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Panasonic DMR-ES10 Reviewed  

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
Finally I got some time to put my hands on the new DMR- ES10 and I can positively conclude that the new breed of the Panasonic DVD recorders is better then the old models. The new 12-bit technology is giving real results. Recordings done with Panasonic DMR-E60 and DMR-ES10, compared side by side, show that the newer recorder is able to record and reproduced video images with better fidelity. The difference is not drastic, but as already seen with Sony’s recordings, it is evident as more faithful reproduction of the details in both bright and dark parts of the scenes with better and more vibrant colors. Pictures were checked on a Sony CRT monitor in order to avoid usual artifacts from LCD and plasma screens.

The quality of this new model surpasses anything that Panasonic made up to date and I would not be surprised if this year it will dethrone Sony and will win the “European DVD recorder of the Year†title.

For more information about my take on DMR-ES10 please go to:

http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=272629
post #2 of 15
This machine is without a doubt one of the best DVD Recorders.

However it saves all the best functions (Editing adverts / Recording Widescreen /Chapter Marks / Quick Start up etc....) for RAM Disc's only. This is fine as long as the person buying it is aware of this and doesn't find out the hard way.


Please see this review to confirm this:

http://reviews.cnet.com/Panasonic_DM...2.html?tag=top
post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 
I agree with you, but we should understand that this is the most basic DVD recorder offered by Panasonic. This is a model for somebody that needs a machine for straight, high quality recording. If you want anything more than that, then you have to look for other, more expensive offerings from this company.
post #4 of 15
Any thoughts on the quality of the recordings made from the internal cable tuner? I have read that it leaves a lot to be desired compared to the similar priced Pioneer recorders.

thx

peter
post #5 of 15
Thread Starter 
The recording quality of the Pioneer recorders is not the real match for the Panasonic models. I am not saying that it is not good, but today, Sony, Panasonic and JVC are better performers.

Unfortunately, compared with the first generation of their recorders, Pioneer didn’t improve the A/D encoding significantly. Consequently, even today, the digital artifacts (most of the time noticeable as the “solarization†video effect) are more vivid then the competitor’s machines even at the 2Hr-recording mode. This kind of performance was especially a big disappointment for me since I was looking forward to buying a Pioneer DVD recorder. And I was not alone … I am in the video production and postproduction business for over 20 years and for the last 15 years I had numerous contacts with many broadcast and special events video studios in Toronto. In the beginning every studio had the Pioneer standalone DVD recorders - anyway, they were the only available models. Those machines were excellent in 1Hr mode, but we have never been completely satisfied with the 2Hr mode of recording. That is why we were looking forward to the new Pioneer products…I don’t have to say that we were not amused with the recording quality of the next generation. Even the numerous filters, real time picture quality control and the new flexible recording couldn’t make the desirable quality come to reality. That is why 90% of the studios in the Toronto area, that I am aware of, bought the Panasonic recorders for their professional work. Recently, with the introduction of the Sony DVD recorders, and their version of the 12-bit technology, some of the studios started to replace the aging Panasonics with Sony models. Since I had a first hand experience with an older Panasonic model, as well as the new Sony recorders, I can predict that the lower price and the increased quality of the recording will make Panasonic again the most popular brand among the video professionals in Toronto.
post #6 of 15
Panasonic has its share of detractors due to the quality of its proprietary MPEG encoder. It's a criticism most publicized by a mod at Videohelp, but it seems to be shared by a fair number of others who dig into such technical details.

Having said that, Panasonic seems to have emerged a leader in other areas of innovation and I understand that for the price, you could do a lot worse than this machine. It's just worth noting that it may not be the perfect solution some are making it out to be. Personally, the lack of a DV firewire input is the deal killer for me.

Nicely written review though. Very detailed. Bravo.
post #7 of 15
Thread Starter 
I bought the Panasonic DMR-E60 because of the provided DV input. I thought that the DV port is a “must†option that I did not have the luxury to pass on. Can you imagine my surprise when I found out that I like the recordings from the analog input better then from the DV!

For testing purposes, I made several recordings for my clients from both inputs - and everybody decided to keep the “analog†recording!

I don’t have to tell you that from that day on, the DV input was left to collect dust… as I wondered… what I could have bought with the extra money I spent on an option that I don’t use…
post #8 of 15
My take on the ES-10:

No position memory – does not hold its place when powered off

CM Skip and Time Slip do not work on finalized discs

CM Skip works only forward, and only 1 minute at a time

Large front panel display, easy to read

Front panel display does not show chapters

Many FF options, up to 200x
post #9 of 15
" With the implemented TBC now it is possible to have several picture modes: Normal (default setting), Soft (soft picture with few video artifacts), Fine (sharper details) and Cinema (enhances detail in dark scenes). For further reduction of the picture degradation there is also an MPEG-DNR circuit that can be switched ON or OFF. "
Zoran- Is this for playback or tape input(VCR) recording to disc. Must a disc be playing to set these modes? What should we set them on? Is the default for "Line in NR" and "Mpeg-DNR' " on"??(page 25 of manual- Thanks
post #10 of 15
Thread Starter 
- The default setting for Dynamic Noise Reduction (Line-in NR) is Automatic.
If you are not familiar with the quality of the video that you want to convert, leave this setting at that position. Personally, I would never set it to ON without prior testing of the recorded video. I noticed that this setting will produce unwanted artifacts similar to “solarization†video effect if it is used on good quality video signals.

