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Just bought a Grafik Eye - any tricks or suggestions? - Page 2  

post #31 of 69
First lets get this LV wire out of the way.

http://www.lutron.com/applicationnotes/048060A.pdf

If you don't understand the wiring and applications, don't wire it yourself. Get a pro.

The 2nd box issue is up to you, I personally think that it is ridiculous to utilized this method when sizing the box correctly such as cinascope has suggested. (BTW this is the exact box that Lutron tells you to use at training) If you don't mind having a second box below your grafik eye blanked off then thats your perogitive, just don't cover it up that is a code violation and it's just plain not wise.
This whole issue of too many wires in the box and violating code is the issue that got me to respond. First before anyone says they think they know what the code issues are with box fill I would suggest that you don't post it unless you actually know how to calculate box fill per NEC. Giving someone incorrect advice on electrical wiring will just end up costing the person another inspection fee or worse.
Box fill calculation:
All ground wires collectively count as 1
Count all conductors and total
Each yolk counts as 2 (or count device screw holes)
times by factor:
14g- 2.00
12g- 2.25
10g- 2.50

Look inside of box, it should have a sticker or stamp with total cu, if your count total is under that of the box, it passes code.

Example:
2 gang box 37 cu in

3 14-2 wires coming in
1 14-3 wire coming in
2 dimmers

ground counts as 1
conductor count = 9
yolk count 4
total= 14
14 x 2.00 = 28 cu in
this example is allowable by code.
(NEC 314.16b)

If you intermix wire sizes in box that changes the formula. Just keep it simple.

Next it is permissable to utilize a 15 amp circuit for the grafik eye in most residential areas (only a few areas require all residential branch circuits to be 20 amp, that is a local jurisdiction thing that is rare) so check with local inspection authority just to make sure your area does not fall into that scenario.
The grafik eye unit is rated for 1920 watts total but 800 watts per zone only. If your total load is less than 1440 watts then you can utilize a 15 amp circuit.
As far as shorting a grafik eye on a metal box, you shouldn't be installing it hot anyway.
Stranded thhn is a great way to connect a grafik eye but you cant cut the wires short in the box to do it.
NEC 300.14 "Length of free conductors at outlets, junctions and switch points. At least 150mm (6 in) of free conductor, measured from the point in the box where it emerges from its raceway ar cable sheath, shall be left at each outlet, junction, and switch point for splices or the connection of luminaries (fixtures) or devices. Where the opening to an outlet, junction, or switch point is less than 200 mm (8 in) in any dimension, each conductor shall be long enough to extend at least 75mm (3 in) outside the opening.
exception: Conductors that are not spliced or terminated at the outlet, junction, or switch point shall not be required to comply with 300.14 "

The picture with the ground bar in the box was ridiculous, if I were you I would remove the link before you really get heckled.
The comment about wire nuts falling off are either due to too many wires (exceeding capacity of wirenut) or poor installation. These issues are from DIY'ers with no idea of how to safely terminate electrical wiring or poor quality pro installers (yes it happens)
Electricity is nothing to mess with if you do not have proper training I don't care what DIY'er says it's easy, at least get an instruction manual and read it, for the house you burn down just maybe your own (with your family in it too)
Fact: Most house fires are electrical related
Im done for now, I 've got to get out of the office.
post #32 of 69
Did'nt mean to double the code topic, I was writing while you were posting.
post #33 of 69
I was just trying to be helpful here...
3.5" deep steel masonry boxes are recommended by Lutron, both in the manual and in the GRX portion of the dozens of Lutron trainings I have attended as a long time integrator and Lutron HWI (HomeWorks Interactive) dealer. We currently use HWI processors and either panel mount or wallbox power modules, as this method offers much more power than even the top models of GRX.

A wallbox power module is very similar to a GRX in specification and installation, except it's specifically for the HWI system. Again with this model, they recommend 3.5" deep steel boxes like masonry boxes.

As for THHN, many of our jobs are stranded THHN in EMT conduit with steel boxes simply because of our proximity to Chicagoland where steel boxes and conduit are required for all high voltage wiring PERIOD.

Some of the areas a few counties out use romex, and I have romex in my own home.
I am not an electrician by trade and I don't use/order/buy a lot of romex, so my comment regarding /2 or /3 conductor romex was in ignorance. I'm sorry if I contributed to the confusion.

