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the definitive Grafik Eye master thread!! - Page 6

post #151 of 1404
Hello...

I am in the process of completing my basement and am planning on making one room a home theater. I have already purchased several RadioRa switches for this installation along with several master controls. (I don't have the part listing with me, otherwise I would include them.) The lights in the theater portion of the room are being configured as 7 zones, something like this:

| ----------- |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| ----------- |

What I am wondering is if I can add a Grafik Eye to this configuration and, if so, what model should I get? (What advantages would I get by doing this?)

There will also be 3 additional zones off to the right side (this would be the bottom of the above diagram) that would control lights in a side sitting area and over a bar. Could these also be incorporated into the GE? (I have also purchased some Sivoia switches for the window covers too.)

Thanks!
post #152 of 1404
The above diagram in my post did not format correctly....

So let me try an attachment instead.
LL
post #153 of 1404
Yeah, I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one too. I have satin nickel now, but the other 4' wallplates are black.

Rick, I went through various wallplates on the wallstations and black definitely looked best. I tried white, chrome, silver, and some poor-fitting satin nickel. (It's darn difficult to find a decent 2- or 3-gang Deco plate in satin nickel. I won't pay special order prices for Claro.) I'll send you pics one of these days. The back-lighting really looks slick on black wallstations.
post #154 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiblesolutions View Post

The metal finishes do look great but I would caution that if you expect to order a metal finish for the main unit the metal cover may act as heat sinks and be very hot to the touch--as in 110-120F. I have never ordered a metal finish for a Grafik Eye but I have for many a Vario. And those Varios were all very hot to the touch.

Forgot to report back on my results. The metal finish is a skin over a plastic core. The metal doesn't come into direct contact with the body of the GE. Mine runs nice and cool.
post #155 of 1404
Thread Starter 
I had a brushed chrome cover on a 6 zone GRX in my old office... No heat.
post #156 of 1404
I am finishing the basement and ran all the wires for the Grafik eye sytem and additional control panels. When I had a HT company, (they were supposed to be VERY familiar with these systems), rough in the power lines for the 2 GRX-3106 units, they had changed the lines I had already run for the mux lines. They were run in a daisy chain format and they changed it all to homeruns - with resistance from me but hey - they are the professionals right...

They came back after all the sheetrock was hung and walls were painted, to hook everything up. They informed me that they were not sure how to hook up the 3 NTGRX-4B controlers and a 2-button (forget the #). These are the same installers that originally were in the house. They basically left the accessory controls unhooked and told me that I would need to figure out how to hook them up or they could research it and come back (for more $$ of course) and hook them up.

With what I am reading, I was correct to run them daisy chain and am I now $#@%$#??

Anyone have any suggestions?
post #157 of 1404
Tell the contractor he will have to run the wires correctly so the system works properly or you will withhold final payment. If it's cheaper (which I doubt) you could change the system to the Grafik Eye RadioRa system. Look at the seeTouch wallstations if you do.
post #158 of 1404
I have just finished the walls with Santos Mahogany and Bubinga wood. I really do not want to cut into the walls at this point and there is really no way to run lines in the walls without cutting into the walls. It has taken me a year to get all the wood on the walls and I am finally to the point where I am putting Poly on the walls.....

Is there anyway to hook up the controllers with the current homeruns?
post #159 of 1404
Yes. Just tie all the end-run cables together. This is electrically and topologically the same as daisy-chaining.

You didn't say where they were homerun to, so I don't know how convenient this is going to be. If you used Lutron cable, some of the wire gauges are pretty small, so you will need a really good small-wire stripper, and maybe a soldering iron.

I agree that you should withhold final payment from the installer until he figures it out himself. If he thinks he needs to open the walls, give him a quote on how much it will cost, noting that of course he will be responsible for that cost. Don't tell him how to fix it, just let him sweat. Maybe it will teach him not to lie to his customers.

If you've already paid him, send a bill for the cost of opening the walls to re-wire and threaten suit (small claims isn't expensive) unless he makes it right.

You're being screwed here. It's time to change from catcher to pitcher.
post #160 of 1404
If you intend to do this yourself, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS! Multiple MUX accessory power supplies are well covered.

