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New moto 6412 with HDMI and SATA - Page 3

post #61 of 1929
8/17/05 at 10:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobm View Post

The box appears to be loaded for bear. Remains to be seen how quickly they make use of the features.

This is really the crux of the issue right here. Even the existing 6412 I have is loaded with features that are not activated.

Another question: Does the new 6412 have the option of a Tivo guide instead of the iGuide? Or is this an option that is coming in the near future?

Also, what cities and/or cable companies have received these units?
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post #62 of 1929
8/17/05 at 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by USCsuperfan View Post

What about having a different firmware? Any benefit to version 12.xx versus 9.19?

No additional features besides the "possible" expansion SATA drive?

Read on another forum that the speed of the UI is greatly improved. No lag between key presses. I don't currently have an existing 6412 so I won't be able to compare when I (hopefully) get mine tomorrow.
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post #63 of 1929
8/17/05 at 10:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by USCsuperfan View Post

This is really the crux of the issue right here. Even the existing 6412 I have is loaded with features that are not activated.

Another question: Does the new 6412 have the option of a Tivo guide instead of the iGuide? Or is this an option that is coming in the near future?

Also, what cities and/or cable companies have received these units?

I think you have to keep in mind the previous models were more of an existing product that Comcast deployed. If you believe the News Corp folks, it was purely a defensive move. The connectivity on the back wouldn't necessarily have suited Comcast's long range plans.

This box, OTOH, is clearly an offensive effort. I failed to mention it also has VOIP onboard. That's a huge push nationwide for Comcast right now, putting them well ahead in the triple play effort. You only need a handset besides this box to use the service. No more external modems. Don't know how that pans out with the earlier models.

Yup, the more I look at this box, it's clear this is more than just an incremental hardware change. With DVR deployment on the upswing, these guys could potentially have several hundred thousand, perhaps upwards of a half a million of these boxes installed before D* or the RBOCs(SBC in my case) can even respond with an HD media center of their own. Strategically, this puts them in a strong position going forward. I think the next 6-12 months could be interesting.

The Tivo drivers are onboard with this chipset. That's a setup for a full software upgrade later.
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post #64 of 1929
8/17/05 at 10:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LYU370 View Post

Read on another forum that the speed of the UI is greatly improved. No lag between key presses. I don't currently have an existing 6412 so I won't be able to compare when I (hopefully) get mine tomorrow.

You would expect it to be. The processor alone is a leap forward on this box. I think as this thing rolls out and more end users start reporting in, we might hear about a whole host of new niceties, along with a few bugs, I'm sure.
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post #65 of 1929
8/17/05 at 11:03am
I don't know how bad the lag was with the old one (didn't have it), but on mine I have noticed when watching HD that I can push the channel up/down button, nothing happens, I push it again, maybe a third time, then all of a sudden the channel changes by 3.
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post #66 of 1929
8/17/05 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by USCsuperfan View Post

This is really the crux of the issue right here. Even the existing 6412 I have is loaded with features that are not activated.

Another question: Does the new 6412 have the option of a Tivo guide instead of the iGuide? Or is this an option that is coming in the near future?

Also, what cities and/or cable companies have received these units?

Whether or not the TiVo interface will be used depends on the cable co, Comcast has indicated they will offer it, but it will be above and beyond the standard interface, meaning it will have an additional cost to the subscriber.

Your right, the 6412 does have a lot of unused potential, but there again, even with the new boxes it boils down to how much effort in support and revenue the cableco will realize from offering their subs greater functionality. We all want it, but does a company like Comcast for example want to have to deal with the support issue of say, making sure customers SATA drives are working properly, or that the ethernet port works with everyone's hubs? Competition, cost and support issues will all weigh in on whether or not certain functionality will be offered.
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post #67 of 1929
8/17/05 at 10:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LYU370 View Post

Are the phase 3 boxes finally smart enough to switch tuners on their own or do you still have to hit the swap button?

reybie says "It's not as smart as the dual tuner directivos that automatically switches tuners when you're recording something and want to watch another channel"

I have either the 1st or 2nd gen 6412 and if you program it to record a show that comes on while you are watching another channel it will always record on the opposite tuner than you are viewing so as not to interrupt the user. The only time you need to manually switch tuners is if you decide to start a manual recording of something you are watching. If you want to surf while that is recording you have to go to the other tuner.


