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Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 960

post #28771 of 30074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunk12 View Post

I am rebuilding my HT with the following and need your advice.

Integra 60.5 AVR

Oppo 103

Outlaw 7200 amp

Epson 5030 projector

 

Paradigm speakers

Studio 60s V.5

CC-690 V.5

SA-ADP surrounds

SA-15R-30s for rear surrounds

Sub 12

 

The room is 20 x 15 ft. It will be a 7.1 setup. I may trying to decide exactly how to power these speakers. Heres my question-

 

1- Should I just stick with AVR for power 135w/channel?

2- Should I buy and use Outlaw amp for all speakers (200w/channel)?

3. Should I buy and use Outlaw amp for just the LCR via bi-amp and power side and rears with AVR?

 

Which one of these is going to be the most noticeable and be the best for the HT surround experience? Thanks for your advice!!!!


What is missing is your room acoustics plan, so many just never tackle that.


Sent from my 32GB iPhone4 using Tapatalk
post #28772 of 30074
I'm a little worried about CC690 owners and their blown mid-range drivers from a few pages back. How loud are you listening to your movies? Seems strange that damage can occur so easily as this is a huge center speaker with lots of drivers. In fact it's one of the largest center speakers I've seen! I've ordered one as well, but I'm wondering if the other members are abusing their centers, or whether there is a fault with the speaker itself. I'll be high-passing my speakers at around 70 Hz, I just hope this speaker can handle SPL up to reference level in my 2000 cubic foot room. Should be able to with ease, but then hearing these blown drivers from members has made me feel a little uneasy.
post #28773 of 30074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heinrich S View Post

I'm a little worried about CC690 owners and their blown mid-range drivers from a few pages back. How loud are you listening to your movies? Seems strange that damage can occur so easily as this is a huge center speaker with lots of drivers. In fact it's one of the largest center speakers I've seen! I've ordered one as well, but I'm wondering if the other members are abusing their centers, or whether there is a fault with the speaker itself. I'll be high-passing my speakers at around 70 Hz, I just hope this speaker can handle SPL up to reference level in my 2000 cubic foot room. Should be able to with ease, but then hearing these blown drivers from members has made me feel a little uneasy.

I have a 1500 cubic ft room. I have my center crossed at 80 Hz and I have been listening to movies at about the same level since the last 10 years. listening at -20db MV (0 dB is reference level) on my Integra DHC 80.1 is not driving it hard by any means. I have an earthquake cinenova grande 7 amp so clipping is not an issue. I put it down to bad QC. In my case the problem was that when watching movies male voices at a certain frequency would sound distorted. I could never detect it when playing SACD or Muti Ch Music. I haven't read all the 960 pages of this thread, but would be interested to know how many people had problem with the mid-range driver. My guess is that the number is very small.
Edited by rockydj - 9/27/13 at 5:49pm
post #28774 of 30074
I had the exact same issue with a (Monitor Series) CC-290 v5.
post #28775 of 30074
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsteak View Post

Visited CEDIA today, spoke to a Paradigm guy, Sigs are getting upgraded next year, pure beryllium mids is what he told me the upgrade "might" be (with a smile).

that sounds like it could be expensive, but a step in the right direction hopefully. it should take that "edge" off the current signature series speakers sound, to give an overall smoother and more natural sounding midrange presentation...
post #28776 of 30074
Price reduction on my listed Sub 25.......eek.gif
post #28777 of 30074
I'm kind of bummed out with Paradigm........I thought we would see a V.6 Studio series at the 2012 CEDIA.........NOT.........then I thought CES 2013........NO.............and not at this years CEDIA.

I think the Studio series is older than the current Signature series. They seem to have lots of in wall speakers and sound bars but what about their core business....and keeping up. Many other companies...Focal, B&W, Def Tech, etc were showing new towers etc . What if anything for a "Studio Range" customer will be shown at CES 2014? I hate to say it but, I think they would probably be more likely to introduce their new toilet noise cancelling series than a new Studio series at this point.
post #28778 of 30074
I was looking at upgrading a CC-470 v.3 that I haven't been very happy with lately (paired with Studio 20 v.3s that I am still happy with) and was looking into the CC-490 or CC-590. With my new tv stand, I have trouble angling the center speaker upwards (little room for it), which is one reason I'm hoping another speaker might be a better fit, but a sound quality boost in this speaker would be great, as well.

