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Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 830

post #24871 of 28092
5/15/12 at 5:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryder125 View Post

hey how do you think this set up would do for a home theatre?

Front speakers - Studio 10's
Center Channel - Studio CC 590
Back speakers - (2)ADP -490 V.5

it'll cost about $3500. Anyone have this set up or heard it? how would it perform as a home theatre it'll be for cable and movies, I also don't listen to TV/Movies at really high levels. Any other suggestion that would sound good and not cost anymore than $3500 that would be my max I could do for just speakers as I want a new AVR and I'm getting a new Panasonic Plasma to.

how would the MilleniaOne 5.0 compare to that set up? I like their price better hahaha I could then afford a better sub with the money difference.

I would step it up a bit and replace the studio 10s with the 20s. You could ditch th 590 and replace th center with another 20 and come out ahead. Or my recommendation is ditch the adp's, replace with studio 10s and put 20s up front with the 590.
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post #24872 of 28092
5/15/12 at 5:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_rider View Post

No comments on the new Stereophile review of the Studio 20 v.5?

http://www.stereophile.com/content/p...v5-loudspeaker

I'm not a big follower of magazine reviews, but that was a good article. Guy was point on about the excite 12s too. I noticed the same during my 13 month auditioning mission. I pissed a lot of people off in another thread a few weeks ago when I spoke about the excites are nothing to get excited about. Studio 20s sound better.
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post #24873 of 28092
5/16/12 at 7:38am
Quick question, is it simply physics that any speaker with more woofer area will produce more midbass than one with less area?

I ask this because i was wondering if it is a fact that the S8s produce more midbass than the S6s? Or is it a matter of what is on the disc, or where the speakers are placed? But given everything is equal, is it obvious that the S8 will produce more midbass than the S6?
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post #24874 of 28092
5/16/12 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post

Quick question, is it simply physics that any speaker with more woofer area will produce more midbass than one with less area?

I ask this because i was wondering if it is a fact that the S8s produce more midbass than the S6s? Or is it a matter of what is on the disc, or where the speakers are placed? But given everything is equal, is it obvious that the S8 will produce more midbass than the S6?

Well not "more" per se, you don't want an imbalance at any frequency.

Mid-bass is not as dependent on surface area as lower bass is, so the number of drivers won't be as critical as placement, listening distance and volume.
Bigger and more bass drivers along with a larger cabinet will be able to yield higher SPL by virtue of being more efficient. Higher SPL comes in handy as listening distance and room size increases.

It's kind of like headphones, if they're tight against your ears you hear everything perfectly from a 1" driver, but as soon a you move the ear-piece an inch or two away the bass disappears.

I went from the S4's to the S8's and haven't heard the S6's, but in terms of mid-bass, I don't think the S4's took much of a back seat to the S8's at about a 10' listening distance.
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post #24875 of 28092
5/16/12 at 8:18am
Thanks for your speedy response and it was very clear and much appreciated BUT i just dont understand how does the S4 not take a back seat to the S8 from 10'.

funny enough, i currently have S4s and a close friend of mine was saying that i could achieve more midbass from getting either the S6 or S8. Now my listening distance is about 12'-13' and will be that for a while. He was suggesting that my midbass lacks because i have only one 7" woofer producing between 100Hz to 300Hz and with more woofers in the speaker, my midbass would definitely improve. Logically, it sounds quite about right but now seeing your response, it makes me wonder.
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post #24876 of 28092
5/16/12 at 8:31am
producing bass is a matter of moving air, and the woofer diameter is one variable. Excursion is another parameter. Efficiency of the driver motor and cabinet is yet another. So it's hard to state if a larger driver by itself will produce less or more bass.

The other factor is compression, when a driver starts reaching its limit, it will start to cease to get any louder. A smaller less capable driver will start to compress in output. So a larger more efficient speaker such as the S8 will offer more dynamics at higher volumes. It could be very true that the S4 will keep pace in the mid bass with a S8 at lower volumes but start losing out at higher volumes.
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post #24877 of 28092
5/16/12 at 9:56am
Besides the driver, more bass is produced from more volume of air. Meaning more cabinet space. Of course, a lot has changed over the last 25 years. Remember when 12" woofers used to require 3.5 cubic feet of airspace compared to 1.0 today? People loathed over vented enclosures instead of sealed for that extra boom boom boom in their cars. Things are much different now and much more efficient.

I'm not sure why paradigm ceased making the S4 models. I would of bought a pair in v5 when I was in the market for speakers.
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post #24878 of 28092
5/16/12 at 12:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

I'm not sure why paradigm ceased making the S4 models. I would of bought a pair in v5 when I was in the market for speakers.

