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Paradigm Owners Thread - Page 223

post #6661 of 28099
2/13/08 at 11:23am
Hi all,

I currently have the following setup (all V.3): Studio 20's up front, CC-470 in the centre and ADP-170's on the surrounds. I would really like to get a pair of ADP-470's but can't seem to find them ANYWHERE (tried eBay, Craigslist, Kijiji, audiogone, videogone and canuckaudiomart).

So my question is this...are the 470's going to make a noticeable difference in my setup? And if so, where the H3LL to I find them (keeping in mind I would like to stay in the same version)? These are used for home theatre mostly (I do watch quite a bit of 5.1 concert footage).

Thanks in advance!
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post #6662 of 28099
2/13/08 at 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tryguy View Post

Hi all,

I currently have the following setup (all V.3): Studio 20's up front, CC-470 in the centre and ADP-170's on the surrounds. I would really like to get a pair of ADP-470's but can't seem to find them ANYWHERE (tried eBay, Craigslist, Kijiji, audiogone, videogone and canuckaudiomart).

So my question is this...are the 470's going to make a noticeable difference in my setup? And if so, where the H3LL to I find them (keeping in mind I would like to stay in the same version)? These are used for home theatre mostly (I do watch quite a bit of 5.1 concert footage).

Thanks in advance!

Why would you not go with the ADP 590s for the surrounds?

That's what I have -- Studio 20s and a cc 470 up front -- ADP 590s as side surrounds (Atoms as rear surrounds).

See my signature for photos.
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post #6663 of 28099
2/13/08 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigrock66 View Post

I seriously think that you should set your 100's to Large and xover to 80hz. Normally if you select Small, the crossover would be set at 100Hz. In essence your 100's will not get much of a workout. These speakers deserve to work as much as possible...

BR

Ultimately, you should let your room decide where you cross over you mains to your sub by doing freq response tests and charting out your room with test tones and a SPL meter...

I tried to do that x-over at 60hz in my room and found a large suck out at 60hz, but when I put it up to 80hz it was totally smooth response. No dips in the FR.


Does the marantz have separate crossover settings for each speaker...? I wish my receiver had that... That would allow more flexibility.
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post #6664 of 28099
2/14/08 at 6:06am
I just added adp-590's to my current studio v3 setup and am very happy with how they blend together and sound. The tech support guy at paradigm actually said that the milliania surrounds have the same drivers as the studio v3's and would be a better match than the 590's. I still went with the studios.
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post #6665 of 28099
2/14/08 at 7:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLee01 View Post

I just added adp-590's to my current studio v3 setup and am very happy with how they blend together and sound. The tech support guy at paradigm actually said that the milliania surrounds have the same drivers as the studio v3's and would be a better match than the 590's. I still went with the studios.

Thanks for the info! Sounds like the 590's are a very good option. I just cannot understand the absolute scarcity of the 470's.

Cheers
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post #6666 of 28099
2/14/08 at 7:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tryguy View Post

Thanks for the info! Sounds like the 590's are a very good option. I just cannot understand the absolute scarcity of the 470's.

Cheers

I'll try asking again. Why would you want the 470s over the 590s anyway?
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post #6667 of 28099
2/14/08 at 4:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by swgiust View Post

I think you will find most on this thread have their 100's set to small and the cross over in the 40-60hz range. Unless your sub is a major cheapo this is where I would set it.

Excuse my ignorance on this but can you explain why setting to them to small makes sense? My thinking maybe off track and I really need to understand.

Thanks.
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post #6668 of 28099
2/14/08 at 5:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigrock66 View Post

Excuse my ignorance on this but can you explain why setting to them to small makes sense? My thinking maybe off track and I really need to understand.

