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Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 851

post #25501 of 30080
Quote:
Originally Posted by dholl006 View Post

What would I be missing performance wise if i were to get the Studio 60 and not the Studio 100? Looking at the Millenia 30 and the CC-690 they seem to be somewhat close in specs but how much different are they really? Also, this isnt very cost effectivesolution but what if I got 2 CC-490?
The room that I am trying to fill is about 20' x 15' with a vaulted ceiling up to about 20', so I just want to make sure that whatever I get will compensate for this. I just dont want to get the Studio 60 and be left with wanting more.

In my demo of the 60s/100s I felt that the latter had a wider, fuller sound that the 60s (in a 2channel music situation). The bass w/o a sub was lacking imo for both, but the mids and highs were right on. Also the 100s seemed to do a better job of separating the vocals from instruments. I didn't get a chance to demo the 60s in a movie scenario sadly, but from everything I gathered, I'd personally pref the 100s.

If you can find a dealer, you should go demo them to get an idea of what sounds best to you.
post #25502 of 30080
Quote:
Originally Posted by dholl006 View Post

What would I be missing performance wise if i were to get the Studio 60 and not the Studio 100? Looking at the Millenia 30 and the CC-690 they seem to be somewhat close in specs but how much different are they really? Also, this isnt very cost effectivesolution but what if I got 2 CC-490?
The room that I am trying to fill is about 20' x 15' with a vaulted ceiling up to about 20', so I just want to make sure that whatever I get will compensate for this. I just dont want to get the Studio 60 and be left with wanting more.

Unfortunately, the 60s were at the top end of my budget for mains, so I did not demo the 100s. I can tell you however that the 60s are great in my room of about 18 x 23 with approx 14ft ceilings.
post #25503 of 30080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epyon415 View Post

In my demo of the 60s/100s I felt that the latter had a wider, fuller sound that the 60s (in a 2channel music situation). The bass w/o a sub was lacking imo for both, but the mids and highs were right on. Also the 100s seemed to do a better job of separating the vocals from instruments. I didn't get a chance to demo the 60s in a movie scenario sadly, but from everything I gathered, I'd personally pref the 100s.
If you can find a dealer, you should go demo them to get an idea of what sounds best to you.

I went this past weekend to Demo the 100's and ended up liking the sound that they produced. I will agree that the bass w/o a sub is lacking for me but its nothing that a sub couldnt take care of. I wasnt able to compare the 100's and the 60's because the dealer I went to didnt have a pair of the 60's. I originally went to compare the 100's to the Monitor 11's, but the dealer didnt have any 11's but did have the 9's. I know its probably not the best comparison but in the end me and my wife liked the 100's better. As I have stated before my biggest hurdle is the center channel. The dealer mentioned buying the cc-490 and using that and if I felt like I needed more then to add a second one. I really dont know if this is the best solution which is why I suggested the Millenia 30. In the end we want something that will bring us many years of quality sound without having to upgrade year after year.
post #25504 of 30080
Quote:
Originally Posted by dholl006 View Post

I went this past weekend to Demo the 100's and ended up liking the sound that they produced. I will agree that the bass w/o a sub is lacking for me but its nothing that a sub couldnt take care of. I wasnt able to compare the 100's and the 60's because the dealer I went to didnt have a pair of the 60's. I originally went to compare the 100's to the Monitor 11's, but the dealer didnt have any 11's but did have the 9's. I know its probably not the best comparison but in the end me and my wife liked the 100's better. As I have stated before my biggest hurdle is the center channel. The dealer mentioned buying the cc-490 and using that and if I felt like I needed more then to add a second one. I really dont know if this is the best solution which is why I suggested the Millenia 30. In the end we want something that will bring us many years of quality sound without having to upgrade year after year.

