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Rainbow Effect on Panny PX50 Plasma - is sub-pixel controller to blame? - Page 2  

post #31 of 140
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Ball
I wonder if this is not just retinal persistence of a high contrast, bright image causing strange visual effects. My brother and I used to have fun with this when we were kids. We'd sit in a dark room and get acclimatized, then set off a flash bulb while staring at a bookcase full of books. The bright flash would leave a persistent image on our retinas that would last 20 seonds or so. You could read the titles on the book covers and the image would move when you moved your head and eyes. Very sppoky. OK, we were wierd kids and this was a rather geeky form of fun. But there is a physiological effect that could be related to the high contrast edges and bright areas of the plasma screen's image when you rapidly dart your eyes over them. I haven't noitced this with my 42PHD6U, but I haven't been looking for it....
There's certainly a physiological component to it, which must explain why some people see RBE and some people don't. Even on DLP the people who see rainbows are in the minority. I haven't heard anyone yet give a good explanation for why some of us are affected and others aren't.

Having seen DLP rainbows, it's not at all like retinal persistence. Retinal persistence fades slowly. These flashes are there and gone in a fraction of a second. I had an RP LCD tv for a couple weeks, which I took back because it had terrible PQ, but I watched plenty of high-contrast material on that and never saw RBE once. I was at a BB today and spent some time watching a Philips plasma in a totally dark room they had it set up in, and I watched parts of a DVD it was playing (Drumline). I played a couple dark scenes with bright lights in them, as well as the scrolling white-text on black credits at the end (those types of scenes are real rainbow factories) and I didn't see any RBE on that plasma. Some of the DVE patterns are really good for producing rainbows, so I'm gonna try those out on some other plasmas as well as my parents' RP LCD tv just to double-check.
post #32 of 140
I'm confused about how seeing only yellow -- not a light primary -- is akin to seeing red, green, and blue separating out of white. The latter is the rainbow effect and is easily explained.

Yellow light = red + green. If you are seeing yellow where there ought to be white or even "bright", then I'd suspect the blue drive circuit is not doing it's job of keeping up, so to speak.

But you aren't seeing anything akin to color separation on DLPs and calling it the "rainbow effect" is going to confuse not only people here, but also Panasonic.
post #33 of 140
Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
I'm confused about how seeing only yellow -- not a light primary -- is akin to seeing red, green, and blue separating out of white. The latter is the rainbow effect and is easily explained.

Yellow light = red + green. If you are seeing yellow where there ought to be white or even "bright", then I'd suspect the blue drive circuit is not doing it's job of keeping up, so to speak.

But you aren't seeing anything akin to color separation on DLPs and calling it the "rainbow effect" is going to confuse not only people here, but also Panasonic.
What confuses me more is that all plasmas must address each sub-pixel seperately (in order to get the right color). So what do they mean by seperately processingeach color? What is new about that?

As for color seperation, it is possible due to how Plasma display grayscale. It is time dependant. For instance the red and green sub-pixel may fire initailly followed by the blue at the end. Now actually seeing this would be tough IMO.
post #34 of 140
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
I'm confused about how seeing only yellow -- not a light primary -- is akin to seeing red, green, and blue separating out of white. The latter is the rainbow effect and is easily explained.

Yellow light = red + green. If you are seeing yellow where there ought to be white or even "bright", then I'd suspect the blue drive circuit is not doing it's job of keeping up, so to speak.
That is actually what I was thinking too, that the blues were offset from the reds and greens, as I described in my original post.

Quote:
But you aren't seeing anything akin to color separation on DLPs and calling it the "rainbow effect" is going to confuse not only people here, but also Panasonic.
I am equating it with rainbow effect because the effect is identical in nature and quality to RBE. With RBE on a DLP, I see red, green and blue flashes of light that look like they are going off inside my eyes. If you've ever experienced RBE, then you'll know what I'm describing. It's really difficult to describe what RBE looks like to someone who doesn't experience it. The only difference is the color of the flashes. Using test patterns that produce RBE, I've actually realized that I see yellow AND blue flashes, not just yellow flashes like I had originally noticed. The difference is that the blue part of the effect is virtually impossible to see, but the yellow flashes are very bright and intrusive, which is why I only noticed them to begin with. Watching the TV normally, I can only perceive the yellow flashes, not the blue.
post #35 of 140
It's not the same as the rainbow effect, no matter how many times you say it. The rainbow effect -- which I see the moment I walk into the TV section of a store with a DLP -- is quite literally the result of the colors sequentially passing the color wheel.

