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the definitive Grafik Eye master thread!! - Page 43

post #1261 of 1404
I have a guy that says he has a GRX-3106 for $250. This is a picture of the back of it. He says it has to be used in conjunction with a dimming panel. What gives? I though the 3106's were all ok to be used without a separate dimming panel. Pic of the back of the unit here. The front is identical to the other 6 zone GEs.
post #1262 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by wraunch View Post

I have a guy that says he has a GRX-3106 for $250. This is a picture of the back of it. He says it has to be used in conjunction with a dimming panel. What gives? I though the 3106's were all ok to be used without a separate dimming panel. Pic of the back of the unit here. The front is identical to the other 6 zone GEs.

That looks like a 4000 series:
http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/4k_Complete.pdf
see page 8 for back diagram.

The 3106 should have screw terminals on both sides.
post #1263 of 1404
As I thought. Thanks!
post #1264 of 1404
$250 would be a heck of a deal if it was a 3106. frown.gif
post #1265 of 1404
I just missed an Ebay auction that went for $225. I know folks that have gotten them for $150-300 lately.
post #1266 of 1404
I have a GraphicEye QS and was hoping to use the hardwired IR ports on the back for a connection to a Global Cache GC-100. Does anyone know if this is possible? When I use an emitter taped to the IR sensor on the front, all is good.... I've tried reversing the data and com... but no luck. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Andy
post #1267 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by wraunch View Post

I just missed an Ebay auction that went for $225. I know folks that have gotten them for $150-300 lately.

Gah, I know - I think I was watching the same one and then missed bidding on it...

Does anyone have an updated link to the install manual? The link at the beginning of the thread does not work.

Thanks!
post #1268 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by stikman99 View Post

I have a GraphicEye QS and was hoping to use the hardwired IR ports on the back for a connection to a Global Cache GC-100. Does anyone know if this is possible? When I use an emitter taped to the IR sensor on the front, all is good.... I've tried reversing the data and com... but no luck. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I've done exactly that and it works fine.
post #1269 of 1404
Thanks for your reply. I'll just make sure the wires didn't come loose when I installed the unit... very tight fit.
post #1270 of 1404
Does it work for retrofit or it new construction only? Theater hasn't been built past drywall yet, but I would like to use something like this for the whole house if it could be retrofit without having to run new wire. House is still being built, but they are past electrical / lighting already.
post #1271 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabident View Post

Does it work for retrofit or it new construction only? Theater hasn't been built past drywall yet, but I would like to use something like this for the whole house if it could be retrofit without having to run new wire. House is still being built, but they are past electrical / lighting already.

It is retrofit in the sense that if you have a white wire in the box where you want to install it, it will work (310x). So if you have a 4-gang box, with four switches that are all fed from that box (no 3-way), yes it will work provided the box is deep enough.

If you go with a RadioRA (QS) type, it will work from multiple locations.

Tim
post #1272 of 1404
I have a theater space with a Grafik Eye 3106 controlling 5 zones with two remote keypads also tied in.

The zones power:

1. (2) 65w cans
2. (3) pendant lights w/40w bulbs i believe
3. (8) 65w cans
4. (3) 50w cans
5. (3) sconces with 60w bulbs

I have started using LED can down lights (Ecosmarts that are 65w equivalents using only 9.5w of electricity) in other parts of my home. Can I use them in my theater space with my Lutron Grafik Eye 3106? Back when I built my theater and got my Lutron system (I subbed everything out, so I bought the stuff off Ebay and had my basement electrician put it in) I seem to recall that the 31xx series didn't play well with LED. Is that actually true or is the real issue the "minimum load" per zone? If it is only the minimum load per zone what is that load and would replacing at least some of these cans with LED can lighting be possible?

