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the definitive Grafik Eye master thread!! - Page 46

post #1351 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

It's always amazing to me how a local inspector can essentially "take the law into their own hands" by disallowing a simple yet well-designed connector approved by all national testing labs and found in the NEC.

Some electricians don't like them, either. I think they're confusing them with connectors on the "back" of light switches, which tend to produce a lot of callbacks. However, I tested these types of connectors by attempting to pull out wire, and it's hard to get wire out of them. You have to rotate the connector while pulling on the wire.

One problem I've had with these connectors is using stranded wire in them and then trying to remove the stranded wire. That can be a bear. A lot of X-10 type switches have wiring that's stranded, and now that I'm moving out of my house and removing these switches for the few ones I've used with the connectors, it's a pain in the butt to get the stranded wire out. It's possible, but takes work.
post #1352 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

Some electricians don't like them, either. I think they're confusing them with connectors on the "back" of light switches, which tend to produce a lot of callbacks. However, I tested these types of connectors by attempting to pull out wire, and it's hard to get wire out of them. You have to rotate the connector while pulling on the wire.

One problem I've had with these connectors is using stranded wire in them and then trying to remove the stranded wire. That can be a bear. A lot of X-10 type switches have wiring that's stranded, and now that I'm moving out of my house and removing these switches for the few ones I've used with the connectors, it's a pain in the butt to get the stranded wire out. It's possible, but takes work.

I have never seen one rated for stranded wire.

Tim
post #1353 of 1404
Wago Series 773 Wall Nuts push wire connectors are rated for stranded and solid conductors.

Series_773_WALLNUTS_540x235.jpg

I've used them for a Lutron dimmer and a couple outlets. They're very good. Different flavors, read the spec sheet before you buy.
post #1354 of 1404
I am not familiar the the GE conductors. Is one of them a small AWG stranded? The standard Wago push in Wall Nut connectors are rated down to 16 AWG for stranded. I used a special Wall Nut for my Lutron IR dimmer that accommodated an 18 AWG stranded.

7877s.jpg

SmartHome carries Wago Wall Nuts.
post #1355 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post

Wago Series 773 Wall Nuts push wire connectors are rated for stranded and solid conductors.

Series_773_WALLNUTS_540x235.jpg

I've used them for a Lutron dimmer and a couple outlets. They're very good. Different flavors, read the spec sheet before you buy.


Good to know, thanks for sharing.

Tim
post #1356 of 1404
What AWG size stranded lead does the GE use? There is only a single Wago Wall Nut that can accept 18 AWG stranded, and that's a 4 conductor connector, pictured above, part 773-124. Other connectors can accept down to 16 AWG stranded.
post #1357 of 1404

Sorry for what I'm sure is a very basic question.  Was taking a look at the GE in preparation for installing it in a couple of weeks after drywall is done.  The GE seems to take a Black/White/Ground directly connected to it from the electric panel.  And then each of the 6 zones' Black wires gets connected into the respective zone terminals.  Is it correct that all of the zone Whites and Grounds are tied together in the electrical box?  And by extension, there is no connection of the of these whites and grounds to to the GE directly?  

post #1358 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by RossoDiamante View Post

Sorry for what I'm sure is a very basic question.  Was taking a look at the GE in preparation for installing it in a couple of weeks after drywall is done.  The GE seems to take a Black/White/Ground directly connected to it from the electric panel.  And then each of the 6 zones' Black wires gets connected into the respective zone terminals.  Is it correct that all of the zone Whites and Grounds are tied together in the electrical box?  And by extension, there is no connection of the of these whites and grounds to to the GE directly?  