How big was the room you demoed the 100's in? You may find they put out much more bass than you think once you get them home. This was true of my S6s.
post #25505 of 30080
Quote:
Originally Posted by dholl006 View Post

I went this past weekend to Demo the 100's and ended up liking the sound that they produced. I will agree that the bass w/o a sub is lacking for me but its nothing that a sub couldnt take care of. I wasnt able to compare the 100's and the 60's because the dealer I went to didnt have a pair of the 60's. I originally went to compare the 100's to the Monitor 11's, but the dealer didnt have any 11's but did have the 9's. I know its probably not the best comparison but in the end me and my wife liked the 100's better. As I have stated before my biggest hurdle is the center channel. The dealer mentioned buying the cc-490 and using that and if I felt like I needed more then to add a second one. I really dont know if this is the best solution which is why I suggested the Millenia 30. In the end we want something that will bring us many years of quality sound without having to upgrade year after year.

Is your space limitation due to your entertainment center? I can't personally speak on the 490, but I own the 690 and had demo'd the 590, and I am glad I bought the 690. If something is obstructing your option for placement of either center channels have you looked at possibly using the paradigm stand for either 590/690?
post #25506 of 30080
Hey dholl:

If you get the 100s, get a 690. I found this out the hard way. Lots of $$$ later.
post #25507 of 30080
Why do you say get the 690? I am looking at different options in the series and am curious.
post #25508 of 30080
Quote:
Originally Posted by dholl006 View Post

I went this past weekend to Demo the 100's and ended up liking the sound that they produced. I will agree that the bass w/o a sub is lacking for me but its nothing that a sub couldnt take care of. I wasnt able to compare the 100's and the 60's because the dealer I went to didnt have a pair of the 60's. I originally went to compare the 100's to the Monitor 11's, but the dealer didnt have any 11's but did have the 9's. I know its probably not the best comparison but in the end me and my wife liked the 100's better. As I have stated before my biggest hurdle is the center channel. The dealer mentioned buying the cc-490 and using that and if I felt like I needed more then to add a second one. I really dont know if this is the best solution which is why I suggested the Millenia 30. In the end we want something that will bring us many years of quality sound without having to upgrade year after year.
Adding to what others have said:

I wonder how the demo speakers were set up. I think my 100's put out some pretty good bass when run full range and after running the room correction program on my receiver set to no sub. My sub fried and I went for about 6 weeks without one before I picked up a Rythmik F12. Sure it's not the same without a dedicated subwoofer but it's pretty impressive. I demo'd my setup for a couple of friends, sans sub, by playing TRON: Legacy at -10 and they were very impressed.

As aryton pointed out the CC-690 is the perfect match for Studio 100's and is just a better center channel than the others. Yeah, it's huge but IMO it's worth it. And like Epyon415 said, if your entertainment center/stand or whatever is the problem I'd look at other options that would let you fit the 690. Mine is located above my 65" plasma on a modified floor-standing TV stand my old 50" use to be mounted on. The 65" is sitting on an Omnimount ECHO 50LE table I got from Amazon. The 690 would fit in the ECHO table but I felt it would be too low so my electronics reside there. The legs of the floor stand fit under the ECHO's bottom shelf and are hidden. I built an adjustable tilt shelf that I bolted to the floor stand that suspends the 690 right over the TV and angles down at the LP. It took a little ingenuity but looks and works great.

My living room is only 12' x 17' x 8'Ht. and opens up in the back/left corner to a dining area. TV and L/C/R are on the 12' end wall. The 100's are definitly NOT too big for my space.
Edited by Ishniknork - 9/11/12 at 7:21pm
post #25509 of 30080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishniknork View Post

Adding to what others have said:
I wonder how the demo speakers were set up. I think my 100's put out some pretty good bass when run full range and after running the room correction program on my receiver set to no sub. My sub fried and I went for about 6 weeks without one before I picked up a Rythmik F12. Sure it's not the same without a dedicated subwoofer but it's pretty impressive. I demo'd my setup for a couple of friends, sans sub, by playing TRON: Legacy at -10 and they were very impressed.
As aryton pointed out the CC-690 is the perfect match for Studio 100's and is just a better center channel than the others. Yeah, it's huge but IMO it's worth it. And like Epyon415 said, if your entertainment center/stand or whatever is the problem I'd look at other options that would let you fit the 690. Mine is located above my 65" plasma on a modified floor-standing TV stand my old 50" use to be mounted on. The 65" is sitting on an Omnimount ECHO 50LE table I got from Amazon. The 690 would fit in the ECHO table but I felt it would be too low so my electronics reside there. The legs of the floor stand fit under the ECHO's bottom shelf and are hidden. I built an adjustable tilt shelf that I bolted to the floor stand that suspends the 690 right over the TV and angles down at the LP. It took a little ingenuity but looks and works great.
My living room is only 12' x 17' x 8'Ht. and opens up in the back/left corner to a dining area. TV and L/C/R are on the 12' end wall. The 100's are definitly NOT too big for my space.

