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Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 930

post #27871 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

I found that V10 would show the clear QAM channels. The DHG V8 does not. So I could map a QAM channel, like 26.2601 to a guide channel. This was good for about 10 mappings and then it crashed. Since my HD channels are now only one decimal place I can map them with the DHG to my old analog channels. The best feature of V10 is that you have to manually select the ads if you want to see them.

The HX series is much better than my EX. I still use the remote from an XBR9 since my fingers can't handle those double rings.

Joe:

You fixed the TVGOS in my HX !!! Thanks !!!

Too bad I never use it. Oh well ... it's still nice that it works .. and it's fun learning something new.
post #27872 of 29213
It appears the Dallas inserter was removed first thing this morning, or after 6PM Sunday evening.

PID is gone and data is not coming in.

My last clockset was about 7PM Sunday, I guess in the next day or two the clock will begin drifting?

The box has a Wed and Thur scheduled for manual record. Time will tell if that works or not.
post #27873 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

Life support was removed first thing this morning, or after 6PM Sunday evening.

PID is gone and data is not coming in.......

post #27874 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

It appears the Dallas inserter was removed first thing this morning, or after 6PM Sunday evening.
PID is gone and data is not coming in.
My last clockset was about 7PM Sunday, I guess in the next day or two the clock will begin drifting?
The box has a Wed and Thur scheduled for manual record. Time will tell if that works or not.
Manual recording will work as scheduled unless you have a power failure. Clock has already starting to drift, but how badly will take a while to determine. Sorry for your loss.
post #27875 of 29213
It is strange we have gone almost 2 months without power failure.

The Roof work started today. Soffit work is first, this means the internet and phone cable is laying the back yard. Just hope they don't mess it up. Don't think they will get into the electric LOL
post #27876 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

[...]
My last clockset was about 7PM Sunday, I guess in the next day or two the clock will begin drifting?
[...]

For the record my clock only drifts about 0.7 seconds/day. In 44 days it had drifted +32 seconds. Saturday I factory defaulted the DHG, and recovered it from a videotape that I had made in December. I timed it so it set the clock 30 seconds slow, so it will take about 90 days to drift back to +30 seconds. I probably won't ever do that again though, and the next stop will be the basement storage room for my DHG.
post #27877 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

If Sony came out with a clock fix today some people who bought a TiVo or built an HTPC box would probably complain that it took too long. Such is life.
[...]

I have to disagree. Even if Sony released a clock fix now, I would probably still put the DHG into storage. I bought a TiVo back in December, and quickly realized the Sony DHG, even with TVGOS, couldn't hold a candle to it for two reasons.

1) The two tuners.
2) The season pass feature.

These two features alone made the price of a TiVo worth it (it really didn't cost much more than what I paid for the used DHG on ebay). I have no regrets. If TVGOS came back to life, I would keep using the Sony for overflow recordings instead of the DTVPal, but it will never replace the TiVo. As an example, I set a season pass on most of my TiVo recordings. This weekend I was looking at the upcoming list of things to be recorded, and noticed that one of the shows that I record had been moved to a different night. If I was still recording with the DHG, I would have probably missed several episodes of that show, before I discovered that it had moved.

Mark
post #27878 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

I have to disagree. Even if Sony released a clock fix now, I would probably still put the DHG into storage. I bought a TiVo back in December, and quickly realized the Sony DHG, even with TVGOS, couldn't hold a candle to it for two reasons.

1) The two tuners.
2) The season pass feature.

These two features alone made the price of a TiVo worth it (it really didn't cost much more than what I paid for the used DHG on ebay). I have no regrets. If TVGOS came back to life, I would keep using the Sony for overflow recordings instead of the DTVPal, but it will never replace the TiVo. As an example, I set a season pass on most of my TiVo recordings. This weekend I was looking at the upcoming list of things to be recorded, and noticed that one of the shows that I record had been moved to a different night. If I was still recording with the DHG, I would have probably missed several episodes of that show, before I discovered that it had moved.