T&M contracts can be hard to control. From your installers, ask for an accounting *now* of chargable hours-to-date, broken down by task. Once you get it, you can start disputing charges. Tell them to take out any hours (and materials) spent re-wiring (unless you used the wrong cable to begin with). Also tell them that you won't accept a charge for them learning how to hook up the system since they represented to you that they already knew how. Put it in writing.

And let's move this out of the sticky thread, shall we?
post #161 of 1404
Is this how everyone ran the CAT5 wire to the box?




I couldn't find a rough-in picture like this anywhere in this thread..... I have a temporary switch in place to run some lights in the room.

Thanks!
post #162 of 1404
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrodshook View Post

Is this how everyone ran the CAT5 wire to the box?




I couldn't find a rough-in picture like this anywhere in this thread..... I have a temporary switch in place to run some lights in the room.

Thanks!

That's the right way if you are using an emitter under the faceplate...
If you have access to Elan, their IRE-4 emitter comes without the case, otherwise buy a Xantech emitter and carefully remove the shell and secure it on the unit behind the hole in the plate as described early in this thread.

BTW, nice work on "buttering" the box with acoustical sealant. Be sure to fill in the gap around the box nice and tight before sliding that GRX into the box for the final install.
post #163 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinemascope View Post

That's the right way if you are using an emitter under the faceplate...
If you have access to Elan, their IRE-4 emitter comes without the case, otherwise buy a Xantech emitter and carefully remove the shell and secure it on the unit behind the hole in the plate as described early in this thread.

BTW, nice work on "buttering" the box with acoustical sealant. Be sure to fill in the gap around the box nice and tight before sliding that GRX into the box for the final install.

Thanks! I made sure I lathered the penetrations really good. I have 16 tubes of USG Acoustical Sealant being delivered this week to seal all the joints, outlet and switch boxes, etc.

Will the faceplate cover the wire? I don't know how much overhang there is....

I already bought the Xantech 291 kit. I'll dig into the "removing the shell" stuff when the time comes. Thanks again for the answer!
post #164 of 1404
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrodshook View Post

Thanks! I made sure I lathered the penetrations really good. I have 16 tubes of USG Acoustical Sealant being delivered this week to seal all the joints, outlet and switch boxes, etc.

Will the faceplate cover the wire? I don't know how much overhang there is....

Not much... Keep it as tight as possible to the side of the GRX before you snap the faceplate on.

Quote:


I already bought the Xantech 291 kit. I'll dig into the "removing the shell" stuff when the time comes. Thanks again for the answer!

I totally forgot about the Xantech 282x.
It is the same as the 282m, except no outer case...

Hey, we passed 15K views here on the old Grafik Eye thread!!

I sure hope that the banner advertisers who sell Lutron and have benefitted from the extra business remember to take care of those of us who built this thing.

Dimmers.net?? if you are out there... my PM is in my profile and if you would like to throw me a freebie, I have a perfect spot for a GRX-3506T-MN
post #165 of 1404
I could use a Sivoia motor controller and a GRX-CIR-BR (infrared pickup in brown).

PM Rick for my mailing address.


Attached are some bad pics of the SeeTouch wallstations with the backlights showing for those that wanted to see how it looks. These pics were hard to get with a digital camera. In low light the color goes way off. The first is with a quick flash on a slow exposure so the color is close to correct. The white thing is a fan controller. The second used no flash so is way too yellow. The lettering actually looks milky white. You can see, though, that it is quite visible in a darkened room.

The third pic is shot like the first but didn't pick up the backlighting all that well. I include it to show how the controls disappear with black on black. Left to right are two Diva dimmers and a SG-4SI-BL-EGN SeeTouch wallstation.

