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Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - Page 943

post #28261 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiJay250 View Post

Hi all, long time lurker here.

I never had any contributions to make until now. Today I have an insight on the problem that some have called "twin recordings" - two different recordings made at the exact same time and date as a result of resetting the DHG between recordings, or perhaps from using a tape to set the DHG's clock between the two recordings.
 

Thank you for the contribution. You lost me when you indicated seconds are part of the file identifier. If the table of recordings have a resolution limited to minutes we can agree that two recordings at the same "time" are bad, a condition I have seen and duplicated easily. I no longer need to do resets within the operational life between resets since I have several sets of tapes, don't keep recordings long and have three recordings that have had their time (but not date) altered after a reset.

 

As for lockups, I might be on a trail that could explain the 21-day cycle. For now I look forward to your next post.

post #28262 of 29213
Joe,

You may have missed which table of recordings I was referring to. Indeed the usual list of recordings available from the TVGOS "RECORDINGS" screen shows recording titles and their time of recording (day of week, date, and wall clock hours and minutes, but no seconds). I referred to the list of recordings that can be seen in one of the 753... diagnostic screens. Find the "Section Recording-Recordings Detail" screen there and you will see on the left that each recording has a 10-digit number associated with it. That number is the Unix time of the recording. It is the number of elapsed seconds from 00:00:00 1/1/1970 until the recording started and is the real internal timestamp of the recording.

You can check that out by taking that number, adjusting it by the offset given in the 753... Clocks1 diagnostic screen. (That will be a negative number, so you actually will be reducing the Unix time - reflecting that you are west of Greenwich.) You can then convert that number to conventional date and time notation using the following web site (precede the next line by http://)

www.onlineconversion.com/unix_time.htm

The offset you use must be the one that was in effect when the recording was made. If the recording was made when daylight savings was in effect, but you use the offset in use during standard time, the websites's conversion will be off by an hour.

The resolution of the internal timestamp is in seconds. That is important because instant recordings may not always start on exact minutes, in contrast to manually scheduled recordings which can only start on exact minutes since the scheduling screen only allows input of hours and minutes.

I will admit I do not understand why the time of archived recordings might change after a reset. I intend to avoid resets and want to concentrate on convincing Sony to produce a clock-set solution.

I am still working on a posting covering that, but I wanted to answer your question first.
post #28263 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiJay250 View Post

Joe,

You may have missed which table of recordings I was referring to. Indeed the usual list of recordings available from the TVGOS "RECORDINGS" screen shows recording titles and their time of recording (day of week, date, and wall clock hours and minutes, but no seconds). I referred to the list of recordings that can be seen in one of the 753... diagnostic screens. Find the "Section Recording-Recordings Detail" screen there and you will see on the left that each recording has a 10-digit number associated with it. That number is the Unix time of the recording. It is the number of elapsed seconds from 00:00:00 1/1/1970 until the recording started and is the real internal timestamp of the recording.
I am still working on a posting covering that, but I wanted to answer your question first.

No question asked. Here's what I see: from the guide I have the three episodes of Zero Hour. First two were made before data stopped and I lost my listings. I have done several FP resets, power cycles and clock sets to tape since then. Those "named" episodes were 9pm and are now displayed as 3pm. The date has not changed. One episode was made manually and also shows "unknown" at 3pm. Those three were all made before DST and before any reset was done. I am using .21 firmware, have a FP clock and call letters. While I have lost my clock set channel (-3), I have never lost my UTC offset, DST change date or channel lineup.

 

I have also an entry for last night's Letterman. Different channel also. Today is 3/21/13 on this DHG and it has made the DST transition, offset is -18000 and clock is within a minute of real time. I use this DHG almost every day.

 

On the 753... diag screens I have somewhat different data. First, there are only two entries for Zero Hour on the History screen. The Detail screen shows the three Zero Hour recordings and one for last night's Letterman. Zero Hour has a Path/Title for two, Path for one, and no path/title for Letterman. The blank path/title is interesting since when I play it it will show "no listing" since that's what shows on my guide screens.

 

So here are some items to ponder: why no path/title anymore? Where is the missing manual recording entry for the last Zero Hour? It shows on the count of recordings ok. Other than a format, what clears the recording history data?

post #28264 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

..... "named" episodes were 9pm and are now displayed as 3pm. The date has not changed......

I had this occur years ago, on at least two separate occasions. Recordings that I had kept on one of my DHG's had their times changed after some form of random reset. I don't remember for sure whether the dates of the recordings were changed also or not. eek.gif
post #28265 of 29213
This most likely will not answer too many questions; nor do I have all the answers. This is all sort of a moot point anyway.

