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Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 892

post #26731 of 30073
Coresare,

Save your money and get at least the Studio 20's, if you can swing it.

It's quite possible that the next new thing in surround will be object-oriented audio. From Dolby and DTS object-oriented format recommendations (they're both similar products), it looks like direct radiating, timbre matched speakers all around are the best solution. Object-oriented sound is more precise in its sound effects localization and frequency range and the in-phase, out-of-phase cues will come from the mix rather than the speaker. Dipoles seem to be out, which would exclude the ADP-590's. Besides, the Studio 20's have more bass response.

If you want to go with the five array of front speakers, you'll probably want another pair of 100's up front (you can still try DTS Neo X matrix processing to tide you over). The front five speakers are, especially, supposed to be identical (the center may have to be horizontal if you don't have an acoustically transparent projection screen). The surrounds (walls and over head's) don't absolutely have to be really large speakers, but they do need to be timbre matched. There may be bass management that will allow for surround "channel" subwoofers if the surrounds can't handle the lower bass.

Just thinking ahead.
Edited by Dan Hitchman - 2/21/13 at 8:28pm
post #26732 of 30073
Interesting comments on the ADP 590's - which I just bought today and installed. Mine is an older system - Paradigm Studio 60's v.2 with a CC690 center. ADP 590's mounted as side surrounds with direct firing Orb Mod2's as back surrounds.

First impression? Much different than direct radiating speakers. I've only listened to it for a couple of hours - - a movie and a couple TV shows. Wider dispersed soundstage - - much less in your face, so to speak. You can still makeout discrete soundtracks and imaging - - it's just not a jarrring as direct speakers are. If you like "in your face" sound surround with bullets whizzing from different locations that are easily identifiable - - the Dipole ADP 590's might not be for you. If you like a wider soundstage and more integrated soundstage - - check them out.

To me, the sound is fuller. The side surround 590's match the Left Front and Left Right speaker better - - it's an integrated sound, if that makes sense. Example: there was some background music (a synthesizer or organ type track that came at your from the front speakers and the side Dipoles - - perfectly matched in timbre.) It sounds wider and tighter. I still get imaging from the back surrounds which are easily pinpointed. It makes for a nice match for a 7.1 setup I'm very happy with them, so far. I had to replace them to get them exactly right (null area) but now they are in the perfect location.

I think it all boils down to personal preference.
post #26733 of 30073
Toward coresare-

IMO room size factors in heavily in that decision. If you have a room large enough that would allow you to place the monopoles at least 6' or more away from the nearest seating position or if it's open toward the back or sides without walls for the dipoles to reflect off of they might be a better alternative. But in my 12' x 17' room I went from monopole to dipole ADP-390's with my 100's in a 5.1 setup and liked it much better. Monopoles were way too "noticeable" no matter where you sat or where I placed or pointed them. Now I run a 7.1 system with ADP-590's on the sides and the ADP-390's in the rear and like it very much. I can't wait to replace the 390's with another pair of the 590's to match everything up.

Ricoflashback said it pretty well. I find the ADP's more enveloping and transparent. I still get excellent directional sounds like bullets being fired or whizzing by. It just doesn't sound like it's comming from THAT speaker but rather that direction.
post #26734 of 30073
Thank you so much guys. My room is small, like 12 x 13 and the tv is above the fireplace in a corner...so the best seat to be sitting is in the opposite corner. Not ideal. Looks like I'm leaning towards the ADP's due to room constraints.
post #26735 of 30073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

Interesting comments on the ADP 590's - which I just bought today and installed. Mine is an older system - Paradigm Studio 60's v.2 with a CC690 center. ADP 590's mounted as side surrounds with direct firing Orb Mod2's as back surrounds.

First impression? Much different than direct radiating speakers. I've only listened to it for a couple of hours - - a movie and a couple TV shows. Wider dispersed soundstage - - much less in your face, so to speak. You can still makeout discrete soundtracks and imaging - - it's just not a jarrring as direct speakers are. If you like "in your face" sound surround with bullets whizzing from different locations that are easily identifiable - - the Dipole ADP 590's might not be for you. If you like a wider soundstage and more integrated soundstage - - check them out.

To me, the sound is fuller. The side surround 590's match the Left Front and Left Right speaker better - - it's an integrated sound, if that makes sense. Example: there was some background music (a synthesizer or organ type track that came at your from the front speakers and the side Dipoles - - perfectly matched in timbre.) It sounds wider and tighter. I still get imaging from the back surrounds which are easily pinpointed. It makes for a nice match for a 7.1 setup I'm very happy with them, so far. I had to replace them to get them exactly right (null area) but now they are in the perfect location.