I know plenty of center speaker height questions have been asked before, but my TV stand shelf has plenty of height room, aside from a single half-inch wide bar that is 8 1/4 inches high about 4 1/2 inches back. Given how curved the speaker designs are, it's difficult to tell what will fit from the specs.

Any advice on how to figure whether the 490 or 590 might fit?

With the feet, is the speaker upward tilt adjustable, and could this help make a difference?

And should either of these be an upgrade from the CC-470 v.3? (For comparison I auditioned a C1 center at one point, and though it sounded great, thought the soundstage seemed smaller and that it seemed to be paired oddly with the V.20s so ultimately returned it..)

Thanks for any advice. It's tough to figure out what to do here when your current setup gives you only one or two options and it's hard to track one down to audition in NYC.
Edited by csilverstein - 9/28/13 at 4:50pm
post #28779 of 30074
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKR1963 View Post

I'm kind of bummed out with Paradigm........I thought we would see a V.6 Studio series at the 2012 CEDIA.........NOT.........then I thought CES 2013........NO.............and not at this years CEDIA.

I think the Studio series is older than the current Signature series. They seem to have lots of in wall speakers and sound bars but what about their core business....and keeping up. Many other companies...Focal, B&W, Def Tech, etc were showing new towers etc . What if anything for a "Studio Range" customer will be shown at CES 2014? I hate to say it but, I think they would probably be more likely to introduce their new toilet noise cancelling series than a new Studio series at this point.
I got to ask but what is it that you want them to improve they seem to offer a lot at their price point and if they did bump the drivers then they would be in direct competition with their Sigs.
post #28780 of 30074
Remember......newer does not always mean better, unless of course if there is an associated price increase. Sometimes newer incorporates cost cutting measures that may result in a lesser product. Take for instance the last bump in the Monitor series. Although I have not compared the v.6 to the v.7 there was a significant change in the cost structure of that line-up.
post #28781 of 30074
Speaker technology doesn't change a lot from year to year, so there's nothing to be disappointed about. Paradigm could slightly alter their speakers every year to grab buyers attention, but there would be no substantial design change to correlate to, which would mean this would merely be a yearly fashion change. It doesn't make business sense to cannibalize the Signature line by pushing features into the Reference product line. I'd rather buy products driven by real engineering rather than being driven solely by marketing needs.
post #28782 of 30074
Paradigm has made improvements in all areas since the last Studio series came out........driver's, crossover's, the way the driver's are mounted .....etc. The normal release of a new Reference Studio series was every 4 years........and it looks like we are going to go up to closer to 6 years this time. Long time fans of their studio series like me (I still own Studio 20 and LCR 450 and a Servo 15a all V.1) sort of expect them to intro a new line like they always have.

The nature of Paradigm has always been to improve the lower lines by using tech and parts developed for the upper line......they historically have operated this way to give their customers constantly improving speakers........they don't consider it cannibalizing at all. The Signature line would have a higher profit margin than the Studio.......but I have a feeling that the Reference line adds more income (more volume) to the bottom line of the company than the Signature line.

My dealers feels that the two 30th Anniversary speakers are very superior to the current Signature line due to better crossovers.........I know they sound incredible.....I don't have enough experience with either to comment on how they compare.

I wanted a new center for one of my systems ........... and bought (yesterday) a new in the box SE center (last one new in the Metro Edmonton area, the 3rd dealer had a new one) . It is the Black Gloss one and it seems real nice sound wise.........and price wise at half of list a good deal. I was surprised to find the finish to be poor with scuff's and scratches on it..........so much for made in Canada... a keeper for $333. anyway.

The reason for my interest in V.6 is because I wanted a new center to replace my LCR-450 and I wanted a big one that must be a 3 way design (vastly superior). I considered the 590, 690 and the center 3. This would be used with my Energy RC 70 (4), RC-50(2), Servo 15a, Velodyne DLS 5000R system. I do like matching speaker systems (same brand and driver's) and just wanted the center right now ($ reasons). By the time I would have more $ for 100' s to match a 690, assuming I felt it was necessary, it is likely there will be a V.6........and no more new V.5 100's to buy. Also, I can get about 20% off for V.5 and it likely won't get any better........the discount I can get on V.6 will be the same 20% off. Since it is a significant investment to buy a Studio 100/690 system and there is likely a new line coming that will be better........I would like the newer version for a similar outlay of $......even if the new ones are a little more $.