In this case, you may be seeing something similar, but there is no sequential color in the plasma. It uses simultaneous color -- or very near simultaneous color. There is nothing where the plasma says, "Now red. OK now green. Great, let's go blue." It's firing the sub-fields with all three colors at once. The only thing that might be going on is what I and you said: It could be an issue of non-precise matching of the three colors, due to phosphor persistence differences causing an engineering change.

I dunno. But it's still not the rainbow effect.
post #36 of 140
E of 1: I don't know if you've done this yet, but if possible, could you pick a common DVD and maybe a section where you can see this repeatibly?
post #37 of 140
Don't eat that yellow snow where the huskies go!
post #38 of 140
Yellow flashes might be as elusive as the Bermuda triangle. I don't have all the explanations to unexplained events there, but I did have an uncle in the Air Force who had flown through it many times with no problems. I'm sure Panasonic would be concerned if alot of people were seeing such yellow flashes. They might even be concerned if alot of people who didn't see the flashes were talking about it and were concerned about it. Smething tells me that Plasma manufacturers without-pixel control would be glad we were all concerned about it. Some of those manufacturers are friends of mine. As far as I know they're petting their huskies!
post #39 of 140
I concur the Panasonic TH-50PX50U shows evidence of “green push,†and I suspect this phenomena is related to the sub-pixel controller.
post #40 of 140
Quote:
Originally posted by AkaStp
We can always rely on you to add nothing useful to a thread. :rolleyes:
You wonder when something will finally be done about it...
post #41 of 140
Assuming this is display related and not just a physiological visual effect specific to the individual, then the question rises whether it can be reduced or eliminated by a professional calibration, or whether the set is slightly defective, maybe in the video processor? Does the poster see this with other plasmas, including other Panasonics or other brands?
post #42 of 140
I own a fujitsu 40 series 50" and i see what looks like rainbows sometimes. It is a "flash" of blue/green after say a fast movement of a sword. I saw it first in gladiator. This is what gordon over at avforums thought it was. There is someone else on the avforums who also sees this on the fuji.

" What you may see is that the latency of the phosphors (r/g/b) are all different and the time takes for them all to change state may be slow enough on very fast movement so that you see this "lag" if you are suscpetible to the rainbow phenomenon. At least that would be my speculation as to why some folk see this effect on some plaama's and not on others. Joe was pointing this out to me just the other day in fact when we were trying to determine the manufacturer of the glass in a specific device."
post #43 of 140
Quote:
Originally posted by optivity
I concur the Panasonic TH-50PX50U shows evidence of “green push,†and I suspect this phenomena is related to the sub-pixel controller.
Hey Op!

Does this mean you are in the initial stages of "buyers remorse" over your 50PX50? Don't say so!

I've been reading all your posts with a growing affirmation that I need 50" Panny.

Don't go south on me now! :rolleyes:
post #44 of 140
Quote:
Originally posted by yobob
Hey Op!

Does this mean you are in the initial stages of "buyers remorse" over your 50PX50? Don't say so!

I've been reading all your posts with a growing affirmation that I need 50" Panny.

Don't go south on me now! :rolleyes:
No buyer's remorse yet... If the "green push" issue can be easily resolved by changing the Tint control from 0 to -15... what do I care? As long as my picture looks nice I'm happy. If these nuances are inherent to the design and build of these PDPs so be it... provided the panel can be adjusted to render r/g/b accurately.
post #45 of 140
There are new Panasonic LCD TV sets coming out , which utilize this special subpixel controller technology. Maybe we will see Rainbows on LCD TV sets next.

Since this is my first post, i would like to tell you that this forum is great.
post #46 of 140
How small a number of people should it be for Panasonic to KEEP the subpixel controller if it really does cause rainbows? Many manufacturers produce DLP sets even though they DO cause rainbows and a sizeable minority of people are bothered by them. I guess what i'm really asking is: If you were in charge of Panasonic and really believed it had increased Picture quality in your Plasma sets--what rainbow effect % would it take for you to abandon it if it couldn't be fixed? If it could be fixed what amount of price increase in your display would be tolerable for you to rectify the problem?
post #47 of 140
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Kevin C Brown
E of 1: I don't know if you've done this yet, but if possible, could you pick a common DVD and maybe a section where you can see this repeatibly?
The easiest thing to use to see the effect reliably is Digital Video Essentials. There is one test pattern on there that features an all black field with a single bright white line on the top half, and an all white field with a single black line on the bottom half. Looking at the bright white line against the black field, the effect is obvious when you shift the focus of your eyes from the left side of the line to the right side of the line. The line breaks up into a series of yellow, and more difficult to see blue, lines. This is a stationary image, so there's no motion effect related.