Mark

3) The PITA audio dropouts
post #27879 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

3) The PITA audio dropouts
They are quite annoying. Don't gang up on me. I have 120% of the HDD space on my To Do List and two pages on the Season Pass. The Sony is just enough to handle some late night and overflow on Monday. Offload to my laptop is wonderful and, of course, there is no clock issue. My point was that no matter what Sony or Rovi might do, somebody will think it's not enough. I've adjusted to The Daily Show and now I have to adjust to Doctor Who. The guide and season pass are not perfect but they are better than the Sony.
post #27880 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

3) The PITA audio dropouts

Those dropouts might be what eventually sends me over to TiVo. For a long time, I thought those were a problem with my cable service, but then I noticed that a 15-second replay sometimes "fixes" it. :-\

- Kerry
post #27881 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

I have to disagree. Even if Sony released a clock fix now, I would probably still put the DHG into storage. I bought a TiVo back in December, and quickly realized the Sony DHG, even with TVGOS, couldn't hold a candle to it for two reasons.

1) The two tuners.
2) The season pass feature.

These two features alone made the price of a TiVo worth it
Wait until the first time you create a
3) TiVo Wishlist
and see the real power there. Wishlists allow me to record all the football or baseball games of a specific team -- excluding all others -- no matter when they play or on what channel their game is broadcast. Never missed one in four years, which is how long ago I created the Wishlists.
post #27882 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Even if Sony released a clock fix now, I would probably still put the DHG into storage.

I could echo almost word-for-word everything Mark said about the TiVo. If you're patient, a used S3 on eBay runs about $300 with lifetime service. It has similar capacity to the DHG plus it's expandable and has 2 tuners.

Like many of you my DHG has been relegated to "overflow" status so it's NOT headed for storage any time soon. In that capacity, it's been very handy to have.

I further agree with Mark on the manual clock set, and would take it a step further. If Sony provided this, I honestly don't see it making a huge different due to 1) drift and 2) the time is not preserved across restarts. If it could acquire the time from another source (such as the power line) and keep it updated, then that might be different.

If your DHG is used for overflow recordings (less than 6 per week) then it's easy to tell from the list what was recorded when - even if the recording time calculator is used. An accurate clock is nice to have, but it's not a deal breaker.
post #27883 of 29213
Grades on DVR’s:

TiVo Premier B

Sony DHG C+


As DVR there are few things the Sony just does a lot better than TiVo – plain ole basic transport controls for one. The Sony is more “bug free” than the TiVo with much cleaner and tighter programming. TiVo is very sloppy with their programming; QA is very poor. The TiVo HD interface needs to be completed and the bugs removed asap. As it is now, the product seems unfinished.

But overall I like the TiVo a good deal better.

As others have said the Season Pass, 2 tuners, Wishlist. Etc make it a little better than the Sony.

I do wish there was the basic saved “keyword” – less hassle than Wishlist.

So far I have been able to make Season Pass do everything I want it to do. I have not had problems extending recordings times “automatically” for the last CBS Sunday shows due to sport events. I just make it part of the original season pass for that program. I like being able to handle priorities “automatic” based on “my” requirements and that has address all programming conflicts for me – another TiVo plus, at least for me.

I would give TiVo an A+ if they did these items:

1. Make stellar transport controls – I mean really this is 2013 not 1975.

2. Finish the HD interface

3. Get rid of all the bugs, and at least have some elementary type of QA to prevent such a large number of bugs from getting through.


The features I really miss that would be real nice (some fall under stellar transport):

Stop

User definable Smart Que Adjust

User definable Bookmarks

FF should be “butter smooth” at any speed and not jerky with so many frames skipped.

A consistent interface that “always” works the same way - part of this is bugs and part of this is poor design

Multi-Speed Slo-Mo

User definable start and end times to override the automatic features of Season Pass; however this has not been a problem for me to date. So far Season Pass AND TiVo’s internet guide has gotten the schedule recording times adjusted just the way they should be so far; both starts and stop.