I think it all boils down to personal preference.

do your 590s have a switch for dipole bipole?

they seem like a dipole speaker but paradigm calls them a reverberant soundfield surrounds.. im glade you like em im getting these too.. better than a direct speaker blasting your ear off..

cheers..
post #26736 of 30073
Quote:
Originally Posted by coresare View Post

Thank you so much guys. My room is small, like 12 x 13 and the tv is above the fireplace in a corner...so the best seat to be sitting is in the opposite corner. Not ideal. Looks like I'm leaning towards the ADP's due to room constraints.

nothing like a fire place for recking a room for ht...
post #26737 of 30073
Quote:
Eljay - Did you own anything prior to the Paradigms?
My first speakers were Paradigm 7se's. 20 years later, I bought my buddy's Paradigm Monitor 7v4s for the HT I was setting up in my newly-finished basement. A couple of years after that, I had the chance to upgrade to some gently-used Studio 60v4s. I have heard other speakers over the years, but I've never heard anything that made me think I was really missing out on something by sticking with Paradigm. smile.gif
post #26738 of 30073
Quote:
do your 590s have a switch for dipole bipole?
I had 590s for a while when I was running 7.1, and they did not have a switch. Nice speakers, though: They were a perfect complement to my S60v4s up front and S20v4s in back, and (IMO) their indirect-radiating configuration was perfect for side-surround duty.
Edited by eljaycanuck - 2/22/13 at 5:25am
post #26739 of 30073
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

My first speakers were Paradigm 7se's. 20 years later, I bought my buddy's Paradigm Monitor 7v4s for the HT I was setting up in my newly-finished basement. A couple of years after that, I had the chance to upgrade to some gently-used Studio 60v4s. I have heard other speakers over the years, but I've never heard anything that made me think I was really missing out on something by sticking with Paradigm. smile.gif

I own PSB now but Paradigm was a contender when I bought them but the PSB had a better value in the price range I was at.
post #26740 of 30073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishniknork View Post

Toward coresare-

IMO room size factors in heavily in that decision. If you have a room large enough that would allow you to place the monopoles at least 6' or more away from the nearest seating position or if it's open toward the back or sides without walls for the dipoles to reflect off of they might be a better alternative. But in my 12' x 17' room I went from monopole to dipole ADP-390's with my 100's in a 5.1 setup and liked it much better. Monopoles were way too "noticeable" no matter where you sat or where I placed or pointed them. Now I run a 7.1 system with ADP-590's on the sides and the ADP-390's in the rear and like it very much. I can't wait to replace the 390's with another pair of the 590's to match everything up.

Ricoflashback said it pretty well. I find the ADP's more enveloping and transparent. I still get excellent directional sounds like bullets being fired or whizzing by. It just doesn't sound like it's comming from THAT speaker but rather that direction.

Really, really good point. I forgot to add that I have a smaller man cave - - ceiling height is 89" (7 feet - 5 inches) and I sit about eleven to twelve feet from the screen fully reclined. My side surrounds are close to me - - especially the left side surround, which used to be a couple feet from my left ear with monopoles. (See pictures)

While I'm the kind of guy that likes "in your face" surround (and 3D - like a Muhammad Ali stiff left jab) - - I found myself always looking to the left side surround during movies as discrete sounds would really stand out. Also - - it was more difficult to distinguish the sounds coming from the back surrounds.

In a larger room, monopoles probably work better (and if you could have the same, exact speaker, even better!) But for my room - - the Paradigm ADP 590's have given me a much wider soundfield and have eliminated the "hot spot" of the left side surround due to my seating proximity. And, as an added benefit, I am able to distinguish discrete sounds from my direct firing back surrounds much easier - - which has added to my movie enjoyment.

I also enjoy the seamless Dipole integration with my front left and front right speaker. Same timbre and tonal quality - - which is great when a soundtrack pipes in the same music to the side surrounds and the front speakers!

All in all - - I'm very happy with my purchase and it fits my room to a "T." (Or a "D" - as in Dipole!)






Edited by Ricoflashback - 2/22/13 at 5:51am
post #26741 of 30073
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

do your 590s have a switch for dipole bipole?

they seem like a dipole speaker but paradigm calls them a reverberant soundfield surrounds.. im glade you like em im getting these too.. better than a direct speaker blasting your ear off..

cheers..

No switch that I noticed. I think you'll like them very much. It adds a new dimension to your HT setup.
post #26742 of 30073
BTW, nice room, Ricoflashback. Looks like an inviting and comfortable place to settle in for some high-def entertainment! cool.gif
post #26743 of 30073
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

BTW, nice room, Ricoflashback. Looks like an inviting and comfortable place to settle in for some high-def entertainment! cool.gif

Thanks, Eljaycanuck. Much appreciated! It wouldn't have been the same without the CC690 center - - which you helped me with my buying decision. It really makes all the difference in the world. I had a chance to see some real high end equipment at my Paradigm dealer's location yesterday. Geez, this stuff is addicting. I'd need a new house plus a lot bigger room to accommodate some of that equipment! (Plus I'd need to win the lotto to finance it!)

