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Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 934

post #27991 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by juanchibiris View Post

Hello, anyone here can say if Paradigm Studio 40 v3 it´s an improvement over JBL L820?

Thanks

Anyone?


And another question could I mix Studio 40 v3 with a CC-690 v5?

Thanks
post #27992 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by juanchibiris View Post

Anyone?


And another question could I mix Studio 40 v3 with a CC-690 v5?

Thanks

Never heard those JBLs so can't say. You should listen to some studios and see how you like them. Sound quality will depend greatly on the room so if you can demo them with your setup that would be best.
The 40s would be voice matched to the cc570 or cc470 v3 so that would be ideal. There are some differences between v3 and v5 but I think they would be close enough that you could use a v5 center with v3 fronts. If u can find a cc570 I would go that route but if not the 690 should be fine.
post #27993 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

lots of nice options there...

i would go for 100s if you like loud music.. you may find you will be listening to more music in the future as well because it sounds good with
100s and amp power..

if you got the cash go 3 xpa 1 L or xpa 2 and 1 xpa 1 L cc to save cash.. xpa 3 sounds great i have it but want the mono.. saving..

tuff decisions..
Yes indeed - very difficult decision. I have a friend, who is my opinion a very hard core audio enthusiast, that also recommends the XPA 1L for the L&R mains because of the zero crossover distortion. I am worried about the heat as they will most likely be in a cabinet with less than ideal ventilation. The XPA-100s may be a compromise but will will be far better than what I have ever owned; and, at a cost that makes them very tempting. Thanks for your post! smile.gif
post #27994 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saril View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

lots of nice options there...

i would go for 100s if you like loud music.. you may find you will be listening to more music in the future as well because it sounds good with
100s and amp power..

if you got the cash go 3 xpa 1 L or xpa 2 and 1 xpa 1 L cc to save cash.. xpa 3 sounds great i have it but want the mono.. saving..

tuff decisions..
Yes indeed - very difficult decision. I have a friend, who is my opinion a very hard core audio enthusiast, that also recommends the XPA 1L for the L&R mains because of the zero crossover distortion. I am worried about the heat as they will most likely be in a cabinet with less than ideal ventilation. The XPA-100s may be a compromise but will will be far better than what I have ever owned; and, at a cost that makes them very tempting. Thanks for your post! smile.gif

cabinet not a good ideal for xpa 1 Ls especially in class A mode..

i would have em on floor at the sides of cabinet and one for the center to balance out.. the reviews coming in at emotiva are very positive now on them from the customers..

you dont need to worry to much about Cross talk on a stereo amp from emotiva

for great stereo sound check this review of the xpa 2 if your going into a cabinet this be a better choice..

plenty of head room and power on the xpa 2

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/amplifiers/emotiva-xpa-2

be a great amp on the 100s..

cheers

ps as a more expensive option always xpa 1 cool running ...
post #27995 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that one, DeamWarrior. If you have Audyssey, you should re-do the calibration any time there is a change in your system or room.

Re-running Audyssey will take care of the input gain issue that you mentioned when adding an Emotiva amp (it did for me).

My experience with Audyssey has been different than yours. I get very consistent results every time. If you're having trouble with it, I'd recommend visiting the Audyssey thread. They have a fantastic guide for the calibration process. Perhaps there is some little detail that is throwing off your calibrations?
\
While I would typically agree with you to redo the calibration, when the sole change is the amplifier gains, I wouldn't risk the extra variable that I've experienced -- rather I'd just go right for the heart and adjust the channel gains to compensate. Otherwise, besides the power increase, there should be no significant reason to change the RoomEQ settings just because of an amplifier change. However, because I have certainly seen a recalibration modify the RoomEQ settings, I wouldn't want that adding to the this vs. that direct comparison between the receiver amplifier and Emotiva.

