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Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 917

post #27481 of 30070
You guys are correct. I deleted my posts and would rather keep this on Paradigm. I knew I shouldn't have got involved. Sorry:o
post #27482 of 30070
Why not start a thread in the "Receivers, Amps, and Processors" forum instead and post a link to it here if you want advice from Paradigm owners?

Just a suggestion smile.gif
Edited by Badouri - 4/8/13 at 4:38am
post #27483 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badouri View Post

Why not start a thread in the "Receivers, Amps, and Processors" forum instead and post a link to it here if you want advice from Paradigm owners?

Just a suggestion smile.gif
+1
post #27484 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

My data was taken from Yamaha documentation that is online:
http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=en&site=usa.yamaha.com&asset_id=46217
page 69

But of course Yamaha is lying. ;-)
You should read what you linked to. They only specify 4 ohm wattage outputs, but they do not rec'd anyone use it with a 4Ω load or a 2Ω load.

From page 10 of your link: This unit is configured for 8Ω speakers when it is dispatched from the factory,
When connecting to 6Ω speakers, carry out the following procedure to switch to 6Ω.


Therefore they DO NOT rec'd this unit be used with a 4 ohm load (much less a 2 ohm load), so NO, Yamaha is NOT lying.
Edited by SimpleTheater - 4/8/13 at 5:31am
post #27485 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badouri View Post

Why not start a thread in the "Receivers, Amps, and Processors" forum instead and post a link to it here if you want advice from Paradigm owners?

Just a suggestion smile.gif

Personally, I find this discussion to be both interesting and germane. ..Those who do not can always peruse the other 900 pages of posts in this sub-forum, rather than attempt to micro-manage the discussion.
post #27486 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

My data was taken from Yamaha documentation that is online:
http://download.yamaha.com/api/asset/file/?language=en&site=usa.yamaha.com&asset_id=46217
page 69

But of course Yamaha is lying. ;-)
You should read what you linked to. They only specify 4 ohm wattage outputs, but they do not rec'd anyone use it with a 4Ω load or a 2Ω load.

From page 10 of your link: This unit is configured for 8Ω speakers when it is dispatched from the factory,
When connecting to 6Ω speakers, carry out the following procedure to switch to 6Ω.


Therefore they DO NOT rec'd this unit be used with a 4 ohm load (much less a 2 ohm load), so NO, Yamaha is NOT lying.

Interesting that after all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth about real world experience, I provide some and now it ain't worth a #@!!.

Let me repeat it for the attention deficit ones out there.

Re-iterating and clarifying http://www.avsforum.com/t/559431/paradigm-owners-thread/27480#post_23177158

I took a pair of speakers with approximately this impedance curve:



(clearly goes well below 4 ohms in both the bass and the treble)

and attached it to a Pioneer RX-V371 AVR that is set for the default 8 ohm speakers using about 6 feet of 12 gauge speaker cable, and flogged it energetically. Sounded great and nothing broke.

I then even had a little accident where someone got confused by the volume and mute buttons on the remote, and played a Blu-Ray disc at blasting SPL's and lots of clipping.

When our ears recovered both the AVR and the speakers still sounded great and nothing broke.

I might add that if I had a megawatt amp, it seems like I might have fried the speakers with that little accident the old fashioned way - just applied way too much power.
post #27487 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post

I don't know anything about the in-wall speakers, but I do know the general consensus regarding timbre-matching is that it is most critical for the front 3 channels (left, centre, right). So, if these are already well matched in your system, I would think that just about any Studio series speaker will blend well enough for surround duty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

The problem is the near future and the fact that things are changing in the industry and will soon show up in consumer gear as they transition to UHD media. Some people do not know that soundtracks are starting to be mixed differently than before using object-oriented rendering. The requirements for surround speakers are more rigorous with these formats. For one thing, the lower frequency response will be greater than normal (usually hover around 80 Hz as a limit currently... but the surround effects will be full frequency), and because spatial cues are embedded, dipole surrounds may not work (might muck up these new directional mixing cues already in the soundtrack). Multiple, timbre matched monopoles will be the new norm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

I have the Studio 60's V.2 - - great speakers! I have matched them with the Studio CC690 V5 (Center) and two Studio ADP590's - - not it wall, but placed up higher for Rear Side Surrounds. The only speakers that are not matching is my Sub (Velodyne) and rear back surrounds - - Orb Mod2's (not a lot of room in the back of my Home Theater setup.)

I looked at the Paradigm web site and they do have "In Wall" speakers. But I do not know which ones match the best for the Studio 60's. Maybe you could call/Email Paradigm and see what they recommend?

If you can swing it - - the bi-polar ADP590's are a great speaker for surround effects. Otherwise - - "In Wall" side surrounds at listening level would be very cool.

(P.S. - if you can find matching "In Wall" speakers - - if they are all the same - - Rear Side Surround and Rear Back Surround) - - that would be optimal for a 7.1 setup.)


Thank you for the replies.

My front three are timber matched, so I am glad that's the most important.

I am not planning to get dipoles. But I will check and make sure the in walls can handle as low a frequency as possible. Very lows should be non-directional I will sent to the sub any ways (hope i am correct here).

It is a good idea to call them. I cannot put the surrounds at listening level unfrtunatley. Hoping the angled tweeter would help some what?
post #27488 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Interesting that after all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth about real world experience, I provide some and now it ain't worth a #@!!.
1. I never asked you for real world experience.
2. If the manufacturer doesn't rec'd use below 6Ω, why would I listen to some guy on the Internet. Remember, Yamaha WANTS to sell as many units as they can, and if they could say "Use our amps with any load from 2Ω - 8Ω", they would be increasing sales - and thus make more profit. The fact that they do not say this speaks worlds about how their low end AVRs should be used.

You specifically stated the following:
I showed that even low end AVRs are rated for 2 ohm loads.

I responded:
if anyone actually believes this I suggest you contact ANY of the major AVR manufacturers, tell them you are going to hook up a 4ohm speaker and ask if their AVR can handle the load. I did this years ago when I was about to buy some Totem Dreamcatchers and Onkyo, Denon and Yamaha all responded back that none of their sub $1,000 AVR's were recommended for that load. This statement from Arnyk is complete hogwash.

You replied:
That was years ago according to your own words. You want us to believe that there is no such thing as technological progress, no?
My data was taken from Yamaha documentation that is online:


I unequivocally proved that Yamaha does NOT rec'd their low end AVRs to be used with 4Ω loads, much less a 2Ω load.

If I were a lawyer I'd say "I rest my case."
post #27489 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Interesting that after all of the wailing and gnashing of teeth about real world experience, I provide some and now it ain't worth a #@!!.

1. I never asked you for real world experience.

It seems quite clear that you want to discount any evidence that says something that you don't want to hear. Please see your abandonment of good logic and rhetoric below.
Quote:
I unequivocally proved that Yamaha does NOT rec'd their low end AVRs to be used with 4Ω loads, much less a 2Ω load.

No you didn't. What you did do is quote a procedure for setting the AVR up for bench testing with 6 ohm resistive loads, and steady sine wave test tones. Y

You reached the conclusion abut 4 ohm loads all by yourself and in total disagreement with the document you cited, which gives a power rating for 2 and 4 ohm loads.

Again, you appear to be showing how willing you are to engage in pretzel logic to prove yourself right.

I backed my opinion up with actual real world use and real world experiences. Theory = practice.
post #27490 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

You reached the conclusion abut 4 ohm loads all by yourself and in total disagreement with the document you cited, which gives a power rating for 2 and 4 ohm loads.

Again, you appear to be showing how willing you are to engage in pretzel logic to prove yourself right.
I contacted Yamaha. They said "Do not use this AVR with a 4 Ω load.

Not sure what more "proof" you want.

In the FAQ's for the 501 (they don't have any FAQ's for their 300 series), it says:
Why does my unit shut off at 1/4 volume or less ?
Other problems which might cause premature shut off can include using speakers with impedance of less than 4 ohms, speaker selector boxes with multiple pairs of speakers connected to one terminal, an internal problem with the receiver, or a problem with a source component.

http://faq.yamaha.com/us/en/article/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/r-v501/1006/2438/Why_does_my_unit_shut_off_at_1-4_volume_or_less_/?current_page_id=1&sort=undefined&type=
Edited by SimpleTheater - 4/8/13 at 7:45am
post #27491 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by syd123 View Post

Personally, I find this discussion to be both interesting and germane. ..Those who do not can always peruse the other 900 pages of posts in this sub-forum, rather than attempt to micro-manage the discussion.

My apologies
post #27492 of 30070
If I heard my 3yr old bickering like this, I'd give her a time-out, except she would have the sense to stop when I ask her to do so.
post #27493 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post

If I heard my 3yr old bickering like this, I'd give her a time-out, except she would have the sense to stop when I ask her to do so.

I'm only responding to a fraction of the posts directed my way.

Your ad hominem attacks pretty well position you in this discussion, and I don't mean this in a good way.
post #27494 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

You reached the conclusion abut 4 ohm loads all by yourself and in total disagreement with the document you cited, which gives a power rating for 2 and 4 ohm loads.