You are a bit off. You tie all the grounds together with a wire nut or push-in connector, including the wire coming from the panel, with a jumper (6 inch or so long piece) to run to the back of the GE. This essentially consolidates all the ground wires into one wire. You do the same with the neutrals. The hot (black) from the panel gets tied directly to the GE and then the hot from each load goes under the respective 1-6 terminal. Make sense?
post #1359 of 1404
I am no expert but I believe you need at least 14ga for a 15a circuit. If you run a 20a circuit you would need all wires to be 12ga. I have no idea how you would fit all those 12ga wires in one box! I did however manage to fit all my 14ga wires into a 4 gang masonry box (6 channel grafik eye).
post #1360 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyekode View Post

I am no expert but I believe you need at least 14ga for a 15a circuit. If you run a 20a circuit you would need all wires to be 12ga. I have no idea how you would fit all those 12ga wires in one box! I did however manage to fit all my 14ga wires into a 4 gang masonry box (6 channel grafik eye).

Lutron recommends 12 gauge wire for the 6 zone units and 14 gauge for the 4-zone (and less) units. However, you can use 14 gauge with the 6 zone provided your total loads don't exceed the 20% de-rating of a 15 amp dedicated circuit. I have a small basement bar where total loads among 6 different zones of accent and task lighting is just under 700 watts. It's no problem for me to use 14 gauge in this situation and be concerned about heat or overload of circuit or switch.
post #1361 of 1404
If you have a 20 A breaker, you must use 12 AWG wire or larger (NEC 240.4 I believe). A 15 A breaker will protect a 14 AWG wire or larger. This is regardless of the load on it. The idea being the next guy that owns the house may come in and put a bunch more lights on there and burn down the house because he didn't know the breaker wasn't size correctly.
post #1362 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

If you have a 20 A breaker, you must use 12 AWG wire or larger (NEC 240.4 I believe). A 15 A breaker will protect a 14 AWG wire or larger. This is regardless of the load on it. The idea being the next guy that owns the house may come in and put a bunch more lights on there and burn down the house because he didn't know the breaker wasn't size correctly.

+1. I was starting with the assumption that either a 15a with 14 gauge was being used with a 6 zone Eye or that a 20a with 12 gauge was being used with a 6 zone Eye, not 14 gauge on a 20 amp breaker or having a 12 gauge on a 20 amp circuit come into the box and the rest of the loads on 14 gauge. Like you said, all gauges must match and have the appropriately sized breaker.

If the question is can you use a 6 zone Grafik Eye with 14 gauge wire on a dedicated 15a circuit, the answer is yes, you can, provided that the total wattage load doesn't exceed the 20% derate of the 15a circuit (assuming this is a dedicated line). It will functionally work just fine. The 20 amp dedicated circuit and 12 gauge wiring requirement is assuming that 6 zones of lighting will have significant load which requires the higher rating.

Sorry for the confusion to anyone who got the same impression as JPA after reading my comment and thanks for clarifying!
post #1363 of 1404
I figured that's what you meant, but thought it was worth a quick clarification.
post #1364 of 1404
I just picked up a used grx-3004.

Does anyone know if there are any differences between a 3004 and a 3104?
post #1365 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry S View Post

I just picked up a used grx-3004.

Does anyone know if there are any differences between a 3004 and a 3104?

This is the original Grafik Eye series. You should not see a difference in functionality, only setup and programming options. But communications bus protocols / commands, operation, integration with low-voltage keypads, etc. is all the same.
post #1366 of 1404
Thanks for the response. That's great news.

When I Googled that model I found very few results. Hopefully when I get ready to install it I can track down documentation or get the help I need here for setting it up.
post #1367 of 1404
Can you guys confirm something for me? I'm looking at picking up a 3-zone Grafik Eye (3103) to control sconces, overhead cans, and one 3-way switch that controls my hallway lights. The other end of that 3-way switch is at the top of my stairs, and this is where my question is leading...

It sounds like I will need to replace my switch at the top of the stairs with a NTGRX-1S, and run a wire from that switch to my box (PELV). Is that correct? This will be moderately tricky to do in a retrofit, since the light at the top of the stairs is finished and enclose, but I might be able to pull it off. But, I'd like confirmation that I have all the pieces of this puzzle before proceeding. Can anyone confirm my plan (or shoot some holes in it!).