Keyword – but I have gotten use to the TiVo work around, for me “Season Pass” will do my “hunting” for me automatically, so in that regard it is better than Keyword. Still the instant saved Keyword was very nice and I do miss it.

TiVo Suggestions: Sometimes it will do some very funny things. Periodically it records “motorcycle racing” (I have no interest in motorcycle racing). The punch line; each time it does record the motorcycle racing all I get is “naked Latin people dancing” It is all X rated as far as I am concerned. I had no idea anything this was available like that for broadcast TV? It’s just very strange. It is like TiVo is intentionally sending me porn?

Another oddity and there may be an answer or solution that I do not know about for this – The “program description” is often incomplete and it is truncated with “….”. So the question is how do you get to the rest of it. On the Sony the “descriptions” were often “more descriptive” and if it filled up the info box you could expand it. I realize part of that was that the TVGOS service usually just provided more info about that one specific program. Example: Law and Order – Detective Fred and Detective Sally went down the street….(TiVo stops the description here). With TVGOS Example: Law and Order – Detective Fred and Detective Sally went down the street to arrest Fat Albert a known drug dealer, but the city lost the case in court because Fat Albert’s Mom knew the Judge.

Another feature I would like is to make better use of the real estate for the Grid. There is room in both 720p mode and 1080p/i mode to add 2 to 3 more lines in the grid.

And of course a user definable grid (like Sony) would be very nice, but I have adapted well with out it.

Yes I do like the TiVo; but this is 2013, it needs to be lot better.
Edited by HoustonPerson - 3/25/13 at 2:50pm
post #27884 of 29213
Additional TiVo pluses:

With HDMI the sound starts instantly with the picture, not the three second delay like the Sony (running both boxes in native mode)
With HDMI I have not had sound drop outs on the Tivo, a BIG plus.


TiVo minus:

With HDMI sometimes either the handshake does not work OR this another software bug; it goes from 2 channel or multi channel to Mono. Usually a rewind followed by play will fix it, but sometimes you have to do that twice.
post #27885 of 29213
HP -

Are you hitting the Chocolate Milk again? tongue.gif

Can you take a minute to type up that list of bugs? confused.gif
post #27886 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post


The Sony is more “bug free” than the TiVo ....

Oh yeah. I miss the DHG's audio dropouts, but I especially miss the machine freezing when using FF during chaseplay, and even sometimes just during a recorded program. And the random reboots were an added bonus. biggrin.gif

Honestly HP, some of the things you mentioned as "issues" have me baffled. Guess it just highlights how differently we probably use our recorders.

For me the Tivo gets AAA+, the DHG not so much.
post #27887 of 29213
The only thing I really agree with is this part . . .

The 'program description' is often incomplete and it is truncated with “….”

I must admit that I never could figure out how to see the "..." part either. confused.gif
post #27888 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

The only thing I really agree with is this part . . .

The 'program description' is often incomplete and it is truncated with “….”

I must admit that I never could figure out how to see the "..." part either. confused.gif
Sometimes the little INFO button works even when it's not shown as an option.
post #27889 of 29213
^^^
That's one of those "kinda inconsistent" things that drive HP nuts. smile.gif If you highlight the program in the grid and you do NOT have it set to record, just press the Info button and it shows the entire description (unless it's still too long for that box). But if the show is set to record, the info button doesn't show description.
post #27890 of 29213
Then you can hit Select and Options. The info button will provide too much information.
post #27891 of 29213
In all the years of using my DHG for OTA, I have never once had a single audio dropout. I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Must be a cable box thing. My audio has always been dead perfect.

