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Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 932

post #27931 of 30062
Hey I've got a problem I've raised before (but no takers: thought I'd try and get away from "da power"). Timbre matching across the fronts. I have Sig 8's with a Klipsch RC64 II center. Can anyone suggest tests that demonstrate the importance of matching? (I know people say it's important but if there is no way to demonstrate it ...)

On the possible "agree" side, I've noticed two films where mismatching may occur (given my system).

1. Avatar: they are in the forest, first drop, and testing for samples. As the camera swings away from the scientists to follow Jake, Sig Weaver says "You've contaminated the sample with your saliva". There is a difference in sound between when they are speaking centered and when it goes to the left speaker.

2. LOTR: Fellowship. Mines of Moria. Gandalf goes off to the right with "there are more dangerous things than orcs in the dark places of the earth". Again a sound difference.

These however may be sound encoding problems. Anyone with a timbre matched systems could check. I'd be interested ...


Going back to the opening paragraph .... any other tests? (Yeah and I've tried pink and white noise generators; my problem here is that I've noticed minor audible differences between my two Sig's at the same volume levels.). Any other real world (BD or DVD) tests?

Or is everyone exhausted by "da power" debate?
post #27932 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmorgus View Post

Hey I've got a problem I've raised before (but no takers: thought I'd try and get away from "da power"). Timbre matching across the fronts. I have Sig 8's with a Klipsch RC64 II center. Can anyone suggest tests that demonstrate the importance of matching? (I know people say it's important but if there is no way to demonstrate it ...)

On the possible "agree" side, I've noticed two films where mismatching may occur (given my system).

1. Avatar: they are in the forest, first drop, and testing for samples. As the camera swings away from the scientists to follow Jake, Sig Weaver says "You've contaminated the sample with your saliva". There is a difference in sound between when they are speaking centered and when it goes to the left speaker.

2. LOTR: Fellowship. Mines of Moria. Gandalf goes off to the right with "there are more dangerous things than orcs in the dark places of the earth". Again a sound difference.

These however may be sound encoding problems. Anyone with a timbre matched systems could check. I'd be interested ...


Going back to the opening paragraph .... any other tests? (Yeah and I've tried pink and white noise generators; my problem here is that I've noticed minor audible differences between my two Sig's at the same volume levels.). Any other real world (BD or DVD) tests?

Or is everyone exhausted by "da power" debate?

you want to timbre match

http://www.paradigm.com/products/products-by-category/center/signature/signature-series/signature-c5

problem solved!!!!

biggrin.gif

just add some powah!!!
post #27933 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post

*facepalm*
Indeed --

Troll: "Hey Dreamwarrior, you're crazy with your 250 watt amplifier and your blowing of da speakers -- stupid head, be careful, even Paradigm says so! Too much power can hurt your speakers."

Dreamwarrior (to himself): "Hey moron, I knew and acknowledged I'd be taking out drivers because I have too much power. But, I have the money to replace them, enjoy how they sound up to the point of elimination, and took the calculated risk. But, now I'm tired of it, mostly because I don't like waiting two (or more) weeks for replacements to show up. But, good to know you agree with me; too much power is useless and detrimental to your speakers."

Troll: "Hey, check out this 1k mono-block. Dreamwarrior's blowing his speakers on 250 watts, jump in his boat and start blowing yours too with 4 times da powah!"

Forum: *mass facepalm*
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmorgus View Post

Hey I've got a problem I've raised before (but no takers: thought I'd try and get away from "da power"). Timbre matching across the fronts. I have Sig 8's with a Klipsch RC64 II center. Can anyone suggest tests that demonstrate the importance of matching? (I know people say it's important but if there is no way to demonstrate it ...)

On the possible "agree" side, I've noticed two films where mismatching may occur (given my system).

1. Avatar: they are in the forest, first drop, and testing for samples. As the camera swings away from the scientists to follow Jake, Sig Weaver says "You've contaminated the sample with your saliva". There is a difference in sound between when they are speaking centered and when it goes to the left speaker.

2. LOTR: Fellowship. Mines of Moria. Gandalf goes off to the right with "there are more dangerous things than orcs in the dark places of the earth". Again a sound difference.

These however may be sound encoding problems. Anyone with a timbre matched systems could check. I'd be interested ...


Going back to the opening paragraph .... any other tests? (Yeah and I've tried pink and white noise generators; my problem here is that I've noticed minor audible differences between my two Sig's at the same volume levels.). Any other real world (BD or DVD) tests?