Quote:


WiFi-Spy says " Infact our swap button does nothing when you push it. "

It may appear that way, but it isn't. The second tuner mirrors the first until there is a call for it. When a programmed recording is in progress with the 2nd tuner you will see a red indicator light on the upper right of the Moto display. If you are watching a different channel then what is being recorded press the tuner button and you will now see the channel being recorded. Press the button again and it will return you to the original tuner and channel you were watching.
You can tell what tuner is recording by the display. If its the one you are watching the display will say "REC". If its the second tuner it will be the red light.

What I like is that you can record 2 programs and watch a third from its DVR drive.
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post #68 of 1929
8/18/05 at 11:23am
Well Comcast showed up, they brought the wrong box, so I sent them away. Sorry can't test the SATA port yet.
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post #69 of 1929
8/18/05 at 2:25pm
I am considering going for the Comcast/Moto DVR, but I have a couple questions.

1) How bad is the interface (w/ the latest firmware) compared to TiVo? I have 2 Series 1 TiVos right now and I love them, very easy to use, very intuitive. Anything that really annoys current/previous TiVo users?

2) My TiVos are hacked w/ network connections and TiVoWeb so I can set stuff via the web. I assume that this feature is not available on the Comcast/Moto box, despite the Eth connector on the back, right?

3) My HDTV only has HDMI (and component of course), will Comcast provide me with an HDMI cable, or do I need to have one for them to hook up the box via HDMI?

Thanks

-Brett
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post #70 of 1929
8/18/05 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedvdguy View Post

I am considering going for the Comcast/Moto DVR, but I have a couple questions.

1) How bad is the interface (w/ the latest firmware) compared to TiVo? I have 2 Series 1 TiVos right now and I love them, very easy to use, very intuitive. Anything that really annoys current/previous TiVo users?

2) My TiVos are hacked w/ network connections and TiVoWeb so I can set stuff via the web. I assume that this feature is not available on the Comcast/Moto box, despite the Eth connector on the back, right?

3) My HDTV only has HDMI (and component of course), will Comcast provide me with an HDMI cable, or do I need to have one for them to hook up the box via HDMI?

Thanks

-Brett

1) It's quite awful. Honestly. But I'm getting used to it slowly, but it's nowhere as easy as a Tivo, nor quite as intelligent. But the picture...soooo worth it.

2) Nada. Zip. Zero. Zilch.

3) no idea, not in that area, but Insight here provided me with a choice of cables, I needed a DVI-HDMI and it was $12 I think.

On the Tivo bit: I've been using Tivo's of various flavors since around 2000 or so and I've been througha lot of changes with them and they are by far easier to operate than the 6412. That being said they are improving over their older systems by a wide margin, and I expect that to keep happening. I still have my Tivo's hooked up to the tv, and while i take the resolution hit, I just can't stop using them. YMMV, caveat emptor etc etc etc...
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post #71 of 1929
8/18/05 at 4:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedvdguy View Post

1) How bad is the interface (w/ the latest firmware) compared to TiVo? I have 2 Series 1 TiVos right now and I love them, very easy to use, very intuitive. Anything that really annoys current/previous TiVo users?

Having just switched from DirecTiVo, here are my main gripes so far:

-- No way to save searches--you can create a series recording (like a Season Pass), but only if some episode of it is actually showing in the next few days (i.e. is in your guide). This isn't a huge deal, since I mostly relied on Season Passes rather than Wishlists, but it does mean that if there's a series that doesn't happen to be showing currently, you can't add a series recording for it.

-- It's more of a pain to enter the title for a search (you have to scroll through the whole alphabet instead of having a grid of letters).