The pro-TIVO viewpoints are helpful. It shows me that all the things I value most (user-defined skip lengths, slow-mo speeds, smooth non-jerky operation, etc) are what the DHG does well, and all the extra useless bells-and-whistles to justify the big Tivo service fee but add no value to my life (Season Pass sounds dreadful, even more "don't care" shows to have to babysit nightly, mistaken naked latin dancing programs to have to babysit and delete, buggy operation, etc) are what Tivo is all about.

There is a reason why I dropped my very-limited-value-to-me cable programming. Tivo goes the whole other opposite direction. Not just one tuner recording 24/7 but now two? Double the shows to babysit every night? No thanks.

Fast-forward 5 years ahead - next will be 100 tuner Tivo so you don't miss one single second of any of the always-must-see-TV top quality programming across ALL your 'favorite' 100 channels. Don't miss it when Regis unexpectedly coughs in hour 123 of show#381 in your Regis-all-the-time Season Pass (with bonus extra latin dancing shows thrown it). Yikes!! This is progress?

To each their own. All I need is something to record all my OTA PBS, local sports, local news and a handful of weekly shows... but all in crisp solid perfect smooth-FF HD - that's all I need. Quality over quantity. And DHG fits the bill.

Perfectly positioned as the sane "some TV" midpoint between "no TV adds to the quality of my life" and "non-stop TV is what defines my life".

DHG was crack enough. Tivo sounds like living 24/7 in the crack house.
post #27892 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by teleskier View Post

In all the years of using my DHG for OTA, I have never once had a single audio dropout. I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Must be a cable box thing. My audio has always been dead perfect.

My 4 DHG-HDD500's are OTA only, and I've never had any audio problems.
I agree it may be a cable/cable card issue.
post #27893 of 29213
You guys that have never had the audio dropouts occur have probably never used the digital optical output.
post #27894 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

You guys that have never had the audio dropouts occur have probably never used the digital optical output.
Optical or HDMI, live or recorded, a dropout has always been there for me. I have never used 2ch audio and always have DD on auto. No cable cards.

If it's cable, why does it not stick with the recording? It doesn't repeat with a rewind and replay. I will say that if the DHG is connected to my TV the dropout is tiny but if connected through my AVR it can last two seconds. Of course the AVR seems to have every codec and dsp ever invented.
post #27895 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

You guys that have never had the audio dropouts occur have probably never used the digital optical output.

I get them over HDMI as well. I am OTA only, so it is not a cable box issue. I can handle the occasional dropout, but when I get 3 or 4 in a row, and miss about 15 seconds of audio, it is really annoying. Of course when I back up and replay the segment, everything is fine.
post #27896 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

Optical or HDMI, live or recorded, a dropout has always been there for me. I have never used 2ch audio and always have DD on auto. No cable cards.

If it's cable, why does it not stick with the recording? It doesn't repeat with a rewind and replay. I will say that if the DHG is connected to my TV the dropout is tiny but if connected through my AVR it can last two seconds. Of course the AVR seems to have every codec and dsp ever invented.

The DHG that I noticed it the most on (like several times per hour) was the one that was connected optically to my AVR (5.1). This for four years before I ever had a CableCard, as well as for two years with the CableCard. But you're right, my other two DHG's were connected just to the TV sound (2-ch), one via HDMI and the other via Red/White analog, and the problem was hardly ever noticeable with those. Also, the DHG connected optically to the AVR acted the same with two different AVR's . . .
post #27897 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by teleskier View Post

Season Pass sounds dreadful, even more "don't care" shows to have to babysit nightly, mistaken naked latin dancing programs to have to babysit and delete, buggy operation, etc) are what Tivo is all about.
You're confusing Season Pass with Suggestions. SP is like the DHG "regular" for recording frequency but it can handle a two week break of a show. It also has a "new only" option that works even too much at times. I never said a TiVo was perfect.

Suggestions are not so good but can be disabled two different ways. I never enable it. It is nice, especially for sports fans or collectors. Collectors have never been big with the DHG since it has, by today's standards, limited storage ability.