I don't know if I am the "reticent" one that DMF was speaking about, but it seems that no matter how well intentioned the advice, someone here has to throw flames and pros like Alan and myself certainly have better things to do than justify our advice...

I have a lot of respect for Dennis, he is on the short list of designers who have set many ofthe benchmarks of home theater design along with guys like Tony Grimani, Keith Yates and, of course, Theo Kalimirakis.

I just happen to disagree with Dennis on the 2 box method, and I DEFINITELY disagree on the plastic box application. If an electrician cannot install a device like a GRX without shorting the terminals, he is careless and IMO should be replaced immediately and all of his other work performed on the project should be inspected carefully.

If a homeowner is not capable of doing the work with the same care and integrity of a pro, or even willing to investigate the best methods and practices that pros use, then they should not be doing the work.

As for the flames, I usually let the comments slide, but in the case of electrical where home grown methods and errant practices can cause fire or death at worst, and inflated insurance claims a tthe least, I try to help steer the conversation back on track. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=551838

Most of the time people here on AVS appreciate the advice, but other times it is frustrating to be questioned by weekenders. Sometimes I feel like I should just sit back and let them do as they wish and get shocked (literally or figuratively) when an inspector freaks out. Whether or not you have pulled a permit and get an inspection for the theater build, aan inspection is necesarry to sell a home, and who wants to spend money re-wiring the room they are leaving when they are looking forward to building some new space??

AFAIK, ATSM rated interior designer fabric (like GOM) applied to the front surface of a blank wallplate should pass inspection, but fabric installed OVER a wallplate would not be up to code anywhere... I am nearly 100% certain that you must have access to every switch or receptacle box.

Every inpector flags differently and they cannot flag what they cannot see... That doesn't mean it isn't dangerous, and if a FIRE inspector happens to be the one that finds it, it's too late.

Insurance companies use situations like this to debate liability and withhold settlement..
post #34 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinemascope
I don't know if I am the "reticent" one that DMF was speaking about, but it seems that no matter how well intentioned the advice, someone here has to throw flames and pros like Alan and myself certainly have better things to do than justify our advice...
Not you specifically; you've been pretty helpful. But you touch on the same problem I was alluding to and that others have commented on privately. There are very knowledgable people here. Master electricians et al. But they rarely answer questions directly. (There are good reasons for this - especially for newbie questions - and in my areas of expertise I tend to do the same thing.) Instead, when someone who isn't a master at the craft weighs in, they feel duty-bound to correct any inadequacies in their advice. Which is good, but it discourages non-experts from posting.

So the experts rarely answer the less interesting questions, and the non-experts are afraid to post incorrect advice. Net result? No answers.

IMO no one is at fault for it. And I don't know how to "fix" it. Just thought I'd make the observation. As good as this forum is, it could stand improvement. :)
post #35 of 69
Thread Starter 
I for one appreciate all of the advice and I just ignore the flames!

I personally have an electronics background (from military training) and have worked as an Apple-authorized computer tech so I do understand basic electricity fairly well.
That being said, abstract knowledge isn't the same as practical experience. Working with electricity on a circuit board is definitely a different discipline than working with it in the walls.
Knowing Ohms law doesn't help a bit when I need to install conduit or pull cable through walls and terminate it to code.

DMF - I think you may underestimate the strength of this forum. When you have people like Dennis and many other experts with post counts in the thousands it would seem that the good, helpful people don't get discouraged by an insult here and there. I also appreciate your help so please don't take this as an insult!
Even some of the harsher posts contain good information and since this forum is text only it's hard to communicate nuances well - even though a post may sound insulting you can't always know the intent of the writer for sure...
post #36 of 69
Anyway, I've decided to use a hybrid approach. A deep masonry box for the GE, EMT up to the attic, a junction box in the attic for concentrating the 12/2 NM from the light zones. There I will unite the grounds and neutrals and run THHN down to the GE box. (I'll run the main power NM down to the GE box directly and use THHN pigtails to the GE.)

The junction box will host 6x2 conductors for the zones, plus six to the GE, plus one for ground. 19x2.25 = 42.75 cu³ box needed. 4 11/16 x 2 1/8D (49 in³). (Should I count clamps? Don't understand that one.)

