Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 205

I would go with the Mini Monitors. The Mini frequency response is 70Hz at the low end while the Atoms go to about 90Hz. This would have some ramifications for your sub...a commonplace crossover for a subwoofer is somewhere around 80Hz. With the Atoms, you would need a subwoofer to do a lot of work at higher frequencies where it may not be as efficient. With the Minis, you can cross over comfortably at 80Hz and forget about it. The Minis can still then be transitioned to be rear speakers at a later date.

So i finally joined the ship and got my first pair of paradigms. i got myself two monitor 7's and im loving them. Though i realy wanted the maggy MG12's my rooms size wouldnt permit it, and these were the closest in the price range to the maggys transparency and detail. but basically they've inspired me to start listening to some hi definition audio cause now i can actually here a difference in it, and im lovin it. Also GUitar Hero is much better with these babies!!

Soup

Hey Everyone:

Just have to say this is one long thread!

Anyway, I'd like to know if anyone who posts on this forum/thread has the following setup:

Paradigm Reference Studio 100 v4, CC690, ADP590. This is the setup that I am trying to go for after all my research and narrowing down and eliminating other speaker choices.

Unfortunately, no dealer close to my area has any of these in stock. I actually called a dealer who was 25 miles away who told me he had them in one of his showrooms and I went out there on a Saturday and he didn't have them at all. What he had was a Reference Studio 20 v3 and a 40 v2, neither one of them were hooked up. Talk about being a little peeved!

So, it seems that in order to audition the Paradigms I'm interested in, I have to purchase them.

My use would be about 85% home theater and I've read nothing but raves for the configuration I mentioned above, so I'd love to hear from someone here who has the same setup that I'm wanting to own.

Also, as a less expensive alternative, I've checked out the Monitor Series v5 - Monitor 11, CC390 and ADP390. It's about half the price of the Reference 100 v4, CC690, ADP590 speakers. Are the Reference series twice as good as the Monitor series and worth the extra expense?

I'm open to other suggestions and appreciate any comments. Thanks!

I have that setup... its amazing, but you really should audition them yourself, there are so many speaker choices, one mans garbage is another mans treasure... Obviously Paradigms are very popular speakers, by the length of the thread alone should tell you. The Studio line is by leaps and bounds better then the monitor line IMO. I personally would not suggest you ask people to tell you they are great, you should visit other HiFi stores to see what else is available to audition and try some other brands.
That really is part of the enjoyment of this hobby, to take your favorite music that you are intimate with and find that golden speaker that tickles your ears in just the right way...

I wouldn't buy speakers that I couldn't listen to first...

Im not saying they are not worth it, just read the last ten pages of this thread, People love these speakers....

Good luck with you trek to find that special set of speakers....

Go back one page in the thread and read through the posts from "ginovino", who is a Paradigm dealer and directly addresses your Studio vs. Monitor question from his point of view. In the end, of course, only you can make up your mind about relative value, but it's probably fair to say that you tend to get diminishing marginal returns as you move up any speaker manufacturer's model line.

After listening to them a few times, I really like the Studios and am eyeing the exact same setup that you are. But the $3,000 savings on a comparable Monitor 7.1 rig would allow me to step up from an AV receiver to decent separates and to acoustically treat my HT room, which could well give me more bang for my bucks.

Ah **** it, maybe I'll just sell a kidney.

Im curious about the frequency response of the atom monitors. Paradigms site says they go to 90Hz, whereas Stereophile conducted there own measurements and stated they go down to 70Hz. Can anybody bring more clarity to this discrepancy.

speaker placement and room will affect the frequency response.also did stereophile
say that was flat or a couple of db down at70hz.

Seconding what oztech said, also Paradigm's site quoted the 90Hz as +/-2dB, so the 70Hz could be attributed to either room acoustics or it could be the low end of the +/-3dB figure...

Low end freq response is not a very good indicator of low end output. What manufactures rarely show is the low end distortion levels, i.e. ?% distortion below 100hz @ ?SPL

You will see many speakers measure +/- 1db down to say 40hz, yet it's the speakers that can play it with low distortion and at higher than whisper spl's.

Take the low end freq response only as a relative indicator to other speakers, but note that when a speaker with a 6" woofer measures +/- 3db to 40hz and a 8" woofer measures the same, obviously one of them will play it at higher spl's with lower distortion than the other and this is VERY noticeable in real life as anyone who's listened to a 6" speaker vs. 8" speaker can attest.

Speaker measurements are done in an anechoic chamber, so reflections/room influences are not a factor.

