Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 498

Hey all,
I'll make this quick......
I'm considering the Signature C1 center speaker to go with Studio 60's and the Sub 12. The reason for this basically is size limitations in my AV stand and uncertainty over the CC-490 center speaker.
Has anyone ever mixed series, and what are the negative, if any, consequences of doing this? In MY mind moving up a level for the center can only be good......??
I'm also trying to learn what the important spec's are to pay attention to when considering a certain speaker. I know drivers are important but I'm not sure how to interpret the spec's and understand which one's I should pay attention to.
Currently have Monitor 9, CC-290, DSP-3400.
Thanks.

I hear you, just trying to avoid the whole speaker wire discussion.

I believe your only risk in having a better center channel is the sound not matching between your other speakers. So when a sound is made that pans across your speakers, the center might sound a bit different, even if that different is "better."

Maybe its time to 1) move. 2) Build an extension, 3) Buy a larger house, or contrary to common practice of most home theater enthusiasts install ceiling speakers for the surround channels.

Paradigm has a number of good to fine sounding in-wall units that would fit the bill nicely and unobtrusively unlike ANY of the ADP series. Which IMHO make the sound diffuse and cause images to float around.
And defeat the reason for multi- channel sound to begin with.

this is a very different view to what i have heard from most other persons. "float aorund"??? what do you mean by that???

You'll note that the ADP (and similar) designs have radiators pointing in opposite directions from each other. These signals are in different time and phase domains relative to each other and relative to the acoustic envirnoment they are attached as well what structures, objects, obstructions are in their respective radiating directions.

When compared to a direct radiator "point source " sonic radiation
is in one direction and time and phase are maintained. Thus the signal arrives is the perfect world arrives in sync and is specific. Unlike the Bi polar or ADP where the signal is already out of phase with its doppelganger possibly causing delayed signal to cancel out, of cause timing issues ergo, a phasey or diffuse sound. Understand that I am not a speaker designer and some of what I offer up is sit of the pants experiences.

My support of this argument is available for anyone to hear in the many upscale IMAX and traditional movie theaters which exist in the market. You will not see the use of ADP type speakers, but simple direct radiators pointing straight out 90* from the walls they are attached to. Sure enough you will find 6-10 units on each side of the theater and as many behind the Front screen to accommodate the multi channel sound tracks.

Think of the ADP design as a Play on the BOSE Direct radiator design speaker, 8 speakers in front firing and one on the rear. All producing the same signa at seemingly the same time, however no matter how good QC is in manufacturing the drivers, there will be variances among the production runs. agreed? Ergo, Time and Phase aberrations.

How many people do you know who own BOSE? Claim they are great sounding speakers? Used in professional setups?

I admit there is a place for ADP speakers. There cover a whole host of sins while at the same time create new ones. They keep the cost of additional speaker purchases down while offering sound fill-in to the rear of the theater. Unless you're wealthy, the number of consumer designed Home theaters that seat more than 8 people adequately is very limited indeed as the cost to build something larger goes up exponentially.

So much for my stream of consciousness.

Hey, what's up guys.

A few pages back (10 pages maybe?) I said I was planning on buying parts for a 2.1 system. I already have the DSP-3400, and I'm pretty set on getting the studio 20's as my mains, but because of some recent events (stuff selling on ebay) I have more cash than I initially planned, enough for the studio 60's actually.

Anyways, I haven't had the chance to A/B the two yet (plan on it next week sometime?), but I was wondering ya'lls opionions on the two speakers for 2.1? I heard the 60's were very nice for music because of the smaller drivers... I will be doing mostly music still, probably 60 music/20 games /20 movies.

Powering them won't be a problem as I already have purchased the Integra DTM-5.9 and two Emotiva UPA-1's(waiting for these to arrive).

Thanks

I'm using a pair of CS-50Rs as rear channels in my 7.1 setup. They're about 4 feet behind my main seating position (7.5' ceiling). They match well with my Atom fronts, CC-190 center and ADP-190 surrounds. As rear channels only, they work well for me but I wouldn't want to use them for a front sound stage.

Still in work... 7.1


L/R: Definitive BP-8's
Center: C5 WHAT AN AMAZING ADDITION!
Surround sides: SA-15R Ceilings
Surround backs: SA-15R-30 Ceilings
Sub: Velodyne SPL-1000 Series 1

I may replace the BP-8's with Paradigms or possibly B&W 805's that I currently own.