For the conduit, I don't have a copy of the NEC. How many 12 AWG THHN wires will 1/2" EMT carry? 3/4" EMT?

Should the PELV live in it's own conduit?
post #37 of 69
Here's a tip.

When trying to figure out Grafik Eye, don't depend on the Lutron web site. IMO it's very confusing. Get your hands on a real Lutron catalog and many things suddenly become clear. One thing I especially like is that they show many of the wall stations in sexy configurations rather than bland ivory buttons. For instance, from the web site, you'd never even know that seeTouch® wallstations even existed. But they are *cool*. I want mine in BLack.
post #38 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF
and the non-experts are afraid to post incorrect advice. Net result? No answers.

:)
Im sorry but is that a real problem? :confused:
post #39 of 69
It is when you want the answer to a question. 75% accuracy is a LOT better than 0% accuracy (e.g. no answer).
;)

Maybe the solution is for the experts to ease up a bit when correcting someone. Essentially, the "weekenders" are doing the scut work for the experts. We need them.
post #40 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF

Maybe the solution is for the experts to ease up a bit when correcting someone. Essentially, the "weekenders" are doing the scut work for the experts. We need them.
No rest for wary. :p :)
post #41 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinemascope
A masonry box can be installed just like any other box once you screw on the Raco stud clips used for the regular Raco metal boxes, then you just set the depth so the front of the box will be flush with (or slightly behind) the face of the drywall thickness you are using...
I originally read this to mean that there are Raco adjustable-depth clips. But I don't see any in the catalog. Now I'm wondering if you mean something like an FH bracket? But the only snap-on bracket I see is the MS BoxLoc® which is for metal studs.

If I do the remote junction box and run only the one NM 12/2 and the rest (8) THHN 12 into the GE box, would the 2 1/2" gang box e.g. #687 (p.A49) provide enough room?
post #42 of 69
Thread Starter 
DMF -
1/2" EMT will carry 6 THHN 12ga.
I just pulled six of them for a ~40' run so I know that 6 will fit comfortably and you could probably squeeze a seventh in there but I'm not sure about code.

Hopefully I'm at least 75% correct on this ;-)
post #43 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF
Anyway, I've decided to use a hybrid approach. A deep masonry box for the GE, EMT up to the attic, a junction box in the attic for concentrating the 12/2 NM from the light zones. There I will unite the grounds and neutrals and run THHN down to the GE box. (I'll run the main power NM down to the GE box directly and use THHN pigtails to the GE.)

The junction box will host 6x2 conductors for the zones, plus six to the GE, plus one for ground. 19x2.25 = 42.75 cu³ box needed. 4 11/16 x 2 1/8D (49 in³). (Should I count clamps? Don't understand that one.)
Sounds good, I would still use the deepest boxes you can get.

Also, don't use gangable steel boxes, as they are not as tall in the inside and you need all the real estate you can get in every dimension.

Quote:
For the conduit, I don't have a copy of the NEC. How many 12 AWG THHN wires will 1/2" EMT carry? 3/4" EMT?
Nine pcs. max of 12 GA in 1/2" EMT.
Sixteen pcs. max of 12 GA in 3/4" EMT.

Remember these are max numbers, I would use larger EMT.
Also, unless you are good with a bender, buy your bends...

Wire fill numbers:
A single cable cannot exceed 51% fill in EMT.
Two conductors cannot exceed 31% fill in EMT.
Three of more cables cannot exceed 40% fill in EMT.

Here is a very technical way to determine this...
http://bwccat.belden.com/ecat/images/ConCap.htm

Here is a chart for those who dislike doing the math:
http://www.westernextralite.com/reso...ables/fill.htm

I found these in Google, but a lot of pros keep a quick reference in the truck and/or tool pouch.

Quote:
Should the PELV live in it's own conduit?
Yes. This is mandatory.
post #44 of 69
Nice job there R you got that posted before I got back from the store pickin up a bottle of wine.
post #45 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF
I originally read this to mean that there are Raco adjustable-depth clips. But I don't see any in the catalog. Now I'm wondering if you mean something like an FH bracket? But the only snap-on bracket I see is the MS BoxLoc® which is for metal studs.

If I do the remote junction box and run only the one NM 12/2 and the rest (8) THHN 12 into the GE box, would the 2 1/2" gang box e.g. #687 (p.A49) provide enough room?
Personally, I don't think so... and you can never have TOO much room!!

