The "Official" Denon AVR-4806 Thread - Page 2

Thanks, Hyabusha

Have you listened to the 4806 internal amps, and if so, how do they compare?

Nice amps Hyabusha I have them in my rack as well. I also have a 57swx20b. You should send that display device 1080i YCrCb. The native resolution on the xws series is 540p and 1080i. If you sent it anything other than 1080i, the Hitachi will scale the signal again (not a good thing)

What dvd player are you using?

And to answer moonhawk's question as to how the internal amps compare, IMO they don't. Your talking about ($8000 retail) 280lbs of Monster amps vs a "current limited" A/V receiver, it's not even close.

Haybusha, I guess I answered my own question when I saw you're on the 3910 thread. Your front-end and display device are exactly the same as mine, good stuff.

I have my 3910 hooked directly to the Hitachi via DVI and I use the component video switching in the 4806 for X-Box and HD Cable. I'm not a hard core videophile but I remember reading something in the review at Secrets on the 3910 about HDMI vs DVI connection between the 3910 and the xsw series Hitachi (Kris has one too). I tried both and I got a better picture from a DVI connection with the xws series displays.

BTW, I'm using IEEE 1394 between the 3910 and 4806. I'm not a fan of proprietary solutions.

The issue of proprietary vs. standard is irrelevant if you already own the appropriate gear. I find the D-Link connection to work flawlessly with all audio formats, though I presume the 1394 connection does the same.

WRT the HDMI switcher on the 4806, I agree with Hyabushaha that the convenience of having every video source supplied to the 4806 sent over the hdmi connection to the display through one connection really outweighs the shortcomings, which for me is apparently none, so that makes my choice easier.

That might change if there were a noticeable degredation in video, but I have not seen that, and my display has only a DVI connection on it. I can see no difference in the picture between hdmi from the 3910 to the dvi on the display compared to dvi on the 3910 to the dvi on the display. That is probably why I see no difference going through the 4806.

Allen

I don't need any upconversion, both my DVD player and my HD PVR are being received by the display device in 1080i. I have a Harmony 880 remote so switching between activities is only one button away.

I'm in the business and sell lots of this gear. I have had issues with PQ when using HDMI sources with DVI display devices. I'm my personal set-up, the Denon 3910 looks better hooked up via DVI output to display device DVI input. I'm not talking about "I think it looks better", I'm talking about ISF calibrated results. If you have the cables, give it a shot.

I have the cables, and I have tried it both ways. On my display (Sony XBR34960CRT) there is no discernable difference. Of course you get different results, so your choice is understandable.

BTW, the 4806 does not upconvert, other than from analog to digital. The resolution remains unchanged.

Allen

What types of problems have you seen? I am considering using HDMI out from my receiver to DVI on my TV for all connections.

Thanks!

I'm sure it will look fantastic. There is no problem with using an HDMI source with a DVI display device. With the Denon DVD-3910 which has DVI and HDMI outputs, I have seen better "measured" results using a DVI-DVI connection.

does the 4806 display the gui via hdmi?

yup!

Spizz and others...

The 4806 can be "tricked" into supporting two subs. I just did it this weekend, and it worked like a champ. After auto-cal, the delay distance equals the distant sub. MultEQ thinks there is only one sub. The Audyssey low frequency curve in our reasonably good room with reasonably good sub and seating placement after auto cal looked text book classic on a good RTA with at least 1/12th octave res. Sounds fabulous!

If any of you can get hold of a good RTA, you would be wise to use it as you go through auto cal on the 4806, especially with regard to what EQ program you wish to use. You may choose whatever you subjectively wish, but a good RTA will tell you a lot. There will never be an "auto" calibration program that will not require and benefit from verification and "management" to get it to nominal performance. MultEQxt is capable of superb results, or some pretty bad ones. A decent room renders results in the Audyssey curve that are almost identical to the JBL Synthesis Curve (especially the low end), and at a fraction of the price. But not without reasonable verification and some possible additional passes at the auto-cal. The response of the LCRs takes more attention, but can also render incredibly good results. I've never seen a program that could EQ surrounds well, but MultEQ does so in spectacular fashion.

Bravo, Audyssey.

Did you just have them hooked up with a splitter, or what?

Cam Man,

Glad to hear that you're getting good results.

Something that would be *very * interesting would be to test Audyssey's claims of improving response over a large area.

Have you measured the response at different locations within the seating area?

Thanks

I have not measured solely at specific points. I have only averaged across the listening area. I did take a look at each briefly and saw no significant change. I will look closer and let you know.

Two subs are fairly easy, but requires more gear. Provided that neither of your subs is in a terrible standing wave location, all you need to do is delay the nearest sub by the difference to show center, then set the two subs at relative levels of 70dB. This will require two channels of a device that has the ability to delay and adjust gain. Okay, it's not a budget fix. But it works great. Y out of 4806 sub out. The two sub "channels" then go into seperate channels of a digital delay or PEQ with delay. The difference in distance is added to the closer sub, then levels matched using the 4806 manual tone, the gain in the outboard device, and an SPL meter. Then the outs of the delay device go to their respective subs/amps. The propogation factor of the delay device is not factored since it affects both sub channels equally. On auto-cal, MultEQ hears the subs arrival time and level as the same, and is not confused; it thinks it hears only one sub.