Thanks...
post #1273 of 1404
I would like to report on using dimmable LED lights on one of my GRX-3106 dimmer circuits, without use of an interface device. The circuit previously contained seven perimeter soffit cans, each fitted with a 65 watt BR30 incandescent flood lamp. These were replaced with a set of seven dimmable BR30 LED lamps manufactured by Lighting Science. Bulb details are 15W, 800 lumens, 2700K Color Temp, flood pattern, Mfr model number DFNBR30W27120. The main reason I chose this particular LED bulb is because Lighting Science seems the best at discussing dimmer compatibility in their published literature, and were the only manufacturer to include "Grafik Eye" among the dimmers listed as compatible with their BR30 size bulb. These soffit can lights provide the main source of general lighting in my dedicated theater room, for seating and milling around the room. During the presentation this circuit is turned completely off. This circuit is programmed to ramp from full off to full on in three seconds using the entry wall switch, It also ramps from 100% to full off slowly over 20 seconds, finishing just prior to when the projector begins to throw its image on screen after start-up. The previous incandescent bulbs handled these tasks smoothly and flawlessly. The LED lamps ramp up rapidly perfectly, and the light is way brighter than the bulbs being replaced -- I mean way brighter, which is a bonus in my application. Performance in the slow fade to off is not without issues, however. Dimming does indeed occur over the full range of the dimmer, as evidenced my simultaneously watching the Lutron indicator bar graph, but the light output decline during a slow fade is not glassy smooth like the incandescents -- it happens in a somewhat detectable step fashion over the bright to mid level dimming, and some mild flickering occurs in the mid to off range. Manual dimming testing showed the flicker is more prevalent while dimming level is being changed over the bottom range, and not nearly as prevalent if left stopped at a low, but constant dimming level, During a fade to off cycle, the bulbs stay on until the Lutron indicator lights disappear, and all lamps collectively dim in a like manner and shut off in unison. Overall, I am very pleased with the increased brightness level, and can live with the slow fade flickering. The bulbs are heavy, being constructed of thick cast aluminum body fins, and they contain a rounded frosted glass at the business end, with much the same end-glass geometry as an ordinary incandescent BR30. The light color is a pleasing non-blue tone, and it is collectively spread across the room in a smooth and excellent manner. As these LED's fade, they do not shift towards warmer tones to nearly the same degree as do the incandescents. Overall length of the bulb was the same as those replaced. According to the retailer's website, the manufacturer warrants the bulbs for five years, but I haven't yet read the associated fine print. Caution is advised in making sure the fixture can handle the extra weight of these new LED bulbs, and regarding the number of bulbs on a single GE circuit, due to atypical in-rush currents associated with LED's, treat the wattage as if each bulb consumes 75 watts when determining maximum circuit capacity.
post #1274 of 1404
Have you tried adjustig the bias? Made alot of difference for smooth turn-off for me.
post #1275 of 1404
...is bias adjustment something to do with the Grafik Eye??
post #1276 of 1404
Anyone seen a good deal on a 3106 or 3506 lately? If so where?
post #1277 of 1404
I have tried reading as much as possible, and have learned a ton about the GE systems, but I am still confused on 1 point. I am building my home theater right now, and would like to include a GE to control the lighting. I would have 6 zones:
1) 3 can lights in the rear
2) 3 can lights in the middle
3) 3 can lights in the front
4) 6 sconce lights
5) 1 small light in the riser step
6) perimeter rope lighting

Total watts will be under 2000W. I have rough-in wired everything already.

According to local code, I can only have 12 fixtures on a single circuit, meaning I cannot have everything on a single power source. So I have wired 2 15A 120V circuits from the panel. Using regular methodology, I would put the 9 cans on a circuit, everything else on the other.

The thing I can't figure out is how do I bring the 2 power sources into the GE control unit? I have seen some mention of power boosters or something, but am pretty unclear on exactly how this would work.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

ps, I am planning on doing the 2-box method of wiring.
post #1278 of 1404
...could you consider substituting three, three lamp track light fixtures for the three zones having ceiling can lights?
post #1279 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi View Post

...could you consider substituting three, three lamp track light fixtures for the three zones having ceiling can lights?
I would really prefer not to...
post #1280 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgolko View Post

I have tried reading as much as possible, and have learned a ton about the GE systems, but I am still confused on 1 point. I am building my home theater right now, and would like to include a GE to control the lighting. I would have 6 zones:
1) 3 can lights in the rear
2) 3 can lights in the middle
3) 3 can lights in the front
4) 6 sconce lights
5) 1 small light in the riser step
6) perimeter rope lighting

Total watts will be under 2000W. I have rough-in wired everything already.

According to local code, I can only have 12 fixtures on a single circuit, meaning I cannot have everything on a single power source. So I have wired 2 15A 120V circuits from the panel. Using regular methodology, I would put the 9 cans on a circuit, everything else on the other.

You can't bring two power sources (and if code is really going to limit you to fixtures, I don't see how that would appease them anyway).

