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the definitive Grafik Eye master thread!! - Page 31

post #901 of 1404
You can at least automate it.
http://www.grafikeye.in/CMS400/pageb...=16949&mn=1803

Like DMF said though may be worth a call to support.
post #902 of 1404
I'm moving this post into this thread as it deals with using (or not) the Grafik eye.

So I'm about to start building my theater and I'm trying to figure out if I should wire this room with a Grafik Eye or stick to my HAI/ALC install. The HAI/ALC install is basically a home automation panel than among other things controls the lighting in my home. Each switch for each light load is controlled via a CAT5 wire, allowing you to write logic as to when the light should come on, ramp rate etc. Basically the room will have 6 zones of lighting. I can either run a grafik eye to control the zones, and possibly use some universal IR device to control it, or I can set each individual lighting zone on an ALC dimmer, controlled via HAI (home automation), controlled via a touchscreen. Thoughts? Suggestions?


Thanks
post #903 of 1404
2 very different approaches to your lighting solution. I would say that it depends on how you want to go about automating everything. The GE would look a lot nicer/cleaner over a bank of 6 switches if you are going to have the unit visible. If you will have the unit in lets say a closet, then astetics wont really matter. While you can control your GE with an IR remote or IR accessory, most if not all automation systems will offer you some sort of adapter to go to IR which will allow you to still control your GE.

If you plan to automate the rest of your homes lighting I would say it would probably be easier to go with the same solution through out. You can probably start out with an Insteon system and expand it as you go or can.

I really like the GE and I use it to control 6 zones in my basment 3 inside the theater 3 outside. It's placed just outside my HT room entrance. With a GRX-CIR-WH which is an IR accessory I am able to fully control it from within the theater. I would go with this setup if I had to do it all over again for just basement and HT, but I do like what Insteon has to offer especially with the capability to control lighting when your away from home thru WI-FI and having the ability to use I-touch/pod and now the I-Pad. If I were doing my entire home I would go with that for a solution.
post #904 of 1404
I've got a 3106 on the way. Im super excited. so many button to push.
post #905 of 1404
Can anyone tell me what the minimum wattage is per zone to dim properly an a 3106. I hand't realized there was a minimum wattage requirement till i just read it somewhere, could put a damper on some of my plans....lol...
post #906 of 1404
I may be wrong but I believe it is 25 watt minimum for it to work properly. There is an accessory you can add to make up the difference when the time comes, or keep adding lights
post #907 of 1404
Have you considered reading the product documentation?
post #908 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

Have you considered reading the product documentation?


What a novel idea!






I guess if all else fails, read the instruction manual. :P
post #909 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by oman321 View Post

I may be wrong but I believe it is 25 watt minimum for it to work properly. There is an accessory you can add to make up the difference when the time comes, or keep adding lights

Thanks oman, helpful as always. :-) Ive got a small picture frame accent type light im putting over my A/V rack and I was planning on putting it on its own leg but it only had 2-15 watt bulbs, and i started read about this minimum load requirment i wanted to make sure it would still work. If you are right i guess ill be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

Have you considered reading the product documentation?

Ive tried, ive looked at 2 or 3 documents online, including a spec sheet, installation instructions, and like a general overview...and i cant find anything like an owners manual or something like that online, i may just be looking in the wrong spot...

I know theres a maximum load of 800 watts per zone with a max of 2000 total on the 3106, and what type of loads i can use blah blah blah, but I've never seen anywhere about the minimum load required for dimming, except here and there in a few threads i've read that stated there is a minimum load requirment but noone was saying what it was...so i figured it would be a simple thing for someone else who already new to tell me...mine is still in the mail...so i havent had a chance to look at any documentation that will come with it, and im tryin to decide how to wire for accent lighting over my A/V rack.

But thanks for the suggestion.....
post #910 of 1404
Installation Guide, p.2 ("Step 1"): "Not all zones need to be connected; however, connected zones must have a load of at least 25W (40W for AU and CE models)." right before the 800W maximum.

It's also in App Note S7.

Interestingly, I haven't been able to find it anywhere else.
post #911 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

Installation Guide, p.2 ("Step 1"): "Not all zones need to be connected; however, connected zones must have a load of at least 25W (40W for AU and CE models)." right before the 800W maximum.

It's also in App Note S7.

Interestingly, I haven't been able to find it anywhere else.

Lol... touché......