Thanks!
post #1368 of 1404
Actually the 1S uses regular electrical cable with the 3000 series.
http://site.electricsuppliesonline.com/documents/Lutron/ntgrx-1s.pdf

I have a 1S in my setup, however understand that when you press the 1s button that brings the GE from off to scene 1. So scene 1 would be to turn on your hallway lights and perhaps whatever other lights you need to be on to the get to the GE for your next scene . When you're leaving it doesn't matter what scene you're leaving from, when you press the 1S again the lights will go to off.
post #1369 of 1404
I purchased a used unit and am having some trouble during testing.

It is a 3004, older unit. When I wire it up all LEDS on the unit are on, and stay on. I cannot enter setup mode by holding scene 1 and off.

Also I currently have no zones wired in. This is just with the hot, neutral and ground connected.

Any suggestions? Thanks.
post #1370 of 1404
Good news I figured it out.

I had to run a jumper from hot1 to hot2. Apparently both need to be fed. All along I thought you wired up hot1 and ignored hot 2.

All is well now!
post #1371 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post


You are a bit off. You tie all the grounds together with a wire nut or push-in connector, including the wire coming from the panel, with a jumper (6 inch or so long piece) to run to the back of the GE. This essentially consolidates all the ground wires into one wire. You do the same with the neutrals. The hot (black) from the panel gets tied directly to the GE and then the hot from each load goes under the respective 1-6 terminal. Make sense?

 

Perfect.  That makes a lot more sense.  Easy modification!

post #1372 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry S View Post

I purchased a used unit and am having some trouble during testing.

It is a 3004, older unit. When I wire it up all LEDS on the unit are on, and stay on. I cannot enter setup mode by holding scene 1 and off.

Also I currently have no zones wired in. This is just with the hot, neutral and ground connected.

Any suggestions? Thanks.

I have the 6 zone version of this same unit. I think we must have bought it from the same guy because mine has that same funky faux wood grain finish.
post #1373 of 1404
yes funky indeed smile.gif

It looks like it came out of my Dad's den in the 70's.

You plan on taking a stab at painting it?
post #1374 of 1404
Yep! I need it painted black.
post #1375 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by wraunch View Post

Yep! I need it painted black.

Or you could just buy a replacement cover . . . biggrin.gif
post #1376 of 1404
Well I will be relisting my funky 4 zone since I upgraded to a 6 zone. The model number I got is a GRX-IA-6, so I guess according to page 1 that is a 3506.

I really don't want to worry about an IR blaster or emitter to control the grafik eye and was curious about using the rs-232 serial commands.

I'm unsure if I need any other pieces of Lutron Hardware though.

Could I control my Grafik eye using an irule@home remote, linked to a GC-100 OR iTACH with RS-232 serial output, connected to the Grafik Eye?

Hope I am making sense... Thanks.
post #1377 of 1404
The Grafik Eye speaks RS-485. The Lutron GRX-IA232 offers bi-directional communication and translation between RS-232 and RS-485. You would then need an interface between TCP/IP to translate to an RS-232 signal if you went this route.

I always prefer bi-directional communication protocols, but IR is far less expensive. You least expensive option is to attach an emitter on the Grafik Eye's IR target, extend the emitter with Cat-5 back to the rack and then get a device that will translate your TCP/IP commands to IR.
post #1378 of 1404
I ran a wire for IR on my QS but have not yet attached it to an IR emitter.

I am quite impressed with how well the IR reciever works on the unit. It has been very reliable. I point the remote 90 degrees from the screen and it still has worked 100% of the time for last couple months!
Salem
post #1379 of 1404
Thanks TMcG. Do you know if you could use a GRX-CI-PRG in place of a GRX-IA232?
post #1380 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyekode View Post

I ran a wire for IR on my QS but have not yet attached it to an IR emitter.

I am quite impressed with how well the IR reciever works on the unit. It has been very reliable. I point the remote 90 degrees from the screen and it still has worked 100% of the time for last couple months!
Salem

That's good to know. I plan on using a Wi-Fi based remote, but it sounds like sticking a blaster in my soffit or sticking an emitter on it are both good options.
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