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the definitive Grafik Eye master thread!! - Page 45

post #1321 of 1404
https://globalcache.zendesk.com/entries/20167898-Lutron-Grafik-Eye-issues
post #1322 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by wraunch View Post

Anyone else wired it up this way:
I got some of the 3.5 stereo connectors from Parts Express and put one on one end to plug into my GC-100.

To connect it to the GE unit, I hard wired them into the IR Data and IR Com connection points. For my unit, these were located on the back left side and were colored orange. I of course used the same color wires on both ends.

In essence, I made my own 3.5 stereo connection line. I could have used a pre-made cable, but I would have had to cut one end off to connect to the GE. Plus, I was having a hard time finding one that was 40 feet long.

Yep, same here. Mine was ~25' away, so I used an emitter extension cable, and built a pigtail out of a scrap of PELV and a 3.5mm plug to connect to the GE from outside the box (which is accessible in my attic).
post #1323 of 1404
Great info Tim thanks. Jautor, what did you put on the other end of the PELV?
post #1324 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by wraunch View Post

Great info Tim thanks. Jautor, what did you put on the other end of the PELV?

A male 3.5mm plug, which then plugs into a 25' 3.5mm emitter extension cable...
post #1325 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by jautor View Post

A male 3.5mm plug, which then plugs into a 25' 3.5mm emitter extension cable...

If you go this route just make sure you put a couple whips of electrical tape around the connection to bind it together tightly. These are generally very tight-fitting snap connections, but an easy 1 cent insurance policy during your installation. Don't forget to test the connection before closing up the walls as well - believe me when I tell you it ain't pretty to fix if there is a problem....
post #1326 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

If you go this route just make sure you put a couple whips of electrical tape around the connection to bind it together tightly. These are generally very tight-fitting snap connections, but an easy 1 cent insurance policy during your installation. Don't forget to test the connection before closing up the walls as well - believe me when I tell you it ain't pretty to fix if there is a problem....

Agreed! And I should have stated that I wouldn't put any connector-mated splice in the wall - mine is easily accessible from the attic behind my theater - I used the emitter extension cable since it made it easy to test the setup with a blink/test emitter. If it was in the wall I would have just used the PELV to get to an accessible point to splice...

Jeff
post #1327 of 1404
....a drop of solder is worth a ton of cure.
post #1328 of 1404
I am in the process of installing a 6 zone Grafik Eye in finished room. This thread was very helpful in figuring out what I needed to do so I thought I would share my progress.

Disclaimer: I am not an electrician so I don't recommend you do as I do smile.gif.

I am using a 4 gang masonry box. I added some spacers so I could screw the box into wood on both sides:


I had to cut the hole taller than the box to be able to fit it in there with the wires pulled through. The extra width in the hole was because I decided I needed to attach it to two studs after I cut the first hole frown.gif. I think it is typically easier to patch a big hole then a small/oddly shaped hole so if I had it to do over again I would just open it up larger all the way between studs.

Here is m wiring progression:








To connect all the neutral and grounds together I used these: http://www.amazon.com/Ideal-30-1034J...h+in+connector
I wish I could have found the connectors that join 8 wires locally but oh well. I used 3 of these jumpered together for both neutral and ground.

I have a rough-in inspection hopefully tomorrow and will update this message afterward.
post #1329 of 1404
Eyekode - a couple of tips if you find yourself installing another Grafik Eye at some point that will save you a bit of trouble...
  • Use a Carlon 4-gang old work box. It has 68 cubic inches of room and you don't have to worry about tearing open and patching the drywall to install a masonary box. Both are full-depth boxes, plus you don't have to ground the Carlon retrofit box or use pesky Romex clamps. Whoever recommends masonary boxes for these installs should be taken out and beaten severely with a wet noodle. The plastic option is TONS better and extremely secure with the four dog ear tabs.
  • Use 8-port push-in connectors for all the Ground and Neutral connections. There are two options for these 8-port connectors.... a flat connector: and a dual row "stacked" connector: Get the wide connector because it lays perfectly flat in the back of the box and you don't have to jumble up all the wires in a big twist which sucks up precious depth. They are normally about 35 cents each, FYI. I'll be dead before I use up the box of 50 I bought 10 years ago and I have put many Grafik Eyes into my past homes.
  • Try to limit the amount of interaction between the low voltage cat-5 line and the high voltage wires. This is important from both temperature and interference perspectives, especially since the cat-5 sheathing is not designed for a higher temperature rating, but also because unshielded Cat-5 is most definitely susceptible to EMF interference in the box. If you are running a simple cat-5 to attach an IR emitter, I would jelly bean on the emitter to the cat-5 and run the emitter wire under the OUTSIDE of the box and affix to the IR receiver on the Grafik Eye. Alternatively, you could install the emitter underneath the Grafik Eye cover plate if you use a low-profile emitter or remove the teardrop protective cover from a standard Grafik Eye. If you are using the 4-port Phoenix communications / accessory control bus on the back of the Grafik Eye, definitely invest in the real Lutron wire or equivalent. This wire contains an aluminum shield and 18 gauge stranded for power and common (ground) feeds.