Lots of great HT setups (including yours!) on AVS Forum. It's a great place to learn about technology and what works and what doesn't. I'd love to have a projector but my room (especially ceiling height) is kind of low and not that wide. Someday. I saw some projectors on Bluray.com (Digital Projection - dVision 35) that is the first 2.35 constant height projector with no anamorphic lens. Pretty cool, but also pretty expensive!

I'll have to wait until we move down to the Yucatan peninsula (Playa del Carmen or Tulum - maybe even Belize) to get a projector. Maybe I'll just incorporate it in my "RicoSuave" bar & restaurant!
post #26744 of 30073
Quote:
I own PSB now but Paradigm was a contender when I bought them but the PSB had a better value in the price range I was at.
AFAIK, PSB has a very solid reputation. Image T5s were among the speakers I demo'd a couple of years ago for my family-room, two-channel set-up: They were nice-looking, good-sounding and reasonably-priced. Which PSBs do you have?
post #26745 of 30073
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Quote:
do your 590s have a switch for dipole bipole?
I had 590s for a while when I was running 7.1, and they did not have a switch. Nice speakers, though: They were a perfect complement to my S60v4s up front and S20v4s in back, and (IMO) their indirect-radiating configuration was perfect for side-surround duty.

what happened to your 590s? yeah the dipole positing is side surround. beside or a wee bit behind the main listening position.. Paradigm recommends this speakers for rear surrounds as well..

placement of the sides should be 6 to 9 feet off the floor.. but they dont recommend a hieght for the backs..

also they didnt mention how far below the ceiling in placement any idea's on that? i saw rico's pics is right at the ceiling but would maybe be a bit better a ft below or so the ceiling?

cheers
post #26746 of 30073
oh yeah on the adp 590s..

how much room is in the back for wire termination is it indented at all so it goes flush to the wall? im building my room and putting in in wall cabling so the position of speakers etc all has to be pre
determined..

have a good wknd
post #26747 of 30073
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

what happened to your 590s? yeah the dipole positing is side surround. beside or a wee bit behind the main listening position.. Paradigm recommends this speakers for rear surrounds as well..

placement of the sides should be 6 to 9 feet off the floor.. but they dont recommend a hieght for the backs..

also they didnt mention how far below the ceiling in placement any idea's on that? i saw rico's pics is right at the ceiling but would maybe be a bit better a ft below or so the ceiling?

cheers

I don't have much of a choice since my ceilings are pretty low anyway. And I can't put the right side surround any lower - - you'd hit your head going into the downstairs office!

But if you notice in theaters - - they are up quite high. I think Monopoles are best for the surround back speakers - IMHO. It's a great combination.
post #26748 of 30073
Quote:
yeah the dipole positing is side surround. beside or a wee bit behind the main listening position..
Yup, which is why my situation wasn't ideal.
Quote:
placement of the sides should be 6 to 9 feet off the floor.. but they dont recommend a hieght for the backs..

also they didnt mention how far below the ceiling in placement any idea's on that? i saw rico's pics is right at the ceiling but would maybe be a bit better a ft below or so the ceiling?
I'd put the surrounds not much higher than 6' off the ground (IMO and YMMV), but if you have to put them higher, well, that just reality taking precedence over "ideality".
Quote:
how much room is in the back for wire termination is it indented at all so it goes flush to the wall?
There's enough room to fit at least 12ga. wire + banana plugs.
Edited by eljaycanuck - 2/22/13 at 7:48pm
post #26749 of 30073
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

I'd put the surrounds not much higher than 6' off the ground (IMO and YMMV), but if you have to put them higher, well, that just reality taking precedence over "ideality"

When I was setting up my system, this was just a few years ago, I found a document on the Dolby website about a possible suggested rear placement. It recommended 5-6 ft off the ground if you had monopoles. I have tried this in a "short" room and it works well. When you cannot go back far enough and if the rears are only 3 ft off the ground, the person on the other side of the rear channel that is firing can barely notice it (due to the couch height). Of course, when you go the Dolby site today and click on 5.1, it suggest ear height in the rears.

I would try it 5 ft off the ground, angle them inwards. For monopoles, this should give good results. If your room is short, there is nothing you can do. Either you have it 3 ft off the ground, but I would suggest 5-6ft so the other side of the couch hear the effects as well.
Edited by bowmah - 2/22/13 at 3:25pm
post #26750 of 30073
I had my 590s roughly 60" off the ground and I got great sound from them at that height. My Studio 20s are on half-walls ~36" tall, and while they could be a little higher up - given that my ears are ~39-40" off the ground when seated and reclined - I'm happy with the sound quality and directionality I get from them.