(Installing that three-gang box was a bear! The old box was two-gang and the door moulding is somewhat wider than the original so the box had to move away from the stud. It is sitting about centered in a 10" stud cavity, so had to be mounted on a hanger. I had to use gangable metal boxes because plastic boxes don't work with a hanger. Since it's an outside wall I pulled 3/4" flex conduit to make any future re-wiring easier. Then I found out that no threaded conduit connector will clear the wallstation body! And of course the sheetrock had to be cut out and rebuilt. Just got finished with the final paint touch-up. Whew! )
LL
LL
LL
post #166 of 1404
Thread Starter 
What is the white keypad?? Old ceiling fan speed controller??

If you want to replace it, I know where you can get some nice Maetro controls with a fan speed control and a dimmer on a single decora insert...



...and it comes in Black.

http://www.lutron.com/maestro/maestr...=17000&t=17200
post #167 of 1404
That's a new fan controller, less than 8 months old. The fan ships with an RF receiver, but no remote, just the wall controller.

No light, so Maestro MA-FQ4M ($75 list) or Diva DV-FSQF ($38). Replacing the controller would be a nice touch. Thanks for the pointer.
post #168 of 1404
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

That's a new fan controller, less than 8 months old. The fan ships with an RF receiver, but no remote, just the wall controller.

No light, so Maestro MA-FQ4M ($75 list) or Diva DV-FSQF ($38). Replacing the controller would be a nice touch. Thanks for the pointer.

Fans are always tough... Even though it's not appropriate for your application, I am glad that they are shipping that new Maestro model with fan and light on a single unit.

The integrated light controls on the OE fan switches in retros required pulling out the boxes to add a larger box, which makes them a little harder than they are worth.
post #169 of 1404
Unofficially of course....can I safely put 13x65watts=845 watts on a single Grafik Eye zone? I'm 45 watts over. Will the thing shut down or will I burn my house down?
All other zones are well under their limit, and the 845 watt zone will almost never be run at anything over about 80% intensity.

Flyboy
post #170 of 1404
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyboy@39zero View Post

Unofficially of course....can I safely put 13x65watts=845 watts on a single Grafik Eye zone? I'm 45 watts over. Will the thing shut down or will I burn my house down?
All other zones are well under their limit, and the 845 watt zone will almost never be run at anything over about 80% intensity.

Flyboy

Officially and unofficially... Do not overload any zone on a Grafik Eye, or exceed the maximum overall rating for a Grafik Eye.

Insurance inspectors who come by after a fire or other electrical catastrophe could use this as an excuse to not cover any damages... How about that for a reason to stay within the limits??

If you can step up to a larger unit, or multiple units, to achieve what you need.

If you are not already using the largest single box GRX (6 zone), I would step up and just spread out the loads on additional zones. I am sure that if you take another step back and look again at that lighting plan, there will be additional seperations that make sense to create additional scenes.

If you still really want all 13 fixtures to act as one, nobody is saying that you couldn't just split them on two zones and then program the zones to track identically (level and fade time) to the scene commands...

If you are already at six zones and do not really want to install a second unit for more zone capacity, consider using the Power Booster (NGRX-PB) See Post 20 on Page 1 of this thread for more info and information links.

Thirteen fixtures is a LOT to have on one zone... I rarely have that many fixtures on one zone of a whole house lighting job using HomeWorks panels.
post #171 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinemascope View Post

Officially and unofficially...


I hear what your saying and yes it makes a lot of sense. Actually the larger unit has already come into play (or thoughts). Due to either poor planing or the fact that I'm temporarily hooking everything up to make sure I like what I see before I can't change it, I've come to realize that I would really like/ need a 6 zone system rather than the 4 zone I just bought.
Unfortunately, the company I bought it from will not let you return a Grafik eye, even for a larger unit, if its ever been turned on. On the other hand, using a 6 zone system would still not let me split the 13 light zone since I added lights and need 6 zones.
I guess buying another 4 zone would let me add two zones and split the 13 zone...leaving one zone unused (yes I know about the 25watt min load).
This leads to another question that I haven't researched or seriously consider...until now; could I use that remaining zone to run electric window shades? Do they require a zone or are they PELV only?

Attached is 13 cans on one zone, it is the rec room end of my "great room" and yes the theater end is much more tame. ...oh and they currently have 60 watt bulbs as to NOT over load the zone.

