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Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 52

post #1531 of 28212
7/1/06 at 9:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by screxer View Post

I haven't heard the Monitor 3, but I do have the MiniMonitor and Studio 20. I used MiniMonitor's as my mains for about a month. They were a BIG upgrade from my Polk's. The bass seemed more controlled and overall it was a more "spacious" sound. The MiniMonitor seemed to throw a big soundstage and imaging was outstanding. About a month into listenting to them, I had a chance to check out some Studio 20's. Where the MiniMonitor was a night and day difference compared to my Polk's, the Studio 20 was a night and day difference over my MiniMonitors. The Studio 20 does everything the MiniMonitor does....but better. It is an extremely neutral speaker that offers tight, controlled bass down into the 50hz range. The highs are very crisp and clear, but not to the point that it become annoying. The soundstage is enormous. Imaging is also spectacular. I'll often use Jack Johnson as a demo for friends that want to hear the setup. I turn it on without telling them I'm just running the Studio 20's and the sub. With the superb imaging, Jack Johnson's voice is perfectly centered in the room while instruments are to either side. The imaging is so good and the soundstage so large that people often aren't initially blown away because they believe that the center channel and side surrounds are being utilized. When I inform them that it is just the Studio 20's and the sub, their jaws drop and want to hear it again....basically, I really like the MiniMonitors. It is one of the best speaker purchases I've made....but I LOVE my Studio 20's for doing everything the MiniMonitor does, but better.

Ditto. The Studio 20s are amazing! Well worth every penny and then some.

Visually inspect the floor models. If they look like they are a little dinged up, they may not have been cared for properly when played either. Although it is hard to tell if they have been overdriven, if they look clean and the dealer shows them respect while give you a demo, they are probably well taken care of. At only two hundred below the Minis, that is a great deal. You may proceed with caution since that is such a good deal, but if they check out well and look and sound good, jump all over it. That is a hot price.

Although the SA-10R would be a better suited speaker for a surround with the Studio 20s, the AMS-100s are just fine.

-K
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post #1532 of 28212
7/1/06 at 9:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KERMIE View Post

Paradigm is one possible choice on my mind as well as Martin Logan and B&K.

I was looking at the Signature Series today but wanted to get some advice from individuals that have Paradigm and have used other brands as well.

I will have a 14' x 18' dedicated HT- looking for 7.1 set up.

Questions:

1. Has anyone had both ML and Paradigm in the past?
2. Is there a Big difference between the Paradigm Signature series and the Reference series as far as sound?

3. Is dipole the way to go with Paradigm for Surrounds? (or is that a personal preference by the listener to HT)

I am battling the same confusion with the Audio Equipment, but that is a whole other topic. (AVR vs Seperates)..

Thank you for some input.

1. Yes, actually I used to own some medium sized floorstanding ML's (Aerius I think) for a few months about a year and a half ago, and now I own Paradigm S4s, C3, and ADPs. Long story short, I would not reccommend ML speakers for home theater, or rock music. That thin electrostatic film is great for small-ensemble jazz and vocal pieces, but they just don't have the dynamic capability for rock and action films. The sound quickly becomes compressed, strained and congested when pushed. I bought them before I knew this. I should clarify one thing though, and that is you can get decent dynamic capability from the really big ML models. But they cost considerably more than any of the Signature speakers. You also have to have ample room behind the ML's for them to work properly (because they are dipolar and emit sound out of the back as well as the front). Probably 3-4 feet I would say. One last thing, the ML sound is VERY directional and you will tend to notice that stereo imaging goes away when you move even just a few degrees off of the sweet spot AND you lose most high frequency response if standing above the top of the electrostatic panel.

2. IMO, no. The Sigs have maybe 10-15% better sound quality than the Studios. You are paying mainly for the gorgeous cabinets in the Signature line.

3. This is a matter of preference and intended use. The simple answer is that most would say that the ADPs are better suited for movies and the direct radiating (normal) speakers are better for surround music. The dipoles produce an enveloping diffuse sound, where the direct radiators are well, more direct.