I would recommend that, just like on DLP, if you don't see the effect, don't go looking for it. If it's there you'll notice it quite readily without trying. But if you're trying to test to see if you can see it before buying, any DVD that features high contrast scenes or scenes with white text or white lights on a black background will show it. There are some scenes in Lemony Snickets Series of Unfortunate Events that show the writer at a typewriter, as a black siihouette on a white background that cause the effect. There are dark interior shots in the Star Wars movies with white lights that can do it too. If you watch a credits sequence of white text scrolling across a black background, the eye movement required to read the text can reliably produce the effect, at least for me.

Now that I know what to look for, I HAVE seen the same effect on another display PX50U. I tried to see the effect on a Phillips plasma that was at a store during a credits sequence with white text on black background but I couldn't.

I have no idea what is causing this. I suspected SPC because it was something new and the description of what SPC does made it sound plausible that it could introduce time delays when processing the separate colors. Without a way to turn off SPC, it's only a guess. In another thread there's mention of the new blue phosphors, so perhaps there's some intrinsic quality of the blue phosphors that causes them to "light up" at a faster or slower rate than the red and green phosphors.

What is certain... CERTAIN... is that the effect is identical to RBE. Not similar. IDENTICAL. If someone wants to be in denial that RBE can occur on a plasma, because they define RBE as something that can only happen if a color wheel is involved, then call it whatever you want. "Temporal Color Separation Phenomena" may be a better term (even though it sounds a bit Star Trek), because at least in this case, it appears to be only the blue color which separates from the red-green colors, so it's not a true "rainbow" effect. Whatever the cause may be, be it color wheels, SPC, phosphor on/off time lags, etc., the EFFECT is the same... the colors separate and produce an optical effect that manifests itself as odd flashes of color during high contrast or white-on-black material.

The exact cause on the PX50U is a moot point for me now, since I've been able to find no way to disable SPC and test that theory, or otherwise get an idea of what if anything can be done to minimize or eliminate the effect, the set is going back tomorrow and it's back to the drawing boards. I'll be taking my copy of DVE around to some stores next week to try it out on other plasmas and see if there are any other sets that produce RBE, or TCSP, or whatever you want to call it.
post #48 of 140
"so perhaps there's some intrinsic quality of the blue phosphors that causes them to "light up" at a faster or slower rate than the red and green phosphors."

That's certainly not out of the question. There is a "rise" and "fall" time on phosphors

"What is certain... CERTAIN... is that the effect is identical to RBE. Not similar. IDENTICAL. If someone wants to be in denial that RBE can occur on a plasma, because they define RBE as something that can only happen if a color wheel is involved, then call it whatever you want. "

We're going to agree to disagree. First of all, I'm not saying a color wheel is required. I'm saying sequential color is required. The colors don't literally separate on a DLP to cause rainbow effect. Instead, you are not fooled into believe they are together.

Second of all, I think you're fearmongering because you have a problem. I had a problem plasma and I actually went out of my way to show people here mine was unique -- not the norm. You are opening a can of worms here and causing a lot of upset without understanding what's really even going on.

There are a number of theories out as to how your plasma might not be working right and so far a dearth of other owners reporting the problem.

And while I don't know what you mean by identical, let me state again... I see a DLP projector, I can spot rainbows. Immediately. Constantly. Is that what your plasma is doing? If no, it's not identical.
post #49 of 140
I think what he's saying, is that what he's *seeing* is "identical" to the RBE on DLPs, but obviously the (potential) cause is definitely not the same.

I like the suggestion to *not* go looking for it if it's not easily/immediately apparent. :) I never knew what the chroma bug looked like for the longest time, then I found out. I had to get a different player after that. :D
post #50 of 140
Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
There are a number of theories out as to how your plasma might not be working right and so far a dearth of other owners reporting the problem.
I'm sympathetic to anyone that seems something funny on their plasma, as long as they don't make me see it on mine too. :)

That said, I agree with rogo on this one. Maybe this problem is related to SPC but I don't immediately see how. And it's most likely not a mechanism much like the DLP rainbow mechanism.

The bottom line for anyone reading this thread and trying to make a decision should be that you need to look at the PQ of any display you want to buy with a critical eye, in your own viewing environment if possible, with the sources you intend to watch, and be prepared to send the thing back and get something different if you don't like the results. That's a pain, but I think with the current technologies it's a fact of life.

