Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 106

OK guys... got another question... I got all my stuff together except speaks...
SVS PB12-Plus/2 New
Pioneer VSX-81TXV as a Temp. Pre/Pro, new wholesale
ROTEL RMB-1095 used 4 months $1200

Im going with the Paradigm Studio's 100's, CC-690 Studio 20's rears.. Now...
What should I be looking to get for a price break.. some other guy was posting 15-20% off list, what have you gotten for discount. My dealer offered me less then 10%, and I did not negotiate at that time. Nearest other Digm dealers are 2 hours in different directions.

And What color would you pick in my room.
Paradigm Rosenut or Paradigm Black Ash
heres my room... Table is Black, and SVS is Rosenut
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...12Plus2007.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...12Plus2006.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...12Plus2004.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...12Plus2005.jpg

What do you think....

Thanks

Warp

A few pages back, someone claimed they paid $70 per pair, sounds kinda low to me.


WOW, thanks for sharing this info!

Well, got back from the dealer a couple of hours ago and just now have some free time.

The dealer had the Monitor 11v5s hooked up in a room and left me to my own free reign with every component he had.

The receiver was a Denon 2806 I believe (pretty sure that's what he said).

The speakers looke great, with the grills on. Without the grill, that white speaker is pretty much fugly. I see know why you guys are calling it a condom.

As for sound, the soundstage was great. All the performers from my demo disc sounded like they were standing in the middle of the room.

When my wife came in she thought just the center (a CC390 in all of it's huge glory ) was the only speaker on.

All in all, I was pretty impressed. The only thing that lacked was the low range because they were just hooked up for the first time an hour before I came. I'm assuming they will liven up after a few more hours of break-in.

The dealer quoted me a pretty decent price on the whole 5 speaker setup but I don't know if I'm allowed to post that on here since it's not technically MSRP.

Just think of how many hours are in a day.

Ed, Can you go into more detail for me?

I'm not very advanced with receiver functionality...

If I'm listening to music, and I want to get sound from all 5 speakers, I should use Dolby Digital Prologic 2?

How is that going to differ from 5 channel stereo?




Bass,

I'm pretty happy with the JBL E35 center channel... That'll probably be the last speaker I upgrade... First I'll add surrounds and a little later down the road I'll replace my sub...

5 channel stereo duplicates the stereo info in the other speakers without regard for imaging, phase or any sense of coherence.

If differs in that it attempts to synthesize a true surround sound by using phase/timing information in the recording. Sometimes, it can do so fairly well.

Kal gave you some good info. Just to add to that - 5 channel stereo is very simplistic - it just repeats the L&R in the respective surrounds and reproduces the sum of L&R in the center channel. That concept will smear any imaging and produce just awful sound to a critical listener in the sweat spot. However it spreads the entire musical content roughly uniformly all over the place which is what you might want at a party where people are all over the place and not listening to the imaging.

DD PLII is very sophisticated and will do things like keep vocals up front and not smear the images. Every speaker plays different sounds. Sounds tend to be positioned in a logical fashion in the surround field.

Just give it a try. Note that for 2 channel sources, DD PLII and PL IIx *Music* mode gives you 3 parameters to play with to adjust the width and depth to your liking.

Ed

Please explain how to do so.

20% off the list price is fair to you and the dealer. I've noticed a trend that 15-20% is easy to get, and when they're clearing out speakers they give 30-35%, and demos are about 35% off. I would offer 75% of list, but would be willing to pay 80%, and 85% if the hassle factor of going elsewhere is big, but if you don't get 20% off, say that you're going elsewhere to listen to some other speakers and see if that works.

I don't believe you have fatigue if you listen at 40-50 db, and I don't believe you listen at 40-50 db. Do you have a sound meter? A conversation will be over 60 db, so 40-50 db would be very quiet background music.

People have posted that they liked the sound with the new tweeter but I don't think it's a great idea. The crossover design depends on the impedance of each driver at the crossover frequency, and also often includes resistors to adjust the sensitivity (woofers are often the least sensitive so mids and tweeters are brought down to match). If the impedance is different at the crossover frequency or if the sensitivity is different, you may end up with a sound that is less accurate... less well balanced, and possibly with frequency peaks or dips in the lower treble. The new crossover would also not fix the problem because you would be matching it with the old mid-bass driver and would have the same issue.

I might sell my paradigm and look for speakers with non-metal tweeter. That's gonna be a difficult day for me as I still like studio speakers (it looks great!!)

.. sigh ..

10% is a decent deal. Getting 15-20% off is typically reserved for big package purchases (five or more speakers) or when you have a longstanding relationship with the dealer.

I would go with black speakers in your room. You already have a lot of redish wood tones in there (the floors, the couch, the wood fireplace, the trim). Going with black would provide a nice contrast to the existing wood tones while tying in with the coffee table, the TV and the top of the TV console.

