or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Recorders › Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 929

post #27841 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

This is the first time I've ever heard that. Maybe you dreamed it? wink.gif

I guess you don't know as much as you think you do.

I got a couple of these, back when the government was subsidizing DTV converters a while ago. They're sitting down in the basement.

Many of these DTV converters offered some kind of an on-screen program guide grid, as a feature. What made the DTVpal Plus unique, was that the program guide it created, was made available as TVGOS data. Check out the chapter in its User Guide entitled "TV Guide On Screen or Guide Plus Setup". There is also a table of "fake" zip codes, such as Denver CO is 00020, and Wilkes Barre PA is 00051.

Like I said, I never really played around with it. First, until a few days ago, I didn't have any need to create my own TVGOS. Second, I really don't have local over-the-air stations, and such is required since the DTVpal Plus converter only works with ATSC signals, not QAM signals.
post #27842 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltA View Post

I guess you don't know as much as you think you do.

I got a couple of these, back when the government was subsidizing DTV converters a while ago. They're sitting down in the basement.

Many of these DTV converters offered some kind of an on-screen program guide grid, as a feature. What made the DTVpal Plus unique, was that the program guide it created, was made available as TVGOS data. Check out the chapter in its User Guide entitled "TV Guide On Screen or Guide Plus Setup". There is also a table of "fake" zip codes, such as Denver CO is 00020, and Wilkes Barre PA is 00051.

Like I said, I never really played around with it. First, until a few days ago, I didn't have any need to create my own TVGOS. Second, I really don't have local over-the-air stations, and such is required since the DTVpal Plus converter only works with ATSC signals, not QAM signals.

Well then. I guess you've already answered your own question. So go ahead and hook the up to your DHG's and get the date and time and Listings. Problem Solved! smile.gif
post #27843 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Unfortunately that is not how it works. Rovi delivered the data that these devices used. I don't know of anyone who ever got the thing to work with those fake zip codes. You had to use your real zip code, or it did not work.

I would accept that these things didn't really work as they claimed.

However, I believe that if one had to use one's real zip code, that this is when you were still using the real Rovi data, not what the converter box was suppose to be creating.
post #27844 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

Well then. I guess you've already answered your own question. So go ahead and hook the up to your DHG's and get the date and time and Listings. Problem Solved! smile.gif

Nope. My only problem seems to be you, and that doesn't seem to be solved.

If you bothered to read my post, before making your snide comment, you would have noted that these need an over-the-air ATSC signals, which I don't have available in my area.
post #27845 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

I thought that DST was important too.
[...]

From my experiments yesterday, and what izzy900 reported earlier this week (that his DHG did the March DST change with (I believe) only base software 1.2.13, and no patches), I am wrong about the 08.06.44 patch being required to get the March/November DST change dates. That patch may be required if you have older firmware than 1.2.13. Looking at the dates on the files in the 1.2.13 zip file, they show a date of 12/2006. The new DST dates would already have been established by then, although the first new transition wouldn't have occurred until March of 2007. I remember seeing posts where people described their clock being off by an hour for awhile after resetting their DHG in March. The clock would usually correct itself in a few hours. My base (factory default) software is 1.2.13, so I don't have any way to test this with older firmware.
post #27846 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltA View Post

First, until a few days ago, I didn't have any need to create my own TVGOS.
Alas, the DTVPal CECB creates nothing. The only function of that TVGOS mode was to convert digital TVGOS legacy data (using SCTE 127 VBI-in-MPEG packets) to actual analog VBI and modulate that onto the appropriate VBI line of its analog output. That legacy data was inserted by exactly the same inserters that inserted the TVG1 packets that the DHG's decoded for guide data. That is why the DTVPal CECB needed to be (when in this mode) tuned via Scientific Atlanta IR remote codes to a valid TVGOS host channel to put out TVGOS VBI.