That said, it could be me and my methods. I usually move the microphone to all my seats, but I'm sure I am +/- at least six inches or more each time I do the calibration...I'm not perfect, and I don't mark up my floors for months. Either way, there should be no reason to do it when changing to external amplification-- IMO, simple channel gain adjustment should do it if you have the proper gear to assist (Radio Shack SPL meter).
post #27996 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by mroehricht View Post

Since I am going to use the Denon AVR-X4000, should I get the Emotiva XPA-3 or the XPA-5? The surrounds are two ADP-590's rated at 130W, I believe. Would the XPA-5 lead to better sound for those our should I have the AVR drive those?

The XPA-5 is kind of an interesting product. It is being bought as a upgrade over high end AVRs, but does it really have the meat on it to go the distance?

For example it claims to have a 1200 VA power transformer, but 5 x 300 watts (4 ohms) is 1500 watts, and 1500 watts would be the power drain if the amp were 100% efficient which it obviously is not.

The maximum efficiency of class AB amplifiers is generally less than 80% under ideal conditions.

It thus appears that at the very least an 1875 VA power transformer would be required to meet the 4 ohm specifications.

The power transformer appears to be sized for 200 wpc @8 ohms x 5, at the very best.

However, this is all academic because the possibility that these kinds of power levels will be achieved with music is zero. Music is dynamic and constantly changing, full of multiple musical tones, etc. All of these facts mean that a power amplifier amplifying undistorted music will never produce even half as much power as what we see on the test bench with continuous pure tones. One third to one tenth are more realisitc estimates. This presumes that you are operating the AVR just under clipping, which is not how most people use their systems.

I have seen zero evidence that people who post here about "Da power" have ever actually made a reliable determination of the amount of peak power that is being delivered to their speakers under actual listening conditions. There is a ton of evidence that most people never go beyond 50 wpc at the most.

In the case of the Denon AVR X4000, it is claimed that its maximum output power is 235 wpc, but it is also clear that this is based on dynamic operation with music, and not pure tones on a test bench with all channels operating at full tilt. Thing is, isn't music what we use AVRs to amplifiy?
post #27997 of 30070
I had to make this same decision a few years back and I ended up going with the XPA-3 and later bought the XPA-2 to power the studio 100s and the XPA-3 for the 690 and 2 rear 590s. If I had to just get one I wish I would have started with the XPA-2 to power the mains and let the Denon power the rest until I was ready to but the XPA-3. This of course all too place before the XPR line. I would own an XPR-2 with and XPA-3 and never look back. I am still considering selling the XPA-2 for the XPR-2 because it would be more work to swap out than I would like.
post #27998 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

I had to make this same decision a few years back and I ended up going with the XPA-3 and later bought the XPA-2 to power the studio 100s and the XPA-3 for the 690 and 2 rear 590s. If I had to just get one I wish I would have started with the XPA-2 to power the mains and let the Denon power the rest until I was ready to but the XPA-3. This of course all too place before the XPR line. I would own an XPR-2 with and XPA-3 and never look back. I am still considering selling the XPA-2 for the XPR-2 because it would be more work to swap out than I would like.

Thanks Delta and DenonLover
Interesting - if you had to choose between the XPA-2 or 2 XPA 100s – what would you do?
Thanks for your input. smile.gif
post #27999 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

The XPA-5 is kind of an interesting product. It is being bought as a upgrade over high end AVRs, but does it really have the meat on it to go the distance?

For example it claims to have a 1200 VA power transformer, but 5 x 300 watts (4 ohms) is 1500 watts, and 1500 watts would be the power drain if the amp were 100% efficient which it obviously is not.

The maximum efficiency of class AB amplifiers is generally less than 80% under ideal conditions.

It thus appears that at the very least an 1875 VA power transformer would be required to meet the 4 ohm specifications.

The power transformer appears to be sized for 200 wpc @8 ohms x 5, at the very best.