I am definitely not saying the current V.5 Speaker's are not great speaker's because they are and I am listening to the same Gold anodized tweeter right now as I type this and it sounds fantastic on Crossfire Hurricane which I am listening to. This is not really year to year........they would have been working on the tech and driver's for V.5 as far back as 2004, 2005......
Edited by JKR1963 - 9/29/13 at 2:25pm
post #28783 of 30074
I think Paradigms biggest problem is the decrease in sales since the financial crisis of 2008. It's hard to justify spending money on product development if the market is slowing down.

Here's a video I posted about the problem in 2011:
post #28784 of 30074
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbfleming View Post

I think Paradigms biggest problem is the decrease in sales since the financial crisis of 2008. It's hard to justify spending money on product development if the market is slowing down.

I can generally agree with this statement, but I feel that Paradigm's
Insistence on sticking to their "brick & mortar store" distribution sucks
Big time. Time to move into the 21st century! Direct and internet sales
Are the future. A good example in my area is that BOTH paradigm
Dealers in Tucson have gone out of business or no longer carry paradigm.
For me this means a 6 hour round trip to Phoenix or Yuma, not to mention
That these authorized "dealers" are installers only.

Of course this is probably saving me money.wink.gif
post #28785 of 30074
Agreed, you really have to go out your way to buy their products. It's not like an impulse purchase where you show up at home with new speakers and your angry wife says "take them back".
post #28786 of 30074
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbfleming View Post

I think Paradigms biggest problem is the decrease in sales since the financial crisis of 2008. It's hard to justify spending money on product development if the market is slowing down.

Here's a video I posted about the problem in 2011:

Obviously they have continued development .......... Signatures came out after the V.5 Studio......so did the 30th Anniversary speakers and both have better tech. And a source at Paradigm has told me they are working on stuff right now that may not be called Sig's or Studio's.

I have watched that video 20 times since it came out.......some stuff did not make sense.....the US $ went up...........so raise the price for Canadians?? 35% price increases or so during the tenure of the V.5 series .............. this was not good for sales.........most people think they are starting to go a bit high.......even the dealer's are saying this. I love this company anyway........and intend to purchase their products anyway.
post #28787 of 30074
In some ways I'm happy paradigm didn't announce any new versions on their range. I wouldn't be happy that something new is going to replace a product that isn't really that old. Pretty much why I have slight resentment against Apple. Something new every 6-12 months makes no sense to me. I know technology keeps changing and I'm glad speakers don't have the same approach.

Pricing on the other hand........I wish my income was like that. I haven't had a pay rise in nearly 10 yrs.

I think I'm going to purchase a D2v sometime next week. Anyone here looking for a mint D2 with unused ARC?
post #28788 of 30074
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbfleming View Post

Speaker technology doesn't change a lot from year to year, so there's nothing to be disappointed about. Paradigm could slightly alter their speakers every year to grab buyers attention, but there would be no substantial design change to correlate to, which would mean this would merely be a yearly fashion change. It doesn't make business sense to cannibalize the Signature line by pushing features into the Reference product line. I'd rather buy products driven by real engineering rather than being driven solely by marketing needs.

sorry but a change from aluminum mid drivers to the claimed beryllium mids for the signatures (i had also guessed this would be paradigms next move for the sigs) is slightly more than "grabbing buyers attention" and will surely affect the sound in a huge way. this is not a minor change but a really substantial one imo. i also owned a complete .v3 signature setup similar to yours (s8's, c5, and c2's) but over time found them too harsh/forward sounding for my liking and ended up selling them. i would be willing to try paradigm one more time as i am still in the market for a complete h/t setup including large main floor standers and a substantially large center and we all know paradigm definitely delivers on the size factor... no wimpy center channels here.
post #28789 of 30074
Quote:
Originally Posted by csilverstein View Post

I was looking at upgrading a CC-470 v.3 that I haven't been very happy with lately (paired with Studio 20 v.3s that I am still happy with) and was looking into the CC-490 or CC-590.

Any advice on how to figure whether the 490 or 590 might fit?

With the feet, is the speaker upward tilt adjustable, and could this help make a difference?

And should either of these be an upgrade from the CC-470 v.3? (For comparison I auditioned a C1 center at one point, and though it sounded great, thought the soundstage seemed smaller and that it seemed to be paired oddly with the V.20s so ultimately returned it..)