The DTVPal CECB had no knowledge of the format or meaning of the bits it was converting from digital to analog (and thus contained none of Rovi's intellectual property).
Edited by frank70 - 3/24/13 at 7:49am
post #27847 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

From my experiments yesterday, and what izzy900 reported earlier this week (that his DHG did the March DST change with (I believe) only base software 1.2.13, and no patches), I am wrong about the 08.06.44 patch being required to get the March/November DST change dates. That patch may be required if you have older firmware than 1.2.13. Looking at the dates on the files in the 1.2.13 zip file, they show a date of 12/2006. The new DST dates would already have been established by then, although the first new transition wouldn't have occurred until March of 2007. I remember seeing posts where people described their clock being off by an hour for awhile after resetting their DHG in March. The clock would usually correct itself in a few hours. My base (factory default) software is 1.2.13, so I don't have any way to test this with older firmware.
I have only one box with .13 base firmware. I put the issue down low on my priority list for now.

I have discovered that while a full lineup can be built using .13 firmware, I found that only my "host" channel displayed call letters after a rescan. I updated to .21 and all my channels have their call letters. Small issue. I also have no issue with recording my mapped HD channels with .21 either. As for DST, it would be more important if the *&^*# date was not part of the time data. I'm back to 3/10/13 now, but I have several "time set" tapes going back to 12/2012. I record, watch and delete on the DHG anyhow.
post #27848 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltA View Post

TVGOS wasn't only used by the DHG. I have several other devices, including my Sony XBR6 television, it is only 4 years old. And yes, I expect a television to be supported for more than 4 years.

You make a fair point. I have 2 televisions that support TVGOS as well, and one still does via Ethernet. However:

o This thread it titled "Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread" so my remarks pertained to that.
o I think we would all agree the functionality if the DHG is affected to a far greater extent that any televisions.

My only point was with regard to the term "rip off". I bought 2 of these back in 2005 and each were under $400. I got 90 months of guide data or about $4.50/month without considering the cost of the DVR. Am I disappointed that the guide is gone? Yes .. but I still feel that I got a decent value.
post #27849 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltA View Post

I would accept that these things didn't really work as they claimed.

However, I believe that if one had to use one's real zip code, that this is when you were still using the real Rovi data, not what the converter box was suppose to be creating.

The problem with entering a special zip code was that no TVGOS device would accept those special codes as valid zip codes. Since the idea was that using those special codes gives you special data, it would indicate that the code would have to be entered into the DTVPal/Artec, not the TVGOS device, and there was no way to do that. Another issue with these devices creating their own TVGOS was that since each station sends its own PSIP data, the devices would have to perpetually scan each station to keep the guide updated, but the device is strictly tuned to your host channel 24/7, so there would be no way for it to work as you described.
post #27850 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac24 View Post

You make a fair point. I have 2 televisions that support TVGOS as well, and one still does via Ethernet. However:

o This thread it titled "Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread" so my remarks pertained to that.
o I think we would all agree the functionality if the DHG is affected to a far greater extent that any televisions.

My only point was with regard to the term "rip off". I bought 2 of these back in 2005 and each were under $400. I got 90 months of guide data or about $4.50/month without considering the cost of the DVR. Am I disappointed that the guide is gone? Yes .. but I still feel that I got a decent value.
I can get TVGOS V10 on my Sony 32EX700 TV. If I do, it tends to cause the TV to stop working after a few weeks. So I did a factory reset last week and I don't think I will turn it on again. While the TV has had several firmware updates and internet options added, the same version and subversion of TVGOS hasn't changed. For trivia:
XBR6 thread starts 9/08
XBR9 thread starts 2/09
EX700 thread starts 2/10
Sony was doing a new product much more frequently in the past. With the future of BB uncertain and the prices of Amazon increasing, it's getting harder to find a good TV for a good price.
post #27851 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Have you checked your data lately to verify that the inserter is still in place? Someone on the DTVPal forum seems to think that the Dallas inserter was removed a week or so ago. They could be wrong though, since there is no easy way to tell that with the DTVPal.