Here is the infamous #698 3.5" deep 4 gang RACO masonry box!!
...and the hubbell-raco HTML and catalog page links for masonry boxes.
http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/i...Boxes/0698.jpg
http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/R...&FAM=RacoBoxes
or
http://www.hubbellonline.com/wiring/...ll/pdf/a53.pdf

I don't remember which bracket you can use, but it's not the FH.

The FH attached to the front of the stud, and you would not be able to set your depth without a bunch of holes on the box.

The masonry boxes are meant to be set into a stone or brick wall (hence the "masonry" designation!!) but I am positive that one of the brackets fits it...

Looking at this selection of brackets:
http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/R...?FAM=RacoBoxes
I would give the educated guess of the "D", "FA", or "FM" bracket.
Have the counter person at the supply house grab one of each and see which one mates up with the 698 box. Make sure that there are holes far enough back on the bracket to allow you to have the box protrude from the stud out past the drywall and hat channel, clips, etc. that you are using if that is the case.

You may not get this done at Depot or Lowe's...
If you have to go to supply houses, call around to see who has these in stock and sells over the counter. Some sell to the public and some do not... and stop at an ATM and bring cash, do not expect them to take cards or checks unless you have an account.

I am building a GRX master thread because there are too many of thse smaller threads eachwith some good info...

I will link it here when I get it assembled and posted...
post #46 of 69
Well goody. I opened up the wall and there is exactly 8" between studs at that location. Don't even need clips; I can use screws.

Tried Home Depot for the box today. No go. Need to find a supply house that's open on Saturday (yeah right). Good hint on the cash!

I had the same idea for a Grafik Eye FAQ. But since you know more than 75% of what you're talking about, I will step aside. :p Glad to give a newbies eye view if you'd like. David seems amenable to Sticky threads so that might be an option, too.
post #47 of 69
What type EMT fittings do you prefer? Compression?
post #48 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF
What type EMT fittings do you prefer? Compression?
Compression is req'd outside for sure, and maybe for service and other instances inside, I don't reember... IMO they are kind of a PITA to use all the time and I know that set screw fittings are fine for branch circuits.

Set screw couplings and box fitttings are just fine indoors on applications like yours... use the tip of a flat blade screwdriver to spin the rings tight on the box fittings. Tighten them finger tight, then use the blade to spin another 1/4 to 1/2 turn or until they are nice and tight.

Be sure to remember to lube the conduit when you pull, and de-burr the conduit after every cut.

I don't do too much electrical work myself, really only at my place (I don't hold a license, my partner has the electrical license in our company)

Even though we have a licensed high voltage electrician on staff, I am mostly specifying installations that other contractors perform.
post #49 of 69
post #50 of 69
Noticed something while spec'ing the PELV cable. I had understood that LV cable was allowed in a high-voltage partition only if the LV cable had a 600V jacket (like THHN). But when I looked up the recommended Belden cables, they only have a 300V rating. Was the 600V figure incorrect?

Note: The Lutron installation manual incorrectly lists Belden 9470 as acceptable Class 2/PELV cable. There is no such Belden part number. They must have meant Belden 9740, which is the 2-conductor version of the 9156 (4-conductor) Belden part also recommended.
post #51 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF
Noticed something while spec'ing the PELV cable. I had understood that LV cable was allowed in a high-voltage partition only if the LV cable had a 600V jacket (like THHN). But when I looked up the recommended Belden cables, they only have a 300V rating. Was the 600V figure incorrect?

Note: The Lutron installation manual incorrectly lists Belden 9470 as acceptable Class 2/PELV cable. There is no such Belden part number. They must have meant Belden 9740, which is the 2-conductor version of the 9156 (4-conductor) Belden part also recommended.
600v tray wire can be purchased from Lutron or from third parties like Liberty Wire & Cable who "manufacture " wire to Lutron's specification. How many feet to you need? PM me the details.

I am not as skilled in HTML as Cinemascope so I cannot figure out how to post pictures here. But as long as we are sharing tips ( and I am aware that in your case it's unnecessary as you have but 8" of room rather than the more usual 14.5 inches ) is to place the box on a the 4 inch section of a 2x4 ( assuming 2x4 studs. if they were 2x6 you could still use 2x4 but I find 2x6 easier to mount in a 2x6 wall ) and screw the box on to the wood. Then either toe nail that piece of wood into the studs on either side or screw it in to the studs from each side. This provides you not only a stable mount but allows you to locate the box as you see fit. You may wish to center the GE and not have it right against the stud.