I must have skimmed over it 2 or 3 times. I was looking at the charts not the step by step instructions, i guess thats what i get for not being thorough. I guess i would have eventually found it when i went to install it. It just came in the mail about 3 hours ago.
post #912 of 1404
Have you found the GRAFIK Eye® 3000 Training Segments videos on the Technical Info page? They're not about installation, but how to use it.
post #913 of 1404
I had not seen those, thanks.
post #914 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by marklabelle870 View Post

Quick question for troubleshooting.

I have a GE 3400 series and I ran the PELV cable from the GE to an accesorry panel in the lobby. Everything works fine from that perspective. I can control all scenes, etc. I also ran a PELV cable from the GE to the equipment room and connected it to a GE - IRI for IR. I then ran an IR blaster from the URC MRF-350 to the GE-IRI and pasted it on the back of the unit. So to recap, I have 2 PELV's out of the GE - one to accessory - one to the GE-IRI unit.

Here's my problem. I can control the GE in the room using IR. However, if I turn off the IR on the URC MX-980 and try and use RF - nothing works. The green light on the GE-IRI unit blinks, the MRF-350 blinks, the RF receiver blinks, but no scene changes.

I'm stumped. I have tried everything I can think of for troubleshooting. Wiring is fine, remote is fine, blaster is fine, receiver and transmitter is fine... Nada on the GE through RF.

Any thoughts - no matter how off the wall - are appreciated.

Thanks,

Mark

Well I now got the IRI to work with the GE. I had to set the dip switch on the IRI to 9 per the manual and then address the GE to an address (I used A1). NICE! Everything works on the IR side.

My problem now is that the accessory panel in the lobby won't control any scenes at all. I opened up the accessory panel and then addressed it on the 4 dip switches as 1. So to recap:

IRI - Dip Switches 1 and 9
GE - Addressed as A1
Accessory Panel - Dip Switch 1

I've tried all the switches on the accessory panel and nothing. Just the Scene 3 on the panel lights up, but I can't control anything. The manuals just aren't that clear to me. Must be user error. When the GE was not addressed as A1 the accessory panel worked fine.

Any thoughts on what to set the Accessory panel as?
post #915 of 1404
"accessory panel"

You mean wallstation? Which one do you have?
post #916 of 1404
Here are some detail pictures of Lutron's lighting use only receptacle for connection to dimmers (i.e. Grafik Eye controllers). This is Lutron model NTR-15-DFDU. Internally, it is a Cooper (Arrow Hart) 6262 receptacle with a custom face plate. It is a very nice device with clamp style connectors. Solid. Note the duplex outlet has break off tabs to electrically separate the top from the bottom. Lutron packages this receptacle with a single gang screwless wall plate. The outlet is available in 15A and 20A versions as well as a hybrid face with only one lighting outlet.




post #917 of 1404
It requires a special plug. (Included?) Price?
post #918 of 1404
More pictures of the dedicated lighting outlet. The mating plug is Lutron's RP-FDU-10 which was $12 at Hank's electric. The outlet was $28.60 at Hank's. The bad thing about the plug is that it only accepts zipcord.



post #919 of 1404
I am considering a mixed Homeworks \\ Grafik Eye QS environment and hoped to get a few pointers from the group. My home is a large 70s modern remodel. Some walls are open but will soon be closed. Many are shimmed on concrete. I am looking to put a home theater in with basic lighting, six shades and six blackout shades. I also need to control six shades on the room above. I would prefer not to stray from Homeworks and Grafik Eye QS, since those two platforms are supported by my automation system(s). For personal reasons I would prefer not to use RF lights. Here are my main questions...

1. The reason for Homeworks is that, as a remodel, the house has a lot of single gang lights that I would like to control. Home running control cable to those is relatively simple. But rerouting line voltage from multiple lights to a GE QS box would be tough. I don't need to control them from a single spot on the wall. Is this logic correct?

2. The reason for Grafik Eye QS is that it seems like a more futureproof platform for things that don't exist yet, like new light runs and shading. It also seems like a cleaner solution for an existing four or five gang box, especially where some switches are double so there isn't enough room for all single homeworks dimmers anyway. True?

3. Can I run three sets of six shades from one QS and just wire a controller for the room directly above?

4. Any special wiring to, from or between QS units besides the line voltage, and the four pair shielded for remote wall plates? Do they all need ethernet for third party automation? Or do they need four pair shielded in series and just one ethernet for third party automation?

5. I think that I can wire my garage door opener and natural gas fireplace on lutron homeworks switches and check their state and control them from a third party platform. I assume that nothing like this exists for GE QS.