Or is everyone exhausted by "da power" debate?
The merits of timbre matching across the front are largely agreed upon. If you absolutely can't do it, *maybe* a little RoomEQ can help a bit, it tries to flatten out and level match each channel, so it'll adjust your differently manufactured center speaker differently than the other two. However, I have my doubts about its ability to reconcile the vast differences between a horn loaded set-up like the Klipsch and the Paradigms. Their dispersion patterns are so different and their voicing is considerably different...I just don't think it'll happen within the limits of what most RoomEQ can do.

Am I saying it'd be impossible to mix and match? I suppose not.... I mean, I guess in theory enough modification can make one speaker set-up sound like another.... But...you'll likely never change things like off-axis response and such. Of course, to be honest, that has nothing to do with timbre, and more to do with integrating the speaker into the room and with the other speakers.

Either way, it's easiest and arguably best to keep your front three matched as closely as possible. Failing to do so will cause issues like you're hearing, as dialog pans across a wide front stage, it'll sound awkward.

Oh, and just something to consider -- you could always try phantom center for now.... It may even perform better than having a different manufacturer's center in the mix. Those Sig 8's should be able to put together a nice center stage w/o actually having a center in there, provided they are setup well in the room. Of course, the trade is, the "optimal bubble" wherein that stage is good is smaller with phantom centers than with a properly integrated dedicated center.
post #27934 of 30062
Hey Guys, i have a question about rear speaker mounting. I have the Studio ADP-590 for my rears. In my living room, the rear wall is 18 feet long. I can only put the speakers on the rear wall. On that wall however, there are 2 windows. About 2-3 feet from the corner, the first window is there, about 2 feet wide, then just wall for another maybe 4-6 ft, then another window about 2 feet wide, then the rest of the wall, about 2-3 feet. The actual footage may be off, but that is the idea of the wall. The windows aren't too big, and the bigger space is in between the windows.

I can fit the rears either closer to the corner before the windows, or in between both windows, but as far as possible. My main listening position is in the middle of the room obviously. I do mostly blu-ray, tv, gaming etc. Where should i place my rears? I am thinking close to the corners may be too far apart, but in between the windows may be to close. Ideally, the speakers would probably go where the windows are, but that isn't possible.

Any guidance is appreciated.

Thanks!
post #27935 of 30062
Just add him to ignore.. its so much better to come back to this thread... it really should be about the speakers and not some troll.
Edited by richardfh - 5/7/13 at 3:04pm
post #27936 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardfh View Post

...and not some no life loser.

Now that was a little harsh.
post #27937 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post

I've never had any experience with Anthem receivers. My current receiver is the Denon 3808CI. It is the only real receiver (excluding HTiB crap) I've ever owned. I like it very much, and I really like Audyssey as well, so when looking for a replacement, I'm mostly looking at Denon or Marantz.

Anthem pre/pro's and amps have been highly regarded for years.....you know who their sister company is, right?

I have had Denon from day 1, moved to Marantz and stuck with them for quite a few years and then finally to an Anthem MRX300 after a glowing review by Darcy at KK's. Wow, he was right.
I havent heard a MultEQ XT or XT32 equipped receiver but I wouldnt settle for anything less than that. The X4000 I see only c/w MultEQ......packed with lots of features but lack of a higher end Audyssey software package is a bit of a disappointment.

Lemme know when you want to get together.....I like showing off my system.biggrin.gif
post #27938 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post

Hey Guys, i have a question about rear speaker mounting. I have the Studio ADP-590 for my rears. In my living room, the rear wall is 18 feet long. I can only put the speakers on the rear wall. On that wall however, there are 2 windows. About 2-3 feet from the corner, the first window is there, about 2 feet wide, then just wall for another maybe 4-6 ft, then another window about 2 feet wide, then the rest of the wall, about 2-3 feet. The actual footage may be off, but that is the idea of the wall. The windows aren't too big, and the bigger space is in between the windows.

I can fit the rears either closer to the corner before the windows, or in between both windows, but as far as possible. My main listening position is in the middle of the room obviously. I do mostly blu-ray, tv, gaming etc. Where should i place my rears? I am thinking close to the corners may be too far apart, but in between the windows may be to close. Ideally, the speakers would probably go where the windows are, but that isn't possible.

Any guidance is appreciated.

Thanks!

Try them on stands to see what sounds best....altho between the windows as far apart as possible would be more ideal as per Dolby standards.

What do you have for side surrounds?
post #27939 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosh70 View Post

The X4000 I see only c/w MultEQ......packed with lots of features but lack of a higher end Audyssey software package is a bit of a disappointment.

