"Official" Marantz 7400/7500/8400/8500 thread - Page 9

There are also other indications beside the speaker diagram to work from.

When you play your track, teknoguy, what appears above the speaker diagram on the display?

You will probably in all cases see a red "double-D" DIGITAL icon. This will be displayed for all DVDs with "Dolby Digital" sound, be it mono, 2.0, 4.0 (aka "Dolby Surround"), 5.1 and 6.1.

But is there anything above it? If you see a blue "double-D" SURROUND icon you know the audio stream is definitely in Dolby Surround (4.0) and has been specifically encoded as such. The SURROUND indication will be OFF when you're listening to a 5.1 or 6.1 track.

The fact that you can't select Dolby Digital 5.1 in the DVD menu and only "Dolby Surround" is probably the determining factor. Perhaps the case advertising was in error? You can also cheat on some DVDs as many players can show you what soundtracks are on the DVD and can allow you to switch on-the-fly. The DVD player will often label the tracks appropriately, i.e. "ENG1 [double-D] 5.1", "ENG2 [double-D] 2.0", "FRE1 [double-D] 2.0" and so on. The "2.0" indication often means Dolby Surround, since Dolby Surround is always encoded in a 2-channel format, with the surround channels mixed in.

Regarding the speaker diagram discrepancy, that's kind of weird. It's always been accurate for me. I'll do some tests tonight.

It depends what you want. Looking around the web for the SR-7000, it appears that the SR-7000 is a 5.1 Dolby Digital/DTS/Pro-Logic receiver.

The 7400/8400 adds:

- Dolby Digital EX, DTS-ES (6.1 matrix and discrete)
- Dolby Pro-Logic IIx (7.1 matrix for all input sound formats, including Dolby Digital 5.1)
- a better remote
- one more coaxial digital input
- OSD (I think the 7000 probably doesn't have it)

So if you were thinking of sticking with 5.1 speakers, the only feature that's really added is Dolby Pro-Logic II (not IIx with 5.1 speakers though). This is a considerable upgrade over Pro-Logic if you use this soundfield a lot.

If you were thinking of upgrading to 7.1, then the 7400/8400 would be a great upgrade.

BTW my 7400 will be coming up for sale shortly.

This is 4.0 Dolby Surround delivered via a Dolby Digital 2.0 stream.


I just tried this out on my 8400. This is entirely normal for a Dolby Surround track. Yes, there should be a C channel, but there isn't on the diagram. Doesn't matter, your C channel should be working perfectly.

The "S" channel denotes surround. In a Dolby Surround 4.0 track, you have L, C, R and mono surrounds. Dolby Pro-Logic will decode the surrounds as mono. Dolby Pro-Logic II will decode the surrounds as stereo. Dolby Pro-Logic IIx will steer this sound over the 4 speakers. (SL, SBL, SBR, SR). So a Dolby Surround soundtrack decoded with the "original" decoder for Dolby Surround (Dolby Pro-Logic) would have the surrounds in mono - hence only one surround, "S".

This does not mean those speakers aren't active - this is just the data that's being read off the disc.


They are tricky, no doubt about that. But if they say "5.1 Dolby Surround" it's actually Dolby Surround, which can be decoded as 5.0 with Dolby Pro-Logic II and 7.0 with Pro-Logic IIx. Not discrete though, and there is no ".1" track with Dolby Surround.

Note they did not say "Dolby Digital 5.1". If they don't specifically say Dolby Digital 5.1 it isn't in DD 5.1.

It's considered Dolby Digital 2.0 - and in fact, your DVD player may label the track as such. It should say "ENG1 [double-D] 2.0 CH". That does mean you get to benefit from the increased dynamic range DD has to offer. And with a digital source, channel separation is VERY good.

So your receiver is operating fine, your DVD player is operating fine, but your DVD isn't quite what you expected.

I'll work on getting some digicam shots of my receiver display with different formats.

I'm having some minor warranty work done on it so it'll be in top shape when I sell it. The headphone output didn't work and one optical door is missing. Operationally and cosmetically it's flawless.

It's been in for 2 weeks now, it should be almost ready.

I haven't decided on price yet. I have to see what the going rate is. Put it this way, I do want to sell it, I don't want to hold on to it for months while I try to make an extra buck. So the price will be fair.

I'll PM you when I do some more research regarding price and when I get the unit back and test it for you.

This is of an 8400 - the 7400's display is identical. I apologize for the tilt. The camera was mounted on a tripod - I think the act of pressing the shutter pressed the tripod into the carpet, tipping it slightly. I also am not practiced enough with GIMP to be able to rotate an image and have a black background appear in the "new" section.

The first photo is of a Dolby Digital 2.0 stream that's NOT encoded with a Dolby Surround flag. This does not mean it's not in Dolby Surround as the matrixed-in tracks can be "snuck" (sneaked?) in there without the receiver being able to tell - and it doesn't matter since it's decoded in Dolby Pro-Logic IIx which will extract any matrixed data present. Note the presence of the red "double-D DIGITAL" icon and that the decoding format is "DOLBY PLIIx MV" (Dolby Pro-Logic IIx Movie).