Thanks for any advice. It's tough to figure out what to do here when your current setup gives you only one or two options and it's hard to track one down to audition in NYC.

I don't see that anyone has answered - I'm not sure you gave enough info about the size of the space that you have for anyone to know if those speakers would fit. A photo or drawing would probably solve that. I have the older version v.4 cabinet with corners (not rounded in back) so I can't help.

Regarding their sound - I had an older 2-way Paradigm center channel (similar to yours) and the new 3-way center speakers sound significantly different. All of the new centers are three way designs (or 3.5 way) with vertical tweeter / midrange array that is FAR superior to older designs with horizontal M-T-M array of drivers - they now have similar dispersion characteristics to a standard loudspeaker, less lobing, etc. This gives the center speaker much better dialog intelligibility. Compared to my old speakers with M-T-M D'appolito configuration the new Paradigm center speakers sound much more like the L/R main speakers. I would really suggest at least the CC-590 as it has really good mid-bass and isn't that much more than the 490.

Living in NYC you aren't going to find much sympathy from others on AVS about auditioning Paradigm speakers - the nearest dealer that actually displays and demos Paradigm speakers is several hours away from me and for many people on AVS it is probably closer to 8 hours away.
post #28790 of 30074
Thanks for the feedback. I wasn't aware of all the improvements, so that makes me more confident in the idea of upgrading (and upgrading now, since there's no new studio coming soon, apparently).

I'm likely going to give the CC-590 a shot since it sounds as though there's a big difference from the 490, although I am still worried about whether the 8 1/4 " inch high bar, 1/2 inch wide and 5 inches back from where the front of the speaker is, will be a problem. Might just need to try it out and hope for the best -- maybe angling it the right way, it will fit. Posting a pic, as requested.


Edited by csilverstein - 9/30/13 at 3:23pm
post #28791 of 30074
Quote:
Originally Posted by csilverstein View Post

I'm likely going to give the CC-590 a shot since it sounds as though there's a big difference from the 490, although I am still worried about whether the 8 1/4 " inch high bar, 1/2 inch wide and 5 inches back from where the front of the speaker is, will be a problem. Might just need to try it out and hope for the best -- maybe angling it the right way, it will fit. Posting a pic, as requested.

My CC-590 is 13" deep and the newer v.5 (although rounded at the back) is just as deep. If you have a blockage in your cabinet only 5" back and 8" high, I don't know how any decent sized speaker is going to fit there - that is only 5" of depth allowed at almost the full height of the speaker. Is that coming from above and allows 8 1/4" below the bar? According to the Paradigm web site in 2004 (via the "Way Back Machine") the size of your current CC-470 is: Height, Width, Depth: 9-1/16 x 23-1/2 x 12-7/8 in. According to that, your current speaker shouldn't even fit. I'm still confused by your description of your cabinet blockage. confused.gif

http://web.archive.org/web/20040805115434/http://paradigm.com/Website/SiteReferenceProduct/RModels/StudioSeries/StudioSeriesNew/StudioSpecs.html

By the way, Paradigm is terrible about archiving their old products and old manuals - especially for those of us that have older versions of their speakers. What is the problem? Other companies have every old product archived with production dates, manuals, specs, even photos. Look at Parasound's site - very nice for owners of older versions.
post #28792 of 30074
I noticed that, also, that specs online for my current speaker seem to say 9" height, although my measurement of my speaker comes to 8 ". Cannot quite explain that. The reason I was posing the question is that many pics I see online seem to show the back of the 590 sloping downward, so I was wondering if that might make a difference and it still might fit, the highest point still ahead of the bar that allows 8 1/4 inches -- possibly with the feet removed, which would take off some of the height, as well.
post #28793 of 30074
A bit of advice to those with distortion problems. I have seen on my Paradigm Sub and another persons Studios the bare wires from the internal circuit board to the cone were intermittently shorting as the cone moved in and out. I have never seen this happen before, but it does. Just a little note.