Switching between Auto and Off setting didn’t affect the quality of the recording from the high quality video feed (Betacam SP and DVCam players).

- The default setting for the MPEG-DNR is ON. I would suggest to any inexperienced user of this machine to leave the setting on that position permanently.

- The default setting for the picture mode is Normal. If you prefer sharper picture then use Fine setting and if you are under the impression that you are seeing some digital artifacts on the screen then use a Soft setting.
post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorankarapancev
I bought the Panasonic DMR-E60 because of the provided DV input. I thought that the DV port is a “must†option that I did not have the luxury to pass on. Can you imagine my surprise when I found out that I like the recordings from the analog input better then from the DV!

For testing purposes, I made several recordings for my clients from both inputs - and everybody decided to keep the “analog†recording!

I don’t have to tell you that from that day on, the DV input was left to collect dust… as I wondered… what I could have bought with the extra money I spent on an option that I don’t use…
Can you tell us what was your source material/hardware used with the DV input?? Also, what was the issue that made analog better??
post #12 of 15
Thread Starter 
The sources were Sony DSR11 DVCam videocassette recorder and Sony DSR-300A DVCam broadcast video camera. The material was the original camera recording.

Since we were told that “digital to digital†conversion is superior to “analog to digital†all my initial DVD conversions from the digital videotapes were made through the DV input on my DVD recorder. It never came to mind that I should test all of the provided inputs before I start using them.

I would probably never compare the results of the recordings if one of my clients didn’t come back with the DVD transfer, complaining that “the picture is brighter that the original DV recordingâ€. Since he came back with his DV tape, we made a quick A/B roll of the DVD disc and the tape only to conclude that he had 20/20 vision. There was no other difference between the two pictures regarding the color fidelity, sharpness or any additional artifacts, except the fact that the picture made from the DV input was just bright enough to make a noticeable difference. Immediately we made another DVD recording, using the analog input on a DVD recorder. Compared to the DV tape, this recording was more true to the original image – the black was real black (not grayish/black) and the colors were deeper and livelier. To me, the difference between the DV and the Line input looked like a minute black level mismatch.

I can only assume that the analog/MPEG-2 conversion on my Panasonic DVD recorder is better then the DV/MPEG-2 conversion. Since the latest Panasonic DVD recorders do not have the DV-Input, it looks like the manufacturer is well aware of the difference in the performance of the digital and analog conversions and wisely decided to simply ignore the one that doesn’t add any significant quality to the recording, but only raises the price of their products.
post #13 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnivore
Panasonic has its share of detractors due to the quality of its proprietary MPEG encoder. It's a criticism most publicized by a mod at Videohelp, .
I assume your refering to "Lordsmurf"? At least when it comes to Panasonic I'd take what he says with a grain of salt ;) He bashes all of the Pannys at every opportunity, and even has a sticky at the top of the DVDR forum warning others how awful he thinks all the Pannys are :eek: It seems to me he is a little close minded and has an axe to grind :confused:

Technoid
post #14 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorankarapancev
- The default setting for Dynamic Noise Reduction (Line-in NR) is Automatic.
If you are not familiar with the quality of the video that you want to convert, leave this setting at that position. Personally, I would never set it to ON without prior testing of the recorded video. I noticed that this setting will produce unwanted artifacts similar to “solarization†video effect if it is used on good quality video signals.

Switching between Auto and Off setting didn’t affect the quality of the recording from the high quality video feed (Betacam SP and DVCam players).
Hmmm ... just got one of the ES10s today, and I cannot find this item in the rather arcane menu system. And I am using LN1, not tuner.

I would appreciate guidance on this topic.

Phil
post #15 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorankarapancev
I bought the Panasonic DMR-E60 because of the provided DV input. I thought that the DV port is a “must†option that I did not have the luxury to pass on. Can you imagine my surprise when I found out that I like the recordings from the analog input better then from the DV!

For testing purposes, I made several recordings for my clients from both inputs - and everybody decided to keep the “analog†recording!

I don’t have to tell you that from that day on, the DV input was left to collect dust… as I wondered… what I could have bought with the extra money I spent on an option that I don’t use…
I wonder if there is a difference if you minidv doesn't have svideo output, only composite video output. As soon as I get my Philips 3455 I'll run some tests.
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