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Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 817

post #24481 of 28061
3/28/12 at 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

That's the plastic casing the drivers are housed in causing resonance, not necessarily distortion. I heard the same thing while auditioning music which promptly changed my decision and to look at using bookshelfs instead. ADP590s are severely overpriced for what you get.

Venomous, just out of curiosity what would you say about the ADP3? I have never heard any of the paradigm surrounds but when the time was right I was looking at using the 3s for my surround in the HT.
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post #24482 of 28061
3/28/12 at 12:37pm
Hello all.

I am considering a used pair of Studio 100 v3's for 2 channel music listening.

Musical tastes range from jam band to jazz to classical.

My concern is whether or not my Pioneer VSX-23 (7.1 a/v reciever with 100 WPC) will be enough to drive them. I don't anticipate running anymore than one set of patio speakers at them same time and would more than likely be just powering the Studio's when doing any critical listening.

Thanks for any and all help/sugestions.
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post #24483 of 28061
3/28/12 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwheelwright View Post

Venomous, just out of curiosity what would you say about the ADP3? I have never heard any of the paradigm surrounds but when the time was right I was looking at using the 3s for my surround in the HT.

I've never seen an adp3 in person which is a signature version. If its made of the same crappy plastic, I would use S1s instead. If you listen to any multi channel stereo or 5.1 music,those adp's will be a serious let down.

It reminds me of those shitistic Bose speakers. I love paradigm, but for what we pay for these speakers and the quality we get from them, I don't understand why adp's cabinets aren't made of wood. The insane price they expect us to pay for that crappy cabinet on the adp is what blows me away.
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post #24484 of 28061
3/28/12 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

I've never seen an adp3 in person which is a signature version. If its made of the same crappy plastic, I would use S1s instead. If you listen to any multi channel stereo or 5.1 music,those adp's will be a serious let down.

It reminds me of those shitistic Bose speakers. I love paradigm, but for what we pay for these speakers and the quality we get from them, I don't understand why adp's cabinets aren't made of wood. The insane price they expect us to pay for that crappy cabinet on the adp is what blows me away.

Thanks for the reply. I'm gonna have to see if I can get an answer as to whether they are made of wood or plastic. From the looks of it, it is wood and there is a weight difference between the ADP3 and ADP590. But I am just speculating based on pictures and weights. I do listen to music down there but to be honest, I mostly watch movies and some TVs. Ideally in my next house I would like to have a dedicated HT and a dedicated music room. Hey, I can dream right?
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post #24485 of 28061
3/28/12 at 2:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie ford View Post

Hello all.

I am considering a used pair of Studio 100 v3's for 2 channel music listening.

Musical tastes range from jam band to jazz to classical.

My concern is whether or not my Pioneer VSX-23 (7.1 a/v reciever with 100 WPC) will be enough to drive them. I don't anticipate running anymore than one set of patio speakers at them same time and would more than likely be just powering the Studio's when doing any critical listening.

Thanks for any and all help/sugestions.

Check the Amplifier FAQ sticky thread, there's a formula there for figuring out how much power you need.

Basically, things like listening distance, room size, speaker efficiency and listening habits all come into play in answering your question.

Generally though 100w/ch should be more than fine in most circumstances.
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post #24486 of 28061
3/28/12 at 2:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwheelwright View Post

Thanks for the reply. I'm gonna have to see if I can get an answer as to whether they are made of wood or plastic. From the looks of it, it is wood and there is a weight difference between the ADP3 and ADP590. But I am just speculating based on pictures and weights. I do listen to music down there but to be honest, I mostly watch movies and some TVs. Ideally in my next house I would like to have a dedicated HT and a dedicated music room. Hey, I can dream right?

I sure hope they are made of wood. I would love to know if they are myself.

I would love a dedicated ht room and a dedicated 2.0... This is why I play the lotto lol!
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post #24487 of 28061
3/28/12 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

Check the Amplifier FAQ sticky thread, there's a formula there for figuring out how much power you need.

Basically, things like listening distance, room size, speaker efficiency and listening habits all come into play in answering your question.

Generally though 100w/ch should be more than fine in most circumstances.