As for flaming.... We all learn. I have been installing lighting systems for over 15 years and yet I learned two things in this thread I should have but did not know. One had to do with the using 12g on switch legs if a 20 amp feed is in the box. The other was to include the device in box fill calculations. Someone correcting misinformation or inaccurate information is not flaming. Telling someone that they are more stupid than a dog eating its own vomit does constitute a flame.

I actually never play here. I spend my time in the automation section. In very general terms I enjoy helping people but I have restricted my time on AVS due to the attitude of some DIYs who are simply rude and insulting to anyone in my profession. Telling me my information is wrong or that I should know something is not a flame. Picking my brain while calling me an scum sucking leech is something else. I am in no way suggesting anyone here has been guilty of this but if I might be so bold as to suggest that it is an attitude all to prevalent on this site and it's not in the interests of any participant to chase away the pros.

I try to restrict my posts to a) correcting misinformation and b) answering questions that are left unanswered. DIYs should first help each other. Had you posted in the automation section you might where I "wurk" you might find a different enviorment. I have not noticed anyone reticent about replying for fear of being flamed.
post #52 of 69
Alan,
I believe I now know what the "rough-in" box and adapter plate method that you mentioned...
Please take a few seconds to peruse the link and verify the part #s.

Please take a gander at this link:
www.tnb.com/contractor/docs/sc_indoorboxes.pdf
Please be patient, it is a 40 page catalog...

If I understand correctly, the box you are recommending is a 4 gang "Gang" box (I will never understand the nomenclature of electrical products) and an extended adapter ring.

This particular use of the term "gang box" refers to a taller box with tabs on the sides of the opening, more like a junction box, to be used to attach a face or cover. This is as opposed to the use of the term "gang" meaning the number of devices (receptacles, swtiches, etc.) that can be mounted directly into the holes along the top and bottom of the box, like a 4 gang switch box or a 4 gang masonry box...

Anyway, I have noticed that even though the depth is only 2.5", this type of box is 4.5" tall vs. the 3.75" height of the masonry box, this is a nice find!!
The 13/16" extension puts us within 1/4" of the masonry box in terms of depth directly behind the GRX, but gives us a LOT more room to place these terminations around it!!

EDIT: this was changed Sat, July 9 at @ 12:00 noon.
The adapters for multi-gang openings will span the additional width of the "gang" boxes (or they can be used on the next size down "gang" box, but that doesn't help us) Ex. a 4 "gang" plate for a GRX fits on the 4 gang OR 3 gang "gang" box, but the 3 gang "gang" box wouldn't be advised for a GRX installation....

If this is correct, the Thomas & Betts/Steel City P/N# H4BD-3/4-1 on page A34 of the above link, and you adapt it with a 13/16" extension ring, P/N# 4-GC on page A35 of the above link. This device is a 4 gang opening that is extended 13/16" inch from the coverplate that covers the entire face of the H4BD-3/4-1.

Since the "gang" boxes are actually taller than even the masonry boxes, plus there is additional width on either side of the 4 gang opening (man, this nomenclature is just batty!!) then you have significantly more room even though the box is not as deep.

Please don't even think of flaming here...
This will not even come close to making sense unless you open the link to the catalog and follow along...
post #53 of 69
Looks like the Raco 943 boxes and the 823 cover would be the equivalent. If I read this right, the 4-gang cover (non-negotiable) would not fit the 5-gang box, though.

943 is 10 7/16 x 4 1/2" x 2 1/2" not only taller, but more than an inch to either side of the GE than 968. That's a HUGE box! Too bad I can't use it. :(
post #54 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF
Looks like the Raco 943 boxes and the 823 cover would be the equivalent. If I read this right, the 4-gang cover (non-negotiable) would not fit the 5-gang box, though.

943 is 10 7/16 x 4 1/2" x 2 1/2" not only taller, but more than an inch to either side of the GE than 968. That's a HUGE box! Too bad I can't use it. :(
It looks like you have the right RACO parts, DMF.
When I looked through their site, all I found were shallow Gang boxes...
That site pretty much sucks as far as searching by name/category.