However, this is all academic because the possibility that these kinds of power levels will be achieved with music is zero. Music is dynamic and constantly changing, full of multiple musical tones, etc. All of these facts mean that a power amplifier amplifying undistorted music will never produce even half as much power as what we see on the test bench with continuous pure tones. One third to one tenth are more realisitc estimates. This presumes that you are operating the AVR just under clipping, which is not how most people use their systems.

I have seen zero evidence that people who post here about "Da power" have ever actually made a reliable determination of the amount of peak power that is being delivered to their speakers under actual listening conditions. There is a ton of evidence that most people never go beyond 50 wpc at the most.

In the case of the Denon AVR X4000, it is claimed that its maximum output power is 235 wpc, but it is also clear that this is based on dynamic operation with music, and not pure tones on a test bench with all channels operating at full tilt. Thing is, isn't music what we use AVRs to amplifiy?

Would a rating greater than the 1200 VA power transformer rating for the XPA-5 (or any other for that matter) require a 20 amp circuit? The cost for me to install a new 20 amp circuit to my living room would make the product unusable for me. I'm asking out of ignorance. Thanks.
post #28000 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saril View Post

Thanks Delta and DenonLover
Interesting - if you had to choose between the XPA-2 or 2 XPA 100s – what would you do?
Thanks for your input. smile.gif

If I was personally doing it all over again I would get an XPR-2 for the mains and an XPA-3 for the center and surrounds. If your asking if I would get one XPA-2 vs running 2 mono XPA-1 to each speaker? It would depend on how much 2-channel music you listen to at volume but running mono would definitely win. I would also reach out to Emotiva and ask them how the XPR-2 compares to 2 XPA-1s for your mains. I would think 2 XPA-1s would be the way to go but that is only a guess.
post #28001 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saril View Post

Thanks Delta and DenonLover
Interesting - if you had to choose between the XPA-2 or 2 XPA 100s – what would you do?
Thanks for your input. smile.gif

If I was personally doing it all over again I would get an XPR-2 for the mains and an XPA-3 for the center and surrounds. If your asking if I would get one XPA-2 vs running 2 mono XPA-1 to each speaker? It would depend on how much 2-channel music you listen to at volume but running mono would definitely win. I would also reach out to Emotiva and ask them how the XPR-2 compares to 2 XPA-1s for your mains. I would think 2 XPA-1s would be the way to go but that is only a guess.

the xpa 2 is a bit cheap than 2 xpa 100s .. i cant say for sure but from my readings i would go with the xpa 2 if your on a budget... more power cross talk 140 db in the article not and issue..

xpr 2 thats some power eh.. biggrin.gif

on sale right now too..

on the mono side xpa 1 or 1 L.. another very happy camper posting on the 1 Ls today..

like i said i did the same as Denon lover started with a xpa 3 lack of funds need power right away... it was on sale.. very statisfied.. with sound q..

i hear the big sale coming around july 4th.. if you can waite..

cheers..
post #28002 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saril View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

The XPA-5 is kind of an interesting product. It is being bought as a upgrade over high end AVRs, but does it really have the meat on it to go the distance?

For example it claims to have a 1200 VA power transformer, but 5 x 300 watts (4 ohms) is 1500 watts, and 1500 watts would be the power drain if the amp were 100% efficient which it obviously is not.

The maximum efficiency of class AB amplifiers is generally less than 80% under ideal conditions.

It thus appears that at the very least an 1875 VA power transformer would be required to meet the 4 ohm specifications.

The power transformer appears to be sized for 200 wpc @8 ohms x 5, at the very best.

However, this is all academic because the possibility that these kinds of power levels will be achieved with music is zero. Music is dynamic and constantly changing, full of multiple musical tones, etc. All of these facts mean that a power amplifier amplifying undistorted music will never produce even half as much power as what we see on the test bench with continuous pure tones. One third to one tenth are more realisitc estimates. This presumes that you are operating the AVR just under clipping, which is not how most people use their systems.

