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X3 review coming. - Page 3  

post #61 of 99
Anyone know what the actual used "pixel count" (resolution?) would be for the X1, 4805 and X3 for HDTV viewing and DVD for 16:9 and 4:3?

Just curious what I would actually gain with an X1 to X3 upgrade? Maybe go with the 4805 if not that great?

Thanks....
post #62 of 99
yeah, it aint quite that easy, but starting salaries for folks with my background have crept to $300,000 according to a Washington Post story this week (and according to the head hunters. Seeing as the federal maximum salary is $152,400 and the price of a 3br house in a good school district is north of $800,000 and you can understand why I'm still focused on value projectors.
post #63 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by rangersjay99
Anyone know what the actual used "pixel count" (resolution?) would be for the X1, 4805 and X3 for HDTV viewing and DVD for 16:9 and 4:3?

Just curious what I would actually gain with an X1 to X3 upgrade? Maybe go with the 4805 if not that great?

Thanks....
In 16:9 Mode
X1 is 800x450 = 360,000
4805 is 854x480 (native for the 4805 of course) = 409,920
x3 is 1024x576 = 589,824
post #64 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ja Phule
In 16:9 Mode
X1 is 800x450 = 360,000
4805 is 854x480 (native for the 4805 of course) = 409,920
x3 is 1024x576 = 589,824
Yep. In my (and other anamorphic lens owners) case:

In 16:9 Mode:
X1 = 800x600 = 480,000
4805 = 854x480 = 409,920
X3 = 1024x768 = 786,432

That's why this little 4x3 PJ looks so great to me right now...
post #65 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsm88
yeah, it aint quite that easy, but starting salaries for folks with my background have crept to $300,000 according to a Washington Post story this week (and according to the head hunters. Seeing as the federal maximum salary is $152,400 and the price of a 3br house in a good school district is north of $800,000 and you can understand why I'm still focused on value projectors.
I'm sorry, but are you saying you're pullin in over $300,000 a year, and then complaining about your mortgage? Not trying to flame or anything, just trying to see if my eyes work right. Heck, if you wanna trade me that job even at $152,400 just tell me where to lineup.
post #66 of 99
Not to mention Whisper Mode. Wish my X1 had that....
post #67 of 99
no tommy not pulling in 300 - like i said, IF i was lobbying.

150 when you've got a family does not pay for a mortgage on a house with less then an hour commute in this town. I've got staff in another state who, at 80 a year own homes that I would kill for - where you live these days says a lot more about how you live then what you make. It is now possible to buy a TWO bedroom, <2000 sq ft. home in this city for over $1M. It aint SF or Manhattan, but they have reasonably close suburbs that don't cost a fortune. Seriously, I've had realtors trying to sell me on living in WEST VIRGINIA, and I've got two staffers who take 90 minute train rides each day to get to work.

THis is all OT, but by way of saying that not every value pj customer is a college student.
post #68 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsm88
...<snip>...This is all OT, but by way of saying that not every value pj customer is a college student.
<off topic>

Yep. I qualify, as well. Where you live and the associated overhead make all the difference.

</off topic>

I'm interested to find out how many other X1/anamorphic lens folks are looking seriously at the X3 as a short-term fix while awaiting the drop in 1280x720 DLP's.

In the meantime...reviews!
post #69 of 99
Man, all I gotta say is you Yanks pull in some huge bucks...even if you have to PAY huge bucks. In Calgary the realty market is going through the roof, and in the burbs yer a 1/2 hr drive away from anywhere with the average house going for $250K...that's CDN...so that's under 200K US. Again, that's OT

now ON topic, for a starter PJ using the darkchip, I just don't understand the hub-bub about the X3. The only good thing would be if you were a big 4:3 fan, IMO. Sure there's extra brightness too, but not SO much that it would be a deal breaker for the 4805 I think.
post #70 of 99
well

some of us still view a fair amount of 4/3, and on top of the rest of the issues, the 4/3 pic on the 4805 is going to be pretty small unless you can manage a longer throw then most of us have available.

and the x3 with a panamorph has substantially greater resolution then then the 4805

and the greater brightness happens to be right at the breaking point for good ambient light sports viewing - like watching the super bowl with friends and not feeling like you're at an 8th grade make-out party (ie. low lights)