Cheers,
Flyboy
LL
post #172 of 1404
If you get a newer GE, they added a new load type for their Sivoia shades, so you can control them directly from a zone. (I believe you can also control their other shade line, too.) Lutron shades are pricey, so be sure you want to go that way before you make it a requirement.
post #173 of 1404
FYI,
A new GE is out of my budget right now. After having a look, Sivoia shades will never be in my budget! I bought a GE power booster to fix my wattage issue and put some lites that would most likely only be used while entertaining on manual dimmers where the wiring can be accessed for a future GE upgrade.
On another note, I bought way to much PELV wire for my Seetouch switches. Would it be worth while to run this wire to my basement windows and sliding glass door for future non-Sivoia shades?

Flyboy
post #174 of 1404
How much is "way too much" PELV? I cant decide if I will need or want a wall station and if I do I haven't bought any PELV. If you have a lot I might buy some from you.


Scott

(in El Dorado, BTW)
post #175 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoSport View Post

How much is "way too much" PELV? I cant decide if I will need or want a wall station and if I do I haven't bought any PELV. If you have a lot I might buy some from you.


Scott

(in El Dorado, BTW)

About 175' too much. I was originally going to hide my GE, run three wall switches and install the Silvola shades. In the end I decided not to hide the GE, only run two wall switches, and decided the the Lutron shades were way too expensive.
If the wire is useful for "other" motorized shades I'll probably use another 50' of it.
Anyhow, one way or another I'm going to have an extra 100' plus....and an extra See Touch switch. If your interested PM me. I'll unload it cheap....though I wonder what's more expensive, gas or shipping!

Flyboy
post #176 of 1404
flyboy you have a pm.
post #177 of 1404
Zone control question: Is there any way to raise and lower a single zone without effecting the others attached to the same 3100 series GRX?

I finally finished all of the drywall in the basement and the HT completed but I'm finding I cannot do exactly what I want with the unit...which is individual control of the HT zone without the remote (MX-3000) raising or lowering the rest of the basement.

Can it be done or do I need to step up to a 3500 series? And does anyone have one of those cheap.
post #178 of 1404
Please be clear on what you want. Do you want to be able to change a single zone from the remote? If that's the question, then afaik, no you can't. A 3500 isn't different from a 3100 in that regard.

Why is it that you want to change a single zone? Can't you just program several scenes with that zone at different levels? Of course, you can always change the zone at the GE front panel.

With a 3500 (and a GRX-PRG and a PC with the Liaison software) there is a sneaky way to do what you want. Create a scene with all zones that you don't want to change set as UA (unaffected). When you select that scene from the remote, they will stay unchanged. Then using the scene raise/lower commands, only the zone that is not set to UA will change.
post #179 of 1404
Thread Starter 
Technically he could raise and lower the individual zones with a GRX-3500, but it would require more than a change to the 3500...

He would need an MRF-250 or 300 base, connected to a Xantech IRS-232A which would need to be programmed to output the RS-232 strings into the GRX-232 or a GRX-PRG to raise and lower the individual zones.

It's kind of a mess, but it is possible.

I would just ditch the MX-3000 and pick up an RTI T3 with the RP-6 base that can output RS-232 directly.
post #180 of 1404
Okay, so DMF smacked me back to reality and cinemascope scared the hell outta me!

About 3/4 of the way into this, I realized that the 3106 wasn't really gonna fit my needs, but since everything was wired and a lot of rock had been hung I decided to go ahead with it. The situation is that I have a dedicated HT as well as a lounge/bar area in the basement. The GRX controls lighting for the entire setup and I'd hoped to be able to adjust the lights as needed within the theater without effecting the bar lights.

I see DMF's logic in just setting up a bunch of scenes that would have the main lights at a fixed point and provide gradients to the HT. My ignorance was that I wasn't thinking through the raise/lower functionality a remote would provide. I had hoped that when you set the lights in a scene, you could lock them in as required but adjust ones that were not locked.

II do have an MRF-300 and it sounds like the 3500 could *almost* do what I'm after, but it's just not worth the pain and expense. I really appreciate DMF and cinemascope's responses, though. Thanks guys!

-chad
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