Thanks.

because on most not all when set to small the crossover can be set ,when
set to large its full range with the lfe going to the sub,as most here have
experimented and found small with a crossover setting 60hz to 80hz or
somewhere in between seems to work best. i know my towers will not
play the last octave with any authority so why strain the amp making it try.
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post #6669 of 28099
2/14/08 at 9:14pm
My local dealer went out of business. He sold his last CC690 (on the floor for about 6 weeks) for $600. I missed it by 1 day. Bummer. He said he just cannot compete with CC and BB.
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post #6670 of 28099
2/15/08 at 6:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

because on most not all when set to small the crossover can be set ,when
set to large its full range with the lfe going to the sub,as most here have
experimented and found small with a crossover setting 60hz to 80hz or
somewhere in between seems to work best. i know my towers will not
play the last octave with any authority so why strain the amp making it try.

Oz,

I appreciate your answer but i am still not convinced. I set my xover to 80 Hz so that everything above 80Hz goes to my mains. Everything below goes to my sub of course. Simple maybe but it works quite well. My Sub is very good at doing it's job 'til that level. My mains (your mains) are excellent at handling >80Hz.

If setting to 50-60Hz causes you grief, why do it? IMO this setting does not make sense and seems to defeat the purpose.

Setting to Small = Speakers cannot perform low frequencies
Xover to 50Hz = speakers are large and can perform very low frequencies
This seems contradictory to me...

I am obviously missing something here (or am I)??

It's not because everybody does it that it's the right thing to do.


BR
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post #6671 of 28099
2/15/08 at 6:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 051473 View Post

My local dealer went out of business. He sold his last CC690 (on the floor for about 6 weeks) for $600. I missed it by 1 day. Bummer. He said he just cannot compete with CC and BB.

That is a bummer. CC and BB kind of suck.
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post #6672 of 28099
2/15/08 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigrock66 View Post

Oz,

I appreciate your answer but i am still not convinced. I set my xover to 80 Hz so that everything above 80Hz goes to my mains. Everything below goes to my sub of course. Simple maybe but it works quite well. My Sub is very good at doing it's job 'til that level. My mains (your mains) are excellent at handling >80Hz.

If setting to 50-60Hz causes you grief, why do it? IMO this setting does not make sense and seems to defeat the purpose.

Setting to Small = Speakers cannot perform low frequencies
Xover to 50Hz = speakers are large and can perform very low frequencies
This seems contradictory to me...

I am obviously missing something here (or am I)??

It's not because everybody does it that it's the right thing to do.


BR

These are just my deep thoughts and perhaps they don't answer your question. However, if you're set to small, sending lows to your sub, your FL/FR speakers are now focused on playing a smaller selected range of frequencies (above xover setting) and theoretically it should reproduce cleaner sound. Similar, to the debate of 2-way vs. 3-way speakers.

I also highly agree with Warpdrv and you should perform many freq response tests and charting out your room with test tones and a SPL meter

Following is a forum link talking about small vs. large that may be helpful. http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...using-sub.html

Don't point and laugh, but for 2-ch stereo only, I've been experimenting with my FL and FR set to large but adjusted frequencies below 83hz (?) down -4db in my manual EQ. I get a good deep base from my sub with a slight extra kick from my FL/FR. Best of both worlds? It's been working for me so far.but, I can't stop tweaking things
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post #6673 of 28099
2/15/08 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasonWire View Post

These are just my deep thoughts and perhaps they don't answer your question. However, if you're set to small, sending lows to your sub, your FL/FR speakers are now focused on playing a smaller selected range of frequencies (above xover setting) and theoretically it should reproduce cleaner sound. Similar, to the debate of 2-way vs. 3-way speakers.

I also highly agree with Warpdrv and you should perform many freq response tests and charting out your room with test tones and a SPL meter

Following is a forum link talking about small vs. large that may be helpful. http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...using-sub.html

Don't point and laugh, but for 2-ch stereo only, I've been experimenting with my FL and FR set to large but adjusted frequencies below 83hz (?) down -4db in my manual EQ. I get a good deep base from my sub with a slight extra kick from my FL/FR. Best of both worlds? It's been working for me so far.but, I can't stop tweaking things

Well, I just got my 100's yesterday and 590's. CC690 will arrive in about 2 weeks. Yesterday, after installation I listened them 2 hours during movie plus about 1 hour music. While movie was much better them my previous setup, music didn't impress me for 3+K difference compared to my previous system ( Magnepan MMG's, Monitor Mini V2 surround + CC270 center). Hovewer today, it's a different story. They really sounds better, may be I was tired yesterday ( and a little sick as well) , but anyway even my wife that wasn't happy about this upgrade heard a difference.