As always, YMMV. smile.gif
post #26751 of 30073
Sitting back with a beer or two enjoying some smooth jazz with my monitor 9's V6 in pure direct mode with my Yamaha 2010. Gotta love this stuff!!!!!!
post #26752 of 30073
Quote:
Originally Posted by coresare View Post

So I have the studio 100's on order and hopefully arrives tomorrow. I'd like to complete the set when I save enough starting with the sub 12 and then the cc 690.

My question is regarding the surrounds. Paradigm websites suggest the ADP 590 ($640/ea per quick google). How would this compare to the studio 10 ($400/ea per quick google). They are both roughly the same size (although different general shape) and weight, 17 vs 18 lbs. The studio 10's look a lot better and have the matching appearance of the rest of the set. How do you aim the ADP's?? It has a strange shape. Are the left and right mirrors of each other?

Are surrounds designed differently to play a certain way, if so what?

Thanks in advance.

wow that sure is a cheap price for the adp 590... i went to the audio store this evening wow could not believe the price he quoted me 1650 a pair..

ouch..

might as well get 5 studio 60s.. 1100 each..

i wonder if where you got that quote from is an authorized dealer?

cheers
post #26753 of 30073
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

wow that sure is a cheap price for the adp 590... i went to the audio store this evening wow could not believe the price he quoted me 1650 a pair..

ouch..

might as well get 5 studio 60s.. 1100 each..

i wonder if where you got that quote from is an authorized dealer?

cheers

Saw it here. Just searched adp 590 price.

http://www.newaudiovideo.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=35_30_427&products_id=9298
post #26754 of 30073
Hmmm...
- Their regular price is $200 less than what authorized Paradigm dealers are showing.
- Paradigm doesn't list them as an authorized dealer.
- They have no information on many of their pages, including "Authentic [sic] Dealer", "About Us", "Online Security", etc.

But at least they do "accept all major creadit carts". rolleyes.gif

I'd pass on this place...
post #26755 of 30073
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowmah View Post

When I was setting up my system, this was just a few years ago, I found a document on the Dolby website about a possible suggested rear placement. It recommended 5-6 ft off the ground if you had monopoles. I have tried this in a "short" room and it works well. When you cannot go back far enough and if the rears are only 3 ft off the ground, the person on the other side of the rear channel that is firing can barely notice it (due to the couch height). Of course, when you go the Dolby site today and click on 5.1, it suggest ear height in the rears.

I would try it 5 ft off the ground, angle them inwards. For monopoles, this should give good results. If your room is short, there is nothing you can do. Either you have it 3 ft off the ground, but I would suggest 5-6f...

All great information on proper speaker placement. I think the best advice I can share with my experience with these dipole speakers is that even if you have constraints in your room - i.e. speaker postioning, low ceilings and not a lot of clearance - the Paradigm ADP 590's can still provide for a wonderful listening envronment. My previous monopole side surrounds were a little bit lower - - maybe more optimal as far as recommended height goes - - but due to the proximity of my listening position to my side surrounds, monopole placement made them really stand out - - very noticeable on special effects and discrete sounds.

The ADP 590 dipoles - even placed higher than optimal height due to my low ceiling "man cave" restrictions - - still provide a better listening envrionment with a more diffuse, wider soundstage that fills the room with rich sound that is fully integrated with my other matching Paradigm speakers. I believe the combination of dipole as side surrounds in combination with monopole direct back surrounds provide for the optimal 7.1 setup. Are they the most optimal setup, speaker configuration wise (height/distance/room) that you can get? No, but they are the best that I can get for my Home Theater setup and I would encourage anyone else with a smaller room configuration like mine to see if they improve their listening experience. After all, that's what it's all about!
post #26756 of 30073
What are the pros and cons of authorized and nonauthorized dealers?
post #26757 of 30073
Quote:
What are the pros and cons of authorized and nonauthorized dealers?
Warranty. Paradigm does not honour warranty on products purchased through non-authorized (or even non-authentic) dealers.

Warranties are also non-transferrable, so if you buy gently-used that has some warranty left on it, you don't get to take advantage of it.
post #26758 of 30073
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Warranty. Paradigm does not honour warranty on products purchased through non-authorized (or even non-authentic) dealers.

Warranties are also non-transferrable, so if you buy gently-used that has some warranty left on it, you don't get to take advantage of it.
What is the warranty on paradigm studios?
post #26759 of 30073
Quote:
What is the warranty on paradigm studios?
According to Paradigm.com/Warranty:
Quote:
Bookshelf, floor standing and in wall speakers is five (5) years
Powered Subwoofers is three (3) years
post #26760 of 30073
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

According to Paradigm.com/Warranty:
Thanks, guess I could've looked that up myself...but you did such a good job smile.gif
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