You don't need to drop metal tweeters to get non-fatiguing sound, you just need a different metal tweeter, like the one in the Paradigm Signatures or the new Studios. For that mater, you are just as likely to find soft dome speakers that are bright and fatiguing as well. The material of the drivers has little to do with the tonal quality of the sound. For instance, I find Sonus Faber and Dynaudio speakers more forward and ultimately fatiguing (both soft dome speakers) than Paradigm Signatures.

Hawk eye

I agree with you about brite speakers. I found that some degree of brightness (my words)will bring out detail I did not hear before. I am no music expert, just love to listen to all kinds of music.

When I additioned Sig S2, I had dealer set up Studio 100 V3 to A/B both speakers. More detail from the S2 but prefered 100 for Rock and roll. The S2 sound brighter(my word), more detailed with better sound stage than 100.



RJ

I just bought a set of the following

CC370 v4
Monitor 7s v4 (2)
ADP370 v4(2)
AMS-150 in ceiling rear centre (I think I'm close on the model number
SVS PB10-NSD sub

I'm driving them with a Yamaha RXV540 (80 watt/channel 6.1). Is this an ok receiver for this setup?
Which receiver under $700 would be a better receiver for this setup?

Have you done as much as you can with room treatments? (I say that knowing that not all of us can turn their living rooms into recording studios )

If so, then it may be a "synergy" issue between your speakers, and the associated equipment, if you believe in that sort of thing (I do ).

I've gotten different results, with my Studio, driven by the same power amp, but with different preamps (or receiver preouts) upstream.

Bought a pair of these (monitor 11 v.5) along with a cc390 about a week ago. I only listened to the TV. through them. I found them just incredible for TV., so I decided to give them a serious kicking yesterday with some music. My previous system consisted of a limited edition Adcom and Vandersteen 2ci.

Results(driven by a Yamaha RXV 1700 using pure direct)

They play loud enough to part your hair

Highs are bang on but a little sharp right now(they should settle down a bit)

Imaging actually blows the Vandersteens away

Lows are strong, very tight and controlled(no distortion at even extreme levels)

Mids seem a little bit light(Might sound better through my high end Adcom)

Can't waight to get my Adcom amp fixed and take these for a spin.
I am really happy with this purchase.

I live in condo where it has large window throughout the walls. I have shutters put in each side. I would never thought that this would be the case but get this; when I open the shutters and I listened to high freq. oriented music such as Jazz and classical, I cannot even listen no more than like 5 min. I can actually feel the pain building in my ears right from the start.

When I close the shutter, the sound is MUCH sweeter and my pain tolerance goes up. I still feel the pain eventually but it is a lot better.

But I think the problem may be my receiver. Arcam AVR-350 is very revealing sounding device IMO. I think Studio speakers are very revealing system as well.

How do I know this? Before I got my AVR-350, I had really old Yamaha RX-V5XX receiver. My studio 60 sounded great but I can not even reach 50db with that receiver. It simply did not have the power. But I never experience listening fatigue with that setup.

Obviously, once I changed the receiver, it was a night and day difference in terms of sonic experience. However, since I am getting more revealing sound, highs are more ex exposed sounded and bad records sounded good in Yamaha receiver, but under the current setup, no. It will let you know right away.

Thanks Hifi for the reply... I felt kinda stupid asking about the color.. I was kinda torn between the two colors, but I think your right... Dark...

Anyways... Im just starting a relationship with this dealer, and he is a customer of mine, I was originaly going to get the Rotel new from him, but the used deal just fell in my lap, and I couldn't pass it up.. I am going for a full 5 speaker setup, so I was hoping for a good deal, but He deals with some serious heavy hitting buyers at his place, selling Classe amps, and 800 series B&W speaks... the whole line down to the 600's... So my purchase would be pretty menial compared to those higher end lines.

Warp

Thanks dvdguru! This answers my question as well. Very helpful.

[quote=Warpdrv]OK guys... got another question... I got all my stuff together except speaks...
SVS PB12-Plus/2 New
Pioneer VSX-81TXV as a Temp. Pre/Pro, new wholesale
ROTEL RMB-1095 used 4 months $1200

Im going with the Paradigm Studio's 100's, CC-690 Studio 20's rears.. Now...
What should I be looking to get for a price break.. some other guy was posting 15-20% off list, what have you gotten for discount. My dealer offered me less then 10%, and I did not negotiate at that time. Nearest other Digm dealers are 2 hours in different directions.