Lemme know when you want to get together.....I like showing off my system.biggrin.gif

The X4000 has XT32. That's why it will be in such high demand...XT32 at that price point hasn't happened yet (it also comes with Audyssey LFC).
post #27940 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by globalgreg View Post

The X4000 has XT32. That's why it will be in such high demand...XT32 at that price point hasn't happened yet (it also comes with Audyssey LFC).

Yup! biggrin.gif
post #27941 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post

Yup! biggrin.gif

I'll be selling my AV7005, I've already ordered an X4000 from Amazon. Now the waiting game...hate that.
post #27942 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosh70 View Post

Anthem pre/pro's and amps have been highly regarded for years.....you know who their sister company is, right?

I have had Denon from day 1, moved to Marantz and stuck with them for quite a few years and then finally to an Anthem MRX300 after a glowing review by Darcy at KK's. Wow, he was right.
I havent heard a MultEQ XT or XT32 equipped receiver but I wouldnt settle for anything less than that. The X4000 I see only c/w MultEQ......packed with lots of features but lack of a higher end Audyssey software package is a bit of a disappointment.

Lemme know when you want to get together.....I like showing off my system.biggrin.gif

Yup, I'm well aware that Anthem is Paradigm's sister company.

I think you're looking at the wrong model. The AVR-X4000 has all of the latest Audyssey goodies: MultEQ XT32, Sub EQ HT, LFC, Dynamic EQ, Dynamic Volume, and probably some others I'm forgetting.
post #27943 of 30062
I haven't heard ARC in action but read lots of reviews. From what I've read XT32 and ARC are neck and neck so it would probably come down to personal preference. Also ARC I believe gives you more options when it comes to making adjustments than XT32 unless you pay the extra for Audyssey Pro and a license. I've also read that Trinnov is on a different level so I would love to try it out. The sherwood R972 comes with Trinnov but after reading the owners thread I wasn't willing to take a chance on it. Seems they have had a lot of issues and the R972 is down to 599 on A4L now so I guess they are not very popular.
post #27944 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by globalgreg View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosh70 View Post

The X4000 I see only c/w MultEQ......packed with lots of features but lack of a higher end Audyssey software package is a bit of a disappointment.

Lemme know when you want to get together.....I like showing off my system.biggrin.gif

The X4000 has XT32. That's why it will be in such high demand...XT32 at that price point hasn't happened yet (it also comes with Audyssey LFC).

has sub eq tooo....

biggrin.gif
post #27945 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post

Hey Guys, i have a question about rear speaker mounting. I have the Studio ADP-590 for my rears. In my living room, the rear wall is 18 feet long. I can only put the speakers on the rear wall. On that wall however, there are 2 windows. About 2-3 feet from the corner, the first window is there, about 2 feet wide, then just wall for another maybe 4-6 ft, then another window about 2 feet wide, then the rest of the wall, about 2-3 feet. The actual footage may be off, but that is the idea of the wall. The windows aren't too big, and the bigger space is in between the windows.

I can fit the rears either closer to the corner before the windows, or in between both windows, but as far as possible. My main listening position is in the middle of the room obviously. I do mostly blu-ray, tv, gaming etc. Where should i place my rears? I am thinking close to the corners may be too far apart, but in between the windows may be to close. Ideally, the speakers would probably go where the windows are, but that isn't possible.

Any guidance is appreciated.

Thanks!

posting actual distance would help.....

cheers..
post #27946 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post

Yup, I'm well aware that Anthem is Paradigm's sister company.

I think you're looking at the wrong model. The AVR-X4000 has all of the latest Audyssey goodies: MultEQ XT32, Sub EQ HT, LFC, Dynamic EQ, Dynamic Volume, and probably some others I'm forgetting.

Ok so I'm blind....who cares? tongue.gif

Sounds like a pretty well featured receiver for $1300 (probably more here in Canada?) where the Anthem is quite a bit more basic.

Good luck!
Edited by Yosh70 - 5/7/13 at 11:06pm
post #27947 of 30062
Probably will be more in Canada, but I'm planning to wait for a sale price later in the year. I just bought a new sub, so this will have to wait a while. biggrin.gif

My 3808CI has MultEQ XT and still performs very well, so I'm not in a huge rush to replace it.
post #27948 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

posting actual distance would help.....

cheers..

What Distance are you referring to? In terms of seating, I would be about 2-3 feet away from the rear wall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosh70 View Post

Try them on stands to see what sounds best....altho between the windows as far apart as possible would be more ideal as per Dolby standards.