4. AVR vs Separates - Some will argue this, but these days, technology has progressed to the point that you can get 90% of the sound quality from a high-end AVR than you would from separates. Check out Rotel, Denon, Pioneer and Marantz.

Cheers,

- Tim
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post #1533 of 28212
7/2/06 at 12:21am
Wow Tim

Thank you for the help. I listened to the Sig. Series again today and they are great. Although the place I was at had a ton of power amps running which I will not be able to do.

I don't think that I would notice the difference between the Sig. vs studios just because I have been away from it for so long. Heck, all the systems today sound great from 12-13 years ago.

I think I agree on the ML for HT. However, I do own the Grotto sub I bought from a friend.

How would the ML Grotto match up with the Paridigm Studio line??

Thank you,

K
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post #1534 of 28212
7/2/06 at 12:27am
My thoughts are to go with:

Studio 40 for F/L
ML Grotto Sub
CC-470 (or) CC-570 for Center (which would match the Studio 40's better????)

Have to decide on dipole or DR for Sides and Rears. (Studio 20's or ADP-470)

Thank you again for any assistance.

K
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post #1535 of 28212
7/2/06 at 2:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

You know, I've never understood the belief that full-range floorstanders are better for two channel music than a sub / sat system and that subs are just meant for movies. There is plenty of music in any given movie, so you are going to need "musical" speakers either way. Sound is sound and it doesn't matter if its a CD or a DVD, you still want full range, flat frequency response and low distortion. As long as you get the integration right bewtween the satillites and the sub, a sub / sat combo will handily beat what most people consider a pair of full range speakers for movies and music. The sub /sat will have greater extension too (a pair of 100's really only go down to a solid 40 Hz). If the arguement is that full range speakers sound better integrated than a sub / sat, then I say, get back to work, you aren't done with the set-up.

I've never understood it either - did someone say that? I'm talking about 60s vs 100s directly, not 60s & sub vs 100s. In other words, if you're not going to be using a sub, then the 100s would probably be a better choice, especially for music (due to music not typically going as low). However, in Doug's situation, I'd recommend 60s.
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post #1536 of 28212
7/2/06 at 8:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KERMIE View Post

My thoughts are to go with:

CC-470 (or) CC-570 for Center (which would match the Studio 40's better????)

K

CC-570 all the way.

-K
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post #1537 of 28212
7/2/06 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribbeansun View Post

Well, every time I think I've made up my mind on a system something changes and I seem to have to go back to square one. It's been a long time since I purchased any equipment so I'm totally out of step with what's available despite spending much of the last 2 months reading this forum for 2 hours a day.

What I do know - I'm having a house built and have installed a Russound CAV66 and have used mostly Paradigm AMS100's in-ceiling for background music. Due to space and WAF I have AMS100's as sound speakers for a 5.1 system. Currently trying to maximize the value of speakers across the front and this where I'm getting lost.

Had originally thought about using Cinema speakers but wife suddenly decided she just didn't like the look of those long skinny speakers down the sides - oh, and would I mind having a custom wall unit built? Of course not dear but you do realize that I'll have to have bookshelf speakers not Cinema speakers - surprisingly she said "okay" just as long as they are black (hmmm, okay, lesson learned). So moving up the food chain I then looked at the Atoms and quickly moved to the Titans. Did some in store auditioning and listened to Mini-monitors - very nice indeed. Having now read more here I started debating Mini-monitors vs. monitor 3's. I go into the store yesterday to audition those and the have Studio 20's on sale (floor models for $200 more than the Mini-monitors) - grrrr. Ran out of time so I have to go back to audition them further. Oh, and they had a very nice price on some Focus speakers as well.

Couple questions:

- would appreciate hearing thoughts about the Mini-monitors v Monitor 3's v Studio 20's (yes, I know I have to listen for myself but there's definitely some comfort in hearing other more experienced folks input);

- any particular concerns about floor models that I should be aware of?