I see you already made up your mind to go with the black ash, everyone is different, I don't know why you wouldn't want to match your sub? Although I see your sub is not located near your mains, so maybe it would make sense to go with black.
Just wondering where you are going to put the mammoth 690? I don't see it fitting anywhere with your current setup.

p.s. Just one other thing, get rid of that "GOD AWFUL" packers blanket!
Cheers from Minneapolis

[quote=JOHNNYV.3]
LOL.... The Pack is quite the instigation point on this and other forums... I love it..

Alright, now thanks alot for throwing me right back into the color mix again..
I guess my thoughts were that with that beautiful sub, the sticker color on the rosenut would look kinda cheap in comparison..

Anyways... My entertainment console is made of Ash & Cherry, and I already bought some Wood (Ash) and am putting together a platform for that 690 to slide into [-----------------------]
Plasma on top and CC-690 underneath. Gunna stain it the same color as the top.
They call it Espresso http://www.standoutdesigns.com/sd11cn70c_mi.asp

Its a pretty nice product.. all hardwood, and very well made.
Can't wait to order those speakers as Im quickly growing tired of those OLD OLD OLD Polk's. Just don't have the headroom for me anymore...

Warp

Again, no way you couldn't reach 50 db with the Yamaha receiver. Your speakers will reach over 90 db with one Watt (at one metre), so with 2 speakers you should easily be able to reach peaks of over 100 db in a medium sized room. I wonder if you have some processing set because there should at most be a very small sound difference between 2 receivers if both are set flat. What did the Yamaha do to make bad recordings sound good? If the treble is hurting your ears, try turning the treble down a bit... in the short term it would be an easy remedy.

I think this one would be fine, depending on how loud you crank it up. The lowest priced Yamaha (the bottom one or two in the line) are not that good unless you have very efficient speakers. They are small and light and while rated for high power, can't dissipate heat well enough. A friend bought and returned two because the power supply would buzz audibly after playing it loud. He had the Monitor 7 at the time. The mid and upper level Yamaha are larger and don't heat up as much, and from the size of this one, I think you would be fine.

Scheeze where do you live? At the B&M's around here, you're lucky if you can get out the door for as low as list!

[quote]10% is a decent deal. Getting 15-20% off is typically reserved for big package purchases (five or more speakers) or when you have a longstanding relationship with the dealer.[quote]

This is more realistic to what I have found as well.

I am looking to start a dedicated HT, I can't afford new speakers so I was looking at some used Studio 60 v2 to start with. What are some of the differences with the v2, v3 and v4?

Here is what I'm planning:

Fronts: Studio 60v2
Center: CC-470 v3 or v2
Rears: Studio 20 v3 or v2

Is it OK to mix v3 and v2 without any problems?

Thanks in advance,
Brent

[quote=Maximum7]Scheeze where do you live? At the B&M's around here, you're lucky if you can get out the door for as low as list!

[quote]10% is a decent deal. Getting 15-20% off is typically reserved for big package purchases (five or more speakers) or when you have a longstanding relationship with the dealer.
I have to agree with you Max... I haven't tried to negotiate with my dealer, but Im hoping I don't have to drive to one of the other dealers If I don't have to, but I will.

I called these other dealers on the phone, and they wern't willing to discuss price, and I suggested better then 10% -- but they deff. said they would work with me...

I mean really, what are these dealers doing to earn their $$, you walk in the door, they turn the thing on, and then when you buy it, they are just shuffling paperwork. And from what I understand the markup is pretty dam good on speakers.. so they get to make $1500. on a $4000. speaker set. Come ON @!@!

WHAT A RACKET !!!

Well good news, I just found a dealer not so far away, which should gain me some bargaining leverage... woo hoo Always after the good deal..

I use Honeycomb/cellular blinds plus curtains over our windows, seem to help some.

http://www.blinds.com/control/subCategory/categoryID,13

Some speaker's high frequencies can be control by the amount of toe-in (or lack thereof), but first you need to address the windows and your first reflection point to the sides of the 60s.

Monitor 7 v3 mains
CC370 v3 center
atoms v3 surrounds
pdr-10 v2 sub
Yamaha rx-v2200 reciever
upcoming Yamaha dvd-s2700 dvd player

You've gotta be kidding me. How hard is it to poke around your receiver and change some parameters. And if you're really stuck, there is something called a manual. Besides I don't even know which receiver you have or what its interface looks like.

Ed

OK, I think the main problem is how untreated my living room is for HIFI listening. I placed some cushions on the walls beside speakers (1st reflection point?) Wow.. that isolated sound much better. My ear pain is almost gone now. I think if I place some kind of non reflective panels properly around walls, I can eliminate the problem that I am having.

I mean I did not know Arcam/Studio setup would require this kind of listening environment for a person to enjoy music. When I had Paradigm Monitor9/Yamaha RX-V569 setup in the same living room, I did not have ear pain so I did not need such room treatment.