6. I like the satin finishes. I know the homeworks keypad is available in satin white (snow). Does the homework maestro switch come in that same satin white to match the GE QS?

7. Finally, I assume that there is no Lutron integration between homeworks and Grafik Eye QS.
post #920 of 1404
"I would prefer not to use RF lights." What are RF lights?

1. "single gang outlets"? As a rule you don't control an outlet from a dimmer. Most things that plug into outlets will fry either themselves or the dimmer. What are on these outlets that you do want to control?

2. One of us isn't following something. Please explain. Lights are lights; they're not going to change. And if I'm understanding you correctly, you're mapping an individual lamp (or whatever is on an individual switch) to a controller zone?

3. "Can I run three sets of six shades from one QS" You mean Lutron shades? I think so, but check the specs.
" and just wire a controller for the room directly above?" You could do either, but consider function. Is there any reason to synchronize control of shades on two floors? What about future expansion? What about lights?

4. QS (or older Grafik Eye) control units do not need to be on the same power leg, if that's what you mean. If you want them to interoperate, you'll need to connect them with the data cable (and then set addresses, etc.)

5. No idea.

6. Probably. Check the catalog.

7. No. The data buses use different protocols.

I get the impression you're thinking of QS solely as a shade controller. That's massive under-utilization. For a theater you should also integrate it with the lighting. If that means re-running power to some lights (and why should it as few rooms are properly lighted for HT function - you'll need to install new), then bite the bullet and do it while you have the walls open.

You haven't described enough functions to justify Homeworks so I don't know how you'll be using it. But be aware that existing Homeworks is built on older Grafik Eye technology (which is why it's incompatible with QS). A new Homeworks built on QS technology is due soon.

You might be better served by
  1. integrating older GE with current Homeworks (I'd much rather have GE control units managing groups of fixtures than single dimmers all over the place),
  2. using only Homeworks (yes it can control shades too),
  3. using QS and waiting on the new Homeworks (I'd use the RF version of QS in this case)

You won't get many answers about Homeworks here, btw. Like the 4000+ series GEs, Lutron does not consider it a user-installable system. If you really want a whole-house system, you would be well served to hire a professional.
post #921 of 1404
DMF - Thanks for the quick reply...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

"I would prefer not to use RF lights." What are RF lights?

I meant light switches like RadioRA that communicate on RF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

1. "single gang outlets"? As a rule you don't control an outlet from a dimmer. Most things that plug into outlets will fry either themselves or the dimmer. What are on these outlets that you do want to control?

I should have said lighting switches in a single gang box. I have edited my post to clear up where I wasn't using the right terminology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

2. One of us isn't following something. Please explain. Lights are lights; they're not going to change. And if I'm understanding you correctly, you're mapping an individual lamp (or whatever is on an individual switch) to a controller zone?

My point was that where the lights are not yet installed its easy to run wires to put them all in one switch, as opposed to my current installation in single gang boxes all over that I would have to tear out and re-drywall to move.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

3. "Can I run three sets of six shades from one QS" You mean Lutron shades? I think so, but check the specs.
" and just wire a controller for the room directly above?" You could do either, but consider function. Is there any reason to synchronize control of shades on two floors? What about future expansion? What about lights?

Cost is the only reason. Yeah, the room has lights but I probably won't use any scenes. Certainly I won't use any on wall controllers to enact a scene. Maybe I would use the automation platform to map a light and a shade to a button on an ipad or other remote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

6. Probably. Check the catalog.

I can't really tell from the availability of that color and that product from the online catalog. If noone knows offhand, I will call and ask.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

I get the impression you're thinking of QS solely as a shade controller. That's massive under-utilization. For a theater you should also integrate it with the lighting. If that means re-running power to some lights (and why should it as few rooms are properly lighted for HT function - you'll need to install new), then bite the bullet and do it while you have the walls open.

No I realize it does lights and scenes, but I don't think that wall controlled scenes would be worth the trouble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

You haven't described enough functions to justify Homeworks so I don't know how you'll be using it. But be aware that existing Homeworks is built on older Grafik Eye technology (which is why it's incompatible with QS). A new Homeworks built on QS technology is due soon.

I would be curious if anyone is speculating as to how the new homeworks QS would be different? Same topography but different protocol? Having a central controller on standard decora size switches is really handy in my remodel case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

You won't get many answers about Homeworks here, btw. Like the 4000+ series GEs, Lutron does not consider it a user-installable system. If you really want a whole-house system, you would be well served to hire a professional.