I have seen zero evidence that people who post here about "Da power" have ever actually made a reliable determination of the amount of peak power that is being delivered to their speakers under actual listening conditions. There is a ton of evidence that most people never go beyond 50 wpc at the most.

In the case of the Denon AVR X4000, it is claimed that its maximum output power is 235 wpc, but it is also clear that this is based on dynamic operation with music, and not pure tones on a test bench with all channels operating at full tilt. Thing is, isn't music what we use AVRs to amplifiy?

Would a rating greater than the 1200 VA power transformer rating for the XPA-5 (or any other for that matter) require a 20 amp circuit? The cost for me to install a new 20 amp circuit to my living room would make the product unusable for me. I'm asking out of ignorance. Thanks.

be a good idea to have an xpa 5 on its own 15 amp circuit.. i dont like to load my circuits.. good idea to have a few circuit to an ht control centre eh..

subs should be on there own circuit as well.. especially the bad boys..

only xpr lines need 20 amp..

cheers
post #28003 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saril View Post


Would a rating greater than the 1200 VA power transformer rating for the XPA-5 (or any other for that matter) require a 20 amp circuit? The cost for me to install a new 20 amp circuit to my living room would make the product unusable for me. I'm asking out of ignorance. Thanks.

As long as you stick to using it to amplify music, no problem with a standard 15 amp circuit.
post #28004 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

If your asking if I would get one XPA-2 vs running 2 mono XPA-1 to each speaker? It would depend on how much 2-channel music you listen to at volume but running mono would definitely win. I would also reach out to Emotiva and ask them how the XPR-2 compares to 2 XPA-1s for your mains. I would think 2 XPA-1s would be the way to go but that is only a guess.

I was asking about 2 XPA-100s (250W), not 2 XPA-1 (500W) vs. the XPA-2. Thanks for your post.
post #28005 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

the xpa 2 is a bit cheap than 2 xpa 100s .. i cant say for sure but from my readings i would go with the xpa 2 if your on a budget... more power cross talk 140 db in the article not and issue..

xpr 2 thats some power eh.. biggrin.gif

on sale right now too..

on the mono side xpa 1 or 1 L.. another very happy camper posting on the 1 Ls today..

like i said i did the same as Denon lover started with a xpa 3 lack of funds need power right away... it was on sale.. very statisfied.. with sound q..

i hear the big sale coming around july 4th.. if you can waite..

cheers..

Yeah - I may wait for the sale. But, two XPA-100s vs. the XPA-2 for only $100 difference makes the XPA-100s a solid choice. Just my thoughts. Thanks for your post.smile.gif
post #28006 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

As long as you stick to using it to amplify music, no problem with a standard 15 amp circuit.

Thanks for your post. What I was really asking was - did Emotiva deliberately keep the transformer rating at 1200VA even though, per your comments:
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

It thus appears that at the very least an 1875 VA power transformer would be required to meet the 4 ohm specifications.
The power transformer appears to be sized for 200 wpc @8 ohms x 5, at the very best.]

the rating is lower than the amp is capable of, i.e, anything over 1200VA will require a 20 circuit which most do not have. Thanks again for your input.
post #28007 of 30070
Saril, you need to take a deep breath and think this through.
The question you need to ask yourself is how much
Power do you need and are actually going to USE!

Here is a calculator that shows how watts,distance from
Speakers,speaker sensitivity produce the sound levels
You will listen at. Refer to the chart at the bottom of the
Page.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Of course if you are going the With the marantz 7701
Or any other pre-pro you will need some separate
Amps.
Edited by grasshoppers - 5/12/13 at 7:34pm
post #28008 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saril View Post

I too am trying to decide eek.gif (if I get the Studio 100s and 690 CC) new surrounds come later...
70% HT 30% 2.1 Music (loud vs. HT)

Some choices:
Marantz 7701 and XPA 3
Marantz 7701 and 3 x XPA-100s
Marantz 7701 and XPA-1L x 2 and XPA-100 (CC)

Swap the Marantz 7701 above with Denon X4000
Swap the Marantz 7701 above with Pioneer SC-68
Swap the Marantz 7701 above with Anthem MRX-700 (may get an upgrade SEP2013)
Swap the Marantz 7701 above with Emotiva UMC-200

or
Parasound Halo 31 and Marantz 7701

I like the thought of separates and placing the mono blocks close to the L/R/CC speakers and keeping speaker wire short and going with longer XLR cable lengths.