EDIT: There are GE models that allow this, for similar code-compliance reasons - learned something new today!

My suggestion would be to move the step light off the GE and just place it on a switch. You probably won't need to dim it anyway, and besides, it by itself won't be enough of a load for a GE zone (meaning, won't work...). Same may be true for your rope light. You could expand the system with RadioRA2 to control the other switches, but that's a big jump up in cost (if you aren't doing a RA system already or in the future). Other possibility would be to reduce your front cans (assumed there just for screen wash 'effect' and not used much of the time) by one, so that you'd have a 12th fixture spot for the rope.

Pulling both the step and rope light off would also allow you to use a 4-zone GE and save some money for the trade-off...

Jeff
Edited by jautor - 4/16/13 at 9:46am
post #1281 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgolko View Post

I have tried reading as much as possible, and have learned a ton about the GE systems, but I am still confused on 1 point. I am building my home theater right now, and would like to include a GE to control the lighting. I would have 6 zones:
1) 3 can lights in the rear
2) 3 can lights in the middle
3) 3 can lights in the front
4) 6 sconce lights
5) 1 small light in the riser step
6) perimeter rope lighting

Total watts will be under 2000W. I have rough-in wired everything already.

According to local code, I can only have 12 fixtures on a single circuit, meaning I cannot have everything on a single power source. So I have wired 2 15A 120V circuits from the panel. Using regular methodology, I would put the 9 cans on a circuit, everything else on the other.

The thing I can't figure out is how do I bring the 2 power sources into the GE control unit? I have seen some mention of power boosters or something, but am pretty unclear on exactly how this would work.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

ps, I am planning on doing the 2-box method of wiring.

The GE that I bought off of ebay was (unintentionally) a dual feed version- not sure if one like it would solve your issue?
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1429098/the-medleys-neck-theater/0_100#post_22887152
post #1282 of 1404
I know very, very little but I think you could solve this with a power booster for your 6 cans as the wiring diagram seems to take a second power input.

I think it could also but solved with two 3 zone grafik eyes. Good luck!
Salem
post #1283 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by xjagox View Post

The GE that I bought off of ebay was (unintentionally) a dual feed version- not sure if one like it would solve your issue?
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1429098/the-medleys-neck-theater/0_100#post_22887152

Very interesting. Do you have a mode number that I can try a search on?

Aside from that, I think i am going to take the sconces off the GE, leaving everything else on in 5 zones. The Sconces will just be on a dimmable switch.
Given what I've told you, and that I want to control my GE via a RF remote, any thoughts on which model I should be buying? 3106? 3506? Some kind of QS model?
post #1284 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgolko View Post

Aside from that, I think i am going to take the sconces off the GE, leaving everything else on in 5 zones. The Sconces will just be on a dimmable switch.

Again, your step light zone probably isn't enough load for the GE by itself - you need to check that and/or pull it off as well. If you did both, you'd fit into a 4-zone model. But if you're going to pull stuff off of the GE, I'd still recommend the stuff that you wouldn't likely change levels between scenes. Which is why I suggested both the step light and perhaps the rope.

And that dual-feed unit does look like the right solution for your situation!

Jeff
post #1285 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

Again, your step light zone probably isn't enough load for the GE by itself - you need to check that and/or pull it off as well. If you did both, you'd fit into a 4-zone model. But if you're going to pull stuff off of the GE, I'd still recommend the stuff that you wouldn't likely change levels between scenes. Which is why I suggested both the step light and perhaps the rope.

And that dual-feed unit does look like the right solution for your situation!

Jeff
I thought my step lights wouldn't be enough of a load for a zone. I have two 7-watt step lights on one zone. For whatever reason, it works fine. They come on and dim on the way out like all the other zones. Perhaps I just got lucky biggrin.gif
post #1286 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

Again, your step light zone probably isn't enough load for the GE by itself - you need to check that and/or pull it off as well. If you did both, you'd fit into a 4-zone model. But if you're going to pull stuff off of the GE, I'd still recommend the stuff that you wouldn't likely change levels between scenes. Which is why I suggested both the step light and perhaps the rope.

And that dual-feed unit does look like the right solution for your situation!

Jeff

I will have 2 small lights on the step (one on either side). What is the minimum wattage for a zone?
The rope light will be approximately 55' long. I see somewhere that rope light is about 3 watts per foot, 150W? should be enough for a zone? I've seen lots of other guys put their rope on a GE, so it must work somehow.