I was told that they weren't selling well since most would buy S4s (or Studio 40s - also discontinued) plus stands, which adds up close to the price of S6/Studio 60.
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post #24879 of 28092
5/16/12 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post

He was suggesting that my midbass lacks because i have only one 7" woofer producing between 100Hz to 300Hz and with more woofers in the speaker, my midbass would definitely improve. Logically, it sounds quite about right but now seeing your response, it makes me wonder.

2 or 3 feet can make a difference.

If a single 7" midbass driver can do between 100hz to 200hz @ +/- 2db and two 7" drivers can do 100hz to 200hz @ +/- 2db, and both can do it the SPL you want where's the advantage?

Now, if you "clean up" the sub-bass, the mid-bass becomes more articulate and prominent IMO. I used subs and extensive bass trapping and room EQ as well when I had the S4's so I had ruler flat FR from the mid-bass down to 14hz. In the same environment the S8's weren't that different in the mid-bass.
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post #24880 of 28092
5/16/12 at 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pstrisik View Post

I was told that they weren't selling well since most would buy S4s (or Studio 40s - also discontinued) plus stands, which adds up close to the price of S6/Studio 60.

Yeah I think that was the main reason, without having heard the 60's it makes sense. But the S4's are amazing, like a bookshelf on roids .

One of my all time favorite speakers is the Active 40's which orginated that design.
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post #24881 of 28092
5/16/12 at 1:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

I have a pair of studio 100s with 2 hsu vtf15s and I can hardly consider it overkill. There's plenty of music that can hit below 40hz. Rock, classical and hip hop do all the time. Where my vtf's really shine is watching movies having subs with floorstands gives you better bass response. With my 100s, they do need to be cranked to give off the bass, so a sub makes listening at lower levels more pleasant.

100s 60s 20s, etc all need a subwoofer to some degree. Where your center is important is for off axis listening. Using a bookshelf off axis won't cut it if your serious about your theatre. This is why paradigm gets a lot of haters in the theatre world when their cc's come highly recommended. A 3 way center gives you that ability to listen off axis without a loss of dialog quality.

Hi Venomous,

I think I finally understand what you mean by using the 60s with a sub is not "overkill" and should yield better bass/mid-bass response as opposed to using the 20s with a sub. Here's is how I understand, but please do correct this noob if I'm wrong.

In the case of the 60s which is a 2.5-way speaker, mid-range driver is assisted by 2 bass drivers from 500Hz and below, whereas in the case of 20s, a 2-way speaker, there's no bass driver and mid-range driver handles things from 20kHz and lower. A sub normally kicks in around 120Hz, and thus by using 60s you have extra two 5.5" bass drivers from 120Hz to 500Hz and better bass/mid-bass response.

The drawback though is from 500Hz to 2kHz, with 60s you have one 5.5" mid-range driver, but 20s gives you a 7" mid-range driver (but then again this 7" driver also has to handle the duty from 500Hz and below). How significant the mid-range difference is for 60s 5.5" vs. 20s 7" S-PAL, I have no clue.
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post #24882 of 28092
5/16/12 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post

Hi Venomous,

I think I finally understand what you mean by using the 60s with a sub is not "overkill" and should yield better bass/mid-bass response as opposed to using the 20s with a sub. Here's is how I understand, but please do correct this noob if I'm wrong.

In the case of the 60s which is a 2.5-way speaker, mid-range driver is assisted by 2 bass drivers from 500Hz and below, whereas in the case of 20s, a 2-way speaker, there's no bass driver and mid-range driver handles things from 20kHz and lower. A sub normally kicks in around 120Hz, and thus by using 60s you have extra two 5.5" bass drivers from 120Hz to 500Hz and better bass/mid-bass response.

The drawback though is from 500Hz to 2kHz, with 60s you have one 5.5" mid-range driver, but 20s gives you a 7" mid-range driver (but then again this 7" driver also has to handle the duty from 500Hz and below). How significant the mid-range difference is for 60s 5.5" vs. 20s 7" S-PAL, I have no clue.

Pretty close, the 60s in my opinion do not sound all that great. I find the larger driver in the 20s to sound better. Although the 10s I have sound pretty decent but they are only used for rear surround duty. The idea of multiple drivers is allows you to tune for a flatter response curve like RNR pointed out above. This is why I would hover between 20s and 100s,but each time I listened to 60s I walked away less impressed. Same with the 590 vs 690 to my ears, as I prefer the larger diameter drivers output better.

Add a nice sub or two and you have the perfect setup for listening if you do some tuning to flatten the mid and sub bass curve.