I'll have a look, I remember reading the thread some time back but now with some specifics it may be more relevent.

Thanks.
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post #24488 of 28061
3/28/12 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

If its made of the same crappy plastic, I would use S1s instead. If you listen to any multi channel stereo or 5.1 music,those adp's will be a serious let down.
.... I don't understand why adp's cabinets aren't made of wood. The insane price they expect us to pay for that crappy cabinet on the adp is what blows me away.

Well no doubt it's to cut costs, but because something is plastic doesn't automatically make it crap.

I'll go out on a limb and suggest that with the plastics of today, you might be able to create a better "acoustically" designed enclosure than with wood. Computer modelled to reduce resonance, maximize/enhance dispertion then injection moulded for a pretty consistent product.

You can make plastic to pretty much any density & rigidity now, so I wouldn't be surprised if a plastic cabinet could be made to perform like the S1's all-aluminum cabinet.
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post #24489 of 28061
3/28/12 at 4:08pm
I have 590's. They have plastic casing. But they are very heavy for their size and clearly solidly made. They are bipolar - so I'm not sure they are the best for multichannel music. I think bp design is mainly for surround effects.
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post #24490 of 28061
3/28/12 at 6:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamie ford View Post

Hello all.

I am considering a used pair of Studio 100 v3's for 2 channel music listening.

Musical tastes range from jam band to jazz to classical.

My concern is whether or not my Pioneer VSX-23 (7.1 a/v reciever with 100 WPC) will be enough to drive them. I don't anticipate running anymore than one set of patio speakers at them same time and would more than likely be just powering the Studio's when doing any critical listening.

Thanks for any and all help/sugestions.

No the pioneer doesn't have the jam. I have a mrx 700 and studio 60s and when I want to do 2 channel and turn it up the amp struggles to deliver

Just add a 2 channel power amp and you'll be fine
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post #24491 of 28061
3/28/12 at 7:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

Well no doubt it's to cut costs, but because something is plastic doesn't automatically make it crap.

I'll go out on a limb and suggest that with the plastics of today, you might be able to create a better "acoustically" designed enclosure than with wood. Computer modelled to reduce resonance, maximize/enhance dispertion then injection moulded for a pretty consistent product.

You can make plastic to pretty much any density & rigidity now, so I wouldn't be surprised if a plastic cabinet could be made to perform like the S1's all-aluminum cabinet.

I cant say i agree here, but i have to ask, have you heard the difference between a adp590 and a studio 10? Especially at the same power level? They resonate and distort whether they are playing surround or music at nominal listening levels. The 7 inch woofer is the cause of it.

How much are adp590s again? much are studio 10s? How does paradigm price the adp590 at $800 a pop? Paradigm is making a killing off the cost vs msrp on them.

The 10s are made from wood not plastic and easily outperform the plastic adp's. I know plastics quite well and the density of the plastic paradigm uses isn't exactly stellar. You can tune a plastic enclosure for removal internal resonance. What you can't do is remove distortion and outside flex from the drivers. Even plastic bracing has its limitations.

When I see plastic speakers with acoustic chambers, I automatically think Bose... And we all know how good those sound right?
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post #24492 of 28061
3/28/12 at 8:33pm
ADP's and direct firing speakers like the 10's fit in completely different room's.

Simple examples;

Big room where the distance between the back wall and side walls is somewhat equal to or greater than the viewing distance, you're better off with direct speakers.

Small room where the side walls and back wall are closer than the viewing distance, ADP's work better due to sonic reflection.

I have a small room and the reflection really works well, especially on my front highs, 9.2 setup. The sound in non directional and gives you the impression it's coming from a particular direction but not directly from the speaker.

Big rooms with ADP's create an echo effect that is not preferable, hence direct firing speakers yield much better sonic clarity at the listening position.

And yes, it works wonderfully for multichannel music in my small room.
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post #24493 of 28061
3/28/12 at 8:39pm
But I do agree, the ADP's are not as pretty as the 10's and 20's. I wish the ADP's came in matching colors.

In my small room, I had no choice. Direct firing speakers would have been hard to fit and would have created a very small optimal position.
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post #24494 of 28061
3/28/12 at 9:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post

Nice set up Tank. That's my dream set up. Any pics at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post

I have a few -- I'll try to post some in a bit.