I am leaning towards Marantz 7701 and 3 x XPA-100s...

Anyway - I feel your pain. This is such a difficult decision - good luck.smile.gif

There is absolutely no reason that I can think of to get the the 7701 over the X4000. XT32 is where it's at.
post #28009 of 30070
Keep in mind you will need more power to drive a full range tower (more power) vs setting the crosovers at 60-80hz (less power) and using a sub to fill the low end.
post #28010 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saril View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

the xpa 2 is a bit cheap than 2 xpa 100s .. i cant say for sure but from my readings i would go with the xpa 2 if your on a budget... more power cross talk 140 db in the article not and issue..

xpr 2 thats some power eh.. biggrin.gif

on sale right now too..

on the mono side xpa 1 or 1 L.. another very happy camper posting on the 1 Ls today..

like i said i did the same as Denon lover started with a xpa 3 lack of funds need power right away... it was on sale.. very statisfied.. with sound q..

i hear the big sale coming around july 4th.. if you can waite..

cheers..

Yeah - I may wait for the sale. But, two XPA-100s vs. the XPA-2 for only $100 difference makes the XPA-100s a solid choice. Just my thoughts. Thanks for your post.smile.gif

have you decided on the paradigm speakers yet 60 or 100s? ..... if you want a small mono block get the xpa 1 L.. for a bit more way better product amp will last a long time

read some of the reviews at emo..
post #28011 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

Keep in mind you will need more power to drive a full range tower (more power) vs setting the crosovers at 60-80hz (less power) and using a sub to fill the low end.


more power thats it... !!!!

could always have more power and big subs too...

if only speakers and amps where free !!!

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif
post #28012 of 30070
My Emotiva amps rarely if ever get much of a workout when watching movies at reference 0db. When I listen to music at reference I can see the amp really starting to stretch its legs and go to work. Its fun watching certain songs or types of music challenge the amps. I also like to change my crossover setting from 80hz to full range when playing 2 channel and set the crossovers to 60hz when listening to surround formats.
post #28013 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

My Emotiva amps rarely if ever get much of a workout when watching movies at reference 0db. When I listen to music at reference I can see the amp really starting to stretch its legs and go to work. Its fun watching certain songs or types of music challenge the amps. I also like to change my crossover setting from 80hz to full range when playing 2 channel and set the crossovers to 60hz when listening to surround formats.

How exactly do you determine when the Emotiva amps are getting a workout?
post #28014 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by globalgreg View Post

How exactly do you determine when the Emotiva amps are getting a workout?

My version:

When using my 145 W/C AVR playing the same material at high levels for me. (Lossless HD audio @ ~ - 15 db) My AVR got very hot. I purchased twin cooling fans to take care of it. Mounted in a properly vented cabinet using factory recommended clearances. Driving Sig 8s and C5.

After connecting a XPA - 3 running the same material at = levels, he XPA3 hardly gets warm. When my XPA - 3 gets hot, I guess that would be a "Workout". Hasn't happened yet.

Not very scientific, but I don't worry about my house burning down.

For the power guys, P = IE. Volt amps = P.

Proper circuit protection in US for continuous loads is, Load = 80% of Breaker rating. 20 A circuit = 16 A load. P = IE, P = 16 X 120 which is 1920 W, 15 A circuit = 12 A X 120 = 1440 W.
post #28015 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by globalgreg View Post

How exactly do you determine when the Emotiva amps are getting a workout?