Again, if anyone has a model number or more info on the dual feed unit, I'd be pleased to hear from you.
post #1287 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWCR View Post

I thought my step lights wouldn't be enough of a load for a zone. I have two 7-watt step lights on one zone. For whatever reason, it works fine. They come on and dim on the way out like all the other zones. Perhaps I just got lucky biggrin.gif

Specs say 25W min (120V, 40W on 230V) - maybe that minimum load spec is "conservative"? I assume the symptom of a lightly loaded zone is the same I've seen on other dimmers, where the circuit remains slightly "on" - if you look at the bare bulb when the zone is off, is there any glow?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgolko View Post

I will have 2 small lights on the step (one on either side). What is the minimum wattage for a zone?
The rope light will be approximately 55' long. I see somewhere that rope light is about 3 watts per foot, 150W? should be enough for a zone? I've seen lots of other guys put their rope on a GE, so it must work somehow.

Rope light is not an issue.

You said previously you had a step "light" (singular). As GWCR showed above, if you're using two of the normal 7W ones, you may be ok.

But my point about pulling those loads off the GE was that if you just turn them on/off in general, you're consuming a fairly expensive zone for little gain. I'm thinking about doing the same thing with my step lights - putting them on a separate switch to free up a zone for other lights. Since I don't change the step lights' level during normal operation - just turn it on and leave it - I lose very little functionality by moving it to a switch. In your case, moving those off would get you to your 12-fixture limit, if you did the same with your rope.

And a Google search for "Grafik Eye Dual Feed" leads to:

http://www.mrsupply.com/lutron-grafik-eye-grx-3506-t-df-wh.html

It's the 3506 model, with the "DF" (dual feed) model designator. I don't see it on Lutron's site (easily), so it may be a discontinued model, but using the model builder on MRsupply site you can see it's there...


Jeff
post #1288 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

Specs say 25W min (120V, 40W on 230V) - maybe that minimum load spec is "conservative"? I assume the symptom of a lightly loaded zone is the same I've seen on other dimmers, where the circuit remains slightly "on" - if you look at the bare bulb when the zone is off, is there any glow?
I was nervous about that zone since I had read the 25W minimum spec. Maybe it is a conservative estimate, or maybe it's just how I'm using it. That zone is on full for all the scenes I have programmed so far. I don't vary the intensity at all. The only time that zone is off, is when all zones are off. I have no glow at that point, but wouldn't expect any. I'll try lowering it all the way tonight with another zone on and see if there is any glow.
post #1289 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgolko View Post


Given what I've told you, and that I want to control my GE via a RF remote, any thoughts on which model I should be buying? 3106? 3506? Some kind of QS model?

Using an RF remote, presumably together with a matching RF receiver/IR repeater unit, will work with any of the three models mentioned. With the 3106 and 3506, if the repeater is to be located elsewhere (no unimpeded line of sight to the GE front panel), you will need to purchase an IR interface, which accepts a wired IR stick-on flasher at a remote location (such as an AV closet), and converts and conveys the commands to the GE through MUX low voltage in-wall cabling. With the QS, you can hardwire the IR signal directly (flasher removed) into the back of the GE unit, without need for the interface. The main difference between the 3106 and 3506 is higher dimming resolution, and better computer based control.

BTW, in the power module scheme, if you want independent dimming of the three sets of ceiling cans, I believe each row will require its own module.
post #1290 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi View Post

Using an RF remote, presumably together with a matching RF receiver/IR repeater unit, will work with any of the three models mentioned. With the 3106 and 3506, if the repeater is to be located elsewhere (no unimpeded line of sight to the GE front panel), you will need to purchase an IR interface, which accepts a wired IR stick-on flasher at a remote location (such as an AV closet), and converts and conveys the commands to the GE through MUX low voltage in-wall cabling. With the QS, you can hardwire the IR signal directly (flasher removed) into the back of the GE unit, without need for the interface. The main difference between the 3106 and 3506 is higher dimming resolution, and better computer based control.

BTW, in the power module scheme, if you want independent dimming of the three sets of ceiling cans, I believe each row will require its own module.

The main unit will be in direct sight of the couch, so I should be fine without an IR interface.
Does that mean if I go with the 3506 DF or drop a zone and do a 3106 or 3506 I do not need the dimming modules? Just want to make sure...

I really appreciate all the help!
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