Also note that when a +/- 3db figure is given, the range is 6db....so if the speaker is +3db @ 150hz and -3db @ 70hz, then 70hz is -6db down from the 150hz point.

here is what stereophile had:

Atom Monitor V.5

Description: Two-way, reflex-loaded, stand-mounted loudspeaker. Drive-units: 1" titanium-dome tweeter, 5.5" copolymer-cone bass/midrange driver with diecast chassis. Frequency responses: 70Hz-20kHz, ±2dB (on axis), 70Hz-16kHz, ±2dB (off axis). Impedance: "compatible with 8 ohms." Sensitivity: 89dB in room, 87dB anechoic. Recommended amplification: 15-80W.

I read through about 50 pages of this thread, and started to get tired. How many of you have done this swap? Are you happy with the results. From what I read, it makes them a bit less harsh. Also how much have you paid for them, and were the dealers reluctant to order them for you.
Thanks in advance.

the change is negligible at best... I auditioned the .v3 and .v4 side by side, as the dealer switched back and forth, I hardly noticed any difference..

just a tinge more stability on the output of the tweet.. I wouldn't think it would be worth the $$ in my eyes to make the change...


Looks to me like sales babble...

Thanks, just trying to find a way to take some of the edge off the tweeter. I am still playing around with my new preamp, to get a better response.

My room is bright as well... I would trim the high end with the eq in the preamp if it has one... My pioneer receiver has that ability with individual channels... I trim them back a bit here too.. they are a tad to bright on some material..

What preamp are you running...?

As a result of the price increase talk, I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the Paradigms. I listened to the Minis and Atoms again and since I have a sub to handle the lows, and I'm not going to be able to crank it up (at least while the wife and kids are home) I decided on the Atoms. They sound so much better than what I had. My wife even commented on how much better they sound.

A guy at an audio shop once told me that the search for improved audio was a dark path. I didn't know what he meant, but after listening up my new Paradigm's, I think I'm starting to understand. I used to think my sub was great, but after listening to the Paradigms, I now hear that my sub is slow and sloppy and I'm going to have to consider getting a new one. :-) A dark path indeed. Regardless, I am still very excited to be a Paradigm owner.

congrats on your purchase!

It would take some doing to top these little wonders for the price. As for the sub, Certainly a MkII version of a HSU sub is likely better than what you have now. You can find several on Videogon.com or Audiogon.com for very good negotiable prices.

Shy away from the brand of the moment i.e.: "Earthquake, SVS" and so on. Stay with the companies who will support you in a year or two.

Am I to gather you went with 4 Atoms? Did you buy the Premier mb-60 wall mounts for them? In not, how are you mounting them?

i may be wrong but i thought that svs has been around since the mid 90's doubt
they are going under any time soon especially at their prices.

You are correct, of course.

It's also the reason I put a big fat "compared to the US dollar" in my original post. Since it's all relative, we have rocketed up compared to the US dollar.

I just purchased a pair of Monitor 11 V.5's form a member here and am very happy so far with them in my theater.....My SVS PB12Plus/2 Rocks and I just added a second SVS (SB12Plus) in the living room for a 2.1 setup. The guys at SVS have been great to buy from and their support has been fantastic. EXAMPLE, I broke the fuse plug the day before Thanksgiving (with family coming over to see the Theater, ok for Turkey but you get the point ) and they overnighted me a NEW AMP!!!! and they worked with me on the phone to by-pass the fuse for the Family Gathering (with a disclaimer of course!!!) They have been great and definitely deserve to be looked at.....

Ginovino - Did you have a bad experience with SVS or are you speaking from other's opinions?
Joe

Some times industry insiders have a perspective not available immediately to the public

Direct marketing companies keep prices low by eliminating manufacturers reps and other middleman, plus savings by manufacturing "on Demand", reducing inventory overstock and wasted expenses. They work on a close profit margin and word of mouth can only take them so far.

You need to realize this brethren of ours is very small versus the vast HT market segment. You forget many folks buy their stuff in Sears, Walmart, costco, Sam's club, Bj's Wholesale to name a few. Along with their TV purchase they just might add a H.T.I.B for $199.00!!!

So think about how many Subs need to be sold in order for a company like SVS to stay liquid! HSU on the other hand has a reputation beyond HT. A good deal of his manufacturing is in sound reinforcement and studio construction. The same holds through for big time names like Bryston

Thanks. Just one pair of Atoms for my fronts right now. In the past few months I've replaced a receiver, DVD player, and all speakers so I'll have to stick with what I've got for the time being...including the sub. It's not the best in the world, but it's still great compared to what I've been using for the past several years (a cheap htib with a 6 in passive sub). I need to lay low on the spending for a while or the wife is going to feel like she needs a new wardrobe to go with my new HT.