What do you have for side surrounds?

I cant use stands, I have 2 small children, plus the WAF affect.

I am only currently using 5.2.

Thanks for the replies.
post #27949 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

I haven't heard ARC in action but read lots of reviews. From what I've read XT32 and ARC are neck and neck so it would probably come down to personal preference. Also ARC I believe gives you more options when it comes to making adjustments than XT32 unless you pay the extra for Audyssey Pro and a license. I've also read that Trinnov is on a different level so I would love to try it out. The sherwood R972 comes with Trinnov but after reading the owners thread I wasn't willing to take a chance on it. Seems they have had a lot of issues and the R972 is down to 599 on A4L now so I guess they are not very popular.

One other difference ARC is PC only. That was part of the reason I didnt get the MRX-500
post #27950 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

posting actual distance would help.....

cheers..

What Distance are you referring to? In terms of seating, I would be about 2-3 feet away from the rear wall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosh70 View Post

Try them on stands to see what sounds best....altho between the windows as far apart as possible would be more ideal as per Dolby standards.

What do you have for side surrounds?

I cant use stands, I have 2 small children, plus the WAF affect.

I am only currently using 5.2.

Thanks for the replies.

the exact distances of the back wall with windows.. ..

if your handy you could mount off ceiling on the sides just behind the LP..6 -7 ft off floor.. they are supposed to be placed high on the side walls just behind the LP..

cheers..
post #27951 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

posting actual distance would help.....

cheers..

What Distance are you referring to? In terms of seating, I would be about 2-3 feet away from the rear wall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosh70 View Post

Try them on stands to see what sounds best....altho between the windows as far apart as possible would be more ideal as per Dolby standards.

What do you have for side surrounds?

I cant use stands, I have 2 small children, plus the WAF affect.

I am only currently using 5.2.

Thanks for the replies.

Just came across these nice looking ceiling mounts at SVS cheap too... sounds wise this is your best option.. how highs the ceiling?

http://www.svsound.com/outlet-specials

cheers..
post #27952 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post

I cant use stands, I have 2 small children, plus the WAF affect.

I am only currently using 5.2.

Thanks for the replies.

I meant try them on stands to see which position you like, not permanently.
I'm sure the wife and kids have to leave the house at some point in time.

But are you saying that these are your only surround speakers? And you're going to mount the dipoles on the rear wall? Blasphemy....
post #27953 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

hot off the press...from audioholics emotiva xpr 1

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/amplifiers/emotiva-xpr1-amplifier

Unlimited POWAH!
Pristine sound quality at all listening levels
Runs cool


There is little not to like about the 1kwatt Emotiva XPR-1 Monoblock power amplifier. Although it lacks the snob appeal of some of the more expensive and prestigious brands, the Emotiva XPR-1 gives up nothing in the performance department, especially with regards to power. It's built well with all the proper engineering in place to ensure reliable, problem free performance for years to come. The XPR-1 truly lives up to the “Reference series” name that Emotiva has reserved for their very best products. This is a highly recommended purchase for the audiophile looking for an amplifier with equal doses of brawn and finesse. It is the Jedi Master of power amps that would make even an audiophile Sith Lord proud to own. Check out our comprehensive review where we attempted to smoke our power resistors by dumping over 2kwatts of power through them, which the XPR-1 happily provided. Barbecue anyone?

this should power up the studio 100s nicely eh...

cheers..

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/power-amplifiers/power-amplifiers-reviews/emotiva-xpr-1-monoblock-power-amplifier.html
post #27954 of 30062
Quote:



Clips around 850 wpc @ 8 ohms



Clips around 1300 wpc @ 4 ohms

So much for "doubling down".

Very heavy - almost 100 pounds!

Nearest pro audio device I am looking at would be the Crown XTi 6000, which has more than twice the clean power (it is stereo!) and weighs 24 pounds.
post #27955 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

the exact distances of the back wall with windows.. ..

if your handy you could mount off ceiling on the sides just behind the LP..6 -7 ft off floor.. they are supposed to be placed high on the side walls just behind the LP..

cheers..

I will try and get that info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

Just came across these nice looking ceiling mounts at SVS cheap too... sounds wise this is your best option.. how highs the ceiling?

http://www.svsound.com/outlet-specials

cheers..

My ceilings are 9ft. Plus, I don't think the wife would like them hanging from the ceiling. they are a good size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosh70 View Post

I meant try them on stands to see which position you like, not permanently.
I'm sure the wife and kids have to leave the house at some point in time.