Of course, if you're not too fussy about PQ, it's a lot easier to just not worry so much.
post #51 of 140
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I think what he's saying, is that what he's *seeing* is "identical" to the RBE on DLPs, but obviously the (potential) cause is definitely not the same.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. My original intent in starting this thread was 1) to figure out what was causing the effect, since I'd never seen or heard of anyone else seeing it on a plasma before, and it obviously wasn't a color wheel thing, and 2) what if anything could possibly be done to fix it.

Quote:
And while I don't know what you mean by identical, let me state again... I see a DLP projector, I can spot rainbows. Immediately. Constantly. Is that what your plasma is doing? If no, it's not identical.
By identical, I mean the ONLY difference between the effect on DLP and the effect I'm seeing on this one is that when I see it on a DLP, I see red, green and blue, and when I see it on this TV it's yellow and blue. Since you see DLP rainbows, imagine the same thing except in yellow and blue only. THAT'S what I'm seeing. It's not constant. I see it on scenes with high contrast, especially a scene with bright objects on a dark or black background. These are the same scenes that produce RBE for me on a DLP.

Quote:
Second of all, I think you're fearmongering because you have a problem. I had a problem plasma and I actually went out of my way to show people here mine was unique -- not the norm. You are opening a can of worms here and causing a lot of upset without understanding what's really even going on.

There are a number of theories out as to how your plasma might not be working right and so far a dearth of other owners reporting the problem.
I wasn't sure if this might be a problem unique to my set or unique to the model/brand. A couple people on this thread have also reported seeing it, even seeing the yellow flashes instead of red and green, and I have since gone back and looked for it on a different display model of the PX50 and been able to see it there too. From that I believe it's a quality of the model, not unique to mine. Most people don't see rainbows on a DLP, so I doubt many would see the effect on this TV either.

If this opens up a can of worms or upsets some people, then so be it. The first person who ever saw RBE on a DLP opened up a big can of worms that still leads to arguments and debates, and that person probably had no idea of what was causing it either. Personally, I wish I had known before I bought the TV that RBE was a possibility. I had just assumed that it couldn't happen on a plasma, so I never looked for it. Now that I know differently, I will be sure to check for it on any TV I consider buying and not assume anything. Anyone who is worried about this particular set because of what I and some other have seen can always check it out for themselves. I read all the reports about the neon-green issue on the PX50 before I bought one, and I never saw it on any of the sets I looked at so I bought anyway. I would still recommend this TV to anyone who isn't susceptible to the effect, because otherwise it looks amazing. But if you see rainbows on a DLP, I think you'd be well advised to at least check for them on this TV before buying it.
post #52 of 140
Empire,

I too see this effect occasionally on my fuji p50/40. Had a p50/30 for a brief time and never saw it. I also had a Sammy DLP and would experience RBE constantly. I am pretty anal about my PQ, but too my surprise I got use to it quickly with the fuji. Probably because it's no where near as bad as the DLP was (for me anyways). I'm beginning to wonder if this particular problem is inherent in this generation of panny glass.
post #53 of 140
If I had mentioned Rainbow effect on a plasma would it be dignified this long? In my opinion Plasma does not suffer from Rainbow Effect. I'll let the rest of you agree with me--even if it would hurt you too much to just come out and say it!
post #54 of 140
I get horribly dizzy when I ride a rollercoaster that turns me upside down.

I don't discourage people from riding those rollercoasters on the off chance they have that problem. Those rollercoasters are fun. I just can't ride them.

Rollercoasters have another flaw though: Occasionally they kill people. In fact, it's possible that lightning can strike a rollercoaster and fry someone. I've never heard of it happening and have no reason to believe it will happen. Should I warn my friends of the possibility?

This is my feeling on your comment that you wish you'd known about this plasma problem you are having.

People are entitled to reasonable information about things that are reasonably likely. That's why prescription drugs warn you about side effects that are only experienced by 1-2% of users. But they don't generally say, "You may have a freakish allergy to the coating used on these pills. We're not away such an allegrgy is possible or will ever be experience, but, hey, we want you to be informed."

If it turns out you've found a glitch in one or more displays, then you are doing people a service. If you keep comparing this to the rainbow effect -- which it still isn't -- you are doing a horrible dis-service to people. I tell would-be DLP buyers to spend some time with the sets, that some people are bothered by things about watching them. If they ask me what those things are, I very briefly mention that they see rainbows dancing on the screen, but that the effect is something most people never see at all.