Here are a few from early on that aren't a total mess. Don't have the TV setup in all of them. The other ADP is on the far side of the couch & Sub 1 is over near the far wall. Yes, I know my pictures are crooked.
LL
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LL
LL
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post #24495 of 28061
3/28/12 at 10:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianlsu View Post

ADP's and direct firing speakers like the 10's fit in completely different room's.

Simple examples;

Big room where the distance between the back wall and side walls is somewhat equal to or greater than the viewing distance, you're better off with direct speakers.

Small room where the side walls and back wall are closer than the viewing distance, ADP's work better due to sonic reflection.

I have a small room and the reflection really works well, especially on my front highs, 9.2 setup. The sound in non directional and gives you the impression it's coming from a particular direction but not directly from the speaker.

Big rooms with ADP's create an echo effect that is not preferable, hence direct firing speakers yield much better sonic clarity at the listening position.

And yes, it works wonderfully for multichannel music in my small room.

I understand their use in small room because of furniture that's butted up against walls and such. I think they could of used wood and met the same target weight is all.

Perhaps you do not listen at the same levels I do, but i can shake the **** out of the adp's and make them distort. Recently they have had some issues with the drivers being jacked up as well.
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post #24496 of 28061
3/28/12 at 10:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

I cant say i agree here, but i have to ask, have you heard the difference between a adp590 and a studio 10? Especially at the same power level? They resonate and distort whether they are playing surround or music at nominal listening levels. The 7 inch woofer is the cause of it.

How much are adp590s again? much are studio 10s? How does paradigm price the adp590 at $800 a pop? Paradigm is making a killing off the cost vs msrp on them.

The 10s are made from wood not plastic and easily outperform the plastic adp's. I know plastics quite well and the density of the plastic paradigm uses isn't exactly stellar. You can tune a plastic enclosure for removal internal resonance. What you can't do is remove distortion and outside flex from the drivers. Even plastic bracing has its limitations.

When I see plastic speakers with acoustic chambers, I automatically think Bose... And we all know how good those sound right?

Good question, how much is a pair of 10s?
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post #24497 of 28061
3/29/12 at 5:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post


I understand their use in small room because of furniture that's butted up against walls and such. I think they could of used wood and met the same target weight is all.

Perhaps you do not listen at the same levels I do, but i can shake the **** out of the adp's and make them distort. Recently they have had some issues with the drivers being jacked up as well.

I would contact Paradigm/retailer if you are having that big of problem with your adp. I listen fairly loudly, in a large room, and haven't experienced any of this. Have mine crossed at 80hz. I listen to surround music, and movies, and couldn't be happier. I think a vast improvement to the direct/adp setup I was using, now adp/adp

I don't know much about plastic, but I do know that slot of time/money/research goes in to each product digm makes, so I trust their judgement on plastic over wood.
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post #24498 of 28061
3/29/12 at 5:34am
What is this about wood? Do you thing 60's and 100's are made of wood? They typically use MDF and now use cheap vinyl veneer (unless you pay extra for the piano black) instead of wood veneer. I suspect the ADP's have similar construction underneath the plastic "veneer". The 590's are very heavy. Plastic isn't that heavy. Unless they just put a few bricks inside for effect, the construction is substantial.
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post #24499 of 28061
3/29/12 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

When I see plastic speakers with acoustic chambers, I automatically think Bose... And we all know how good those sound right?

Better than you'd think for small plastic cubes, and something you couldn't emulate with wood. They get a really bad rap here, and it's mostly value for dollar where Bose craps the bed, but I've had them in my home and their actual performance isn't massively worse or better than most sub-sat systems I've heard.
You can make speaker cabinets out of virtually anything, or nothing, as in open baffle speakers. All I'm saying is the cabinet material can be engineered to taste, and that plastic is not an automatic indicator of lack of quality.
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post #24500 of 28061
3/29/12 at 8:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

You can tune a plastic enclosure for removal internal resonance. What you can't do is remove distortion and outside flex from the drivers. Even plastic bracing has its limitations.