But are you saying that these are your only surround speakers? And you're going to mount the dipoles on the rear wall? Blasphemy....

Aaarrgghhhhh, I agree. Originally I was going to do a basement setup. But we decided to move and bought a new house. Right now, this is our only option.

I might try the stand option so I don't poke any holes in the walls until I am ready to do so. Good idea.
post #27956 of 30062
Hi Everyone,

So finally after a month of listening to many speakers across many vendors, I order the Studio 60s, the CC-590 channel (the 690 won't fit for me) and the ADP-590 for the rears. I am going to get dual SVS PB-12-NSDs for the subs. The seem to be performing a tad better than the Paradigm Monitor 12s from what I have read with actual extension in the high teens without a huge drop-off.

My last challenge is to choose the right AVR. This is going to be a 50/50 music/HT setup.

I have always been a Denon fan and have an older AVR-2312ci in another room. It just lacks power and XT32.

I am torn between the Pioneer SC-65 or 67 and the Denon 4520ci or the new X4000 which seems to be an incredible value but I am not sure if it will have enough discreet power without distorting at higher volumes. The Pioneer uses D3 amps, which are rated at higher capacity, lower overhead, more sufficient and run a lot cooler. But you got MCACC and I have no experience with that one. Lack of sub equalization below scares me though.

Thoughts?
post #27957 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by mroehricht View Post

Hi Everyone,

So finally after a month of listening to many speakers across many vendors, I order the Studio 60s, the CC-590 channel (the 690 won't fit for me) and the ADP-590 for the rears. I am going to get dual SVS PB-12-NSDs for the subs. The seem to be performing a tad better than the Paradigm Monitor 12s from what I have read with actual extension in the high teens without a huge drop-off.

My last challenge is to choose the right AVR. This is going to be a 50/50 music/HT setup.

I have always been a Denon fan and have an older AVR-2312ci in another room. It just lacks power and XT32.

I am torn between the Pioneer SC-65 or 67 and the Denon 4520ci or the new X4000 which seems to be an incredible value but I am not sure if it will have enough discreet power without distorting at higher volumes. The Pioneer uses D3 amps, which are rated at higher capacity, lower overhead, more sufficient and run a lot cooler. But you got MCACC and I have no experience with that one. Lack of sub equalization below scares me though.

Thoughts?

With dual subs the Denon X4000...no question. Get an XPA-5 later on down the road if you think you need more power.
post #27958 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Quote:



Clips around 850 wpc @ 8 ohms



Clips around 1300 wpc @ 4 ohms

So much for "doubling down".

Very heavy - almost 100 pounds!

Nearest pro audio device I am looking at would be the Crown XTi 6000, which has more than twice the clean power (it is stereo!) and weighs 24 pounds.

yeah but the crown cost how much more?????

this is da power...
post #27959 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by globalgreg View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mroehricht View Post

Hi Everyone,

So finally after a month of listening to many speakers across many vendors, I order the Studio 60s, the CC-590 channel (the 690 won't fit for me) and the ADP-590 for the rears. I am going to get dual SVS PB-12-NSDs for the subs. The seem to be performing a tad better than the Paradigm Monitor 12s from what I have read with actual extension in the high teens without a huge drop-off.

My last challenge is to choose the right AVR. This is going to be a 50/50 music/HT setup.

I have always been a Denon fan and have an older AVR-2312ci in another room. It just lacks power and XT32.

I am torn between the Pioneer SC-65 or 67 and the Denon 4520ci or the new X4000 which seems to be an incredible value but I am not sure if it will have enough discreet power without distorting at higher volumes. The Pioneer uses D3 amps, which are rated at higher capacity, lower overhead, more sufficient and run a lot cooler. But you got MCACC and I have no experience with that one. Lack of sub equalization below scares me though.

Thoughts?

With dual subs the Denon X4000...no question. Get an XPA-5 later on down the road if you think you need more power.

sounds good to me.. biggrin.gif

you could also look at the emotiva separtes..

the denon is weak in the power imho.. i have the denon 3313 looks like the x4000 has the same amp power.. but great for pre pro..

cheers.
post #27960 of 30062
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

sounds good to me.. biggrin.gif

you could also look at the emotiva separtes..

the denon is weak in the power imho.. i have the denon 3313 looks like the x4000 has the same amp power.. but great for pre pro..

cheers.

Would it make more sense then to get the 4520 by itself given the price addition of the x4000 and the emotiva?
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