It doesn't help to make people paranoid about nothing.

I just picked up my new car today. It has a defective windshield. There is an optical distortion. It's minor, but it will drive me bats. I need it fixed on my car. I doubt anyone else's car would have the problem. I'm not going to say, "Hey, window distortion on the XYZ Motors Zoomerator -- is new enginer to blame?" And I'm sure as heck not going to insist it's the same problem as some other car that has a blind spot by design -- even though both are related to visibility.

You are choosing a different path. I wish you great luck with finding a resolution.
post #55 of 140
Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
First of all, I'm not saying a color wheel is required. I'm saying sequential color is required. The colors don't literally separate on a DLP to cause rainbow effect. Instead, you are not fooled into believe they are together.
Due to the nature of how plasma displays operate (AC signal) they must use pulses to create grayscale. So in order to produce a color shade each primary color R,G,B will be fired for differing lengths of times (as well as "AT" different times for certain shades) and our eyes will integrate the pulses into the desired color. (Note: this will not be the case for shades of gray where R=G=B and thus no time seperation)

While not true "sequential" operation like DLP, it is fundamentally a source of color seperation that like DLP may cause sensitive people to view unwanted colors.

But of course it is highly unlikely :)


Note : Both Plasma and DLP rely a great deal on human integration of light over time and it is no coincidence that they both suffer from false contouring problems
post #56 of 140
Actually about 5 years ago, I could have helped more on this one. ;) I worked for an FED (now called ... SED) company here, and they had a phosphor group where I could have asked about response times. That effect is definitely real, but obviously, might take a real sensitive eye to see it.
post #57 of 140
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by rogo
I get horribly dizzy when I ride a rollercoaster that turns me upside down.

I don't discourage people from riding those rollercoasters on the off chance they have that problem. Those rollercoasters are fun. I just can't ride them.
And I don't discourage anyone from buying this TV if they aren't prone to rainbows. As I said in my last post, I'd still recommend the TV to anyone who doesn't see that effect. I'd even recommend a DLP to someone. But I would also recommend they check to make sure they don't see the effect before buying one, and to buy one from a place with a 30-day return guarantee so if they show up once they get the set home, they can return it.

Quote:
Rollercoasters have another flaw though: Occasionally they kill people. In fact, it's possible that lightning can strike a rollercoaster and fry someone. I've never heard of it happening and have no reason to believe it will happen. Should I warn my friends of the possibility?

This is my feeling on your comment that you wish you'd known about this plasma problem you are having.

People are entitled to reasonable information about things that are reasonably likely. That's why prescription drugs warn you about side effects that are only experienced by 1-2% of users. But they don't generally say, "You may have a freakish allergy to the coating used on these pills. We're not away such an allegrgy is possible or will ever be experience, but, hey, we want you to be informed."
I never said "I wish someone had warned me about RBE on plasmas." I said "I wish I'd known it was possible." Which perhaps was a poor choice of words, what I meant was, if this or any TV has an issue that others have experienced, I want to know about it so I can decide if it affects me and make a good purchase choice accordingly. I'd never heard a report of RBE on a plasma before, and since I bought this model within a week of it arriving in stores, there is no realistic way I could expect someone else to have noticed and reported the issue before I bought. I said "I wish I knew about the problem ahead of time" in the same sense that I might say "I wish I'd known what those lottery numbers last night were gonna be," not because I expected anyone to know it ahead of time, but only because that knowledge would have led me to do things differently.

Quote:
If it turns out you've found a glitch in one or more displays, then you are doing people a service. If you keep comparing this to the rainbow effect -- which it still isn't -- you are doing a horrible dis-service to people. I tell would-be DLP buyers to spend some time with the sets, that some people are bothered by things about watching them. If they ask me what those things are, I very briefly mention that they see rainbows dancing on the screen, but that the effect is something most people never see at all.