-- If you accidentally try to turn off the box in the middle of a recording, it will ask if you want to cancel the recording. You basically should just leave the box on all the time. (This was true with the TiVos too, but they didn't have a power button at all on the remote, really, so you never had to worry about accidentally hitting it.)

-- Generally feels like more button presses to do simple things. The UI doesn't feel well-organized.

Quote:


3) My HDTV only has HDMI (and component of course), will Comcast provide me with an HDMI cable, or do I need to have one for them to hook up the box via HDMI?

You'll have to buy one yourself, as well as a female HDMI/male DVI adapter if you get one of the older 6412s with the DVI port (apparently the newer ones have an HDMI port). These cables aren't cheap, btw--at my local Best Buy a 6' HDMI cable was $75, and that wasn't even a Monster cable. You can get them much cheaper online, e.g. from bluejeanscable.com (which has a 6' HDMI-to-DVI cable for about $37), but I was feeling impatient
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post #72 of 1929
8/18/05 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by knownzero View Post

3) no idea, not in that area, but Insight here provided me with a choice of cables, I needed a DVI-HDMI and it was $12 I think.

Wow. I sure got ripped off by buying my HDMI cable at Best Buy
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post #73 of 1929
8/18/05 at 7:39pm
I just bought a mess of cables from http://www.monoprice.com/home/index.asp

They haven't arrived yet, but on some other threads people were talking well of them. 6 foot HDMI-HDMI, gold plated $6.44. I stocked up on a bunch of stuff.
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post #74 of 1929
8/18/05 at 11:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrybud View Post

I have either the 1st or 2nd gen 6412 and if you program it to record a show that comes on while you are watching another channel it will always record on the opposite tuner than you are viewing so as not to interrupt the user. The only time you need to manually switch tuners is if you decide to start a manual recording of something you are watching. If you want to surf while that is recording you have to go to the other tuner.




It may appear that way, but it isn't. The second tuner mirrors the first until there is a call for it. When a programmed recording is in progress with the 2nd tuner you will see a red indicator light on the upper right of the Moto display. If you are watching a different channel then what is being recorded press the tuner button and you will now see the channel being recorded. Press the button again and it will return you to the original tuner and channel you were watching.
You can tell what tuner is recording by the display. If its the one you are watching the display will say "REC". If its the second tuner it will be the red light.

What I like is that you can record 2 programs and watch a third from its DVR drive.



Not on the MSTV guide software we have..... the swap button is useless...
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post #75 of 1929
8/19/05 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by knownzero View Post

I still have my Tivo's hooked up to the tv, and while i take the resolution hit, I just can't stop using them. YMMV, caveat emptor etc etc etc...

I still have my tivo in my system too, but I find with analog channels the 6412 is where I take the PQ hit. Analog looks much better from the tivo tuner than from the 6412 tuner. This will go away once the digital simulcast effort is complete in my area.

I only use the 6412 to record HD due to its space limitations. All non-HD recording is still done on my tivo.
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post #76 of 1929
8/19/05 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by scooterboy View Post

I still have my tivo in my system too, but I find with analog channels the 6412 is where I take the PQ hit. Analog looks much better from the tivo tuner than from the 6412 tuner. This will go away once the digital simulcast effort is complete in my area.

I only use the 6412 to record HD due to its space limitations. All non-HD recording is still done on my tivo.

That's interesting. The quality of the non-hd programming on HD channels (say channel 762 vs channel 4) is worse than the analog channels on the 6412 but both are superior to anything coming out of my Tivos. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the Tivo connections (tried em all now) or the cabling or the TV etc but I'm still not giving them up! Never!
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post #77 of 1929
8/20/05 at 9:18pm
Quote:


3) COMPOSITE. Same as S-VIDEO.

I called the comcast customer support line and got into a bizarre conversation with a rep who kept telling me that she could not understand why the tv guide would not work because she had it connected the same way (via s-video) at home. In fact she "knew how to fix these things before she even came to work for comcast because she had had a dvr for the past year".