This last point is maybe my biggest issue - back when many popular pjs we're still crossovers I had hope that a quality pj would often also be a light cannon - 1500 lumens or more. Now it seems that all the <3000 HT pjs are anemic 1000 lumen or less which is fine in a dark room, but not for the kind of conditions when my X1 shines (no pun intended). Yeah, yeah, you shouldn't use a pj with ambient light - keep saying that and keep this hobby as marginal as possible (and the prices commensurably high) - my X1 has made an excellent television replacement with my wife reading the paper on the couch while I watch Deadwood. I would like more resolution and true HD and an even bigger picture, but I'm not going to give up usability to get it - and I shouldn't have to. With careful lighting design and a grey screen there is no reason why a pj can't work just fine in a living room - and it has been. Sure it looks even better with the lights off, but the improvement is incremental, not night and day. I sure as heck won't get that with the hs51, no matter how pretty the picture.
post #71 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsm88
well

some of us still view a fair amount of 4/3, and on top of the rest of the issues, the 4/3 pic on the 4805 is going to be pretty small unless you can manage a longer throw then most of us have available.

and the x3 with a panamorph has substantially greater resolution then then the 4805

and the greater brightness happens to be right at the breaking point for good ambient light sports viewing - like watching the super bowl with friends and not feeling like you're at an 8th grade make-out party (ie. low lights)

This last point is maybe my biggest issue - back when many popular pjs we're still crossovers I had hope that a quality pj would often also be a light cannon - 1500 lumens or more. Now it seems that all the <3000 HT pjs are anemic 1000 lumen or less which is fine in a dark room, but not for the kind of conditions when my X1 shines (no pun intended). Yeah, yeah, you shouldn't use a pj with ambient light - keep saying that and keep this hobby as marginal as possible (and the prices commensurably high) - my X1 has made an excellent television replacement with my wife reading the paper on the couch while I watch Deadwood. I would like more resolution and true HD and an even bigger picture, but I'm not going to give up usability to get it - and I shouldn't have to. With careful lighting design and a grey screen there is no reason why a pj can't work just fine in a living room - and it has been. Sure it looks even better with the lights off, but the improvement is incremental, not night and day. I sure as heck won't get that with the hs51, no matter how pretty the picture.
The X3 is 1600 lumens in presentation mode in hi power mode. It is 1100 lumens in low power and presentation mode. I don't think anyone wanting to use the x3 as an ht projector will watch it in presentation mode. I think the estimated lumen output was stated to be less than 40% of the presentation output. That would put the x3 at under 450 lumens in video/film mode with low power.

The biggest advantage imho the x3 has over the 4805 is the extra resolution, meaning you can sit a little closer for viewing. The 2x 4 segment color wheel is going to limit its ability to get its contrast up to the levels the 4805 can achieve.
post #72 of 99
1600 in presentation mode

1100 lumens in video mode

yes, you can calibrate it down even further, but you don't need to in a room with some light, the point is, you've got the power there if you need it. Can't say the same for the sony - it's downright sad what happens to that picture if you so much as crack the door to the bathroom with the light on.

for the record I have never used my x1 in presentation mode, it was still brighter and more resistant to ambient then any of the 720p pjs I've seen so far (sanyo, sony, panny and tosh)
post #73 of 99
1600 max ANSI lumens (standard mode) • 1100 max ANSI lumens (whisper mode)

Thats from the infocus website.

The x1/4800 was measured around 300 lumens after calibration in the 4805/4800/H30/7205 comparison here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...68#post4096268
post #74 of 99
well, I guess it's a good thing I don't calibrate it down as dimly as they did, since mine has always been brighter then the 4805/ae700/hs51/ and z2s I've a/b'd it with. Of course, since that also matches the absolute lumens reported for each projector I'll trust my own observations over a single test. Given that noir is my favorite film type black level is important to me - I don't run up the brightness, my x1 is set about 56.

The x2/3 also runs a higher powered, non-interchangeable bulb compared to the 4805, so to say it doesn't put more light on the screen just does not follow logically, regardless of what one measurement came up with. I may not trust factory specs in general, but I know brightness when I see it.
post #75 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ja Phule
1600 max ANSI lumens (standard mode) • 1100 max ANSI lumens (whisper mode)

Thats from the infocus website.