Now, I am playing with Small/Large setting and so far "Small" sounds better. I use my okd PDR-12 sub and tried to set to 50,60,70 and 100's large and I think I like low frequencies when it's small and Sub at 80. What's foing on? I use my 6 year old Marantz SR8200 , no HDMI but sonically still it's great receiver.
Thanks
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post #6674 of 28099
2/15/08 at 2:51pm
Congrats a1sy, I hope you have many years of enjoyment with your new Digm's...

Crossing over your system at 80hz is normal, I tried to use the 60hz cross for a while, but after measuring my room for FR with a sound meter, I found a dip in my FR around where I was crossing over at... You should really let your room decide with test tones and charting the results.

I use a Velodyne SMS-1 which shows the response right on screen and you can make adjustments on the fly and watch the changes after each adjustment, its an expensive toy, but works very well. Its a priceless tool for me and my Dual SVS Plus/2's...

Do you have a Sound meter... from radio shack..? if not get one...

Test don't guess...
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post #6675 of 28099
2/15/08 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Congrats a1sy, I hope you have many years of enjoyment with your new Digm's...

Crossing over your system at 80hz is normal, I tried to use the 60hz cross for a while, but after measuring my room for FR with a sound meter, I found a dip in my FR around where I was crossing over at... You should really let your room decide with test tones and charting the results.

I use a Velodyne SMS-1 which shows the response right on screen and you can make adjustments on the fly and watch the changes after each adjustment, its an expensive toy, but works very well. Its a priceless tool for me and my Dual SVS Plus/2's...

Do you have a Sound meter... from radio shack..? if not get one...

Test don't guess...

Thanks Warpdrv
No I don't have a sound meter, but I am not sure how it will help with Sub and crossover. I might try to get one from radio shack anyway.
Another question, if I leave 100's as large and put my sub around 60Hz, is it right thing to do to adjust power to Max on the Sub ( or close to Max) ? I tried 60 Hz but heard more bass around Max settings on the Sub.
Anyway, I like a look of 100's , it's a little large for my room, but let's see what my wife will say when 690 will arrive
Thanks

Edit 3:23Pm: Just played more and found when fronts set to Large and Sub to Yes, I don't have sound from Sub in Stereo mode. Is it normal? Is there way to get Sub work in Stero mode?
Thanks
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post #6676 of 28099
2/15/08 at 3:29pm
No, don't get the idea you are losing something from your 100's by setting them to small, your taking the burden of producing the low stuff that the speakers can't really handle. That is what the seperate powered subwoofer will handle, and it should blend seemlessly like you won't even notice that there are 2 seperate units at work here..

Yes you need an SPL meter to level match all your speakers at exactly the same volume... Its the proper way to setup your HT system. There is no other way around it. You can let your reciever if it has a mic set it up, but I have yet to find a receiver that will do it all perfectly. I go back after letting the reciever do its thing, and make all the changes after, setting all speakers to small x-over at 80 hz. check distances with tape measure.

Then you can start playing a test tone cd and plot on a chart to see what the decible reading is at each freq. from 120hz all the way down to 20hz and you will then have a chart to tell you your in room freq. response. Checking that chart at all your different x-over settings and choose which one is the smoothest.

I tried 60hz xover and it didn't look good, then set it at 80 hz and the response was really nice... you have some reading and work to do, to get everything perfect...
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post #6677 of 28099
2/15/08 at 3:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

No, don't get the idea you are losing something from your 100's by setting them to small, your taking the burden of producing the low stuff that the speakers can't really handle. That is what the seperate powered subwoofer will handle, and it should blend seemlessly like you won't even notice that there are 2 seperate units at work here..