It doesn't help to make people paranoid about nothing.
I can assure you that what I'm seeing is not "nothing." I don't care what you want to call it, but as far as I'm concerned, if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's a duck. A rainbow by any other name will still be just as distracting and annoying. If the forum isn't here for people to discuss issues and problems they've experienced which may affect others, then what IS it for? I, for one, do come here to find out about any possible problems a particular brand or model I've been looking at might have. I read all about Panasonic green issues before buying. Did it make me a little paranoid? Yeah. So I looked for it, and I couldn't see it, and I stopped worrying about. I also read about DLP rainbows before I bought one of those. I looked for them in the store, could only barely notice them when I tried by flickering my eyes around. I decided it wouldn't be a problem. Then I got the set home and started seeing them all over the place within a few days. I'm certain I would have seen them if I'd never read about them previously, because obviously I'm quite sensitive to it. But at least when they showed up I knew what it was, and I knew there was nothing that could be done to fix it and so I returned the set. I believe the people who read these forums are much more discerning than the average TV buyer and want to know about these things. I also trust the readers of this and other "problem" threads to use them together with all other information at their disposal to make the most informed decision possible, rather than getting paranoid over every possible issue. Then again, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Quote:
I just picked up my new car today. It has a defective windshield. There is an optical distortion. It's minor, but it will drive me bats. I need it fixed on my car. I doubt anyone else's car would have the problem. I'm not going to say, "Hey, window distortion on the XYZ Motors Zoomerator -- is new enginer to blame?" And I'm sure as heck not going to insist it's the same problem as some other car that has a blind spot by design -- even though both are related to visibility.
This is a poor analogy and you know it. For one thing, no one could ever possibly confuse a blind spot and a distorted windshield. You're implying once again that I don't seem to be able to tell the difference between RBE and what I'm seeing on my plasma. I've said this a thousand times already it seems, but I'll repeat it one last time: I've seen RBE on DLP and what I'm seeing on my plasma is the EXACT SAME THING. The only difference is that I only observe the blue color separation; the red and green don't separate. The cause may be different but the EFFECT is the SAME. Different technologies can experience motion blur for different reasons, but it's still motion blur regardless of what the underlying cause is. I don't know what the cause of this effect on the plasma is; I guessed SPC, which may or may not have anything to do with it, but that's why I asked it as a question, rather than stating it as a fact. Other people have posited other theories and I'm open to any of them. But to go with your analogy a little further, let's say you DID post your "Zoomerator" thread. And then someone else posted that their Zoomerator also had a distorted windshield. And then someone with a different XYZ Motors model, and someone with a different brand of car entirely but which used the same glass maker for their windshields, also had the problem. Wouldn't you then think that maybe your car wasn't unique, maybe it was possible the glass maker was turning out some bad windshields, and you should consider replacing the windshield with one from a different maker? I posted my experience with this TV, and others have posted similar experiences. Whether the cause is a design flaw that affects all sets but only affects a small number of people, similar to color wheel technology, or whether it's a manufacturing issue that affects only a percentage of the sets, like the Panny green push issue, I'll let people read the thread and decide which they believe to be the case.

Quote:
You are choosing a different path. I wish you great luck with finding a resolution.
I've found a resolution, which is returning the set. It's not the resolution I had hoped for when I started this thread, but it seems to be the only one available to me.
post #58 of 140
I have not observed this RBE like effect on my TH-50PX50U. I have observed "green-push" when the display uses the Standard default picture setting. This was easily corrected by adjusting the Color & Tint picture controls. I believe if you look hard enough... eventually you can find some problem with any big screen display no matter what technology is employed. If your eye is too 'hypercritical" you'll wind up always searching for flaws rather than enjoying the show.
post #59 of 140
Rogo, for the first time I have to completely disagree with you.

Please don't be "hung-up" on the technicality of how RBE occurs on a DLP and accept the fact that a similar "visual effect" is happening on his plasma.

Although you may have vast general technical expertise, you do not know the intricacies of the Panny's px50u build (hardware and software) nor you have the advanced knowledge of phosphorous emission to de-facto dismiss this possible "similar" effect (perceived by the human eye).

It could be specific to Eof1's eyes, his PDP alone or to all Panny px50u PDPs. Am very glad he reported it as I'm about to purchase one and want to be informed of and educated on all possible problems.... so "I" can make my own personal judgement on these matters when I get my Panny plasma.

And the roller coaster analogy is off point (IMHO).
post #60 of 140
I do not think that empire sees this kind of rainbows on a plasma because of differences in phosphor glow times. I see Rainbows on many DLPs including 5x speed with RGB RGB wheels. I also see green trails following my mouse pointer on a crt monitor (no it ist not a really old one it is an LG Flatron from 2001). These effects are really worlds apart. I would not so much mind the discoloration but the quick flashes make the Rainbow Effect untolerable to me. Thanks empire for informing us about your findings. By the way i also see flickering on many plasma tv sets. Oh just to make at clear i do not mean to bash plasma tv set owners. I really think that many sets are very good.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Flat Panels General and OLED Technology › Rainbow Effect on Panny PX50 Plasma - is sub-pixel controller to blame?