- any concerns about pairing the above with the AMS100 surrounds?

Thanks in advance!

I haven't heard the Monitor 3's nor the Studio 20's. The Mini-Monitors (I listened to the v.3 not the newer v.4) were excellent for their price range. They are a pretty good step up from the Atoms that I currently use as my mains as well as the Titans. My Paradigm dealer did me the "favor" of letting me listen to the Signature Series S2 a while back when I wanted to get a listen to the new v.4 Monitor series. The S2's really blew me away and I practically spent my whole lunch hour at the dealer listening. You might want to give a listen to the S2 too, but of course the price is much more. If you go with the studio 20 or even higher, just keep in mind that you want matching center for the front so that it will be more money out the door as well.
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post #1538 of 28212
7/2/06 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KERMIE View Post

My thoughts are to go with:

Studio 40 for F/L
ML Grotto Sub
CC-470 (or) CC-570 for Center (which would match the Studio 40's better????)

Have to decide on dipole or DR for Sides and Rears. (Studio 20's or ADP-470)

Thank you again for any assistance.

K

CC570 for a center
ADP470 for rears for HT
I would use studio 20s for HD Audio
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post #1539 of 28212
7/3/06 at 12:11pm
Has anyone here ever had the opportunity to do a direct comparison of paradigm studios to some of the id brands. The ones I'm thinking of are ascend, rockets, and axiom. I have been lusting after the studio 60's and the cc-470 for a little while. Every time I get ready to buy, some detail delays it. I'm not looking for better or worse because I know that is subjective. But with any of the above brands, do any of them sound similar?
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post #1540 of 28212
7/3/06 at 10:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj View Post

I've never understood it either - did someone say that? I'm talking about 60s vs 100s directly, not 60s & sub vs 100s. In other words, if you're not going to be using a sub, then the 100s would probably be a better choice, especially for music (due to music not typically going as low). However, in Doug's situation, I'd recommend 60s.

Sorry Tim, thought you were implying that 100's would be better than 60's + sub for music. I see we are on the same page.

Cheers.
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post #1541 of 28212
7/3/06 at 10:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KERMIE View Post

My thoughts are to go with:

Studio 40 for F/L
ML Grotto Sub
CC-470 (or) CC-570 for Center (which would match the Studio 40's better????)

Have to decide on dipole or DR for Sides and Rears. (Studio 20's or ADP-470)

Thank you again for any assistance.

K

The Grotto is supposed to be a very good sub. I'm sure that it will sound great with the Paradigms.

Definitely go for the 570 for the center. It is technically a much better speaker. You should be very happy with your proposed set-up.
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post #1542 of 28212
7/4/06 at 9:26am
Thanks, I hope so.

Lastly, I am looking at doing columns for the surround speakers. Just wondering on the Studio 20's being that they are 13" deep how much space should I have behind the speaker. I plan on stuffing the column and around the speaker with insulation. It seems that I will have a fairly deep column.

thanks
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post #1543 of 28212
7/4/06 at 9:31am
Denon 3801
Paradigm Studio 40's Front
Paradigm 470 Center
Paradigm Studio 20's Rear
Paradigm UltraCube10 Subwoofer

and they sound great!
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post #1544 of 28212
7/4/06 at 4:36pm
Quote:


Sorry Tim, thought you were implying that 100's would be better than 60's + sub for music

Umm..

He was.. Wasn't he?

100's for music, 60's for HT..
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post #1545 of 28212
7/4/06 at 5:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by doug zdanivsky View Post

Umm..

He was.. Wasn't he?

100's for music, 60's for HT..

100's by themselve or with Sub....60's must have a sub

AM
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post #1546 of 28212
7/4/06 at 5:20pm
Maranyz SR8500
Paradigm Studio 60v3 Front
Paradigm 570v3 Center
Paradigm 20v3 Rear
SVS 20-39 Plus Sub
I love this setup.
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post #1547 of 28212
7/4/06 at 5:34pm
To add to the confusion. I was at my friends house today and he has a nice set up. but he has

Dipoles on the sides and Direct Rad. Speakers for his rear, shooting down from the top of the back wall pointed at the listening position.