Yes Sir, just checked this Sunday morning. It is has PID, and clock sets, and a NumSearch 10 was started late Friday. Still only reaches 0xc68
post #27852 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

I thought that DST was important too............. .

The real reason DST is important to me, is because I am so lazy. If I can't get the DHG to run with correct clock with no work by me; then I will most likely give up on it. So far I still have correct Date and Time, so manual recordings are fine and dandy - for now.

My real focus is this OLD house, it is like pre-historic and the repairs/updates are murder. I just "thought" our old house in Houston was old. I never knew I had it so good, till we got to this house.

Seriously, the 100 AMP panel service from the breaker will not even let me hook up the Denon. I thought there was a law that 250 AMP service was the minimum? Oh well.

Anyway, back the DST thingy. I still sort of think I could get the next DST corrected hooking up the Artec T
post #27853 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

Yes Sir, just checked this Sunday morning. It is has PID, and clock sets, and a NumSearch 10 was started late Friday. Still only reaches 0xc68
Late Friday was when everything stopped here. Should you get another clock set I would love to know. Thanks.
post #27854 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

I can get TVGOS V10 on my Sony 32EX700 TV. If I do, it tends to cause the TV to stop working after a few weeks. So I did a factory reset last week and I don't think I will turn it on again. While the TV has had several firmware updates and internet options added, the same version and subversion of TVGOS hasn't changed. For trivia:
XBR6 thread starts 9/08
XBR9 thread starts 2/09
EX700 thread starts 2/10
Sony was doing a new product much more frequently in the past. With the future of BB uncertain and the prices of Amazon increasing, it's getting harder to find a good TV for a good price.

Interesting. I have no such problem on my 55HX800, but if I did I'd do the same as you. The guide has 3 major issue:

o No QAM cable channels listings (this is big).
o Cumbersome to navigate.
o Using a smartphone app is easier, more accurate, and I can continue watching what's on.

Although I don't have proof, I believe that this what's killing the guide. TVGOS cost money to provide, and was paid for by ad revenue. When smartphone apps came along, the ad revenue dried up.

Don't get me wrong ... I don't much care for Rovi's decision, but I understand it. When something makes you money you stay with it. When it loses money you stop it - simple as that. Business is business. I would not expect them to continue support for the internet guide, either.

Oh ... my clocks advanced one hour over DST with .13 and all patches in place. I believe that this is consistent with prior posts.
post #27855 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

The real reason DST is important to me, is because I am so lazy. If I can't get the DHG to run with correct clock with no work by me; then I will most likely give up on it. So far I still have correct Date and Time, so manual recordings are fine and dandy - for now.

My real focus is this OLD house, it is like pre-historic and the repairs/updates are murder. I just "thought" our old house in Houston was old. I never knew I had it so good, till we got to this house.

Seriously, the 100 AMP panel service from the breaker will not even let me hook up the Denon. I thought there was a law that 250 AMP service was the minimum? Oh well.

Anyway, back the DST thingy. I still sort of think I could get the next DST corrected hooking up the Artec T
I feel for you. When I moved in here I had fuses. I was lucky to find a 200 Amp box and get my sister to pay for it's installation. The cable was RG-58 so that had to be replaced. My phone line has porcelain lightning arrestors. It's OLD.
post #27856 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac24 View Post

Interesting. I have no such problem on my 55HX800, but if I did I'd do the same as you. The guide has 3 major issue:

o No QAM cable channels listings (this is big).
o Cumbersome to navigate.
o Using a smartphone app is easier, more accurate, and I can continue watching what's on.
I found that V10 would show the clear QAM channels. The DHG V8 does not. So I could map a QAM channel, like 26.2601 to a guide channel. This was good for about 10 mappings and then it crashed. Since my HD channels are now only one decimal place I can map them with the DHG to my old analog channels. The best feature of V10 is that you have to manually select the ads if you want to see them.

