The "Official" Denon AVR-4806 Thread - Page 3

No that is not a surprise, because 80hZ is the THX spec for sub crossover setting. So if you want to use the THX mode/post-processing, then you also get whatever non adjustable spec settings that are also part of it.

Is Audessey otherwise still engaged in THX mode?

I would say yes based on the osd.

Allen

Any time, any unit, when THX is activated all crossovers are set to 80hz, that's just part of THX and THX speaker systems.

dc

I'm looking into this further because I discussed this with a friend who says he has measured this to the contrary...and he is really good with this sort of thing. He says has specifically measured electrically for the change. I will check more of the details with him, and get back. Audyssey may have meant a THX mode in the speaker setup rather than a THX post processing mode. I will get clarification from them.

Are the digital video ins and out of the 4806 HDCP compliant?

Yes.

Allen

You don't need to use a THX mode for too-bright movies. The 4806 has a Cinema EQ that will tone them down without mucking up your crossover settings. See page 54 in the manual.

That has always been a very aggressive curve...considerably more so than the THX re-eq curve.

I was playing around last night and set all speakers to large and sub to none. After engaging THX processing all speakers remained large. I turned the sub to "on" and still no bass management on THX processing mode. This is easy to verify on 5.0 titles. So much for that theory...

The MultEQ "upgrade" is only for the 5805s.There is no plan for a 4806 upgrade any time soon. That is the info from Denon as of this morning.Yep, there is a lot of confusion on this one

" The MultEQ "upgrade" is only for the 5805s."
Does that mean the 5805's MultEQ is better, or does it just bring it to the level of the more recently released 4806?

Thanks

I have a quick question. When watching DVDs (DVD 3910 hooked to AVR 4806 using
Denon link and DVI to HDMI cable) the projected image has a background of faint tiny dancing sparkles.
This is not seen with any other video feed (computer, TV, etc.). The DVD is set
for 720p output. Once in a while I play with the DVD/AVR settings and the sparkles
disappear. However I do not know what I have done to make them go away and I cannot
reliably eliminate them (most of the time I can't eliminate them).

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. If anyone can help I have an extra Denon DMS-305 mic I would gladly send your way.

Regards,
-jerry

Jerry,

You only describe one cable for video. As you are asking the question here I assume you are feeding the 3910 video to the 4806 and from there to the projector. What cable links the 4806 to the projector, and what kind of projector is it? Does the same thing happen when you cable the video from the 3910 direct to the projector?

Allen

Allen,

Thank you for your reply. The projector is an H79 connected via Gefen digital optic fiber to the 4806.

The fact that I do not always have the sparkles, or they occasionally have gone
away with settings manipulation leads me to believe that cables may not be the issue. Note, when I use a different source feed into the 4806, such as TV or computer, there are no dancing sparkles. The sparkles are related to the 3910 DVD source. I do not know if some setting on either the 3910 or 4806 is wrong. I will try HDMI - HDMI cable from 3910 to the 4806 (instead of DVI - HDMI cable). Your diagnostic idea of plugging directly from 3910 to the projector is a thought and I will post the result.

Thanks,
-jerry

Did anyone get a chance to compare the 4806 to the Marantz SR-9600 ?

Jake SM -
''Vous fabriquons un pays Ã* partir d'un morceau de l'Allemagne et n'avez-vous toujours pas les boules Ã* tenir près de nous dans un combat ? ''

Don't like to nitpick but you might want to change that to something along the lines of:
''Vous fabriquez un pays Ã* partir d'un morceau de l'Allemagne mais n'avez toujours pas les couilles de vous tenir près de nous dans un combat''

I just received my 4806 (still in the box, waiting for the rack/cabinet), and am awaiting a 3910 as well. Can someone tell me the best way to hook these two together. I assume the Denon Link is the best, along with an HDMI cable. With the Link, will I still need the 6 analog cables for SACD/DVD-A?

Thanks!

:-jon

I don't think you will need them, but if you have some handy, hook them up and compare the sound...

Then let us know which you prefer....

I would use denon link since the measurements I saw showed it had the lowest jitter. I-link however was not far behind so probably not an audible difference. Dont use the HDMI for audio, it is prone to jitter at least in the denon.

Adam

The MultEQ is the same 'level' in the 4806 and 5805. They will use a more limited version in some other (cheaper) models.

The 5805's did get an earlier iteration that had some issues with bass management.

Can we get a little more chatter from you 4806 owners?