You don't happen to have a picture of this? I would like to mount a CC-690 over my display, and would be interested in your solution. Thanks!
post #25510 of 30080
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayrton View Post

Hey dholl:
If you get the 100s, get a 690. I found this out the hard way. Lots of $$$ later.

My limitation is due to my TV being mounted above my fireplace. The center channel will have to sit on the fireplace mantel which is only 9.5" in depth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epyon415 View Post

Is your space limitation due to your entertainment center? I can't personally speak on the 490, but I own the 690 and had demo'd the 590, and I am glad I bought the 690. If something is obstructing your option for placement of either center channels have you looked at possibly using the paradigm stand for either 590/690?

It would be a pleasure to get the 690 now instead of having to possbily buy the the 490 and then later on when we move buy the 690.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishniknork View Post

Adding to what others have said:
I wonder how the demo speakers were set up. I think my 100's put out some pretty good bass when run full range and after running the room correction program on my receiver set to no sub. My sub fried and I went for about 6 weeks without one before I picked up a Rythmik F12. Sure it's not the same without a dedicated subwoofer but it's pretty impressive. I demo'd my setup for a couple of friends, sans sub, by playing TRON: Legacy at -10 and they were very impressed.
As aryton pointed out the CC-690 is the perfect match for Studio 100's and is just a better center channel than the others. Yeah, it's huge but IMO it's worth it. And like Epyon415 said, if your entertainment center/stand or whatever is the problem I'd look at other options that would let you fit the 690. Mine is located above my 65" plasma on a modified floor-standing TV stand my old 50" use to be mounted on. The 65" is sitting on an Omnimount ECHO 50LE table I got from Amazon. The 690 would fit in the ECHO table but I felt it would be too low so my electronics reside there. The legs of the floor stand fit under the ECHO's bottom shelf and are hidden. I built an adjustable tilt shelf that I bolted to the floor stand that suspends the 690 right over the TV and angles down at the LP. It took a little ingenuity but looks and works great.
My living room is only 12' x 17' x 8'Ht. and opens up in the back/left corner to a dining area. TV and L/C/R are on the 12' end wall. The 100's are definitly NOT too big for my space.

Well either way I will have a dedicated subwoofer. When we demo'd the speakers we tried them with and w/o a sub. Just felt that w/o that it lacked. But this could very well be how the speakers were set up. I have explored every option of how to get around the depth issue and conclusion is that we have to deal with the 9.5". There is no way around it. Thats why my original question was which of the speakers I listed would be best matched to the 100's. I think that if I want to get the 100's then my only option is the 490 with possibly adding a second down the road. mad.gif
post #25511 of 30080
Since the 690 is rear ported, I wondered if anyone could opine on the minimum distance it should sit from the wall and the ideal distance. I'm thinking of building a shelf above a 65" plasma and to point the 690 down to the primary listening positions. I also want it to look good aesthetically... so, if anyone else has done this, I would be curious as to how. Thanks!
post #25512 of 30080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anhydro View Post

Since the 690 is rear ported, I wondered if anyone could opine on the minimum distance it should sit from the wall and the ideal distance. I'm thinking of building a shelf above a 65" plasma and to point the 690 down to the primary listening positions. I also want it to look good aesthetically... so, if anyone else has done this, I would be curious as to how. Thanks!