The HX series is much better than my EX. I still use the remote from an XBR9 since my fingers can't handle those double rings.
post #27857 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaltA View Post

Nope. My only problem seems to be you, and that doesn't seem to be solved.

If you bothered to read my post, before making your snide comment, you would have noted that these need an over-the-air ATSC signals, which I don't have available in my area.

I certainly did read your post. You claim to live on Earth, and although there are some areas on Earth that cannot receive an OTA signal there are many areas that can. And many people think that they cannot receive OTA but yet they could if they tried. In reality though, an OTA signal will not help you in this case because the DTVpal device is not going to do what you you think it is going to do. You don't have to believe me.. others have told you the same thing.
post #27858 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

Yes Sir, just checked this Sunday morning. It is has PID, and clock sets, and a NumSearch 10 was started late Friday. Still only reaches 0xc68

The reason you still have TVGOS PIDs and some redundant data is the host station hasn't removed the inserter. The data stopped coming to the inserter when the listings stopped. The data that you are receiving is old data that is stored on the inserter from the last Rovi download. If you are willing you can reset the guide to its factory defaults in the 9012 menu and see what data it collects. I suspect your station will remove the inserter before or right after the easter holiday.

My data actually stopped on thursday morning and the old analog inserter put out some data for two days after until it expired. Since this morning marks the third day with out actual Rovi data my host channel and HostSUFlags blanked out and the VBI state is 0x03. The guide also started Num search 2.
When I checked last night I still had a host channel set and when the guide reached a scheduled dwonload time it would show errcheck, then linescan, and then it would just go to blacklist. When I had data it would show active. I will be calling my cable company tomorrow to tell them the data stopped and I will do a factory reset on my two TVs but will not set up the guide when asked. My clock is already 10 seconds slow.
post #27859 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac24 View Post

Hmmm ....

I guess I can't help but be amazed by, in today's every changing technology, how many folks feel "ripped off" by a product that provided 8 years of service with $0 in monthly fees.

I paid a lot of money for a product that had lifetime service implied. If feeling ripped off by the discontinuation of a service that was a primary reason for the initial purchase is beyond your comprehension, then maybe you are not as bright as you think you are.
post #27860 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgrahamok View Post

I paid a lot of money for a product that had lifetime service implied. If feeling ripped off by the discontinuation of a service that was a primary reason for the initial purchase is beyond your comprehension, then maybe you are not as bright as you think you are.

Why don't you write Sony and complain.

For a couple of good e-mail addresses see post #27765
http://www.avsforum.com/t/537711/sony-dhg-hdd250-500-official-thread/27765
post #27861 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgrahamok View Post

I paid a lot of money for a product that had lifetime service implied. If feeling ripped off by the discontinuation of a service that was a primary reason for the initial purchase is beyond your comprehension, then maybe you are not as bright as you think you are.
You really believed that the DVR, as well as the TVGoS guide service, would just last forever? 8 years of functional service, especially for a device that was only sold for a short time, and only sold maybe a few thousand units at the outside, is pretty good all considered. Considering how few were sold, the fact that it got a firmware update in 2009 - after being killed prematurely in '05, maybe a couple months after launch - is in itself a minor miracle. If you thought "lifetime" meant "the rest of your life", you're quite the optimist.
post #27862 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgrahamok View Post

SONY and Rovi disgust me. I owned six DHGs with six cable cards. I took them all off line in December 2012, which was prior to KHOU pulling the plug on TVGOS in Houston, TX. I replaced my machines with six TiVo boxes (two XL4; four Premiere 4) and forked over for lifetime service for each unit. I have spent tens of thousands on SONY gear throughout the years: an HDTV projector, DVRs, HDTVs, etc. However, I will not spend any more money with SONY. I guess those of us who have cast our lot with TiVo can now wait for that company to rip us off by eventually terminating our "lifetime service." I have enjoyed lurking on this thread for many years, but it has come to a sad, cruel end. SONY and Rovi disgust me. Oh yeah, I said that already.
That "sad, cruel end" didn't even last a day.
post #27863 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

That "sad, cruel end" didn't even last a day.