Yes, I believe it is correct that each “recorded” show has its own unique identifier (serial number key). However, the TVGOS went away and with the numerous “resets” that most have encountered since, the Sony box loses much of its “key(s)” (and/or indexing) that links in the “date, time, channel number, logo, etc to a specific “recorded” show. In a correctly functioning box much of that data is stored in numerous locations (tables) anyway; and now with TVGOS gone the ability to keep the data information “provided” and “linked” (keyed) is gone.

This was vividly clear when we moved from Houston to Dallas. Many of the Houston recorded shows “tried” to re-link (or key) to the new Dallas information; thus date, time, channel number was often wrong with the new Dallas data. This was most apparent on station 11-1; both cities had station 11-1 the local CBS station and they both carried the TVGOS. However, Houston was RF 11 and Dallas finally became “only” RF 19 (was formally both RF 11 and RF 19 at the same time). Both cities also had stations 8-1 and 13-1; however their station affiliations were reversed in the two cities. 8-1 was PBS in Houston and it ABC in Dallas. 13-1 was ABC in Houston but PBS in Dallas. So that means watching a Houston ABC “recorded” show played in Dallas showed up that it was recorded at some bogus time from PBS – of course that was not true; but that is how the Sony Box showed it. The box could not maintain the keys and indexing to the data, because the correct Houston data was no longer in the Box.

So while the Dallas stations, including 11-1, all became correct (date, time, logo, etc); the previously recorded Houston shows still in box now reflected incorrect date, time, logo etc. Of course the shows still played back correctly, etc (many are still in the box today).

It is all sort of funny, actually.
post #28266 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

This most likely will not answer too many questions; nor do I have all the answers. This is all sort of a moot point anyway.
So while the Dallas stations, including 11-1, all became correct (date, time, logo, etc); the previously recorded Houston shows still in box now reflected incorrect date, time, logo etc. Of course the shows still played back correctly, etc (many are still in the box today).

It is all sort of funny, actually.

Yes, both moot and funny. It was accidental that I made those recordings. I never have watched them and they are saved on a PC should I change my mind.

post #28267 of 29213

New stuff for them keeping track. I have a DHG at my mother's house. I went there today to cut the grass. The DHG (.21 firmware) has never had any artificial data fed to it, having been in service since before the loss of TVGOS. The first thing I saw was --:-- for the front panel clock. It has been set to record two shows daily for the last three weeks. The unit came on with the power button. The 753... diags showed [1] after the UTC clock but it had the correct date and time was two hours ahead. Most of the counters were wiped out. Even NSane was 0. This unit was placed into service on 3/23, and the last recording was 4/23. I just hit the white button and left it alone since I had better things to do and it's not going anywhere.

post #28268 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiJay250 View Post


.... I will admit I do not understand why the time of archived recordings might change after a reset. I intend to avoid resets and want to concentrate on convincing Sony to produce a clock-set solution.

I am still working on a posting covering that, but I wanted to answer your question first.

ChiJay250 - I wrote two e-mail messages to Sony upper management regarding changing the software to provide a way to set the clock and they both fell on deaf ears with no response.

They must have thought it was "make.believe", not serious, or bogus notes. It says a lot about the One Sony, they really don't care.

I hope you have more success than I. Good luck.
post #28269 of 29213
ChiJay's post got me to thinking. If one could get to a unix command line, maybe a command to set the clock could be typed in. Has anyone tried to hook up a keyboard to the USB port? I searched and found a reference JoeKustra made to a 444555555 code on a different thread to get to a prompt. Searching on that, I found the SpiffSpace thread that has a bunch of TVGOS codes, including the familiar 753159852 Diagnostics command (http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=25). I thought that the most interesting one is "963852741 File System Shell".
post #28270 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRyanx View Post
I thought that the most interesting one is "963852741 File System Shell".

And what happened?

post #28271 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiJay250 View Post

...I do not understand why the time of archived recordings might change after a reset...
 

 

I do not see such, anymore.  But, when I had the TVGOS Patch(es)... then yes.   If I check back on some of the older recordings (with titles/descriptions), I can see some of the goofy times with a few of these recordings when I press INFO. 

 

 

Reset Update: 

 

I missed last week's reset, so this was a 2-week run. 

 

This week's reset:   Thursday, 12:05:05am.  I adjusted the dates and start/stop times by 5 minutes early. 