Here are the pics for those who are having trouble finding what we are talking about...
Box.
http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/i...Boxes/0943.jpg
Cover.
http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/i...Boxes/0823.jpg

Alan, is this the setup you were referring to??
post #55 of 69
I have not had a chance to look at the links but the rough-in box is just a large 2.5 inch deep box. The adaptor sizes the box to how ever many gang you require and it comes in different "lip" sizes so if you order a 1" lip on the 4 gang adaptor plate you will get 3.5 inches of depth, a 4- gang box but with lots of additional room within the box to land your wires. I posted the Graybar link for their model numbers for the Rayco. There was a picture of the adapter plate but they had none for the rough-in box. I promise if you go into you local supply house or even Lowes or Home Depot and ask for a rough-in box you will get the right part. I doubt Home Depot or Lowes will have all possible sizes of lips for adaptor plates and these damned things are EXPENSIVE. I also know that some Electricians have found in installed 3.5 inch 4 gang plastic boxes. I did not need to calculate box fill so I have zero knowledge if that is Kosher.

I am stealing a few minutes from my daughter to write this. I will check later the links. Rough in and adapter plates are common electrical terms although they may be slang.

Cinemascope has the correct item. Now if he might deign to teach me how to post graphics I might have done the same.

Alan
post #56 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiblesolutions
Cinemascope has the correct item. Now if he might deign to teach me how to post graphics I might have done the same.
HTML... every bulletin board software is a little different, but here's what I have found here...

Use image tags ( [IMG] ) to open, and ( [/IMG] ) tto close. Obviously, this is with the brackets only, no parentheses...
Between the IMG tags, "paste" the address of the pic from the clipboard after right-clicking on the online pic and selecting "copy image location".

Viola.

Remember from our *other* bulletin board that when the pics are moved at the host site, the links fail. Only link like this if you are fairly confident that the pics are staying put for a while...

OK, I am off to add this box method to the master thread...
post #57 of 69
One thing that hasn't been solidified is the method of mounting the chosen box. I don't think the "set it on 2x4" method is the best one as Lutron says that 4.5" above and below the box must be left clear for heat dissipation. The rough-in box could be mounted with a bar, but the masonry box doesn't have enough room behind it for a bar. Not sure the clip (still have to figure out which one) whill hold it sufficiently stable.

Perhaps nailing a block to one (or both) sides to fill out to the stud(s)?

In any event, I don't see a way to install it in old work without opening wide the wall.
post #58 of 69
Thread Starter 
I was just working on my theater, took a short break and fired up my web browser to scan the forum and what do I read???

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF
I don't think the "set it on 2x4" method is the best one as Lutron says that 4.5" above and below the box must be left clear for heat dissipation.
I just screwed in a 2x4 block to set the masonry box for the GE on!
It was a perfect fit, notched for the romex to get buy it and nice and level...

At least the sheetrock isn't up yet so I can redo things without a lot of trouble :-)

GREAT Thread btw!
post #59 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmedic
I was just working on my theater, took a short break and fired up my web browser to scan the forum and what do I read???

I just screwed in a 2x4 block to set the masonry box for the GE on!
It was a perfect fit, notched for the romex to get buy it and nice and level...

At least the sheetrock isn't up yet so I can redo things without a lot of trouble :-)
!
Leave it. You will have no ( as in zero ) problems mounting your GE as you described. You will not be able to retro-fit either a rough-in ( gang ) box or a masonry box without opening the wall. At least that is my experience. On the other hand if you do not like the solution of placing the GE on a 2xi4 because you are worried about heat didissipation build out the studs with 2xi4 and then anchor the GE to 2 2xi4s and then screw or nail both pieces of wood (holding the GE ) into the built out stud. There are clips for mounting the rough-in box but a masonry box is meant to be plastered or cemented into a......masonry wall. Often it is screwed into a piece of wood first and then anchored to the masonry. Let's not forget that this is an awful lot of metal and it acts as a very nice heat sink.

Alan
post #60 of 69
Got the masonry box, Raco 698. $20 "contractor price" although I got it for a bit less. I asked about clip-on brackets for it but the guy said he'd never heard of doing that and there doesn't seem to be a provision on the box for it.

And yes, it sure is a lot of metal!
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