The second photo is of a Dolby Digital 2.0 stream that's encoded with a Dolby Surround flag. Note the appearance of a blue "double-D SURROUND" icon above the red "double-D DIGITAL" icon and the addition of the "S" speaker, denoting the surround channels matrix-encoded in mono. But this "surround" matrix channel is decoded as stereo in Dolby Pro-Logic II and over 4 speakers with Dolby Pro-Logic IIx. Note that the decoding format is still "DOLBY PLIIx MV" - yours should be too, or "DOLBY PLII MV" if you don't have rear speakers. I incorrectly called this format Dolby Surround 4.0. There's no such thing since with Dolby Surround, the 3rd and 4th channels aren't discrete. Only the L and R channels are truly discrete, all the others are extracted from them. So it's all Dolby Digital 2.0, it's just that there may be additional matrix data there.

I suppose this is inconsistent - if the "C" isn't there, the "S" shouldn't be there either as only the L and R channels are discrete. Oh well.

The third photo is a Dolby Digital 5.1 stream decoded in Dolby Pro-Logic IIx. Again we have the "red double-D" icon but note the "C", "LFE" (in the centre), "SL" and "SR" channels. Also note that the decoding format has now switched to "DD+PLIIx MV" - Dolby Digital decoded with Dolby Pro-Logic IIx to add two rear channels. It could also be set to "DOLBY D" as an option or if you're operating in 5.1. Even though PLIIx is adding rear channels, they don't show up on the speaker diagram as the speaker diagram is attempting to show what's on the disc rather than what the receiver is doing.

The last photo is Dolby Digital EX, 6.1 matrix. The only differences between this and Dolby Digital 5.1 is the addition of the blue "EX" text to the right of the red "double-D DIGITAL" icon and the reappearance of the "S" speaker, this time meaning the rear surrounds. Dolby Digital EX is just like Dolby Digital 2.0 with a Dolby Surround flag. Only 5.1 channels are discrete, the 6th one is matrixed in and the receiver can properly decode it whether or not the EX flag is present.

Some discs are encoded in EX but don't have the flag. I'm sure there are some Dolby Digital 2.0 discs that don't have the Dolby Surround flag yet are encoded in Dolby Surround. Again, it doesn't matter if the discs are decoded in Dolby Pro-Logic IIx as it will extract any matrixed data if present.

DTS, DTS-ES discrete (sorry, no matrix), PCM and analog screenshots available on request.

In summary, the speaker diagram indicates the data on the disc, not what the receiver is decoding.

There's nothing purposefully underhanded, it's a bit confusing and deceptive though.

They can say "Dolby Digital" when they mean Dolby Digital mono or Dolby Digital 2.0. However, it will only be Dolby Digital 5.1 when they specifically say "Dolby Digital 5.1." If they say "Dolby Surround 5.1" then it's Dolby Digital 2.0 with a matrix-encoded 4-channel surround track that can be decoded in 5-channel or 7-channel.

It's confusing.


Good idea but note that the 7400 and 8400 are not THX certified and don't have these modes.

To be honest, this is the first I've heard of the term "Dolby Surround 5.1" as it's really a misnomer - as soon as you insert the term "Surround" in there it means a stereo track (Dolby Digital 2.0) with matrix-encoded surround information.

Most discs encoded this way properly use just "Dolby Surround". I'm specifically thinking of Blade Runner: The Director's Cut which one of the very few major releases not in Dolby Digital 5.1.

They are still allowed to put the Dolby Digital logo on the package because it is Dolby Digital 2.0 (not sure if they do on Blade Runner), but they are not allowed to say "Dolby Digital 5.1" if it isn't Dolby Digital 5.1.

The THX demo loop is usually in Dolby Digital 5.1. Your display should look like the DD 5.1 display.

I don't know if there are any Dolby Digital EX THX demos. They certainly aren't on the Star Wars Episodes 4-6 DVDs, which are in Dolby Digital EX. You'd think if the movie was in DD EX the demo would be too, so I'm guessing there aren't any DD EX THX demos right now.

I've found the Autosurround function rather useless on my 8400 (my 7400 was identical).

For example, with TV sources it defaults to STEREO. Kinda silly - why not DOLBY PLIIx MV?

Since it remembers the last setting on each source, I don't have to play much with it anymore. I leave the TV input set to DOLBY PLIIx MV and the DVD to DD+PLIIx MV. The only automatic switching it does is during the transition from the DVD menu (usually in DD 2.0) to the movie in DD 5.1. It will switch from DOLBY PLIIx MV to DD+PLIIx MV when this happens.

I don't have to touch the double-D button anymore.

Both my 7400 and 8400 remember the last setting on each input.

cmexec - what does your 8500's auto-surround setting pick for:

- analog 2-channel sources? Is it DOLBY PLII MV (since the unit's in 5.1)?

- DD 2.0? DOLBY PLII MV?

- DD 5.1? DOLBY D?