There are little blue power lights as you will see from the photo below (XPA-2). These lights begin to move outward as the material becomes more challenging and I almost always run Lossless HD audio at reference usually for the duration of an album or two if its the weekend. Classical and rock can really makes those blue lights dance especially at full range! biggrin.gif I just use my 4808 as a pre amp now, and am very close to pulling the trigger on a Marantz 8801.


Edited by DenonLover - 5/12/13 at 10:20pm
post #28016 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by globalgreg View Post

How exactly do you determine when the Emotiva amps are getting a workout?

There are little blue power lights as you will see from the photo below (XPA-2). These lights begin to move outward as the material becomes more challenging and I almost always run Lossless HD audio at reference usually for the duration of an album or two if its the weekend. Classical and rock can really makes those blue lights dance especially at full range! biggrin.gif I just use my 4808 as a pre amp now, and am very close to pulling the trigger on a Marantz 8801.


what speakers are you running full range Denonlover?

cheers
post #28017 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayrton View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by globalgreg View Post

How exactly do you determine when the Emotiva amps are getting a workout?

My version:

When using my 145 W/C AVR playing the same material at high levels for me. (Lossless HD audio @ ~ - 15 db) My AVR got very hot. I purchased twin cooling fans to take care of it. Mounted in a properly vented cabinet using factory recommended clearances. Driving Sig 8s and C5.

After connecting a XPA - 3 running the same material at = levels, he XPA3 hardly gets warm. When my XPA - 3 gets hot, I guess that would be a "Workout". Hasn't happened yet.

Not very scientific, but I don't worry about my house burning down.

For the power guys, P = IE. Volt amps = P.

Proper circuit protection in US for continuous loads is, Load = 80% of Breaker rating. 20 A circuit = 16 A load. P = IE, P = 16 X 120 which is 1920 W, 15 A circuit = 12 A X 120 = 1440 W.

wow Ayrton you added some amp power.. nice.. did you notice any sq improvement at all?

talk about hot my denon 3313 was way to hot for my liking.. it is still warm even with the amp..

cheers
post #28018 of 30070
I have the Studio 100 v.5, CC690, and 590 rears. They do well in most environments and I love to listen to Metallica, 'Nothing Else Matters' until I feel chill's going up and down my arms. I put this system to work and do not believe in babying it and will replace anything that breaks or can't take it. cool.gif

I also have a PB13Ultra for the bottom end but do not always run it depending in the music.
Edited by DenonLover - 5/13/13 at 10:08am
post #28019 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

I have the Studio 100 v.5, CC690, and 590 rears. They do well in most environments and I love to listen to Metallica, 'Nothing Else Matters' until I feel chill's going up and down my arms. I put this system to work and do not believe in babying it and will replace anything that breaks or can't take it. cool.gif

I also have a PB13Ultra for the bottom end but do not always run it depending in the music.

real nice set up ... hey im a bit bias pretty much the same as mine lol.. im looking to add svs PC plus or ultra cant decide and get some mono blocks for stereo.. or even xpa 2.. decisions..

wow you do listen loud.. -10 db is plenty in my room..

sounds real good ..
post #28020 of 30070
Quote:
Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

real nice set up ... hey im a bit bias pretty much the same as mine lol.. im looking to add svs PC plus or ultra cant decide and get some mono blocks for stereo.. or even xpa 2.. decisions..

wow you do listen loud.. -10 db is plenty in my room..

sounds real good ..

If I pick up the 8801, then I will get another PB13Ultra at the same time to manage 2 subs and want to get like equipment. I email Emotiva and asked if they would try out an upgrade program for existing customer who would like to move up to their XPR line. the mono blocks would be nice and give you lots of headroom but the XPA2 is quite the little performer if your only listing to -10 db especially when using the sub for content under 80 hz.
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