Panasonic 65" Plasma TH-65PZ850U
Pioneer Elite SC-05

Advice?

Mike

There are a number of misconceptions in your post, and I won't try to address them all. But I will point out that the arrays of many direct radiators you see at movie theaters all produce sound that arrives at your ear with different relative phase, and the net result is a diffuse surround sound field. The audio engineers that do the theatrical audio mixes expect that the surround channels will generate diffuse sound, and mix accordingly. Unless you are willing to mount 10+ direct radiators on each side of your home theater, the closest you are going to get to the sound engineer's intent is to use dipole surrounds.

Dipoles in a home theater environment are still able to be localized to a region of the room, just not as precisely as a direct radiator. I use four Signature ADPv1s as my surrounds, and I can tell exactly which speaker is generating sound in a 7.1 mix, I just couldn't tell you that it's 8 feet from the side wall and 7 feet up. You could use dipoles as your mains in a stereo setup and music would sound perfectly natural, just with a 'wider sound stage' than you are used to from direct radiators. The stereo separation effect remains intact.

Unless you listen in an anechoic chamber, ALL speakers (dipole and direct) excite both the direct and reverberant field. Dipoles just proportionally excite more of the reverberant field. They aren't anything like a subwoofer where you are unable to locate the source, however.

EDIT-The above is purely from a home theater perspective. Multi-channel music is more complicated. Some concert DVDs, for instance, will put crowd/ambient noise in the surround channels, and dipoles are AWESOME for making you feel like you are sitting in the audience at the concert. Even for multi-channel studio discs (like AIX Records' stellar offerings), dipoles can still make you feel like 'you are there', but this might be one application where 5-7 identical direct radiators more closely match the engineer's intent.

OK - looking for some opinions here (and I have the hard hat ready).

Current setup is Reference studio 20's for Front, Ref Studio CC for center, and Ref Studio ADP's for side surrounds. All are version 2.

I have an Onkyo 7.1 receiver (I think it's the 607? - can't remember off the top of my head). Home Theater Room is about 12' wide and 14.5' long. Have raised seating and wall treatments (built it using the "standard" methodology from the AVS Forum circa 2001-2003).

I watch blu-rays and do a lot of PS3 gaming through a PS3, as well as standard Verizon Fios HD viewing.

I would now like to add the rear speakers to take advantage of my 7.1 receiver.

Recognizing that the line of speakers I have are no longer made by paradigm, should I:

- Try to find some used v. 2 ADP's to match my sides? (these can be tough to find)

- Buy some used studio 20's and hang those as rears? (these are much easier to find. (Could also get used ver. 2 studio 40's or studio 80's and move the 20's to the rear)

- Buy some Monitor ADP-390's and put them up as rears?

Am not really worried about them visually matching current speakers as my current side ADP's are hidden in a column.

Was hoping not to spend more than $800.

Thanks for any thoughts.

Spike,

How about buying a new pair of Studio 20v5s for your fronts, and moving the old ones to the rear? That would give you the best stereo playback experience for your money, while keeping all of your surround speakers timbre-matched.

What about getting a pair of Signature S2's one generation back. There are a lot of dealers that are trying to sell their v2 demos to make room for the v3. I just got mine for a lot less then i would have bought the 60's for.

Good post!

Do any of you Paradigm owners have any experience with RBH? I am going back to bookshelf/monitor sized speakers in the front and have a very short list. Studio 20s or RBH 61SE/R. For those out there with Studio 20s, are you running a 590 or a 690? Is the 690 overkill for the 20s? I am currently running a Bigfoot for a center if that's a clue. I have had the Studios before, version 3 if I remember correctly, they are probably my favorite bookshelf/monitor. Thought about doing Dynaudio up front as well, maybe a Focus 140, but leaning more towards the Studios or RBH....All thoughts would be much appreciated and thanks for your time.

No, they make good quality for the dollar stuff, more than you need to pay but not ridiculously so. Most of my interconnects are Blue Jeans, but I'd never buy speaker wire over the internet when I can go five minutes from my house and buy the same thing for cheaper.

ravingndrooling;

I would take a good look at the Paradigm Sig S2's here....

Your looking at 2 different price ranges here... $1K and $2k for the RBH's
I think you would do better comparing the Sig S2's (I have) and the RBH's (never heard).