Right, so the drivers are the problem then not the plastic cabinet?

I haven't heard the ADP590, but that's not relevant to my point. I wasn't saying it would be better than the S1's or Studio 10's...
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post #24501 of 28061
3/29/12 at 8:35am
The studio 100s, 60s, 20s and 10's are mdf with a real wood veneer and not a vinyl veneer
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post #24502 of 28061
3/29/12 at 8:44am
I believe the studio's have 7 coats of lacquer and hand sanded 6 times between coats. The rosenuts have a smooth finish and the plain black has a grainy look and feel to them. A vinyl wrap would not produce this effect. Take a micro cloth and it will glide over the rosenut but will catch on the standard black.
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post #24503 of 28061
3/29/12 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iccy View Post

Good question, how much is a pair of 10s?

Msrp went up a little bit, but they used to be $399 each, but I was able to get my pair for 700 jalapeños, you get a pair of 10s for the price of one adp590
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post #24504 of 28061
3/29/12 at 12:09pm
Just ran PBK on my Sub 25 (along with ARC on my new MRX700)......WOW. Just WOW.

Can I say WOW again?

I only had a chance to demo a few scenes of Tron Legacy before going into work, but it was an experience that bordered on religious in it's own audio meaning. I don't even know how to put into words the new sensation (and new it was, never have I felt the air being energized like this in my room before) that was experienced during "The Grid" scene. I am still somewhat speechless while I am sitting at work typing this.

Definitely going to go home and hook this thing up to it's own dedicated 110v/15amp outlet so it doesn't have to share power with my receiver and projector.
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post #24505 of 28061
3/29/12 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

Just ran PBK on my Sub 25 (along with ARC on my new MRX700)......WOW. Just WOW.

Can I say WOW again?

I only had a chance to demo a few scenes of Tron Legacy before going into work, but it was an experience that bordered on religious in it's own audio meaning. I don't even know how to put into words the new sensation (and new it was, never have I felt the air being energized like this in my room before) that was experienced during "The Grid" scene. I am still somewhat speechless while I am sitting at work typing this.

Definitely going to go home and hook this thing up to it's own dedicated 110v/15amp outlet so it doesn't have to share power with my receiver and projector.

BCJ are you done upgrading for a while. Just go home an enjoy
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post #24506 of 28061
3/29/12 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pappaduke View Post

BCJ are you done upgrading for a while. Just go home an enjoy

lol, for the price I got this Sub 25 for I couldn't help but upgrade. Once I sell my Integra DTR-70.3 (which is currently listed on the classifieds) I will have only paid $300-400 out of pocket for this *upgrade*

Not bad if I say so myself. But yes, I am enjoying (well, will be once I am off work).
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post #24507 of 28061
3/29/12 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post


Definitely going to go home and hook this thing up to it's own dedicated 110v/15amp outlet so it doesn't have to share power with my receiver and projector.

This is something I need to do but don't have available. Well, that ore a 240v. But before all of that, I need to upgrade my box and get a new line from the street.
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post #24508 of 28061
3/29/12 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post


lol, for the price I got this Sub 25 for I couldn't help but upgrade. Once I sell my Integra DTR-70.3 (which is currently listed on the classifieds) I will have only paid $300-400 out of pocket for this *upgrade*

Not bad if I say so myself. But yes, I am enjoying (well, will be once I am off work).

In your opinion does PBK make a big difference with any sub or just the higher end subs? I don't know much about this subject.
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post #24509 of 28061
3/29/12 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pappaduke View Post

In your opinion does PBK make a big difference with any sub or just the higher end subs? I don't know much about this subject.

Even on my DSP and Monitor SUB's of past, it made a pretty significant difference on it's own: coupled with something like ARC or Audyssey, it's even that much better of an end result
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post #24510 of 28061
3/29/12 at 2:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwheelwright View Post

This is something I need to do but don't have available. Well, that ore a 240v. But before all of that, I need to upgrade my box and get a new line from the street.

I was actually just told otherwise that hooking the subwoofer up to it's own 110v circuit will not make a difference, plus leaving it plugged into the same circuit as my components will help eliminate potential ground loop problems.

FYI.
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