If you like, you can reach me at 1-800-#SAND.
post #27864 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgrahamok View Post

I paid a lot of money for a product that had lifetime service implied. If feeling ripped off by the discontinuation of a service that was a primary reason for the initial purchase is beyond your comprehension, then maybe you are not as bright as you think you are.

This thread in primarily an exchange of ideas, expertise, and experience between participants so that we can get the most out of our Sony DVRs. For me it has been invaluable both before - but especially after - TVGOS was discontinued. I frankly don't want to see this degenerate into a bunch of editorials about corporate greed and the evils of capitalism. It's all been said before. If you just want to vent steam, I'd prefer you start another thread. Personal insults directed at me are just fine - I really don't care - and I'm sure you'll have plenty of company.

The way I see it, the DHG is still working the way it was designed. My guide has been gone a month, but with the help of Joe, Kerry, Izzy, Mabuttra, and others I'm still doing timed recording with success and the device is quite functional. I would only offer apologize to those folks if my brief editorial comment threw things off course.
post #27865 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac24 View Post

I would only offer apologize to those folks if my brief editorial comment threw things off course.

No, I agree with you. I do understand the emotional reaction when people first feel a loss, so a little bit of venting is forgivable. But the nasty responses to normal joking or advice are not welcome anywhere. I like to say that people should "move on" emotionally — think and talk about what you are going to do next, rather than live in a self-defeating world of anger and blame.

But for those who just want to personally attack other members (did they ruin your TVGOS?...), please get it out of your system some other way, and some other place.

- Kerry
post #27866 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by KerryNY View Post

But for those who just want to personally attack other members (did they ruin your TVGOS?...), please get it out of your system some other way, and some other place.
- Kerry
If Sony came out with a clock fix today some people who bought a TiVo or built an HTPC box would probably complain that it took too long. Such is life.

Speaking of TiVo, walmart.com stopped listing the mid-range Premiere 4 last week.
post #27867 of 29213
Everyone who paid $400 to $500 dollars above the usual price for a CE item with TVGOS can claim an implied service for the lifetime of the unit--not just DHG owners. That the unit in question is still usable in other respects only shows that the unit is still in its lifetime. Goldstar/Rovi got that money and owes the continued service.

The absence of a manual time/date menu item on the DHG shows that Sony expected the TVGOS service to continue for the lifetime of the unit. The Sony update from analog to digital reception of TVGOS showed that Sony supported TVGOS service for the lifetime of the unit.

Instead of writing a letter to Sony (or whomever) that gets filed in the trash, try your state's consumer complaint site at the state attorney general's website. At the very least they will forward your complaint, but it will arrive in a more noticeable envelope.

If someone bought a first class ticket on a 747 to Europe, and during a stop over were moved to a DC10, should they say "It was good while it lasted," and say they understood the financial hardships of an airline in the real world of business? Without consumers there is no capitalism. For capitalism to work well, consumers must be informed and vociferous.

Since this post is really directed to any TVGOS purchasers, should I have placed it on another thread?
Edited by cablenest - 3/25/13 at 6:46am
post #27868 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by cablenest View Post


Since this post is really directed to any TVGOS purchasers, should I have placed it on another thread?
Perhaps:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1122914/tvgos-tv-guide-on-screen-devices/1450_50#post_23117263
post #27869 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by cablenest View Post

.... Goldstar/Rovi got that money . . .

I think you mean Gemstar.... smile.gif
post #27870 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

Speaking of TiVo, walmart.com stopped listing the mid-range Premiere 4 last week.
The fact that they say nothing about the after-purchase cost associated with the unit is going to cause them continued grief. They really should have full disclosure in the product description for something as important as this. I'll bet buying a TiVo from walmart doesn't last a year.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: HDTV Recorders
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Recorders › Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread