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Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 930

post #27871 of 30056
I am also going to suggest getting the CC-690 and they will pair very well with either the Studio 60s or 100s if you decide to go that route. Are you listening to more music or movies and what is the size of the room? In most cases your SVS SB-1000 should be fine for music but if you have a big room and like bass in your movies get the PB-13 Ultra and call it a day. You will be happy you did it right on the front end. I see many people go back and take a loss on equipment just to upgrade to what they should have got the first time. The only must have here would be the CC-690, it is way better than the CC-590.

As far as the receiver is concerned, I think the AVR-4520 might be an area to save a little. I went with the older 4308 back in 2008 when I bought it and decided to turn it into a pre amp and used both triggers to power an XPA-2 and XPA-3. now an XPR-5 would be a mighty fine treat.
post #27872 of 30056
Quote:
Originally Posted by coresare View Post

The ADP 590 are supposed to be 6-9 feet high if on the sides per my manual.

hey Coresare.. glade you posted that ... thought i was the only one to think high!!!

cheers..
post #27873 of 30056
Quote:
Originally Posted by mroehricht View Post

Hi Everyone. I am in the market for a home theater system and have listened to many vendors in the $8000 range for the 5.1 setup plus AVR. The paradigms sound the best to me so far. I am going with the Studio 60s, CC590 and ADP590s for the 5.0 setup.

For the sub, I am not sure. The system aligns well with the Monitor Sub 10 or 12 but I already have a SVS SB-1000. Should I just keep that one vs. getting the other one?

I am Denon fan and am thinking about getting the AVR-4520 but the sales guy recommended a Pioneer Elite SC65 at half the price instead.

What do you guys think on the items I need help with?

Thanks...

how big is your ht room?...

do you listen to music as well as watch movies?

for a 1/3 more i would go studio 100s but the 60s are good.. and the cc 690.. adp 590s like em hey thats what i have ..

the avr 4520 is a good but expensive.. the xt 32 and the 9.2 channels is great.. but your only 5.1 keep your sub and add more SVS later.. i like the cylinders...

to save a bit i would look around and learn about separates.. im running a denon 3313 with emotiva amp xpa 3 .... want to add mono blocks for stereo..
nexts avr will be separate componets.. you could look around for a 4311 to save cash or start learning about separate... take a peak at the emotiva separates..

think your looking at some good quality speakers...

cheers..
post #27874 of 30056
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Seven View Post

Hi and thank you.

I ended up with the Wyred4Sound 250 w 2 channel amp. It got great reviews and the footprint is rather small. I also had it upgraded so it was a tad pricey. Here is the link...

http://www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/p/74030/117839/332077

At least external amps are not slaves to the latest tech changes like codecs and such so it is one that conceivably will last for the remainder of my lifetime.

Hi Gary you da man with da power 250 into 8 and 550 into 4 ohms nice..

those 100s must sing nice ...

im running an xpa 3 200 300 8 4 off a denon 3313.. looking to add some mono blocks to the 100s.. moving the xpa 3 to the center and surrounds..

got my eye on the new xpa 1Ls for the stereo playing mainly..

ive only had my speakers for 2 months they are sounding great... biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

just cranking up the blues breakers...

cheers..
post #27875 of 30056
Thanks guys. I'll listen to the 690 next week when I am going back to the store to place the entire order. What do you guys think about the Pioneer AVR that I was suggested to get by the dealer instead of the Denon line? I have a 2312ci right now but will be using it for a different room. Do I really need separate amps? My room is wood flooring, 18 width, 24 length and 18 height (vaulted). Distance to 60" TV from main listening position about 10 feet at center of room. 50/50 music and HT
post #27876 of 30056
Quote:
Originally Posted by mroehricht View Post

Thanks guys. I'll listen to the 690 next week when I am going back to the store to place the entire order. What do you guys think about the Pioneer AVR that I was suggested to get by the dealer instead of the Denon line? I have a 2312ci right now but will be using it for a different room. Do I really need separate amps? My room is wood flooring, 18 width, 24 length and 18 height (vaulted). Distance to 60" TV from main listening position about 10 feet at center of room. 50/50 music and HT

Between those two receivers of go with the 4250 mainly because of the XT32. It really is amazing.
post #27877 of 30056
I like the 4250 but man that Marantz 8801 is a pretty sweat set up if you just need a pre amp.
post #27878 of 30056
Quote:
Originally Posted by mroehricht View Post

For the sub, I am not sure. The system aligns well with the Monitor Sub 10 or 12 but I already have a SVS SB-1000. Should I just keep that one vs. getting the other one?

SVS makes better subs per-dollar than paradigm. Two subs are also better than one: so I would keep the existing unit or augment it with a second SVS/Rythmik/etc.
Quote:
I am Denon fan and am thinking about getting the AVR-4520 but the sales guy recommended a Pioneer Elite SC65 at half the price instead.
I am of the position that, within well-made brands (both of the above are), you buy an AVR based on price and features.
post #27879 of 30056
@JerryLove - Thanks for the guidance. I am going to buy the Pioneer Elite SC-68. It has some futures that I like that the Denon doesn't have and its version of Audyssey (forgot the name) seems to be solid. For the sub, should I just add one more of the same SVS PB-1000s or get a different additional sub? Worried about subs not pairing well.
post #27880 of 30056
Pioneer Elite SC65 does not use Audyssey, they use their own proprietary MCACC
post #27881 of 30056
Quote:
Originally Posted by mroehricht View Post

Thanks guys. I'll listen to the 690 next week when I am going back to the store to place the entire order. What do you guys think about the Pioneer AVR that I was suggested to get by the dealer instead of the Denon line? I have a 2312ci right now but will be using it for a different room. Do I really need separate amps? My room is wood flooring, 18 width, 24 length and 18 height (vaulted). Distance to 60" TV from main listening position about 10 feet at center of room. 50/50 music and HT

thats a big room to fill.. .. center of room is the worst place to sit by the way.... go to .618 or .382... but .5 is very bad... ethan winer...

get the 100s for that size room...

i would strongly look at the denon 4311 xt32 9.2 channel and alot cheaper...

svs ultra subs x2 for you.. cylinder or box i still like cylinders.. there are cool..

room treatments are more important than room correction!

with that size room you cant go wrong with external amps do you like to crank up the music...??

enjoy..
post #27882 of 30056
Quote:
Originally Posted by mroehricht View Post

@JerryLove - Thanks for the guidance. I am going to buy the Pioneer Elite SC-68. It has some futures that I like that the Denon doesn't have and its version of Audyssey (forgot the name) seems to be solid.
Audessy vs MCACC is certainly a feature to consider.
Quote:
For the sub, should I just add one more of the same SVS PB-1000s or get a different additional sub? Worried about subs not pairing well.
That would depend on your budget. There's certainly an argument that moving to 3 or even 4 identical subs will keep simplicity while improving sound over a lesser number of different subs.

I suspect SVS's customer service would be happy to make suggestions there. I personally like to match: but I think that's more an OCD trait than auditory need.
post #27883 of 30056
You should consider the new line of Denon receivers, specially the top of the line X4000.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/denon-avr-x3000-x4000-pre
post #27884 of 30056
@centauro74 - The x4000 seems like a no-brainer at this price and the latest technologies. Wonder how they can justify the 4520 at double the price?
post #27885 of 30056
Diminishing returns, it defines our hobby.
post #27886 of 30056
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

Diminishing returns, it defines our hobby.
Brilliantly succinct
post #27887 of 30056
That is awesome news! I've been waiting for a cheaper alternative that still provides Audysdey XT32 and Sub EQ HT.
post #27888 of 30056
+1 Very good choice for the money. biggrin.gif
post #27889 of 30056
Quote:
Originally Posted by mroehricht View Post

@centauro74 - The x4000 seems like a no-brainer at this price and the latest technologies. Wonder how they can justify the 4520 at double the price?

well you have to waite for the 4725 LOL

cheers
post #27890 of 30056
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post

That is awesome news! I've been waiting for a cheaper alternative that still provides Audysdey XT32 and Sub EQ HT.

whats the news?
post #27891 of 30056
The x4000 has 3 HDMI outs and can send digital to the 2nd and 3rd zone.
post #27892 of 30056
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

whats the news?

See the link in post 27891.

New Denon receivers. One featuring Audyssey MultEQ XT32 with Sub EQ HT, for $1299 MSRP. A much lower price point than any of their previous gear that carried these features.

Just what I've been looking for . . .
post #27893 of 30056
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

whats the news?

See the link in post 27891.

New Denon receivers. One featuring Audyssey MultEQ XT32 with Sub EQ HT, for $1299 MSRP. A much lower price point than any of their previous gear that carried these features.

Just what I've been looking for . . .

does sound good .. these avrs weigh less that last yrs models.. get external amps with em.. but the rest sounds really good..

cheers.
post #27894 of 30056
Hey guys,

Just listed my 10/10 condition Paradigm Cinema 100 CT 5.1 setup in the classified section HERE
post #27895 of 30056
And what many of us don't realize until we hear it, is that clean undistorted loud sound often does not sound that "loud." The key here is that in most or our home listening, there are small amounts of distortion caused by a lack of dynamic headroom (but more on that next month). It's the distortion that makes it sound "loud" in a domestic setting. To remove those distortions and increase dynamic headroom relates to even more power. We've become accustomed to accepting some distortion with our reproduced music, because all amplifier's distortion ratings gradually increase as they approach their output limits or slightly clip the audio signals. When that happens, we turn down the volume, because distortion starts to intrude on our listening pleasure, and it sounds "too loud."

The lesson in all this is that you can never have too much power, and that big amplifiers rarely damage speakers. Little amplifiers driven into clipping burn out speakers. In the scheme of high fidelity, that last barrier to realism is having enough power and being able to approximate real-life loudness levels.


never have to much Da Power eh!

cheers..

http://www.axiomaudio.com/power
post #27896 of 30056
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

And what many of us don't realize until we hear it, is that clean undistorted loud sound often does not sound that "loud." The key here is that in most or our home listening, there are small amounts of distortion caused by a lack of dynamic headroom (but more on that next month). It's the distortion that makes it sound "loud" in a domestic setting. To remove those distortions and increase dynamic headroom relates to even more power. We've become accustomed to accepting some distortion with our reproduced music, because all amplifier's distortion ratings gradually increase as they approach their output limits or slightly clip the audio signals. When that happens, we turn down the volume, because distortion starts to intrude on our listening pleasure, and it sounds "too loud."

The lesson in all this is that you can never have too much power, and that big amplifiers rarely damage speakers. Little amplifiers driven into clipping burn out speakers. In the scheme of high fidelity, that last barrier to realism is having enough power and being able to approximate real-life loudness levels.


never have to much Da Power eh!

cheers..

http://www.axiomaudio.com/power

I just read this article yesterday .. pretty much useful ... smile.gif

Most of our receivers run out of fuel when the tracks reach the peak thresholds of explosions , impacts , accidents , and so on ..

should use a decent power amp .... especially with the giant speakers. ....
post #27897 of 30056
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodimus22 View Post

Hmm...let me measure and see exactly how high they are.

OK, here's what I came up with:

Ear level on my couch: 38"

Top of the speaker stand: 49"

Top of the speaker: 59"

Does that seem reasonable?

Sure... I mean of it sounds good to you. I think it depends on room and the kind of sound you are after. I looked at the manual and indeed saw the recommended placement. However, I hesitate to move the speakers that high as the other speakers are at a lower level. That would put the sound over me rather than "through" me. My setup resembles an "H" were you to draw a line between the 590s. Interesting though the manual seemed to assume the surrounds were for reverberation. In that case I can see the recommended location as being ideal however these days the discrete channels offer more than just reverberation effects.