You'll want the rear of the speaker at least 12" from the wall. 24" would be better. Basically, you are going to get a lot of mid-bass bloat with the speaker so close to a back wall. Granted, with just about any room EQ system you could tame this, but it is always best to position your speakers in the best possible location to minimize the amount of DSP you have to apply.
post #25513 of 30080
Quote:
Originally Posted by dholl006 View Post

My limitation is due to my TV being mounted above my fireplace. The center channel will have to sit on the fireplace mantel which is only 9.5" in depth.
It would be a pleasure to get the 690 now instead of having to possbily buy the the 490 and then later on when we move buy the 690.
Well either way I will have a dedicated subwoofer. When we demo'd the speakers we tried them with and w/o a sub. Just felt that w/o that it lacked. But this could very well be how the speakers were set up. I have explored every option of how to get around the depth issue and conclusion is that we have to deal with the 9.5". There is no way around it. Thats why my original question was which of the speakers I listed would be best matched to the 100's. I think that if I want to get the 100's then my only option is the 490 with possibly adding a second down the road. mad.gif

Is the speaker stand in front of your fireplace an option? Also, you will need a subwoofer for impact during movies, but you may find it is not required for music.
post #25514 of 30080
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcarroll01 View Post

Why do you say get the 690? I am looking at different options in the series and am curious.

I originally bought the 100s with a 590 and never was happy with the 590. It didn't seem a match for the 100s. In movies (Blu Ray) Dialogue was weak. So I went back to the local Paradigm dealer and bought a 690.

When I went to Sigs, I bought a C5 initially so I didn't go through this again.

My opinion, for movies and music, is that the 690 is a perfect match for the 100s. YOMV
post #25515 of 30080
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayrton View Post

I originally bought the 100s with a 590 and never was happy with the 590. It didn't seem a match for the 100s. In movies (Blu Ray) Dialogue was weak. So I went back to the local Paradigm dealer and bought a 690.
When I went to Sigs, I bought a C5 initially so I didn't go through this again.
My opinion, for movies and music, is that the 690 is a perfect match for the 100s. YOMV

I don't think the C3 has the same problem. It sounds very full and the dialogue is very clear / strong. It actually depends the most on content. One of the worst movies for dialogue is The Dark Knight Blu-ray. Some of the clearest dialogue I've heard is the later seasons of House on Blu-ray.
post #25516 of 30080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post

I don't think the C3 has the same problem. It sounds very full and the dialogue is very clear / strong. It actually depends the most on content. One of the worst movies for dialogue is The Dark Knight Blu-ray. Some of the clearest dialogue I've heard is the later seasons of House on Blu-ray.

I couldn't risk it. The wife would kill me if I did the same thing with the Sigs. eek.gif

All of the Dark Knight comes through solid with my current system.
post #25517 of 30080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anhydro View Post

You don't happen to have a picture of this? I would like to mount a CC-690 over my display, and would be interested in your solution. Thanks!
No I don't but let me work on that. I'd have to pull the TV table with all the equipment on it out of the way to show the BDI stand and the shelf I made. The TV weighs about 190 lbs all by itself. It's kind of a bear to move everything, the ECHO table doesn't have casters and the floor is carpeted, but I do need to do some cleaning back there. I'll PM you if I get some pics. I have some 3D CAD models I made at work that I used to CNC rout some of the pieces out with. I'll see if I can get you a PDF of that at least.

It shouldn't be too hard to build a shelf to set the 690 on if you have a wall to mount it to. I would just be sure to anchor it to the studs very well, the 690 is pretty heavy. 2 Ft. long rails running down / behind the TV with at least 3 good fasteners on each rail I think would probably do it. The shelf itself wouldn't have to tilt, you can put a wood wedge under the back of the 690's feet to tilt it. I remember reading here in this thread that some people used those rubber, wedge-shaped door stops to tilt the front up to aim it at the LP when the center was below the TV.

On the spacing from the wall... I read somwhere (in this thread too, I think) that the minimum distance for rear-ported speakers should be something like 2 or 2.5 times the port diameter. My 690 is about 4-6" from some blackout curtains and I don't notice any problem with mid-bass bloat. Perhaps the curtains help prevent that.
Edited by Ishniknork - 9/12/12 at 9:07pm
post #25518 of 30080
For those interested here's a PDF of the center channel stand I made using the BDi 9972 TV stand base.

EDIT: Added a couple of pictures...