The Atoms are on a shelf, so I didn't buy any mounts. I bought them primarily to improve my music listening experience and it's working. I'm hearing things I've never heard before. Even on albums I've been listening to for over 20 years. Everything sounds new to me again and I'm loving it. I wish I would have found out about Paradigm 10 years ago.

Integra DTC 9.8. I think I will try that, instead of using the Audyssey room calibration. I also installed room treatments recently, but since it is a open great room, there is only so much you can do. Bass is much tighter now, just need to play with the highs.

I entertained the idea, emailed Paradigm about it, they stated they disapproved of diy and it would void the warranty of my v3s.

Of course the v4s are so new, don't know how a dealer could get a pair of new tweeters without a warranty return of the old ones, maybe it's doable.

My plan was to later pick up a pair of used 20v4s, and switch the tweeters with my 60s,. (that's assuming they use the same tweeter model across the line?) That way the 60s would match a future 690 center, and the 20s would match my old 470 dipoles.

Whatda say Mr. Gino, do they use the same tweeter across the entire Studio v4 line?

I just purchased a pair of Studio 100's not long before Christmas. Piece-by-piece I'll eventually be able to afford an entire 5.1 system.

ginovino
I was appreciating your information up until this point... SVS has treated their customers extremely well over the years, and stand behind their product better then most any other company I have ever seen. I'd like to see you sending your customer an amp overnight, or replace a driver that fast... please...

I own a full Paradigm system $5.5K (Love them) and have emailed them on a number of occasions, and with their lack of response in anywhere near a timely manner is pathetic, so your claiming that this is a top service company and SVS is a "Flavor of the Month"? What month are you talking about here, as it takes that much time for Paradigm to email me back reguarding any of my questions. SVS will answer my questions via email within 24hrs or less. Or I can call them DIRECTLY and talk to someone immediately, not an answering machine or have to go through my dealer.

Does Paradigm offer a transferrable warrantee, with a legitamate sale? Hell no... Your comments are way out of line here, is it because SVS jepordizes your bottom line. The only sub that Paradigm produces that is competitive of SVS's stuff which is close to double the price range is the Servo 15.v2, now with SVS's Ultra13 for less money, measurements of the Ultra13 trump the best sub that Paradigm makes period, I'll bet your not selling a whole lot of those - because of the internet is giving people a chance to educate themselves and save money while still getting a excellent product. What a shame, you can't rely on the ignorant consumer anywheres near as much as you used to be able to.

Don't talk trash about SVS, they make a quality product, that is better then what you can buy in a store, I'll bet that if you had a chance to profit off them by offering their subs in your store, you would have a different opinion. All your doing here by wrongly portraying them is making an A$$ out of yourself...

inter-direct companies in general have pretty good service....usually much better than a big company like Paradigm. They know service and the new internet forum format is key to increased sales. Big companies either haven't quite figured that out or were just caught off guard by the instant feedback public forums provide.

I tried a internet-direct company....one with a huge fan base (especially on their own forum). I was interested for years and finally went for it last year after much research on their own forum and others + reviews on online mags. Yet unfortunately they were voiced so differently than my Studio 60's (1st version), that I couldn't adapt. The difference was like putting a towel over the midrange and tweeters on the Paradigms to match the online speaker. I expected a little laid backness, yet this was at least -6db down from about 5-6khz on up.

Luckily, as it was, I returned the whole system for a refund. Unfortunately the shipping was on me for the return trip...$170. I knew the risk I was taking and I learned a lesson.

I ended up getting a good deal on Used Studio 60's V.3 which were a very nice upgrade to my V.1's.

I don't expect Paradigm to be as good with CS as the inter-direct guys, yet at least for me, I won't be returning anything to them and I'm very happy with my 60 V.3's audio performance.

No 45 day return policy with Paradigms, from my dealers mouth... "no returns - period" So no in home trial..

The generous inter-direct return policy is of course warranted since stores don't have 'em set up for comparisons to other brands. Paradigm by purpose is a brick-dealer company with NO internet sales allowed. In theory you'd get a good idea what Paradigms are like at the dealer and many good dealers will let you demo at home if you're serious. If their are any warranty probs the dealer of course will handle it....so no shipping costs to the customer, in theory.

They both have pros/cons, yet I and most have no real practical way to demo many different inter-direct speaker brands side-by-side. As generous as the home trial is with the inter-direct speakers I tried, it still cost me $170 with shipping...yet it coulda been twice that since I bought them on special which covered free shipping.

Yea, that's what I was afraid of. I probably need to demo a few different brands to find what I really like, it can easily cost near $1000 and still disappointed. Local store may cost more - for me, it is probably cheaper and more pleasant. However, if you buy a sub for HT, as long as it hits hard and low, sound quality is not the main concern.