 

 

No need to worry about Twin-Date recordings for a while.  biggrin.gif

post #28272 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

And what happened?
I tried it tonight. Nothing seemed to happen. I cycled power via the front button, and the tv display was small, like PiP, and moved to the upper left. Did not respond to my keyboard. Had to cycle power by unplugging to get it to return to normal operation.
post #28273 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRyanx View Post


I tried it tonight. Nothing seemed to happen. I cycled power via the front button, and the tv display was small, like PiP, and moved to the upper left. Did not respond to my keyboard. Had to cycle power by unplugging to get it to return to normal operation.

A FP reset would have done it. Most stored information in the 753... screens is wiped out also. Remote power button still functioned. Date and updates are not affected but time is off, as expected from a FP reset.

post #28274 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

New stuff for them keeping track. I have a DHG at my mother's house. I went there today to cut the grass. The DHG (.21 firmware) has never had any artificial data fed to it, having been in service since before the loss of TVGOS. The first thing I saw was --:-- for the front panel clock. It has been set to record two shows daily for the last three weeks. The unit came on with the power button. The 753... diags showed [1] after the UTC clock but it had the correct date and time was two hours ahead. Most of the counters were wiped out. Even NSane was 0. This unit was placed into service on 3/23, and the last recording was 4/23. I just hit the white button and left it alone since I had better things to do and it's not going anywhere.

Interesting that there was a [1] by the UTC clock. I have never seen a [1] there, even after a "Reset to Factory Defaults". Also interesting that the clock was ahead by two hours.

Whatever happened, it must not have been a power outage, or the clock would have been frozen from that point on. When you turned on the DHG, the clock would have started from around the time and date the outage happened. Is that correct?

I hadn't thought about this before, but if you record three shows a week, and you go on vacation for a week, but the power goes out for 30 seconds, 5 minutes after you leave, then none of the recordings will happen, since the clock will be stopped after the power comes back up. Is that correct? This pretty much makes the DHG useless for this kind of unattended recording. Only if you are there to baby sit the DHG can you rely on it to record your shows.

Mark
post #28275 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by CleCakYngMfd View Post

I do not see such, anymore.  But, when I had the TVGOS Patch(es)... then yes.   If I check back on some of the older recordings (with titles/descriptions), I can see some of the goofy times with a few of these recordings when I press INFO.

Reset Update:

I missed last week's reset, so this was a 2-week run.

This week's reset:   Thursday, 12:05:05am.  I adjusted the dates and start/stop times by 5 minutes early.

No need to worry about Twin-Date recordings for a while.  biggrin.gif

I don't understand why you are resetting every week? The last time I "set" my DHG clock, I set it a minute slow, since my clock drifts forward less than a second a day. If there are no interruptions to the DHG (lockups, power outages, etc.), then I calculate that it would take at least 4 months for the clock to drift a minute ahead.
post #28276 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post


Interesting that there was a [1] by the UTC clock. I have never seen a [1] there, even after a "Reset to Factory Defaults". Also interesting that the clock was ahead by two hours.

Whatever happened, it must not have been a power outage, or the clock would have been frozen from that point on. When you turned on the DHG, the clock would have started from around the time and date the outage happened. Is that correct?

I hadn't thought about this before, but if you record three shows a week, and you go on vacation for a week, but the power goes out for 30 seconds, 5 minutes after you leave, then none of the recordings will happen, since the clock will be stopped after the power comes back up. Is that correct? This pretty much makes the DHG useless for this kind of unattended recording. Only if you are there to baby sit the DHG can you rely on it to record your shows.

Mark

Three for three. I never saw a [1] either. The recordings/time stopped on the same day and I checked the microwave and there was no power outage.

 

I agree on the unintended outage issue. I have a really big UPS so it has never been a problem. The time being ahead could be due to when I applied power, but it's an empty house except when I go there for maintenance. Perhaps I will go there tomorrow and set the clock. It has a VCR connected.

 

One clarification. The date was/is correct. The time was not. This is probably due to whatever voodoo caused the reset.

post #28277 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

Interesting that there was a [1] by the UTC clock. I have never seen a [1] there, even after a "Reset to Factory Defaults".

The first time my 250 locked up after the inserter was gone, I saw a [1]. After pulling power, when the boot process finished and I turned the unit on, both the front panel and guide screen clocks were --:--. Checking the 753... screens, there was the [1]. Turned the unit off and back on. That restored the clock display and the "now normal" [2].
post #28278 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

Three for three. I never saw a [1] either. The recordings/time stopped on the same day and I checked the microwave and there was no power outage.