I admit, cable users can become addicted to TV (like me) when faced with 400 or more channels. I guess some like to record everything. When someone hits that guide button and is presented with pages of program listings it can be like a big gulp to some people. Rovi fixed that problem for the DHG.
post #27898 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACSWIRELESS View Post

My 4 DHG-HDD500's are OTA only, and I've never had any audio problems.
I agree it may be a cable/cable card issue.

More likely it is just a common problem. but not necessarily a universal one. I have had dropouts when using the analog outputs, as well as HDMI, so it isn't just the optical output. And cable/cablecard issues wouldn't allow it to record the audio that sometimes drops out. (when going back and playing it over again lets me hear the audio that dropped out the first time) It is (mostly, at least) a playback issue for me.

- Kerry
post #27899 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank70 View Post

Alas, the DTVPal CECB creates nothing. The only function of that TVGOS mode was to convert digital TVGOS legacy data (using SCTE 127 VBI-in-MPEG packets) to actual analog VBI and modulate that onto the appropriate VBI line of its analog output. That legacy data was inserted by exactly the same inserters that inserted the TVG1 packets that the DHG's decoded for guide data. That is why the DTVPal CECB needed to be (when in this mode) tuned via Scientific Atlanta IR remote codes to a valid TVGOS host channel to put out TVGOS VBI.

The DTVPal CECB had no knowledge of the format or meaning of the bits it was converting from digital to analog (and thus contained none of Rovi's intellectual property).

Many of the higher-end CECB's made use of the ATSC PSIP to create and display on the screen their own somewhat primitive program guides. Just to mention, PSIP contains program start times and titles along with additional program descriptive data for that station. It was told that the DTVPal CECB's, instead of creating their own program guide like the other CECB's, used the PSIP data to create their own TVGOS formatted data and put such into the VBI of their output. Kind of acting like their own private inserter, just using PSIP instead of Rovi sourced data.

The Scientific Atlanta IR remote was to allow the device, possibly our DHG units, to control the DTVPal CECB just like it was a cable TV STB. To be able to change the channel as need to record.

Like I said, I don't have any local CBS, NBC, ABC, CW, etc, over the air stations available to me. So, I can't actually use/test my own DTVPal CECB. I could easily imagine that with the DTVPal CECB being rushed to market, it might not work very well. Nor had been tested very well with actual TVGOS devices. Heck, it might not work at all due to some basic flaw (like the fake zip code mentioned).

And that's why I was originally asked the very simple question of, did anyone here ever actually try one of these with their DHG. I am still unsure why such a simple question got a few people here so very riled up and they went instantly into a personal attack mode. rolleyes.gif
post #27900 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by teleskier View Post


The pro-TIVO viewpoints are helpful. It shows me that all the things I value most (user-defined skip lengths, slow-mo speeds, smooth non-jerky operation, etc) are what the DHG does well, and all the extra useless bells-and-whistles to justify the big Tivo service fee but add no value to my life (Season Pass sounds dreadful, even more "don't care" shows to have to babysit nightly, mistaken naked latin dancing programs to have to babysit and delete, buggy operation, etc) are what Tivo is all about........ .

I know I am not very clear with my typing and explanations; but trying to be more clear.

I Love the TiVo Season Pass and “all” that is does. For me it is much superior to the Sony.

The “Naked Latin Dancers” classified as “Motorcycle Racing” was from a Tivo feature called “TiVo Suggestions” which is entirely separate and apart from Season Pass. Also, the TiVo Suggestions will automatically delete themselves in order to record the programs you do want from your Season Pass or other TiVo methods “you” have used. For the most part TiVo Suggestions is kind of sort of nice – about 65% of the time it finds programs we actually do like, that we otherwise do not know about; still the feature (system) knows to delete programs on the hard disc so you still get what you do want. Um, my explanation is still not that good, but it is much easier to use than for me to explain.

If they were to put the Naked Latin Dancers on the Motorcycle in a Race, I would watch that one!
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