Sounded Great! The dipoles on the side kept the effects from being so noticeable but you could really get the rear effects.

I was going to have the reverse done (Direct on sides, Dipole in rear)

I know it is a personal preference but what experience have you all had with this.

7.1 system BTW.

Thanks
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post #1548 of 28212
7/4/06 at 5:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KERMIE View Post

To add to the confusion. I was at my friends house today and he has a nice set up. but he has

Dipoles on the sides and Direct Rad. Speakers for his rear, shooting down from the top of the back wall pointed at the listening position.

Sounded Great! The dipoles on the side kept the effects from being so noticeable but you could really get the rear effects.

I was going to have the reverse done (Direct on sides, Dipole in rear)

I know it is a personal preference but what experience have you all had with this.

7.1 system BTW.

Lastly, I am looking at doing columns for the surround speakers. Just wondering on the Studio 20's being that they are 13" deep how much space should I have behind the speaker. I plan on stuffing the column and around the speaker with insulation. It seems that I will have a fairly deep column.


Thanks

Dipoles will work in the back, but the are MEANT to be place to the sides, slightly behind the main listening seat.

The 20's need probably 1-2 feet of space behind them or the could sound a bit bloated in the upper bass. I would experiment by placing them on stands close to the walls beofr you commit to your columns idea.
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post #1549 of 28212
7/4/06 at 5:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KERMIE View Post

To add to the confusion. I was at my friends house today and he has a nice set up. but he has

Dipoles on the sides and Direct Rad. Speakers for his rear, shooting down from the top of the back wall pointed at the listening position.

Sounded Great! The dipoles on the side kept the effects from being so noticeable but you could really get the rear effects.

I was going to have the reverse done (Direct on sides, Dipole in rear)

I know it is a personal preference but what experience have you all had with this.

7.1 system BTW.

Thanks

Happy 4th everyone!

I helped a buddy of mine with his HT install. He had a set of directs and a set of dipoles. After allot of listening and input from about 10 people he decided on dipole surrounds and direct rears mounted about 3 feet apart. Most everyone, including myself, thought this setup sounded best.
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post #1550 of 28212
7/5/06 at 5:00am
As a follow up to an earlier post - I bought the Studio 20's yesterday after auditioning the Mini-monitors and Monitor 3's. The pricing was too good to ignore. I will add a CC470, they had a CC570 at virtually the same price but because it is going into a wall unit the rear port concerned me. A couple more questions if people don't mind:

- for surrounds I have AMS250's (not the 100's as previously mentioned - mistake on invoice) but could put the SA25's in for an additional $250. Is it really worth the extra $$?

- any thoughts on adding a sub that would compliment this system? The room is 19x16 with a vaulted ceiling up to 20' and the room is open on one end to the kitchen which is 19x18. I don't want a sub that overpowers the rest of the system but rather one that will integrate well. When I listen to music I definitely not one to turn up the bass, if anything I prefer more trebel but with the 20's they do need something to fill in the bottom end.

Thanks to all that responded previously.

Cheers!
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post #1551 of 28212
7/5/06 at 5:58am
Quote:


60's must have a sub

Got one.. (PW-2200)

Quote:


any thoughts on adding a sub that would compliment this system?

DEFINATELY get a sub..

The sub will not overpower the rest of the system as long as you don't have your sub cut-off frequency set too high..
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post #1552 of 28212
7/5/06 at 6:44am
Thanks Guys, I appreciate the help.

I think I am going to end up with the ADP 470's for my surrounds on the sides for sure. Just makes sense in my columns. (The columns will be somewhat of a Hexagon shape to it so it will be open on the sides of the dipole).

They will be at 5.5 feet off the ground.