I agree on the unintended outage issue. I have a really big UPS so it has never been a problem. The time being ahead could be due to when I applied power, but it's an empty house except when I go there for maintenance. Perhaps I will go there tomorrow and set the clock. It has a VCR connected.

One clarification. The date was/is correct. The time was not. This is probably due to whatever voodoo caused the reset.

Here is an experiment I did with mine the other day. It always seems like mine stores the time about once an hour, then a FP reset, or power outage restores the time back to that time. My FP clock was showing 12:15 pm (or something in that neighborhood). I did a FP reset, and when it came back up, I powered on the DHG, and the FP clock showed 12:03pm. I then turned it off, and waited until the time showed 1:02 pm, and did another FP reset. when it came up, the clock was back to 12:03 pm (it moved back 59 minutes). I then waited until the clock showed 1:04pm, before doing another FP reset. when it came back up, the clock showed 1:03pm (it had moved back only 1 minute). That pretty much proved to me that my clock is stored about once an hour, and currently a FP reset will restore it back to xx:03.

Mark
post #28279 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post

I hadn't thought about this before, but if you record three shows a week, and you go on vacation for a week, but the power goes out for 30 seconds, 5 minutes after you leave, then none of the recordings will happen, since the clock will be stopped after the power comes back up. Is that correct? This pretty much makes the DHG useless for this kind of unattended recording. Only if you are there to baby sit the DHG can you rely on it to record your shows.

I thought of it. But I didn't mention it because the Clock Manipulators always seem to get upset when someone points out the house of cards they are building. I figured they would learn soon enough that methods (as ingenious as they are) are only useful as long as you are there to confirm on a daily basis that the clock still has the time you think it has . . . eek.gif
post #28280 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Possumgirl View Post

The first time my 250 locked up after the inserter was gone, I saw a [1]. After pulling power, when the boot process finished and I turned the unit on, both the front panel and guide screen clocks were --:--. Checking the 753... screens, there was the [1]. Turned the unit off and back on. That restored the clock display and the "now normal" [2].

Playing with these resets, I have seen the guide clock show --:--. I probably didn't look at the GMT clock when it was in that state.
post #28281 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

I thought of it. But I didn't mention it because the Clock Manipulators always seem to get upset when someone points out the house of cards they are building. I figured they would learn soon enough that methods (as ingenious as they are) are only useful as long as you are there to confirm on a daily basis that the clock still has the time you think it has . . . eek.gif

Unfortunately even a "clock fix" from Sony would not get around this issue. I'm pretty sure that the behavior of the clocks after a power outage is probably a hardware issue, and not a software issue, but I could be wrong. Anyway the chances of that problem (clock does not run after a power outage, until the unit is turned on) even being on their radar at this point is probably pretty small.
post #28282 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post


Here is an experiment I did with mine the other day. It always seems like mine stores the time about once an hour, then a FP reset, or power outage restores the time back to that time. My FP clock was showing 12:15 pm (or something in that neighborhood). I did a FP reset, and when it came back up, I powered on the DHG, and the FP clock showed 12:03pm. I then turned it off, and waited until the time showed 1:02 pm, and did another FP reset. when it came up, the clock was back to 12:03 pm (it moved back 59 minutes). I then waited until the clock showed 1:04pm, before doing another FP reset. when it came back up, the clock showed 1:03pm (it had moved back only 1 minute). That pretty much proved to me that my clock is stored about once an hour, and currently a FP reset will restore it back to xx:03.

Mark

That's cool. I'll try that next time. The unit is just there to see if lockups can be predicted. I find an idle unit doesn't lockup but one that is recording analog or digital regularly takes about three weeks. No idea why or any reason yet but perhaps ChiJay is on to something.

 

Like WS pointed out, many find time to build theories. When Sony publishes source code we will know for sure.wink.gif

post #28283 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by mabuttra View Post


I don't understand why you are resetting every week? The last time I "set" my DHG clock, I set it a minute slow, since my clock drifts forward less than a second a day. If there are no interruptions to the DHG (lockups, power outages, etc.), then I calculate that it would take at least 4 months for the clock to drift a minute ahead.
 

 

My DHG clock Sails Away to about 15 seconds behind per week.  frown.gif

 

 

If someone can find a potentiometer (if there is one) to adjust the clock speed, I would get in there and do it.  I did that to my old Casio watch decades ago and had down to +/- 1 second per month!  wink.gif
 
Alas, I need every second I can get if I want to see the credits at the end of a program without extending the time to 31 or 61 minutes and cut-in on the beginning of the next program.   With no program immediately following, then yes, I can add the extra minute.