I guess the difference is homeworks is entire home and GE QS is for one room. Probably obvious to everyone else. I never really thought about it. I am more of a do it yourself guy.
post #922 of 1404
If I'm not mistaken, isn't Homeworks predominately RF?
Edit: It's both wired and RF. Since you're a remodel, the wired bit seems to have little application.
Btw, I trust you've found this page? From looking at the catalogs you'd never know what the full systems can do, except look pretty...

Quote:


Quote:


Is there any reason to synchronize control of shades on two floors?

Cost is the only reason. Yeah, the room has lights but I probably won't use any scenes. Certainly I won't use any on wall controllers to enact a scene. Maybe I would use the automation platform to map a light and a shade to a button on an ipad or other remote.

Then forget about using a controller (such as QS) altogether and install a simple shade control. Using an automation controller of some form to activate the control seems appropriate.

Quote:


I don't need to control them from a single spot on the wall. Is this logic correct?

Quote:


No I realize it [QS] does lights and scenes, but I don't think that wall controlled scenes would be worth the trouble.

I am formally confused as to why you're choosing QS and/or Homeworks. Forget about how it's to be done, just tell us what you want to do. Do you only want to turn your lights on and off? Dim them? In groups or singlely? At the same time as your shades?

The classic vision for theater control is to push a button and have the house lights dim, the shades drop, and a movie come up on the screen. When it's finished push another button and shades go up and the lights go on.

And what about outside the theater? If you just want to be able to activate an existing switch remotely, then you aren't scratching the surface of what a whole-house system can do. Most of its raison d'être is coordination of function. But you haven't described a single coordinated function.

Turn the outside lights on at dusk? Then off at midnight?

What about a Panic button? All lights on full - inside and out - shades up. All room controls locked out. Surveillance cameras on Record.

These things can be done.


Quote:


I guess the difference is homeworks is entire home and GE QS is for one room.

In terms of design scope that is true, but in terms of application it's not. There's nothing limiting QS to one room. It doesn't even have to be located in the space where it's controlled. Think of GE/QS as one element of a whole-house system. You can gang up to 8 together to make up your own whole-house system. But the investment in learning how and the expense of covering your mistakes is considerable.

That's why Lutron is set up for professional installation of whole-house systems. First, it's very difficult to convey what such a system can and can't do. Second, they can be quite difficult to specify and even more difficult to get working smoothly. Even if you do your own installation, it would pay you to have a pro design and spec the system for you.
post #923 of 1404
Quick question about the wireless system Lutron uses.

I live in a condo and while I highly doubt anyone else is using a Lutron wireless automation system, is it designed in such a way that neighboring systems won't interfere with eachother?

Thanks.
post #924 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post

Quick question about the wireless system Lutron uses.

I live in a condo and while I highly doubt anyone else is using a Lutron wireless automation system, is it designed in such a way that neighboring systems won't interfere with eachother?

Thanks.

Just answered my own question:

From the Lutron brochure
"Unique codes per household means co-located systems will
not cross-talk"

post #925 of 1404
That's right, when you are in the activate mode the Radio Ra sends out a signal looking for other devices that are using the same code. If another device is already using it the RadioRa switches to another code and checks again - until a clear code set is found.
If down the road you thought you were being interfered with by another device you could go thru the activate mode in the startup program to get the RR to change codes.

Bill
post #926 of 1404
GRX-IA-6-A-B - I am watching this item on beay...But I cant find any documents online...I am sorry i am not familiar with Grafik Eye model numbers..all i knoe 3000,3500
help me out..
post #927 of 1404
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=557480&page=4

According to post 91 on page 4 of this thread it is the equivelant of a GRX 3506.

http://www.lutron.com/techInfo/SpecS...0EAa200007.pdf

According to the pdf document, set up must be made via a pc.
post #928 of 1404
Quote:
Originally Posted by oman321 View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=557480&page=4

According to the pdf document, set up must be made via a pc.

Thanks ......
post #929 of 1404
Hello. I'm building a basement home theater and have four lighting zones I want to control from a single point with a GRX (no extra wall stations). I would like to use a Logitech Harmony 1100 universal remote to control the GRX. Which GRX (and/or accessories) is right for me and what is the difference between Grafik Eye & Grafik Eye QS?
post #930 of 1404
Please help me out : Urgent

GRX 6 zone 3106 model for $375 is a good deal??? new one...
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