I don't think going 20s is a large sacrifice over the 60s. You can either go 20s and save cash to apply it to a sub or subs, or step up to the 100s and do a sub later. Either way I think you would be happy.
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post #24883 of 28092
5/16/12 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

Pretty close, the 60s in my opinion do not sound all that great. I find the larger driver in the 20s to sound better. Although the 10s I have sound pretty decent but they are only used for rear surround duty. The idea of multiple drivers is allows you to tune for a flatter response curve like RNR pointed out above. This is why I would hover between 20s and 100s,but each time I listened to 60s I walked away less impressed. Same with the 590 vs 690 to my ears, as I prefer the larger diameter drivers output better.

Add a nice sub or two and you have the perfect setup for listening if you do some tuning to flatten the mid and sub bass curve.

I don't think going 20s is a large sacrifice over the 60s. You can either go 20s and save cash to apply it to a sub or subs, or step up to the 100s and do a sub later. Either way I think you would be happy.

Actually I do have a sub. This is my current setup:
Studio 60v5
Studio Sub 12
No center or rear yet
Integra DTR-40.3 (replacing with Anthem MRX-500 when it arrives in about one week)
Room is 25x15

The problem I have is I bought the above setup (in piano black! ) based on my dealer's input and without understanding all the products in the Studio line. (My dealer did do a good job in recommending Paradigm over B&W and Totem) So now I feel as though I didn't spend the money wisely to get the best Paradigm setup that I could otherwise have gotten.

For one, I could have chosen 20s instead of 60s to save some money without giving up too much because I'd have the Sub 12 anyway (techno music). Second, I could have spent a little extra and jumped on the Sig S2 over the 60s. But don't get me wrong though, I still love how the 60s sound in my room. It's just that I can't help but feel it could have been better.

Now if I want to follow 20s or Sig S2 route, I'd have to go through the trouble of selling my 60s on the used market.
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post #24884 of 28092
5/16/12 at 6:22pm
I'm looking at a pair of studio 60 v5. In mint shape I'm reading people are not happy with them. Should I be looking at something else. What do you guys think is there down fall. Too bright-harsh
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post #24885 of 28092
5/16/12 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowx800 View Post

I'm looking at a pair of studio 60 v5. In mint shape I'm reading people are not happy with them. Should I be looking at something else. What do you guys think is there down fall. Too bright-harsh

Drivers are undersized IMHO which seem to cause the staging to be off and the bass leaving you for more. It's kind of hard to explain unless you listen to 20s, then 60s. You can definitely tell the difference between 100s and 60s.
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post #24886 of 28092
5/16/12 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post

Actually I do have a sub. This is my current setup:
Studio 60v5
Studio Sub 12
No center or rear yet
Integra DTR-40.3 (replacing with Anthem MRX-500 when it arrives in about one week)
Room is 25x15

The problem I have is I bought the above setup (in piano black! ) based on my dealer's input and without understanding all the products in the Studio line. (My dealer did do a good job in recommending Paradigm over B&W and Totem) So now I feel as though I didn't spend the money wisely to get the best Paradigm setup that I could otherwise have gotten.

For one, I could have chosen 20s instead of 60s to save some money without giving up too much because I'd have the Sub 12 anyway (techno music). Second, I could have spent a little extra and jumped on the Sig S2 over the 60s. But don't get me wrong though, I still love how the 60s sound in my room. It's just that I can't help but feel it could have been better.

Now if I want to follow 20s or Sig S2 route, I'd have to go through the trouble of selling my 60s on the used market.

That's a tough position to be in. The S2s are nice however. Just remember when you go signature, everything goes up in price a lot. ESP when you are looking at centers and surrounds.

If you want to level everything out, consider studio 10s for the rear and a 590 center. At least all of your speakers will be the same size.
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post #24887 of 28092
5/16/12 at 7:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pstrisik View Post


I was told that they weren't selling well since most would buy S4s (or Studio 40s - also discontinued) plus stands, which adds up close to the price of S6/Studio 60.

What you say makes perfect sense for the Studio 40/60 because the price difference was only $500 a pair. But when the v2 Sigs were still out the S4 and the S6 were priced far enough apart that even after buying stands for the S4s it would be a big jump to the S6s. I'm not disagreeing with you but it seems like there is room in the Sig line for something between the S2 and S6.
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post #24888 of 28092
5/17/12 at 6:54am
I have Paradigm Studio 100s (v.5), CC-590, and Mini Monitors.

Currently have a Denon 4306. Looking to go with something that has DTS-HD, TrueHD, and AirPlay. I use vinyl, so one with good phono inputs is a must.

Looking between the Denon 3313 (unreleased) and the Pioneer SC-65. Open to other suggestions.