Floor Standing Center Channel Shelf.pdf 223k .pdf file

DSC_0144.JPG 67k .JPG file

CC-690 Stand-01 Reduced.JPG 34k .JPG file
Edited by Ishniknork - 9/14/12 at 7:36pm
post #25519 of 30080
Hey guys, just looking for some opinions. What do you think would be the better upgrade, going with Studio 100s with a 690 or going with Sig S2s with the C3? Some more info is basically would be used for 85% movies/bluray/tv/games and 15% music. In a living room setup that is about 13x17x9. I also currently have 2 Studio Sub 12s to go with either system. The S6s or C5 would be out of my price range, or else i would just get those. Thanks for any input. smile.gif

04rex
Edited by 04rex - 9/15/12 at 4:22pm
post #25520 of 30080
I would go for the Studio 100's if i had the room in my bedroom. I used to have the big Klipsch 5.1 RF7 setup and then went to the smaller Studio 10v5's. I'm sure the Sig2's would also be great.

I am on the list for a pair of the Inspirations monitors that Paradigm is coming out with later this year. Guess they will be a mix of the Sig's and Studio's.
post #25521 of 30080
Nice, those look awesome.

I just want to make sure i make the right choice. If the Sigs would be a better choice even though they are smaller, then i would go that route. In terms of WAF, im sure smaller is better. lol.
post #25522 of 30080
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post

I would go for the Studio 100's if i had the room in my bedroom. I used to have the big Klipsch 5.1 RF7 setup and then went to the smaller Studio 10v5's. I'm sure the Sig2's would also be great.
I am on the list for a pair of the Inspirations monitors that Paradigm is coming out with later this year. Guess they will be a mix of the Sig's and Studio's.

Hopefully you can demo both. This will be the only way to be sure. The one thing I would note is the in demo room bass response will likely be nothing like the bass response in your home. Sounds like you'll be using your pair of Sub 12s to fill that in anyway. I would go S2 / C3. A plus is you can expand your sig setup later, if you were to ever get the budget. I enjoy a pair of S2s in a two channel setup without a sub; They go plenty deep.
post #25523 of 30080
I am running the Studio 100 v.5s and love them but the S2/ C3 combo is a force to be reckoned with.. I think it would come down to the size of the room, the type of music I listened too and my goals for my over all system. If you want to spend now and be done with it I would lean towards the Studio 100s but if you plan on having a system that is constantly evolving then I could go with the S2 combo. Later you could move those S2s to the rear and add an S6 or S8. Tough decision and I am glad its not mine.
post #25524 of 30080
To be honest, i think this would be one and done. I dont think i would upgrade for a while. That's why i want to make the right choice now. Wifey wouldnt like me talking about upgrading again.
post #25525 of 30080
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post

To be honest, i think this would be one and done. I dont think i would upgrade for a while. That's why i want to make the right choice now. Wifey wouldnt like me talking about upgrading again.

The S2 gives yoou options if you change your mind down the road but the Studio 100s is one and done. In some ways I wish I would have got the S2s so I could add the S8s now.
post #25526 of 30080
post #25527 of 30080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryder125 View Post

You guys read this review on the MilleniaOnes
http://www.hometheater.com/content/paradigm-milleniaone-speaker-system

I had the 5.1 set and they sure kick for little speakers.
post #25528 of 30080
I've got a pair of Sig S1's I need to wall mount-has anyone else done this with off the shelf mounts? So far it looks like I will have to make an adapter mounting plate but I'D like to just buy mounts that fit if possible.
post #25529 of 30080
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryder125 View Post

You guys read this review on the MilleniaOnes
http://www.hometheater.com/content/paradigm-milleniaone-speaker-system
Just read the review and if I was in the market for a sat/sub system I would definitely go listen to this one. In fact the next time I'm at my dealer I may listen to them just because. Also the reviewer mentions the new low price on the PBK($99). Does anyone know if that price is correct? Anyone here recommend using PBK and if so what can you tell me about it.
post #25530 of 30080
Code:
Quote:
Originally Posted by textilet View Post

I've got a pair of Sig S1's I need to wall mount-has anyone else done this with off the shelf mounts? So far it looks like I will have to make an adapter mounting plate but I'D like to just buy mounts that fit if possible.

http://www.amazon.com/Pinpoint-AM-40B-Clamping-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B002UV03MW

These are what I used to mount my S-1's to the wall . They work great,
And with the clamping design you don't have to drill your speakers.

The bottom curvature of the S1 makes it look funny.
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