Yes you need an SPL meter to level match all your speakers at exactly the same volume... Its the proper way to setup your HT system. There is no other way around it. You can let your reciever if it has a mic set it up, but I have yet to find a receiver that will do it all perfectly. I go back after letting the reciever do its thing, and make all the changes after, setting all speakers to small x-over at 80 hz. check distances with tape measure.

Then you can start playing a test tone cd and plot on a chart to see what the decible reading is at each freq. from 120hz all the way down to 20hz and you will then have a chart to tell you your in room freq. response. Checking that chart at all your different x-over settings and choose which one is the smoothest.

I tried 60hz xover and it didn't look good, then set it at 80 hz and the response was really nice... you have some reading and work to do, to get everything perfect...

Thanks man, going to continue experiments. A lot of fun and headache
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post #6678 of 28099
2/15/08 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by a1sy View Post

Thanks man, going to continue experiments. A lot of fun and headache

Once you get everything set, you shouldn't have to make changes, it makes all the difference in the world and provides you with the Best HT environment. Its Worth it...
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post #6679 of 28099
2/15/08 at 4:24pm
Warpdrv
I ask few posts before about stereo mode.
Should Sub work when I choose a stereo mode and speakers as Large? Is it just my configuration or it's normal that it doesn't work?. I would like to see how it sound with Large/Stereo/Sub combination but can't figure out yet how to do it..
Thanks
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post #6680 of 28099
2/15/08 at 4:52pm
I am not familiar with your Marantz... I would head over to the receiver/amp section and ask maybe in the Marantz thread... I would consider that something that would be in your receiver settings...
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post #6681 of 28099
2/15/08 at 4:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Congrats a1sy, I hope you have many years of enjoyment with your new Digm's...

Crossing over your system at 80hz is normal, I tried to use the 60hz cross for a while, but after measuring my room for FR with a sound meter, I found a dip in my FR around where I was crossing over at... You should really let your room decide with test tones and charting the results.

I use a Velodyne SMS-1 which shows the response right on screen and you can make adjustments on the fly and watch the changes after each adjustment, its an expensive toy, but works very well. Its a priceless tool for me and my Dual SVS Plus/2's...

Do you have a Sound meter... from radio shack..? if not get one...

Test don't guess...

Does the SMS-1 work on the full frequency range (if I put it between my pre-pro and amp), or is it just for the subwoofer range (e.g. 10-100 or so)?
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post #6682 of 28099
2/15/08 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Does the SMS-1 work on the full frequency range (if I put it between my pre-pro and amp), or is it just for the subwoofer range (e.g. 10-100 or so)?

The SMS-1 is a dedicated Subwoofer EQ.

Its really a great unit... what are you running or going to be running for a sub AbMagFab. When do you get your Speakers buddy..?

Looks like I will be joining you in the Signature realm.... although they will be .v1 S4's and a C3. The S4's are brand new, unopened box. In the rare Rosenut...
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post #6683 of 28099
2/15/08 at 5:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

The SMS-1 is a dedicated Subwoofer EQ.

Its really a great unit... what are you running or going to be running for a sub AbMagFab. When do you get your Speakers buddy..?

Looks like I will be joining you in the Signature realm.... although they will be .v1 S4's and a C3. The S4's are brand new, unopened box. In the rare Rosenut...

Congrats on the Sigs! You'll love them!

I already ordered the PB13-Ultra. I wanted to make sure I had it in time for the speakers, and since they won't be shipping until early March, I thought there might be a risk if I waited.

Dumb question - is there such a device that is like the SMS-1 (with that level of granularity), that will sit between a pre-pro and amp (bridging in the analog outs), and allow me to equalize all the channels? I like the SMS-1, I just wish it did more than the sub frequencies.
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post #6684 of 28099
2/15/08 at 5:21pm
Im sure there is something like that, but unaware of it.. your starting to add alot of links in the chain at that point... IMO that would start to degrade signal, but I'm sure its been done... I don't usually get that complicated.
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post #6685 of 28099
2/15/08 at 5:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

The SMS-1 is a dedicated Subwoofer EQ.