 

VCR programming was so much simpler back in the day when a show ended, with credits, 2 minutes before the top or bottom of an hour. 

 

Gee, if I could adjust the DHG down to +/- 5 seconds per month, I would only have to reset 12 times a year! biggrin.gif

 

Why could not they have left the inserters installed without the [TV GUIDE]?   We would all have the current date and time.  mad.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...

post #28284 of 29213
Leaving the inserters in would be the same price overall. I'm sure Rovi paid CBS or the individual stations to carry the data. Transmission of time or full listings would be probably the same cost to them.

We got caught between two huge companies, who don't care. No one buys Rovi products (willingly), and I'm never buying Sony ever again, and nor will anyone I advise in my geek capacity.
post #28285 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedlaw View Post

Leaving the inserters in would be the same price overall. I'm sure Rovi paid CBS or the individual stations to carry the data. Transmission of time or full listings would be probably the same cost to them.

We got caught between two huge companies, who don't care. No one buys Rovi products (willingly), and I'm never buying Sony ever again, and nor will anyone I advise in my geek capacity.

So is it safe to say these Sony boxes are dead when it comes to OTA? When they lost Tvguide they became a door stop?

What a shame.
post #28286 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

So is it safe to say these Sony boxes are dead when it comes to OTA? When they lost Tvguide they became a door stop?

What a shame.

Don't know if this was meant as sarcasm, but some of us are using the DHG fine for OTA since the Rovi murder of TVGOS.

We can record shows, watch shows, and pause live TV.

Sure, it's not the same amount of user friendliness as the device we bought from Sony (thus still grounds for a lawsuit), but it is far from a door stop (in case you were thinking of bringing yours to the recycle center).
post #28287 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by keyboard21 View Post

So is it safe to say these Sony boxes are dead when it comes to OTA? When they lost Tvguide they became a door stop?

What a shame.

Mine is still usable for occasional OTA recordings, and has a better tuner than my silicon dust box with Windows Media Center. But both of us have migrated to the computer for recording TV. By the way, Rovi provides guide date for WMC - some guide color options I discovered today:




Moving from the hdd-250 with 30 hours of storage to 3tb on the PC was another motivator:


Not quite yet an expensive doorstop - still has some limited functionality.
post #28288 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by myoda View Post

Mine is still usable for occasional OTA recordings, and has a better tuner than my silicon dust box with Windows Media Center. But both of us have migrated to the computer for recording TV. By the way, Rovi provides guide date for WMC - some guide color options I discovered today:




Moving from the hdd-250 with 30 hours of storage to 3tb on the PC was another motivator:


Not quite yet an expensive doorstop - still has some limited functionality.

Interesting. So it still has manual recordings? So clock is still working?

How is the guide working without Tvgos?
post #28289 of 29213
Quote:
Originally Posted by myoda View Post

Mine is still usable for occasional OTA recordings, and has a better tuner than my silicon dust box with Windows Media Center. But both of us have migrated to the computer for recording TV. By the way, Rovi provides guide date for WMC - some guide color options I discovered today:




Moving from the hdd-250 with 30 hours of storage to 3tb on the PC was another motivator:


Not quite yet an expensive doorstop - still has some limited functionality.

This is incorrect. Tribune Media Services provides the guide data for Windows Media Center. This will end when Microsoft decides to stop paying for the guide data so at that point you will either have to pay a monthly fee for it or WMC will become just like the DHG, guidless.
post #28290 of 29213
I just want to comment on some recent posts. First the nine digit codes are for testing the TVGOS broadcast signal and are temporary in nature. You can not make any permanent changes to the embedded guide software.
Second, those of you that are on cable, the move to MPEG 4 QAM 256 streams have already started by some big cable providers, so any device that is cable ready with an in the clear QAM tuner will cease to funtion as none of them have the ability to decode an MPEG 4 QAM 256 stream. The only device on the consumer market known to work with MPEG 4 QAM 256 streams is the Tivo Premeires. So if you want to record cable tv and save money long term then Tivo is your only outlet as anything ele is a waste of time and is like flushing money down a toilet.
On top of this most states have already passed or will soon pass electronic recycling laws forbidding you of disposing any electronics in a landfill so you better consider what you will do with all the now worthless and soon to be worthless electronic devices you have as there will be fees required to get rid of all this stuff. This became law of the land in January of this year in Pennsylvania.
Edited by Jed1 - 4/28/13 at 11:08am
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