If I do columns in the rear I will go with ADP 470's as well, if not I am still debating on the 20's.

Is it recomended that the 470 be parallel or can/should angle down to the listening area?

thanks
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post #1553 of 28212
7/5/06 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by am4966 View Post

100's by themselve or with Sub....60's must have a sub

AM

IMO, a sub should be included in a system even with the 100s. A must if they're used at all for HT purposes.
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post #1554 of 28212
7/5/06 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj View Post

IMO, a sub should be included in a system even with the 100s. A must if they're used at all for HT purposes.


I totally AGREE! But you could get by without a sub with the 100's....until you could afford to get one.


Also on a side note.....I am wanting to get a AMP to go with my Yammy 2600, since down the road I would like to buy a Pre/Pro once all of the HDMI issues have been decided, inreguards to 1080p, HD DD and HD DTS. I'm looking in the 1000-2000.00 price range. It can be 5 channels since thats all I can run , but 7 channel will also be considerd(Since I'm going to eventually setup a second zone on my Deck. I am going to have 100's, CC 570 and ADP 470's. Thanks for any imput you may have.


AM
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post #1555 of 28212
7/5/06 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by am4966 View Post

But you could get by without a sub with the 100's....until you could afford to get one.

How you can afford 100s and not a sub, I don't know... unless you're going to start with a lot of stereo music listening. Otherwise, if cost is the main factor, just get the 60s and a sub first, and upgrade to 100s later. (Note that I'm not directing this at you per se, but just your comment)

For a good 5 or 7 channel amp for the price, look at the Outlaw 7000 series.
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post #1556 of 28212
7/5/06 at 2:40pm
Quote:


But you could get by without a sub with the 100's....until you could afford to get one.

If you weren't going to be doing any HT, just sterio music listening, this would be true, I guess (though I know I love the extra punch my sub gives to most music tracks)..

If you're going to do HT, though, a sub is essential..

2 of 'em...

I'm getting an Arcam AVR300 for my reciever, which is in your price range..

But if I was in the States, I would definately get Outlaw seperates..
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post #1557 of 28212
7/5/06 at 4:33pm
Want to get some opinions

I can buy the following all new. Just want to see if this is a good deal.

2 -Studio 40's
1- CC-570
4- ADP-470's

Total Cost

from dealer

I am a newbie on this and don't want to get screwed over, atleast not too bad...lol

Thank you,
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post #1558 of 28212
7/5/06 at 5:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KERMIE View Post

Want to get some opinions

I can buy the following all new. Just want to see if this is a good deal.

2 -Studio 40's
1- CC-570
4- ADP-470's

Total Cost

$3825.00 from dealer

I am a newbie on this and don't want to get screwed over, atleast not too bad...lol

Thank you,

You might want to edit your price since your not allowed to post actual dollars here. But I dont think thats a good deal since I got 100's with the above mention really, really close to that price...and got even a better deal when I went to Canada due to the exchange rate.

Also Tim have you ever heard of a BUDGET? Since someone may have alloted amount $$$$ and they might meet that without the subwoofer.

AM
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post #1559 of 28212
7/5/06 at 5:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by am4966 View Post

Also Tim have you ever heard of a BUDGET? Since someone may have alloted amount $$$$ and they might meet that without the subwoofer.
AM

I'm sure he has, but the point I believe he was making is that "if" one is setting up a home theater and they are doing it with out a sub one may want to rethink their budget process.
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post #1560 of 28212
7/5/06 at 5:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnGZ28 View Post

I'm sure he has, but the point I believe he was making is that "if" one is setting up a home theater and they are doing it with out a sub one may want to rethink their budget process.


WHY? If your wanting to get model A and know that you wont be happy with model B, but model B comes with a Sub. They will buy Model A and get the sub down the road.

Look at it like this, some people will get a AMP then buy a Pre/Pro down the road due to cost. Your way of thinking is get a lesser product so that you can buy both the AMP and Pre/Pro at the same time.

AM
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