Its really a great unit... what are you running or going to be running for a sub AbMagFab. When do you get your Speakers buddy..?

Looks like I will be joining you in the Signature realm.... although they will be .v1 S4's and a C3. The S4's are brand new, unopened box. In the rare Rosenut...

You will have to post a couple of pics when you have them set up. What will you do with your 60's, or do you have the 100's?

DN
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post #6686 of 28099
2/15/08 at 5:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Im sure there is something like that, but unaware of it.. your starting to add alot of links in the chain at that point... IMO that would start to degrade signal, but I'm sure its been done... I don't usually get that complicated.

How else do you fully equalize the signal? The 905 has the Audessey EQ in it, but that's only 8 frequencies.
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post #6687 of 28099
2/15/08 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpnaugle View Post

You will have to post a couple of pics when you have them set up. What will you do with your 60's, or do you have the 100's?

DN

Shhhh this is for my bedroom setup... I will post pics though. As I haven't been wow'd by the SVS MTS-01 setup and its going back, I pulled the trigger on the Sigs, knowing that I love my Studio setup, I can't imagine that I would not be thrilled to death with the Sigs even though its only .v1, but I got a smokin deal on them, so I couldn't pass it up...

Although it will only be 3 channel, I will have to figure out what I'm going to do for side surrounds on the cheap. Room is too small for big bookshelves on the walls.

I will be looking for suggestions for a switchable bipole/dipole side surround that sits nicely snug on the wall like an ADP. Just not so expensive.

I would really like a switchable bipole/dipole unit though so I can choose.
Any thoughts...?
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post #6688 of 28099
2/15/08 at 5:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

How else do you fully equalize the signal? The 905 has the Audessey EQ in it, but that's only 8 frequencies.

I'm not sure what your getting at here... You already bought some of the best speakers one can get... Very Clean, Very Accurate. Most people go out of their way to buy speakers that will reproduce sound accurately so they don't have to monkey with any equalization.

Many out there are of the mind frame that contamination of any signal is unpure... just a thought..

You seem to have some great equipment, thats the best part, play it clean and you will be very very impressed....

I personally don't like to have to mess with EQ on my output response....

Subs are one thing, full range sound is another... don't mess with the signal, its supposed to be clean.
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post #6689 of 28099
2/15/08 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

I'm not sure what your getting at here... You already bought some of the best speakers one can get... Very Clean, Very Accurate. Most people go out of their way to buy speakers that will reproduce sound accurately so they don't have to monkey with any equalization.

Many out there are of the mind frame that contamination of any signal is unpure... just a thought..

You seem to have some great equipment, thats the best part, play it clean and you will be very very impressed....

I personally don't like to have to mess with EQ on my output response....

Subs are one thing, full range sound is another... don't mess with the signal, its supposed to be clean.

Huh, okay... I just figured if you have to mess with the sub frequencies, the rest of the frequency range could be just as effected by the room.

I guess I should next invest in room/wall treatments... I asked a few questions on that before, but they got blown away during the AVS-blackout a couple weeks ago...
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post #6690 of 28099
2/15/08 at 6:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Huh, okay... I just figured if you have to mess with the sub frequencies, the rest of the frequency range could be just as effected by the room.

I guess I should next invest in room/wall treatments... I asked a few questions on that before, but they got blown away during the AVS-blackout a couple weeks ago...

Now we're talking... room treatments are a great step, far better then inline EQ IMO.... Bass Freq's are far more easily degraded and lost then higher freq's. Sub Eq's can really tighten up bass response...

The SMS is a great tool, but SVS will be releasing an new Sub EQ that will anylize a group of seating positions instead of just 1 like the SMS, and It utilizes audyssey as its engine should be quite an impressive unit.

Take your time, get your system setup and see how it performs, and then anylize what your next steps should be... It will be great, and you can make small improvements, one at a time... thats the fun part, just tightening up your system 1 little bit at a time...
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