Here is a great convenience feature of the 4806 (and 5805) to try. The surround User Memories (the 4806 has three) can be configured to provide an easy way to configure for movies with theatrical sound mixes (a THX mode), a second for non-theatrical mixes (a DD/dts mode with back surround as you like), and the third for multi-channel music...or however you like. Saves a ton of time and screw ups.

I was just getting to a closer look at the user memory section of the setup. That scheme sounds like a plan, not only for the various surround modes but for the switch from surround a to surround b for music.

Allen

I guess I should add that it helps to be using good speakers. I'm sure you all are at this price point of AVR, but you never know. One thing that I'm sure we are all still getting used to is what to do with bass management with MultEQ.

By the way, before you get too enamoured with your 4806es, you should know there is a firmware upgrade for MultEQ coming very soon. I hear it provides numerous significant upgrades and improvements. I don't know how it will be distributed and installed, but I should know in a week or so.

"The surround User Memories (the 4806 has three)"

I would be really stoked if this is true. I need to EQ to two different listening areas because I swing the couch out for movies.

But at least I'm confused on this point; in the big 5806 thrread Chris said there are three EQ curves, but only one is the Audyssey target curve; the other two are Flat and Front and not recommended.

"there is a firmware upgrade for MultEQ coming very soon. I hear it provides numerous significant upgrades and improvements."

Interesting; I thought the "upgrade" was to get MultEQ just to work on all 5805's.

But I sure hope you're right; any hints as top what kinds of improvements?

Oh, one more thing - any definitive word on the 4806 being upgradable to support DD+ and DTSHD?

Thanks a lot.

Unfortunately, there are not memories for different positions. Just different target curves. I agree with Chris on the target curve...at least for now. The Audyssey is the only one I have taken a good look at and measured.

In fact, Chris gave me a heads up on the firmware before the 4806 arrived. He did tell me a little about the improvements, but I suspect he should do the honors. The one he told me of relates to mic calibration curve to eliminate/improve the sometimes harsh result after auto-cal.

I have no good contact deep within Denon that could answer your upgrade question. I think I will be satisfied if it is backwards compatible to current sound formats.

" Unfortunately, there are not memories for different positions."

Darn.

"Just different target curves."

Only one of which is the Audyssey, like I mentioned above?

Does MultEQ stay engaged for the 2-ch stereo mode?

Thanks again

The 5805 and 4806 have 3 User Modes that store the currently set Input Source, Input Mode & Surround Mode. That's all they store though.

MultEQ can be set for all modes or assigned manually. You also have the option in the menus to apply it to the Direct/Pure Direct modes.

how fast are the improvements on the audio side from a denon avr-4800 to the avr-4806?

I don't need all the HDMI,DVI switching, etc. I have a dedicated lumagen video processor. I am just looking to what improvements have been made on teh audio audio side.

my current setup

avr-4800 +
oddysee Khartago 2 channel Amp for 7 channels total.

the oddysee handles the front two speakers and the denon handles the center and 4 rear speakers.

I had exactly that setup except I had the Denon 2 channel amp that paired with the 4800 powering my fronts. The biggest improvements I see if you disregard the video switching are the more complex THX, Dolby and DTS modes, including the UltraII, PLIIx and NEO6, and the biggest single improvement the audyssey Equalization. You also get better dacs, and it can digitally receive SACD and DVDAudio either through D-Link if you have the right Denon DVD player or through I-link if not.

Pure sonic improvements are probably real, but not as noticeable as the above. The Audyssey stuff is worth the price of admission by itself IMHO.

Allen

I guess one thing he has already leaked is that it will 'fix' the omnidirectionality of the microphone (I know it is software not hardware...) so you don't have to point it at the speakers to try and get accurate measurements. Should also help with one issue I have noticed on mine: it tends to 'overcorrect' the high end a bit too hot (boosting the two high bands on my front speakers +6 = introducing some harshness to the sound )

The harshness problem is specifically a fix in the new firmware.

Here is surprise....and maybe a disappointment. Despite what MultEQ does regarding speaker size and crossover, when a THX mode is selected, the crossover reverts to 80Hz. Did anybody see that in the owner's manual? I missed that one completely...if it is there. That would be a good thing for Denon to put in their manual to tell us. I have to think about this. Presuming that for any theatrical mix, we would want the THX post-processing to give us the nominal translation to the home theater, we would choose a THX mode. More and more titles are being mixed for the home theater, and theoretically would not require THX post-processing for them. So, that could leave us with two different playing fields with regards to our bass management. Not sure how I feel about this.

I guess that despite the quirk this brings to bass management, the benefits of what MultEQ does otherwise far outweighs this...at least for me.

BTW, my source is Audyssey.