The x1/4800 was measured around 300 lumens after calibration in the 4805/4800/H30/7205 comparison here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...68#post4096268
One thing to keep in mind though, is the 4800 used in that test had an older bulb than the rest of the projectors tested. I don't remember the exact number, but as I recall the 4800 bulb had 700 hours or so on it.

Dave G.
post #76 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ja Phule
In 16:9 Mode
X1 is 800x450 = 360,000
4805 is 854x480 (native for the 4805 of course) = 409,920
x3 is 1024x576 = 589,824
Thanks for the info...

Seems like a pretty substantial increase for the X3, even in 16:9 mode...

Decisions, decisions, decisions....
post #77 of 99
Is there going to be a huge difference between the 4x color wheel in the 4805 and the 2x wheel in the X3, because that extra resolution is really, really tempting.


also, if i plan on playing playstation 2 on my new projector, would the X3 or the 4805 be better suited for that through a component input?

Last question, Since the X3 doesn't have dedicated component inputs, is the adapter for the svideo port or the DVI port? And do you still get the same quality through component as if it were a dedicated input?
post #78 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrpmission
...<snip>...if i plan on playing playstation 2 on my new projector, would the X3 or the 4805 be better suited for that through a component input?
If you are gaming (rather than watching DVD's) over 50% of the time, you should read the following:

I'll deal with the "component input" part of your question after this:

I'm not a gamer, just a 'puter/HT geek, so correct me if anything here is wrong. Since the PS2 is 4:3 native, the X3 would be far superior to the 4805 (edit: resolution terms). Truth be told, even the X1 is superior to the 4805 (in resolution terms, anyway) for gaming material in 4:3 since it's using all available pixels in 4:3 (4805 will crop left and right).

In 4:3 Mode:
X1 = 800x600 = 480,000
4805 = 640x480 = 307,200 (pillar-boxed)
X3 = 1024x768 = 786,432

Keep in mind, though, if the game machine does not feed a progressive signal via its component output, you will have to use the svid port to play the game (XBox can be played via the component/RGB input, but you lose the dashboard).

Quote:
Originally Posted by wrpmission
Last question, Since the X3 doesn't have dedicated component inputs, is the adapter for the svideo port or the DVI port? And do you still get the same quality through component as if it were a dedicated input?
OK, Here's the rub: Since the PS2 has to use the svid input (as mentioned above), you will probably be better off using an X1 than the X3. The 800x600 res of the X1 would still look better than the 1024x768 of the X3 because of the Faroudja processing (which the X3 lacks).

If you are going to use the PJ for DVD/Gaming (50%+/50%-), then the 4805 may be your best bet.
post #79 of 99
This ia a quote from the Circuit City on the X3:

Beautiful picture: DLPâ„¢ digital technology provides superior color and contrast, as well as sharp-at-any-size imaging. Featuring 1024 x 768 XGA resolution, a stunning 2000:1 contrast ratio and automatic de-interlacing, this projector provides smooth, true-to-life images that jump off the screen.

Automatic De-Interlacing? Isn't that the Faroudja's job (which is MIA on this unit) or am I missing something? CC has these in stock, since we can't seem to get a real review I'm tempted to go get one and let it earn it's keep. I can either keep it if it rocks (and eBay my beloved X1) or send it back to CC (love their return policy!). Either way I can then whet the appetites of all those looking for a review. Just gotta find a free weekend.... :)
post #80 of 99
Just out of curiosity, which WP had the salary article this week (I had to work late several nights this past week and didn't get a chance to read the paper every day)?

TIA.
post #81 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itsdon
This ia a quote from the Circuit City on the X3:

Beautiful picture: DLPâ„¢ digital technology provides superior color and contrast, as well as sharp-at-any-size imaging. Featuring 1024 x 768 XGA resolution, a stunning 2000:1 contrast ratio and automatic de-interlacing, this projector provides smooth, true-to-life images that jump off the screen.