If you still would like to run the cat-5 inside the box, I would recommend coming up through the bottom middle/right as this will limit the amount of interaction and exposure between low and high voltage wires considering where the wire has to be run either to the 4-port phoenix on the back or the IR target on the front of the unit.

I hope these tips help.
post #1330 of 1404
Thanks for the response! Please note the Raco masonry box is 89.9 cu inches so there is quite a bit more room. But it would have been nice to have one less hole to repair!

I was looking for the 8 terminal push in connectors and could not find them locally. And mail order you had to buy 100!

As for the blue wire you see it is lutron PLEV cable so it has a high voltage sheathing. Also I have a QS series grafik eye so I am wiring to the back for IR connection. I am not using the front IR receiver.

Keep the feedback coming! Others can learn from my mistakes smile.gif.

Salem
post #1331 of 1404
Good to know you are using the Lutron cable....it really looks like Cat-5 from the pictures. And it was a HUGE design improvement for Lutron to put the IR input on the back side of the device instead of only in the front.

I've never had the slightest bit of problem with the 68 cubic inch and the Grafik Eye lays nice and flat without any undue pressure, even when tightening the mounting screws. The extra room is always nice, but the process to get there with the blocking and drywall repairs is a lot more work, especially since the extra room is not needed.

I found the wide, flat connectors for $15.38 for a pack of 50. Maybe a bit too steep just for one Grafik Eye, but I'd be happy to mail you two out of my box if you PM me your address.
post #1332 of 1404
Look at your local code -- here I could not use push-in connectors. I also used a blue Carlon 4 space box - tight fit with everything but easily doable with a little planning and some neat wire work.
post #1333 of 1404
Just reading through this latest discussion, and a question has popped into my mind...
I'm about to install a GRX-3106 into my theater room. I have have 6 zones, all run off the single unit, which is located in the theater room about 5 feet from the couch.
Do I need to run a cat5e to the box for an IR emitter, or is there something built into the unit already? In other words, will I be able to control this with some sort of remote (likely a Harmony something or other) without running any separate cables, or will I be able to do this with the unit as-is (or with minimal effort once the unit is installed).

Thanks!
post #1334 of 1404
I have four GRX-3106s in my house. The way I control them is they are all addressed as different masters during the setup (in other words A1, A2, A3, etc. in Lutron-speak) and all daisy-chained together through a single communications bus as per Lutron installation protocol. The very last wire from the very last device is linked to a GRX-IA232 device so my control system can send RS-232 control codes out over the bus. All Grafik Eyes listen to the command, but only the appropriate one responds with the scene setting. This is using the 4-port phoenix connector on the back of the unit.

For IR you have a couple of different options and it depends on your setup. If you are using the remote as a basic point-and-shoot standard remote, you would simply point the remote at the Grafik Eye to execute the command. If you are more fully integrating this with the control system as part of a macro sequence or using the RF capabilities, then you will need to find a way to extend the IR emitter from your RF receiver / control hub to the Grafik Eye's IR receiver directly. This is most commonly done by cutting a standard emitter in half and splicing one pair of Cat-5 into the connection. As I said above, it is better to bring the low voltage wire / emitter from underneath and outside the high voltage box to route the emitter from underneath and under the cover with a low-profile emitter like this (pic found on the web, fyi):



So to answer your question, the only way to run the unit as-is is simply to point an IR remote at the Grafik Eye and issue the command, just like any other standard remote. Anything else is going to take a wire for control.
post #1335 of 1404
Thanks! Maybe I'll run a Cat5 then while the wall is still open. If I don't use it, I don't use it.
post #1336 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnsteph10 View Post

Look at your local code -- here I could not use push-in connectors. I also used a blue Carlon 4 space box - tight fit with everything but easily doable with a little planning and some neat wire work.
Man I hope the pushin connectors are kosher! I would hate to see what a mess I would make with wire nuts!!
Edited by eyekode - 5/9/13 at 6:14pm
post #1337 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyekode View Post

Man I hope the pushin connectors are kosher! I would hay to see what a mess I would make with wire nuts!!

I'm hooking up a GRX-3106 right now, and the push in connectors are the bees knees! They are UL listed and rated for plenty of voltage, so I don't know why code wouldn't allow them, but I suppose anything is possible. I bought a pack of 10 on ebay for like 7 bucks. Good luck!

-Schlemstar
post #1338 of 1404
Great info above!
post #1339 of 1404
My rough-in inspection passed!
And I managed to get the Grafik Eye in the box today. I am not very talented at folding wires. And I needed every cu inch in that masonry box. I am sure others could do it in less room but I could not!!!



post #1340 of 1404
I have been reading up on the Grafik Eye QS Wireless. I am considering a 6-zone version for my room. I am getting ready to order it soon.

A few notes:

- USB hasn't been mentioned in this thread since 2009. As I understand from the literature, it is now possible to connect via USB to the Grafik Eye QS Wireless and use free software from the Lutron website to program it. Has anyone had experience with this?