Thanks all!
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post #24889 of 28092
5/17/12 at 9:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckg1999 View Post

I have Paradigm Studio 100s (v.5), CC-590, and Mini Monitors.

Currently have a Denon 4306. Looking to go with something that has DTS-HD, TrueHD, and AirPlay. I use vinyl, so one with good phono inputs is a must.

Looking between the Denon 3313 (unreleased) and the Pioneer SC-65. Open to other suggestions.

Thanks all!

You would be crazy not to be looking at the 4311! Pioneers room correction is so piss poor... Not to mention they didn't even touch it to improve it on their upcoming overpriced receivers.
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post #24890 of 28092
5/17/12 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kzhtoo View Post

But don't get me wrong though, I still love how the 60s sound in my room. It's just that I can't help but feel it could have been better.

A classic case of buyers remorse, with a slight dose of "upgraditis" thrown in.

Don't sweat it and enjoy, if anything add another Sub12, techno is pretty bass heavy and reducing the load on the 60's won't hurt one bit.

More importantly, and I can't stress this enough to anyone seeking audio nirvana, go spend some time reading here;

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=91

Understanding room/speaker interaction is where you'll get the biggest return on your audio efforts.
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post #24891 of 28092
5/17/12 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

You would be crazy not to be looking at the 4311! Pioneers room correction is so piss poor... Not to mention they didn't even touch it to improve it on their upcoming overpriced receivers.

No idea on the Pioneer, but the Audyssey XT32 Pro of the 4311 is worth the price of admission. I just had my AVP upgraded to get XT32 and it is outstanding.
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post #24892 of 28092
5/17/12 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

No idea on the Pioneer, but the Audyssey XT32 Pro of the 4311 is worth the price of admission. I just had my AVP upgraded to get XT32 and it is outstanding.

I also see the Onkyo 818 has XT32 pro. Between those two - thoughts?
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post #24893 of 28092
5/17/12 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckg1999 View Post

I also see the Onkyo 818 has XT32 pro. Between those two - thoughts?

No, don't know too much about Onkyo's receivers, but shouldn't be too much difference in sound with digital inputs. I'd do some research and see what feature set best match your needs and read their threads for any bug issues that might affect your application. Anthem's ARC is also an excellent RC, so you could look at that those receivers too.
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post #24894 of 28092
5/17/12 at 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckg1999 View Post

I also see the Onkyo 818 has XT32 pro. Between those two - thoughts?

Couple of guys returned the 818 for the 4311. 4311 can be upgraded to pro as well. Be smart, pull the trigger on the 4311. Call electronics expo for their best price.
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post #24895 of 28092
5/17/12 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

4311 can be upgraded to pro as well.

What do you mean "upgraded" to pro?
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post #24896 of 28092
5/17/12 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post


Couple of guys returned the 818 for the 4311. 4311 can be upgraded to pro as well. Be smart, pull the trigger on the 4311. Call electronics expo for their best price.

The 818 hasn't even been released yet. I'm wondering between these two units myself, but waiting for people to start getting the 818 and get their feedback. To my knowledge only reviewers have them and aren't saying much about them yet, probably per Onkyo's request.
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post #24897 of 28092
5/17/12 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckg1999 View Post

What do you mean "upgraded" to pro?

Audyssey pro,which consists of a new mic measuring setup and then $150 for the pro license. I don't know of any avr's that come with pro out the gate.
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post #24898 of 28092
5/17/12 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

Audyssey pro,which consists of a new mic measuring setup and then $150 for the pro license. I don't know of any avr's that come with pro out the gate.

There's a list of units that are "installer ready" on Audyssey's website. The units come with the Pro capability built in, then you have to buy the kit which has the software and purchase a license on-line for each unit you want to calibrate. There's an installers kit thread over in the amps & receivers section here if anyone's interested.
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post #24899 of 28092
5/17/12 at 3:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 519audiofan View Post

What you say makes perfect sense for the Studio 40/60 because the price difference was only $500 a pair. But when the v2 Sigs were still out the S4 and the S6 were priced far enough apart that even after buying stands for the S4s it would be a big jump to the S6s. I'm not disagreeing with you but it seems like there is room in the Sig line for something between the S2 and S6.

This is a good point.

Another thought, which I have no idea if has any validity....... They revamped the studio line from v4 to v5 with smaller drivers, but more of them (I think). It may have been an issue redesigning the 40 to fit this new approach. I don't know if the sigs did anything similar between versions when the S4 was nixed.
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post #24900 of 28092
5/17/12 at 3:55pm
Sounds like the 4311 + audeysey kit is the best option. Should I use my 4306 as an AMP or sell it?

Thanks for the input!
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