Again, you appear to be showing how willing you are to engage in pretzel logic to prove yourself right.
I contacted Yamaha. They said "Do not use this AVR with a 4 Ω load.

Not sure what more "proof" you want.

OK, you are able to either bully or misquote some poor tech support person, just like you have been trying to pull here again and again. Have a nice day!
post #27495 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by syd123 View Post

Personally, I find this discussion to be both interesting and germane. ..Those who do not can always peruse the other 900 pages of posts in this sub-forum, rather than attempt to micro-manage the discussion.
I'm done as well. Lets get back to Paradigm.
post #27496 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by BestInTheWorld View Post

I am currently in the market for either a pair of Atoms or SE 1's. I listen to music daily and am watching movies less and less each week. I have only watched 2 movies within 30 days, and likely can watch 2-4 in a given month. Any recommendations? I know with either pair I will buy a decent sub for low end, and so the SE 1's amazing low end freq as stated in reviews is less important now.

I do however, like the look of the SE's more especially in rosenut

I went from v5 Atoms to SE1's about a year and a half ago. I posted my opinion HERE if you're interested. There's no mention of "da power" debate anywhere in it. It's just an opinion of Paradigm speakers so it may be a refreshing read. wink.gif

I still have the SE1's and I don't think I'd upgrade unless I could move up to the Studio floorstanders...which I don't have room for. Good luck.
post #27497 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by syd123 View Post

Personally, I find this discussion to be both interesting and germane. ..Those who do not can always peruse the other 900 pages of posts in this sub-forum, rather than attempt to micro-manage the discussion.

Many of us don't share your opinion of this discussion, and several of those that do would still agree that this thread is not the appropriate place for it.

I'm sure you'd find this discussion equally interesting if it were taking place in an appropriate thread, and it wouldn't be bothering those of us who wish to keep this thread on it's intended topic.
post #27498 of 30070
post #27499 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

Audioholics article on receivers and impedance: http://www.audioholics.com/education/amplifier-technology/impedance-selector-switch-1

Just for grins:

"NOTE: Some Receivers have an impedance selector switch. In most cases we recommend the 8-ohm or more setting. The manufacturer puts them there for UL/CSA approvals as well as easing consumer concerns about driving low impedance loads. These switches step down voltage feed to the power sections which will limit dynamics and overall fidelity. Keep the switch set for 8 ohms regardless of the impedance of your speakers and ensure proper ventilation of the Receiver."

and

"You are usually safe running these(4 ohm) speakers on the Flagship Receiver models from: {Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo, Harman Kardon, NAD, Nakamichi)."
post #27500 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcarfan View Post



Thank you for the replies.

My front three are timber matched, so I am glad that's the most important.

I am not planning to get dipoles. But I will check and make sure the in walls can handle as low a frequency as possible. Very lows should be non-directional I will sent to the sub any ways (hope i am correct here).

It is a good idea to call them. I cannot put the surrounds at listening level unfrtunatley. Hoping the angled tweeter would help some what?

Interesting comments on Dipoles. If that's true - - then most of the movie theaters around the country will have to switch out their speakers to "direct firing" monopoles.

Personally - - I like the diffuse sound from the Dipoles (ADP590's). I had it both ways - - Monopoles before and it seemed to be shooting audio on 7.1 soundtracks. Now, I can clearly hear my rear back surrounds (monopole) and the Dipoles add a larger, enveloping soundstage. To each his own and it sounds like this isn't doable with your configuration anyway. So - - I'd check with Paradigm. And, quite frankly, if they really don't recommend any of their in wall speakers (doubtful!) - - ask them what to look for in an "in wall" speaker - - spec wise. You might be able to get a better deal on speakers that fit your room better that are the same make/model. If you match all four - - you should be good to go. Remember - -for movies - - 70 to 75 percent of the sound is through the center channel with SFX (sub and surrounds).

Angled speakers will help - - it sounds like you have to set them up high. Most of the bass in soundtracks goes to your sub - - where it should be. Even though I have a beast of a center (Studio CC690) - I have it set on "Small" - - 80hz crossover. I tried it both ways - - I set it to large, but quite frankly didn't like that much bass coming from the center as I use my HT for movies & sports, primarily. I like a real, clear center channel for dialogue.

My ADP590's can handle bass - - but again, they are set to small and the only folks I know that set everything to "Large" - - are five or seven identical speakers with separates (amplifiers - be all, end all) - - but that's a little out of my price range!

