Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 55

Not a strange question at all. Each driver (i.e. a given model) has different frequency response characteristics. They are usually measured 1m away, with 1W of power (shown as 1W/1m). Obviously a 15" subwoofer will be have a high response in the double-digits, whereas it will be horrible at 5KHz. That is where the crossovers come in. Each driver "rolls off" toward the edges of the range it can cover. It should ideally be flat across its primary range, and evenly taper off at some steady rate (not necessarily linear).

The driver that will cover an adjacent range (e.g. a tweeter) should have a similar (but opposite) rolloff. Where they intersect is typically (though not always) used as the crossover frequency. The crossover limits what audio gets sent (based on frequency) to each driver, but instead of cutting it off at an exact frequency, it rolls off as well (similar to the frequency response (FR) of the driver). Even though there's a combined "dip" where the two drivers crossover (they're both sloping down, but opposite directions), the fact that both of them are reproducing the sound at the crossover frequency gives it an increase in SPL/volume, which brings the FR up overall, creating a flatter response.

Note that a flat FR is not the end all of a quality speaker. You can have a completely flat FR from 20Hz-20KHz for two different speakers and they can sound completely different. In other words, have different characteristics, such as "tinny", "harsh", "smooth", etc.. The FR just measures the loudness at a given frequency (or range of freqs).

I hope that helps, and doesn't confuse you more...

Need some opinions:

Father-in-law was looking for a budget system for new construction (maybe $25 - $50 per speaker ) but got that pushed up significantly. I wired for 7.1, but was forced to use ceiling mounts for all surrounds. I was considering getting the CS-60R-SM with dual drivers offset 60 degrees and firing the surrounds front and back (like a poor man's dipole).

2 questions:

1) Would you use the standard CS-60R instead?

2) If I use the "SM" and wire for a single channel on each speaker (dropping it to 4 ohm) - can I still get away with an off-the-shelf budget Pioneer 7.1 receiver having 4-4ohm surrounds and 3-8 ohm speakers LCR....or will it have a problem driving that type of setup?

Hi Tim. I have read many of your posts and I'm impressed with your willingness to help so many of us. I didn't get the time to take pictures last night, so I'm going to post them this weekend. It just amazes me how much those room treatments helped. It took me quite some time to get my wife to go along with it. Now I find that I can't wait to go home each day to just listen! Keep up the good work Tim.

Thanks miltimj
My reason for asking was I am a bit dissipointed with the Lack Of Lows form my 40's
I was looking @ the specs & thought I should get Low Frequency
Extension @ 36 HZ
But I should be looking at the Frequency Response On-Axis (0°) ±2 dB from 62 Hz - 22 kHz
Off-Axis (30°) ±2 dB from 62 Hz - 20 kHz
And the 40's start to roll off @ 62
I was comparing them to a pair of SA 35s But they go down lower 46Hz
On-Axis (0°) ±2dB from 46Hz - 22kHz
Off-Axis (30°) ±2dB from 46Hz - 20kHz

I'm not sure about your first question as I don't use wall mounts, but for your second question, the answer is that it depends on the exact reciever. Most likely, however, it can only handle 8 ohms, possibly 6. The fact that the LCRs are only 8, and surround channels typically have much less demand on them, it may work to use them in a 4 ohm setup. If you can find an impedance response curve, it may help your decision. By that, I mean that the 4 ohm spec is likely the low end, and it may exhibit 6-8+ ohm impedance at 80% of frequencies.

If your father-in-law is not going to be listening at high levels, it may work out fine. I'd recommend finding a receiver with pre-outs for future flexibility in adding an external amp, which typically can handle 4 ohms without a problem, or even lower.

I wouldn't expect a huge low end response from speakers simply because they say they go down to 62Hz. Those same drivers are likely trying to reproduce 3,000 Hz at the same time they're trying to reproduce 50Hz. You're not going to get a very nice response overall with that situation. It's also why it's often recommended (that I've seen) to crossover your drivers/speakers at least one octave from its Fs (62Hz on axis for you). An octave is a 1/2 or double of the frequency. That's also a minimum. So it would be recommended to crossover at about 120Hz. Again, that's ideal, and we all need to make compromises. All that matters in the end is what sounds best to you.

Just don't expect big bass response with 40s and no sub. There's not enough cabinet volume for it, and the drivers can't effortlessly handle that large of a range of frequencies (about 6 octaves).