I had the sub amp replaced under warranty and some time later it blew again. This time the warranty expired. When I looked behind the woofer ( which I should of did the first time ) I noticed the problem.
post #28794 of 30074
FEATURE: Supply Side - Canadian Made: Paradigm Electronics Inc.
Published: 12/17/2012 03:36:24 PM

http://www.marketnews.ca/QA/FEATURE:SupplySide-CanadianMade:ParadigmElectronicsInc..html?page=1
Quote:
Unlike most speaker brands, Paradigm designs and builds its own drivers and crossovers, and has a floor full of impressive machinery for doing this. Paradigm produces the exotic cones and domes used in its speakers on injection-molding machines. There are machines that wind voice coils with zero-turn tolerance, so that real-world performance matches the reference design exactly. There are injection-molding machines for producing the exotic cones and domes used in Paradigm speakers. The only exception is the beryllium dome used on Signature Series tweeters. This comes from a supplier in the U.S., but the beryllium structure is assembled by Paradigm. (The next iteration of the Signature lineup will also have a beryllium midrange driver. Its first breakup mode is at 23kHz, allowing for a perfect blend with the tweeter.)








Edited by mbfleming - 9/30/13 at 5:46pm
post #28795 of 30074
Does anyone have any information about the new Beryllium midrange Paradigm is developing?





THE TRUTH ABOUT BERYLLIUM – GoodSoundClub
post #28796 of 30074
One can only assume that the next Studio series would get a beryllium tweeter with the Sigs upgrading to two berriyllium drivers.
post #28797 of 30074
Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

One can only assume that the next Studio series would get a beryllium tweeter with the Sigs upgrading to two berriyllium drivers.

If that's true, it would likely be the cheapest speaker with a real Berrylium tweeter. I'm not sure that's going to happen on a < $1000 bookshelf.
post #28798 of 30074
My guess will be this for driver specs:

For the C5:
High Frequency Driver
25-mm (1 in) P-Be™ dome, ferro-fluid damped / cooled, rear damping chamber with ARB™ fins and integrated heatsink, dual super-neodymium ring magnets, die-cast heatsink chassis, IMS/SHOCK-MOUNT™

Midrange Frequency Driver
102-mm (4 in) P-Be™ cone, ferro-fluid damped / cooled, ATC™ chambers, 25-mm (1 in) dual-layer voice-coil, super-neodymium ring magnets, AVS™ die-cast heatsink chassis, IMS/SHOCK-MOUNT™

Mid/Bass Frequency Driver
Two 178-mm (7 in) mineral-filled polypropylene cones, overmolded NLC™ surrounds, 38-mm (1-1/2 in) dual-layer long-excursion voice-coils, massive hard ferrite magnets, AVS™ die-cast heatsink chassis, IMS/SHOCK-MOUNT™

Low Frequency Driver
Two 178-mm (7 in) mineral-filled polypropylene cones, overmolded NLC™ surrounds, 38-mm (1-1/2 in) dual-layer long-excursion voice-coils, massive hard ferrite magnets, AVS™ die-cast heatsink chassis, IMS/SHOCK-MOUNT™

S8:
High Frequency Driver
25-mm (1 in) P-Be™ dome, ferro-fluid damped / cooled, rear damping chamber with ARB™ fins and integrated heatsink, dual super-neodymium ring magnets, die-cast heatsink chassis, IMS/SHOCK-MOUNT™

Midrange Frequency Driver
102-mm (4 in) P-Be™ cone, ferro-fluid damped / cooled, ATC™ chambers, 25-mm (1 in) dual-layer voice-coil, super-neodymium ring magnets, AVS™ die-cast heatsink chassis, IMS/SHOCK-MOUNT™

Low Frequency Driver
Four 178-mm (7 in) mineral-filled polypropylene cones, overmolded NLC™ surrounds, 38-mm (1-1/2 in) four-layer long-excursion voice-coils, massive hard ferrite magnets, AVS™ die-cast heatsink chassis, IMS/SHOCK-MOUNT™

or the S8 might go to a 3 1/2 way like the center... time will tell.

Now that doesn't explain the S2 or S1!

It sure would be cool if they went straight to a 7" beryllium cone, but I don't see it happening because the C5 for example would have 2 7" beryllium cones, plus a 4" beryllium cone!$

Also do you think that Paradigm will switch to neodymium magnets on the low frequency drivers like B&W did???

Time will tell, I do look forward to the new signatures though. biggrin.gif
post #28799 of 30074
+ maybe some improvements to the crossover to improve the sound of the better driver's.
post #28800 of 30074
I'm guessing they'll use a use a 4 inch dome instead of a cone.
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