Hope this helps. Sounds like fun! Let us know when you get everything installed and how it sounds.
post #27501 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcarfan View Post



Thank you for the replies.

My front three are timber matched, so I am glad that's the most important.

I am not planning to get dipoles. But I will check and make sure the in walls can handle as low a frequency as possible. Very lows should be non-directional I will sent to the sub any ways (hope i am correct here).

It is a good idea to call them. I cannot put the surrounds at listening level unfrtunatley. Hoping the angled tweeter would help some what?

I absolutely love my dipole SA-ADP in-wall's. I'm using them with Studio center and fronts. As long as they're going on the side of the listener and not the rear they're awesome.
post #27502 of 30070
What are the most important differences ( in ht and in music) between paradigm monitor 9 and 11 series 7 ? thanks
post #27503 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

Anyone able to give their impressions for the studio 100 vs Kef R700?
Anyone?
post #27504 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

Anyone able to give their impressions for the studio 100 vs Kef R700?
I would be interested in knowing about this too. Maybe its better to start a thread for this question, if theres not already one out there.
post #27505 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by enthusiast8 View Post

I would be interested in knowing about this too. Maybe its better to start a thread for this question, if theres not already one out there.
Well, I posted it in the Kef thread too and haven't gotten a response there either. I did get a PM comparing the studio 60s to them which said he thought the 60s sounded a little thin in comparison. But I'm looking specifically for comparison with the 100s since they had the fuller sound over the 60s which I liked. Also started a thread about my ongoing search for some full range towers if anyone has anything they could add. Hasn't gotten much traffic though. Thanks!
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1466750/full-range-towers-wanted#post_23171876
post #27506 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

Well, I posted it in the Kef thread too and haven't gotten a response there either. I did get a PM comparing the studio 60s to them which said he thought the 60s sounded a little thin in comparison. But I'm looking specifically for comparison with the 100s since they had the fuller sound over the 60s which I liked. Also started a thread about my ongoing search for some full range towers if anyone has anything they could add. Hasn't gotten much traffic though. Thanks!
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1466750/full-range-towers-wanted#post_23171876
Have you checked this thread. The OP had some good choices he was considering.
Have you considered used?
post #27507 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by enthusiast8 View Post

I would be interested in knowing about this too. Maybe its better to start a thread for this question, if theres not already one out there.
Well, I posted it in the Kef thread too and haven't gotten a response there either. I did get a PM comparing the studio 60s to them which said he thought the 60s sounded a little thin in comparison. But I'm looking specifically for comparison with the 100s since they had the fuller sound over the 60s which I liked. Also started a thread about my ongoing search for some full range towers if anyone has anything they could add. Hasn't gotten much traffic though. Thanks!
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1466750/full-range-towers-wanted#post_23171876

love the 100s... lots of deep bass.. which the kef dont have from the specs... only real way to compare is side by side....

cheers
post #27508 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by enthusiast8 View Post

Have you checked this thread. The OP had some good choices he was considering.
Have you considered used?
Yeah NHTB was the one I talked to. I followed his quest closely since mine is very similar.
post #27509 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleTheater View Post

Note to anyone not named deltatube or Arnyk: Ask yourself if either of these two people are willing to cover your warranty? Then ask yourself who IS backing up their products with their hard earned dollars. So if you are not an electrical engineer and can't figure out if a over powered amp or an under powered amp will damage your speakers, it's a good bet that the people who DO NOT want to see their product returned and get branded as a company that makes junk should be the one's you listen to.

PREVENTING SPEAKER DAMAGE FROM PARADIGM OWNERS MANUAL

you can down load it here..



http://www.paradigm.com/products/products-by-category/floorstanding/paradigm-reference/studio-series/studio-100

the basics

A power range rating is given as a guide to indicat the approximate minimum and maximum power input of
you paradigm speakers.. Amplifiers that EXCEED YOUR SPEAKER'S power range rating are RECOMMENDED
their greater power reserves provide better sound. however, exercise caution! use the speakers within their
power range rating to prevent damage ( keep listening levels below the point of excessive woofer cone
excursion).

The above text violates several audio engineering principles. It looks to me like it is written by the marketing department of a manufacturer of power amps which Paradigm is.

it dont violate anything .. in paradigm's recommendation on how to get better sound quality.. but maybe it does violate you and your thinking cause you think your smart than paradigm!

i love the sound quality improvements on my 100s with my amp... massive night and day difference.. if you want the best sound you need da power paradigm says so!!!!!!

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
post #27510 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

if you want to be the best, you need da power of the dark side!

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

Now we're talking
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