
Rx Num Bytes...................................................0
Rx Pkt Time..................................................N/A
Rx XSum Errs...................................................0
Rx XSum Time.................................................N/A
Rx EOP Errs....................................................0
Rx EOP Time..................................................N/A

That screen has no relevance to TVGOS data. You have to page down to the VBI Info screen and at the bottom of the left column will tell you the last clock set. If your guide has not been reset there will be a time and date there.

The serial port data has always been there and there is mention of it in the DHG hardware thread. If you have an accurate clock don't do anything. In a few weeks you will probably get some bad data and be back with a clock that is 2+ hours slow. If you are into hardware and have a terminal that works at 115k baud you can play with it. I trashed my Wyse 150 a while back. Wouldn't it be wild if there was usable data on the serial port that would let you set the clock?

I understand that. But where does the Last Probe (time) and the Tx Pkt Time (time) come from? Their times are right on the money, but the FP clock and TVG clock are off by 4 hours.

Volatile flash memory of the guide. Once the guide gets reset to its factory defaults that will be gone. The VBI info screen will tell you the last clock set from Rovi data. The guide only knows Rovi data and does not know anything else. Since Rovi data is gone for ever so is every thing the guide needs to function properly.

You might be right; however, this machine locked-up this past Monday (03/18/2013) and had to be unplugged. We haven't received TVGOS data since 02/12/2013. I only bring this up because maybe Sony could have another avenue to correct the clock fiasco.

BTW - what is "Volatile flash memory of the guide"? I thought flash is NON-Volatile or NOVRAM.

Two possibilities: incorrect use of NVRAM, or
When booting from a power cycle, the old static or dynamic RAM has not received any TVGOS data during the boot cycle or some location is not updated. That random data is used and hence we have the 2+ hour clock error. If I had the source code I could be sure. [joke] It would explain the 1/1/90 or 1/1/04 dates in the reset log. It reminds me of the dates 1/1/78 and 1/1/80.

Your loss of data to lockup time is almost the same as mine.

Anyone with a good clock check their LastClkSet time recently?

Sorry for the poor choice of words but the date and time are only stored in the guides temporary memory and if the guide is either reset to factory defaults by you or if it eventually does itself, that data will be lost forever as there will be no way for the guide to receive the data as that equipment now ceases to exist. The power cycles will not wash out this temporary data.

You have to remember that TVGOS software and data is the property of Rovi and not Sony. Sony would have to obtain permission from Rovi to alter the guide software to add a manual clock set and then do the manual recordings that utilize the TVGOS software that is embedded in the DHG. Sony could develop its own software that will allow a manual clock set and a manual recording with out using Rovis software. I do not see that happening with a discontinued 8 year old device. I also will remind everybody that the .21 software was released 4 years ago when the DHG was 4 years old. All the other version 8 devices, like my RCA DLP, never got the software update to work with digital so the DHG owners should be greatful that Sony did this back then.

I have been using TVGOS for about 15 years and I have accepted the fact that it is gone. I am now seriously thinking about Tivo but I also will have to accept the reality that Tivo can end its run too and then I will be stuck with another orphaned product that has no support. This is why I am considering using my cable company equipment because I can walk away at any time and not be stuck with outdated ot orphaned equipment. With all the bad news that have been steadily pouring out of the A/V industry I have become gun shy of buying anything at all, even including OPPO.

If today is truly the end of all TVGOS then we will have to remember it's been 50 years since the Beatles first album and 40 years since since Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon release. We're in good company.

SONY and Rovi disgust me. I owned six DHGs with six cable cards. I took them all off line in December 2012, which was prior to KHOU pulling the plug on TVGOS in Houston, TX. I replaced my machines with six TiVo boxes (two XL4; four Premiere 4) and forked over for lifetime service for each unit. I have spent tens of thousands on SONY gear throughout the years: an HDTV projector, DVRs, HDTVs, etc. However, I will not spend any more money with SONY. I guess those of us who have cast our lot with TiVo can now wait for that company to rip us off by eventually terminating our "lifetime service." I have enjoyed lurking on this thread for many years, but it has come to a sad, cruel end. SONY and Rovi disgust me. Oh yeah, I said that already.