- The CREE CR6 LED retrofit bulb has been tested with the Grafik Eye QS Wireless unit and is shown to work quite well. According to their selection guide, it appears to be one of the best LED dimming options for recessed lighting as far as how dim they can go. I read in a couple places about coupling the LED bulbs with a hidden 10-15w bulb or resistor to make the load look more resistive. Don't know if that would be good or bad in this case. Anyone have experience with LED dimming direct from the Grafik Eye QS? I'm seriously considering the CR6 fixtures

- Anyone also installed controlled Sivoia QS shade(s) in their theater room?
Edited by danielrg - 5/14/13 at 7:22pm
post #1341 of 1404
Daniel,

I used a GE QS system in my theater build. I recall it coming in several versions although I don't remember a USB version. I use the direct wire IR connection from Xantech distribution unit and it works great. I have one zone driving a 120' LED rope light and it dims fine. One other zone consists of about 32' of LED rope and two 5w incandescent stair lamps and this also dims fine too. The GE does have a minimum load rating that can be hard to reach with a small number of LED lights. In this case adding an incandescent light as resistive load can work well. If this is inconvenient then Lutron sells an hidden resistive load for this purpose -- being an electrical engineer you could also build your own.

Cheers.

- Paul.
post #1342 of 1404
Apparently the USB port is NOT for control, only for initial programming and firmware upgrades. I'm thinking I'd be using IR and/or their Ethernet or Radio RA2 controllers for linking into it with computers/remotes.
post #1343 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schlemstar View Post

I'm hooking up a GRX-3106 right now, and the push in connectors are the bees knees! They are UL listed and rated for plenty of voltage, so I don't know why code wouldn't allow them, but I suppose anything is possible. I bought a pack of 10 on ebay for like 7 bucks. Good luck!

-Schlemstar

It's just local inspectors who might not allow them. I used wire nuts for my connections, but I only have 4 zones. Now, I think in my area, they require grounds to have a copper ring crushed onto them; so, that's what I've been doing but did not do that for the Grafik Eye (since weren't required then). I have used the push connectors in other areas, though, particularly for grounds in boxes where I replace the light switches. For whatever reason, none of the light switches in my house are grounded, and the grounds in each box are tightly wound and cut short. If you have three switches, it's a bear to try to add three additional wires to a set of ground wires that are tightly wound and cut too short. So, I've been unwinding the grounds, adding a single ground wire, and then rewinding the grounds (and either adding a wire nut or a copper ring, depending on when I did it; having owned the house for 9 years, you go through multiple versions of the NEC). I then take the single ground wire and put it into a push-in connector and the rest of the grounds to the new switches are easy.
post #1344 of 1404
It's always amazing to me how a local inspector can essentially "take the law into their own hands" by disallowing a simple yet well-designed connector approved by all national testing labs and found in the NEC.
post #1345 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

It's always amazing to me how a local inspector can essentially "take the law into their own hands" by disallowing a simple yet well-designed connector approved by all national testing labs and found in the NEC.

A lot of times it's the fault of the writers of the code itself. The code will get written as "All wires not terminated in a recepticle (or whatever) must terminate in a wire nut" or something to that nature. When really it should just use the word "terminated" or something. Sometimes more detail is worse, but I get your point... sometimes the code is written correctly and the inspector has his own definition of it... sort of like an ump and a baseball strike zone.
post #1346 of 1404
The code says, " conductors shall be spliced or joined with splicing devices identified for the use..."

Of course, it also defines "Approved" as, "acceptable to the Authority Having Jurisdiction".

All of my recessed lights shipped from the manufacturer with the push connectors. There is really no reason for an inspector to prohibit them, provided they are installed according to their listing. Perhaps some inspectors just aren't aware they are listed.

Tim
post #1347 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Tim View Post

The code says, " conductors shall be spliced or joined with splicing devices identified for the use..."

Of course, it also defines "Approved" as, "acceptable to the Authority Having Jurisdiction".

All of my recessed lights shipped from the manufacturer with the push connectors. There is really no reason for an inspector to prohibit them, provided they are installed according to their listing. Perhaps some inspectors just aren't aware they are listed.

Tim

Thanks Tim! When I wrote my post I was 99.99% sure you would see it and post the actual code wording. I didn't have the time (or patience, to be honest) to look it up.

My inspector up in Pittsburgh initially objected to the push-in connector use inside the Grafik Eye box, but once I objected to his objection ( biggrin.gif ) and then dug the connector package out and showed him the ratings / certifications / UL listings all over the thing he passed everything with a bit of reluctance.
post #1348 of 1404
Can I buy two of these connectors anywhere? I don't need a whole pack of them.
post #1349 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by wraunch View Post

Can I buy two of these connectors anywhere? I don't need a whole pack of them.

PM me your addy....cost will be a beer (or five) when I visit your theater someday! tongue.gif
post #1350 of 1404
Sweet! PM sent!
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