She was insisting it was the dvr box that was at fault and had already sent 2 depth charges, or whatever they are, to it. Anyway after me pushing her that it must have something to do with the new monitor, after all nothing else had changed to the setup she says "Well there's a guy who knows a lot about computers here so I'll go and talk to him". He happened to be over the other side of the building so 5 minutes later she was back to tell me that he said I need to go and buy a connector from Radio Shack. Of course she being an old pro was referring to it is "the Shack". When I asked her what kind of connector I should get she said "I cannot remember what the computer expert told me a few minuts ago but they'll know at the Shack". Unreal...

You must be patient with these people however otherwise they get even worse. I asked her what connection out of the DVR I should use and what connection into my monitor I should use. This had her stumped and lumbering back across the building to the computer expert. Closer to 10 minutes later she was back. The walk seemed to overexert her as when she came back she was huffing and puffing like an old steam train. Anyway this time she had a completely different story for me. "Oh it's because you have a PC monitor that you cannot get the TV Guide. TV's have special stuff in them that prevents copyright theft and that's why you cannot ge the TV Guide. We even tried it out on his PC and it would not work - that's why I was so long."

At this point I gave up, thanked her kindly for her time and hung up. It blows my mind that Comcast does not have some kind of script that they run through to diagnose problems or at least a knowledge base to search on. Management is truly pathetic.

Now I know there are some real experts on this forum so can you give me any suggestions as to why I cannot use the guide on a PC monitor, regular Dell LCD with svideo, composite and dvi-d in?

Postscript: Wow I cannot believe I wrote for this long but it really is bugging me as my dvr is recording away and I cannot watch any of the programs.

When you have the STB set to display HD, it still downconverts the signal for all of the other ports but does not show the guide, menu, or flipbar. If you change the output settings for 480i you will get the menus. You do this by hitting menu while the STB is turned off.
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post #78 of 1929
8/21/05 at 9:52am
I'm a little lost on why some of the ports on the back of the STB are disabled. Is this because they just haven't enabled them through the firmware? You would think that Motorola would have to have a fully functioning unit with all ports enabled before they ships these out.

Sorry, just wondering out loud.

Ski
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post #79 of 1929
8/21/05 at 10:01am
It's not Motorola who decides what ports work it's the cable company.

Andrew Wees


Quote:
Originally Posted by skijackz View Post

I'm a little lost on why some of the ports on the back of the STB are disabled. Is this because they just haven't enabled them through the firmware? You would think that Motorola would have to have a fully functioning unit with all ports enabled before they ships these out.

Sorry, just wondering out loud.

Ski
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post #80 of 1929
8/22/05 at 8:09am
It sure would be nice if someone with one of these PIII boxes could try the SATA port to see if it will take an expansion drive. I saw SATA drives at Costco over the weekend about $160 for a 350G drive. (internal) but it sould be easy to find a SATA external housing.

PLEASE someone let us know. The falll programs are about to start and I am storage space poor.

Thanks,
David
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post #81 of 1929
8/23/05 at 8:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajwees41 View Post

It's not Motorola who decides what ports work it's the cable company.

Andrew Wees

It doesn't seem like Motorola has the time to throughly develop these STB's, so they load them up with the different hardware options (usb ports and firewire ports and HDMI or DVI ports and component ports, etc.) and ship them out before the software is developed or before the cable co's decide what they want to do with them.

It can also be that the software is ready and the cable co's want to do it, but it is not cost effective for them to train service techs and CSR's on how to support these functions. Recording by firewire to a PC is a perfect example. People are doing it because there are knowledgeable people on this forum showing them how to, however your cable co's people are not nearly as talented.
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post #82 of 1929
8/23/05 at 8:39am
Is it true that these phase 3 units have a ventilation fan built into the bottom? If so, does it make the box noisy?
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post #83 of 1929
8/23/05 at 8:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by USCsuperfan View Post

It doesn't seem like Motorola has the time to throughly develop these STB's, so they load them up with the different hardware options (usb ports and firewire ports and HDMI or DVI ports and component ports, etc.) and ship them out before the software is developed or before the cable co's decide what they want to do with them.