If what I was told last fall panned out Service Electric inserters were the last to go so last night was the end for TVGOS. When I seen that WaltA was still getting data after the KYW inserter was removed, then I knew that Rovi was following through with this. The analog inserter at the lehigh valley Service Electric and KYW use the same server for the data. This is why WaltA seen the CBS ads on his devices. We were getting our data from the Wilkes Barre DMA server and since we never had a digital host station in the Wilkes Barre market we never seen the station ads. The only other thing is that they shut the whole state of Pennsylvania down at once and there maybe some other states to go but there had been a dip in people posting that their data stopped. If not then last night was it.

I hear "American Pie" playing in the background......

Hmmm ....

I guess I can't help but be amazed by, in today's every changing technology, how many folks feel "ripped off" by a product that provided 8 years of service with $0 in monthly fees.

Today I got the Artec out, and connected it to my Panasonic DMR-E95H. I tuned the Artec to each OTA station that I receive (including PBS, and CBS), and then ran the auto clock set function on each station. None of them set the clock on the DMR. The DMR reported a "clock set was incomplete" message after about a minute. Either there are no stations here still sending out the ATSC version of that XDS data, or my Artec can't recover that XDS info. I did turn on the closed captions (which is also transmitted as XDS data), and they worked ok, so I believe I don't have any stations sending out that time data. So my test was inconclusive. I'm pretty certain that the DHG can't use the XDS data since there is no screen on the DHG that allows you to initiate the auto clock setting feature.

I have also decided that I will probably take the DHG out of service in the next week or so. I was going to hold out as long as my clock was correct, but I haven't used the DHG since I got the TiVo at the end of last year. I have been using the DTVPal as the overflow for the TiVo, and since it still has a PSIP time & guide, it is more useful than the DHG can be at this point (at least all the recorded shows have the correct titles on the DTVPal).

Mark

TVGOS wasn't only used by the DHG. I have several other devices, including my Sony XBR6 television, it is only 4 years old. And yes, I expect a television to be supported for more than 4 years.

Has anyone successfully used the DTVpal converter box (the government subsidized digital-to-analog converter that created TVGOS data too) to successfully set the clock on their DHG ????

The DTVPal converter box, DTVPal DVR, and the Artec APR-T, (as well as equipment at some cable companies) could be put into a mode to utilize "legacy" data that was sent out by the Rovi inserter. These devices could convert the legacy data to analog and insert it into the VBI. Joe Kustra's DHGs (and maybe yours too) have always used this data exclusively, since he had no digital source for data. Since the inserters are all being removed this "legacy" data will be gone too.

Mark

And another answer would be (actually the same answer as Mark’s):


Yes, you would get a clock if the Rovi (TVGOS) data was still there (or at least an inserter).

No, It would be unlikely to get a clock with the TVGOS and inserter gone.


Update: We are currently going through process of getting a new roof; which will means a new antenna, which means the beginning stages of a new antenna distribution system (there is not one), which means if the inserter is still in place (or not?) for Dallas, then I may get out the Artec T model to see if I can at least get the next DST set in my Sony DVR, which means I might be able to keep the manual recording working for a year instead just the next 5 months.

I thought the DTVpal converter created its own TVGOS data, not making use of that provided by any Rovi inserters. It created the data out of the program info that is a normal part of most ATSC digital signals. That's why one has to set any TVGOS device to one of the "fake" zip codes, for it to use this fabricated TVGOS data.

The only downside of the DTVpal converters is that they only work with ATSC signals, not the QAM signals on cable systems. So, one would need local over-the-air signals for it to gather up the program info, which unfortunately, I don't really have.

This is the first time I've ever heard that. Maybe you dreamed it?

Have you checked your data lately to verify that the inserter is still in place? Someone on the DTVPal forum seems to think that the Dallas inserter was removed a week or so ago. They could be wrong though, since there is no easy way to tell that with the DTVPal.

I thought that DST was important too. Now that I have rebuilt (from tapes) I find that Day Of Week is much more important. Today I finished making my oldest unit servicable. The time and DOW are correct but the date is 1/20/13. So in two months I'll need to think about what path to follow. For now I must wait until June to see if I'm going to relocate. Tomorrow I should get an update from Jed1 to see if his inserter is still in place. I know he is getting no data but we are not sure why exactly. If his inserter is still in place then it needs something from Rovi to send clock data. We'll know more later.

Unfortunately that is not how it works. Rovi delivered the data that these devices used. I don't know of anyone who ever got the thing to work with those fake zip codes. You had to use your real zip code, or it did not work.