The Sigs with the Be tweeter are very hard to beat IMO... and are far more efficient (92db) to drive then the RBH's (87db)..... and the cabinet on the Sig S2's are far nicer then the RBH's, Honestly I'm not even sure how Audioholics rates these speakers so high looking at the 2 in comparison...

Just one mans opinion.... take it for what its worth...

Here's an amazing deal on the S2's on audiogon...
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....re-S2v2-mapl-e

There are others on there, new in box if you search Audiogon for "Paradigm" I have gotten some great deals on many speakers there...

Spike I sent you a PM.

Here's an amazing deal on the S2's on audiogon...
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....re-S2v2-mapl-e

There are others on there, new in box if you search Audiogon for "Paradigm" I have gotten some great deals on many speakers there... [/quote]

Warp what do you think of these as far as price http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....oni&1272147118
Thinking of some thing like these in my music room
Thanks.

I don't want to venture too far off topic, and I don't know about you, but I found it a bit disconcerting when they started to sell products they've been, and are, reviewing. I think they've soiled their credibility a bit.

Is it me or did they pull all their Paradigm products off the internet???

I like the explanation here and have a question related to one I posted earlier, but with more detail....

I do not have a perfect listening room. I am restricted in speaker placement, and the so called side surrounds are back behind the listening area (two corners). With an open side, I do not have any way to put two surrounds in the same general position, so I dropped them both back. Levels are calibrated and balanced.

As a wrinkle, I have tried a couple of different "surrounds" in these positions. I have a set of old Titans that worked fine, but I have also tried some Bose 301's in the same position. The 301's have a dual rear port and reflecting tweeter. I do not really have a preference, except the 301's sound a bit brighter during some surround events. Maybe I cannot hear the spatial differences in this position --

My prior question asked if a Studio 10 would be a good surround with Studio 60's. The explanation above made me wonder if a dipole speaker like an ADP (or a reflecting speaker like the Bose 301!) might actually provide better potential sound than a direct front radiating speaker.

I am learning there are no perfect rooms in my life.

Yah, I've been watching Audiogon and have seen the Sigs. I would prefer to buy my speakers new from an authorized dealer....maybe. There is a gent on this board that contacted me who is a 'digm dealer, sounds like a good guy. I have also found a couple of RBH dealers that are willing to deal with me, so the 20s and 61se/rs become do-able. I wouldn't mind Sigs, but then I will be spending a lot more for the center and the surrounds. Not a bad thing, but in todays world I need to be a little bit more price conscience. So, what do you think would be better, last version of Sigs or newest version of Studios?? I'm only interested in the 20s and S2s though.

Sure looks like it. I doubt they sold all the speakers they were selling last week. I'd speculate they weren't procuring their Paradigms from out-of-business dealers, but from an authorized dealer trying to make a few bucks by selling in quantity to a place like this and he probably got caught.

Do an AVS search on audiophileliquidators before you purchase. Not speaking from personal experience but the reviews from actual customers are less then glowing...just saying.

If you only care about the sound in a particular seating position, I think using Studio 10s for surrounds would be great. ADPs cost a lot more than direct radiators (due to more drivers), and the aural difference isn't huge. My home theater is a 900 sf great room with a bar, ping pong table, dartboard, big sectional, etc, so I figured dipoles would be the best way to uniformly fill the room with sound all over.

If you only care about the sound at a particular listening position, I don't think dipoles are worth the extra cost.

General Audio in Calgary now has the S8, C5, and SUB 25 in the cherry finish on display. I watched a scene from Batman The Dark Knight at full volume and holy crap! The front channel speakers were incredibly loud and clear. I could see the subwoofer visibly shaking the empty chair next to me. Honestly, I have never heard sound that good before. This is a whole level of performance I have never experienced. I'm really looking forward to getting mine next week.

Sounds Of Music has stopped carrying Paradigm and has a few demo models on clearance. This leaves General Audio as the only Paradigm Reference dealer in Southern Alberta.

I'm trying to purchase a set of feet for my C5 Center Channel. I called our local dealer, left a message but they don't respond. Is there another way to buy them?

Mike

what were they powering the system with? did they use separates? or a receiver??

Sorry, I didn't pay attention to that. I was there on my lunch hour to buy some speakers so I didn't have time to linger. They didn't bother telling me and I didn't bother asking.