In the end it is what is best for the individual.
post #27898 of 30056
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

Hi Gary you da man with da power 250 into 8 and 550 into 4 ohms nice..

those 100s must sing nice ...

im running an xpa 3 200 300 8 4 off a denon 3313.. looking to add some mono blocks to the 100s.. moving the xpa 3 to the center and surrounds..

got my eye on the new xpa 1Ls for the stereo playing mainly..

ive only had my speakers for 2 months they are sounding great... biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

just cranking up the blues breakers...

cheers..

Yes.. it made a significant improvement. I recommend it if economically feasible.
post #27899 of 30056
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

And what many of us don't realize until we hear it, is that clean undistorted loud sound often does not sound that "loud." The key here is that in most or our home listening, there are small amounts of distortion caused by a lack of dynamic headroom (but more on that next month). It's the distortion that makes it sound "loud" in a domestic setting. To remove those distortions and increase dynamic headroom relates to even more power. We've become accustomed to accepting some distortion with our reproduced music, because all amplifier's distortion ratings gradually increase as they approach their output limits or slightly clip the audio signals. When that happens, we turn down the volume, because distortion starts to intrude on our listening pleasure, and it sounds "too loud."

The lesson in all this is that you can never have too much power, and that big amplifiers rarely damage speakers. Little amplifiers driven into clipping burn out speakers. In the scheme of high fidelity, that last barrier to realism is having enough power and being able to approximate real-life loudness levels.


never have to much Da Power eh!

cheers..

http://www.axiomaudio.com/power
I hesitated to post before, but dude...enough is enough. You've made your point. But, I still have to tell you that too much power certainly can and does blow speakers. I've put amplifiers rated at double or more what a speaker can take (in active setups for that matter, so no x-over in between speaker and amplifier) and guess what, the poor little driver eventually dies. The amplifier never once clipped in its lifetime, but eventually something comes along that demands "da power" that the driver can't take and poof, it's dead. Drivers have power limits (and thermal limits) and pushed hard continuously they'll die.... So, yeah...put a 1000 watt monoblock on a bookshelf rated for 50 watts and see how long it lasts.

Point is, sure, I suppose you can never have enough power...and too much can't hurt if you're careful with your volume control, but if you're not, a big amplifier will blow the hell out of a speaker just as fast as a clipping little one if you ask it to. Difference is, with the big amplifier it may sound pretty clean right until the point it blows up, while a little one may start to distort and tell you to back off. Not to mention that if there are large dynamic swings, the big amplifier is likely to produce them cleanly, but deliver a crap ton of power and blow the driver, while the little amplifier may distort, but still not have enough clipped power to distort so much to drive it past its limits. For example, hook a 50 watt amplifier to a subwoofer capable of handling, saying, 1000 watts. It'll be nearly impossible to clip that 50 watt amplifier enough to ever blow that sub. Put a 2000 watt amplifier on that same sub and guess what'll happen the first time a dynamic swing comes through demands 2000 watts? Maybe it'll be the second, or third time, but sooner or later the driver will thermally overload (if it's not pushed past its excursion limits first)...and poof.

I guess what I'm saying is, you are wildly generalizing in every post you make about this. You are generalizing that everyone likes it really loud and therefore needs gobs of power. You are generalizing that the speakers are even rated for anywhere near the amplifier they may buy (1000 watt mono-block amplifer on, say, speakers rated for 60 watts), etc... You're basically saying, "overspend on the amplifier, it can't hurt". And sure, it can't...unless it does, lol. It can hurt your budget, and it certainly can still blow the speaker if you don't watch the volume knob.

At the end of the day, it's about balance here -- both in finding speakers that can play at your desired levels and then finding an amplifier that's big enough to get them there (and doing both as closely as possible without overspending).

So...please, can we stop beating this dead horse? It's starting to smell funny in here, lol.
Edited by DreamWarrior - 5/6/13 at 12:56pm
post #27900 of 30056
Great post, DreamWarrior. Very well put.
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