Wow Crossover point @ 120 not even the norm of 80

80 is just what THX happens to recommend as a guideline, but it's obviously completely dependent on your speakers and room. Just as the crossover recommendation of an octave difference is a guideline. By the way, I'm not necessarily recommending you set the crossover at 120Hz; it's just for the sake of argument/example, why the 40s seem like they go low based on their specs, but in reality shouldn't be used near that low.

I do not understand the
Low Frequency
Extension @ 36 HZ
is that how low they will go OR is it 63 Hz ?

Ah, I didn't notice the LFE @ 36Hz the first time. So yes, 80Hz should work fine it seems. My point was more that you shouldn't expect low bass extension to 36Hz, despite the specifications. In other words, the 40s can reproduce down to 36Hz, but practically speaking, it won't sound its best combined with its trying to reproduce upper bass frequencies also. That goes for any mains... it's only one of many factors to compare the LFE of two mains. But the bottom line is that if you find the low end of a speaker like the 40 lacking, the simplest solution is crossing over with a speaker intended for that purpose.. a sub. I don't even expect much out of the LFE from my 100s.

i think the 36hz is at 10db down audible but no weight behind it.

According to the spec sheet the footnote next to 36Hz (DIN) says +/- 3dB.

read the footnote not sure i understand it says
[din 45 500 indicates -3db in a typical listening room]
cain't remember if it was soundstage or another
but it had a graph that showed it sloping off after 60 hz.

Is it within the rules to ask what a good discount would be when purchasing Paradigm speakers as long as I don't ask for actual pricing? If so, someone let me know what is realistic to get of MSRP.
THanks!

10% to 20% off MSRP usually.

20% would be great. I live in the outskirts of Dallas and there shows to be only one dealer in the whole area that is an authorized seller. ONE. As popular as Paradigm is i was certain there would be 2-3 choices. Does anyone know of any dealers that are mail order?

no mail order that i am aware of i do not believe co will allow it.
but i found if you buy a package(fr centr rr) they will usually work
you a good deal.

If you used the zip code thingie at the Paradigm site to find dealers be aware that it is highly inaccurate. I live near Boston and there are at least four Paradigm dealers in the area. The zip code dealer locator showed only one of them. Perhaps a email or phone call to Paradigm might find you some other dealers, or at least let you know that there is only that one.

Nick

You are correct about this....When I did my search I put my Zip Code and then I enterd zip codes for cities that where West and North of me, but were only about 20 minutes away from me....and I got different dealers

Are 40's designed for bi-wire from the ground up ?
I was looking into speaker cables & I was asking if Bi-wire was the way to go or single run with the speaker jumpers OR True bi-wire with 2 runs of cables was the best way to go & he asked
If your speaker are designed for bi-wire from the ground up they will perform better with bi-wire.
Our speaker cable is an internal bi-wire speaker cable. It is not necessary to have 2 separate runs, nor is it necessarily beneficial.
Using a jumper actually can be beneficial if the speakers are not designed from the ground up to be bi-wired.
In this case you always attach to the upper binding posts and jumper down to the lower ones.

Ant thoughts ?

bi-wiring is good business for wire companies sell more wire
run some 12awg and you have more wire than any speaker
can ask for. biamping sometimes will show an improvement.

What oztech said. Bi wiring makes no impact on sound nor does it improve the signal to the speaker. If you want to tinker with your system, think "room treatments".

Nick

IMHO Both bi wiring and bi amping have shown an improvement of detail in my systems. Bi amping has shown the greatest improvement sonically.

Speakers Paradigm 100 or Paradigm Signature via Arcam AVR300 or AVP700 with seperate amp.

RJ

This will depend on how much do you wanna to spend
a good 10 awg wire will work better than two 16 awg wires, which will work better than single 16 AWG wire
Longer run = bigger wire that you will have to run
Small wire creates heat and increases resistance on longer runs, which reduces sound quality. biwiring with smaller wire helps, but bigger wire is a better solution

Has anyone seen or heard about any new speaker releases on the forefront from Paradigm?

millenia 200 and the outdoor rock speaker

Signature C1

Back in post 1606, I provided a link to a picture of the C1 at CES. In the picture there is another speaker next to the C1. I was wondering if anyone knew what speaker that was. It looks like a Cinema type speaker but with Signature-looking drivers.

I'm ready to replace my HTM7
last time C3 or C5 for S4
I have allot of room for Centre Channel It will be located 10' in front of sofa
THX

i would have to demo them but like all sigs
how culd you go wrong think the c5 was
meant to go with the s8.