Automatic De-Interlacing? Isn't that the Faroudja's job (which is MIA on this unit) or am I missing something? CC has these in stock, since we can't seem to get a real review I'm tempted to go get one and let it earn it's keep. I can either keep it if it rocks (and eBay my beloved X1) or send it back to CC (love their return policy!). Either way I can then whet the appetites of all those looking for a review. Just gotta find a free weekend.... :)
Every digital projector is a progressive display, and will deinterlace any input it receives automatically. Just not every display will use a Faroudja chip to do the deinterlacing. This isn't to say the deinterlacer being used is bad, but it could be. The Optoma models use a Pixelworks chip for deinterlacing and those seem to work very well also. I imagine Infocus would mention Faroudja DCDi somewhere in specs or press releases should the X3 use one, but this does not seem to be the case.
post #82 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itsdon
This ia a quote from the Circuit City on the X3:

I can either keep it if it rocks (and eBay my beloved X1) or send it back to CC (love their return policy!). Either way I can then whet the appetites of all those looking for a review. Just gotta find a free weekend.... :)
I am not sure what you mean by a good return policy. I wanted to do the same thing (get the x3 and try it out) but when i asked them about returning it they said a 15% re-stocking fee will be charged. I am not willing to spend $150 to try it out. Did CC tell you something else?
post #83 of 99
Get the manager of the store to sign the statement affirming that there will be no restocking fee if that is what the salesman is saying.
post #84 of 99
I bought and tried a 4805 from Circuit City and returned it after 3 movies, absolutley no problem. They may have different policies in different areas but the CC in San Jose has never blinked at anything - they're great. The 4805 was definitely better than my X1, it just wasn't THAT much better to justify the price. I'm still waiting for the next big thing..... X3?
post #85 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itsdon
Automatic De-Interlacing? Isn't that the Faroudja's job (which is MIA on this unit) or am I missing something? CC has these in stock, since we can't seem to get a real review I'm tempted to go get one and let it earn it's keep. I can either keep it if it rocks (and eBay my beloved X1) or send it back to CC (love their return policy!). Either way I can then whet the appetites of all those looking for a review. Just gotta find a free weekend.... :)
All digital projectors have de-interlacing, the only question is the quality of the processing. Some do an OK job, the Faroudja does a great job (for the cost).
post #86 of 99
Going on 2 months and still no solid "real life" info.....

CC has them now, but my local stores want the 15% restocking fee.....

Ready to pull the trigger though.....
post #87 of 99
Can't find one without a restocking fee either.

With a 1080i ae800 coming in September I may just wait (that was just for you poet :D )
post #88 of 99
I have an X-1, and a 4805 and we just picked up an X-3 at my work. So this isn't side by side (which it ought to be) but my observations. The X-3 is bright in presentation mode, and visibly sharper than my 4805. (I had used it here at work a few times and looking at the same material I could see the X-3 was sharper.) It DOES NOT have component input. You need an adapter to use either component or DVI. (yeah I was using video from the computer on both the 4805 and X-3 so it was a fair comparison). I put a DVD on it, and I noticed rainbows. Now two things, I am not one who ordinarily sees rainbows, but did. More importantly, in high power modes you are more likely to see rainbows, and it was in high power mode - still.... I won't be giving up my 4805 for the increased sharpness and resolution of the X-3!
post #89 of 99
The "and visibly sharper than my 4805" sounds promising for using the X3 for HDTV.

I never saw rainbows with the X1 so, "assuming" I would be OK there.... :)

X3 is sounding better.....
post #90 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsm88
no tommy not pulling in 300 - like i said, IF i was lobbying.

150 when you've got a family does not pay for a mortgage on a house with less then an hour commute in this town.
Off Topic: Eh...$330K for 3BR rancher (on the small side - 1500 sq ft) on a 1/3 an acre in Columbia last year. Probably worth $400K now. 45-50 mins from Columbia to Anacostia/Blue Plains area in normal rush hour (ie no accident on 95 or the parkway).

33 mins when I drive like a maniac around 10am. I was...er...late for a meeting.

You can live in the DC area for $150K annual family income in a good (more or less) school district. At the time we could have purchased in the covetted Centennial school district with a bigger (about 2000 sq ft) albeit older and wierder house.

On Topic: My brother in law is probably buying the X3...I'll set it up next to my ancient M20X and see how well it works in comparison.

Nigel
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