Motorola is trying to build a box that appeals to several different companies. I think you're expecting that all features will necessarily appeal to all MSO planned feature rollouts. Doesn't work that way.

Quote:


It can also be that the software is ready and the cable co's want to do it, but it is not cost effective for them to train service techs and CSR's on how to support these functions. Recording by firewire to a PC is a perfect example. People are doing it because there are knowledgeable people on this forum showing them how to, however your cable co's people are not nearly as talented.

It's easier to roll out hardware with these new capabilites as part of your normal DVR installs, then come in later with the software upgrade which can be pushed out to thousands at a time. If you prep the hardware and the software at the same time, you're forced to roll a truck for every customer who wants the new services. Simple logistics issue.

Who's to say the software isn't already in the can or close to being ready? We can all speculate.

The firewire example is not a good one, IMO. Any solution has to be plug and play and pretty much idiot proof to reach the masses. There is some hardware effort on the media storage side(Maxtor and Broadcom), so perhaps we'll see a mainstream solution being offered in the not too distant future.
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post #84 of 1929
8/23/05 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rictus View Post

Having just switched from DirecTiVo, here are my main gripes so far:

-- No way to save searches--you can create a series recording (like a Season Pass), but only if some episode of it is actually showing in the next few days (i.e. is in your guide). This isn't a huge deal, since I mostly relied on Season Passes rather than Wishlists, but it does mean that if there's a series that doesn't happen to be showing currently, you can't add a series recording for it.

-- It's more of a pain to enter the title for a search (you have to scroll through the whole alphabet instead of having a grid of letters).

-- If you accidentally try to turn off the box in the middle of a recording, it will ask if you want to cancel the recording. You basically should just leave the box on all the time. (This was true with the TiVos too, but they didn't have a power button at all on the remote, really, so you never had to worry about accidentally hitting it.)

-- Generally feels like more button presses to do simple things. The UI doesn't feel well-organized.

Just a note my cable co uses pioneer software and you can turn the box off in the middle of a recording and it keeps on recording just fine. Also when entering a title for a show you have a grid of letters. But my DVR uses pioneer software vs the tv guide stuff most use.
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post #85 of 1929
8/23/05 at 10:54am
Anyone know if this box is available through Comcast in DC? Slightly off topic, what is the current state of the Comcast Tivo deal? The phase 3 units apparently have tivo-capable hardware - is a rollout coming?

I'll also join the chorus of those waiting to see if the SATA port works, but judging from the continued non-support of firewire drives, I'm not holding my breath.
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post #86 of 1929
8/25/05 at 12:39am
Just received a DCT-6412 in Laurel, MD from Comcast today. Didn't quite realize what I had until after reading the forums! The only thing special that has been tested here is the firewire port for recording, which works like a charm. Hope to give the SATA port a spin soon.
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post #87 of 1929
8/29/05 at 6:40pm
Was having a problem getting one channel (232 NBC HD). Tech swapped the box out which didn't fix the problem but I noticed it didn't have DVI but did have HDMI and SATA.

Where can I buy a SATA drive to try and see if that port is active. Aren't all external HD's USB or Firewire? Never seen a SATA except for internal drives. I read somewhere you need to use a "special" drive.
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post #88 of 1929
8/29/05 at 7:02pm
I think you can get external housings that have a SATA interface to use with a standard IDE drive.
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post #89 of 1929
8/29/05 at 7:39pm
Check this thread for all the necessary pieces parts if you want to build your own.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=516559

Or you can get a Maxtor ot Seagate drive, check close to the end for that info.
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post #90 of 1929
8/30/05 at 5:56am
Does anyone know if the 6412's SATA connector is supposed to be SATA I or SATA II? I checked the Motorola site but didn't see any info on the phase III.
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