Another weekend has come and gone so a lot of tweek'n and chang'n and fiddl'n should have taken place. Maybe you are all locked in your home theater rooms laughing at all of us non owners.

Yeah, that about sums it up. Once you find out that it pretty much works as advertised it is harder to make the comparisons between all the available surround modes and combinations.
Allen

Okay, (after a couple of weeks) I would say that you can push MultEQ too far with regards to mic positions for the auto cal. This also depends on the type of speakers you have and their off axis fall off rates. I experimented with two of the eight positions at pretty wide extremes. The result, as one might expect, was for MultEQ to try to compensate for the reduction in HF response, resutling in a harsh high end. If the mic positions are kept in a central zone of the seating area (maybe four seats wide) distributed well (at each of the four seats and a couple forward and aft of seating a couple of feet), then I still contend this is a revolutionary product. The dialogue clarity, overal definition and synergy of the sound field is a leap ahead of where it was...which was as good as it gets done manually (Klipsch Ultra 2 speakers calibrated with a digital parmetric EQ to 1/12th octave resolution). After the proper MultEQ auto cal, the uniformity of spectral balance of L, C, R, and all surrounds is amazing and, frankly, probably better than could be done manually in less than a couple of hours, if ever.

I cannot put my finger on how it is doing it or how to make an objective verification. An RTA shows some of what is happening above 80Hz, but I hear much more improvement than I am able to see in frequency and amplitude. Maybe there are good things going on in the time domain that I cannot measure. Same for below 80Hz, but that was already acoustically very strong.

On repeated auto cals I see the same distance delays showing up +/- .1 feet. The Klipsch KL-650-THX, unlike most THX certified speakers, is 3dB down at 56 Hz rather than the typical 80Hz. MultEQ repeatedly chooses large and a crossover at 60Hz. Impressive.

Allen can you clarify this?

With the 4806 I can go to my 3910 via D-Link and the 3910 to my Sony via HDMI and the OSD will work? Or do I need a link from the 4806 to the Sony? In reading the manual it appears that if you make one HDMI connection then everything need to be conneceted via HDMI.

I was primarily referring to the number of setting options between the components making it more likely to have a settings mismatch. Once I corrected my carelessness it was fine.

The D-link is for audio only, so has no affect on the video connections. You need to also connect the 3910 to the 4806 for video, presumably with the HDMI connection if you are using HDMI to go from the 4806 to the Sony.

The OSD from the 4806 works over the HDMI connection, except it switches the picture to something that looks like 480i temporarily while the OSD is active, returning to high res when you cancel the OSD. The OSD from the 3910 works just fine also, but without the resolution change.

EDIT: I reread your question. You can mix connections to the 4806, and have them all go out on the HDMI to your display. Currently I have 2 HDMI inputs (3910, HDTivo), 1 component (CD-DVD jukebox), and a couple of S-video connections (SD DirectTivo, DVD Burner). All are output through the HDMI to the display.


Allen

Cam Man,

"An RTA shows some of what is happening above 80Hz, but I hear much more improvement than I am able to see in frequency and amplitude. Maybe there are good things going on in the time domain that I cannot measure."

Well, Audyssey made some pretty high falutin' claims for the time domain corrections MultEQ is capable of; I guess they're being borne out.

I'm assuming I can get better "quality" video with the 3910 direct to the display via HDMI instead of having it go through the 4806 to the TV. Audio would be handled by DL3. An optical would go from the TV out to the 4806 for sound from the cablecard. That would leave how to get video from the 4806 to the TV for the OSD.

Don't be terribly surprised that Denon may not have a clue that the MultEQ upgrade is coming for the 4806. My source is Chris at Audyssey.


This is not true with the 4806. We near field measured a Klipsch KL-650-THX with EQ off in DD mode. The speaker is down 3dB at 56 Hz rather than the typical 80 Hz spec. When THX post processing was engaged, the speaker's response did not change to 3dB down at 80 Hz. I have not tested to see if it changes if "LFE THX" rather than "LFE+Main" is selected in the sub configuration menu.

Now that introduces another "problem" we have discovered. If you have a speaker that MultEQ identifies as Large, and you choose "LFE+Main" in the subwoofer configuration menu, you will find that the front and center show a "crossover" value. This in not really a crossover. Quoting my friend who did the measuring: "The EQ filter rolls off the response of the main speaker, but it's not phase coherent with the signal output by the subwoofer. It may LOOK like a crossover, but it doesn't PERFORM like a crossover. The roll-off of the main speaker (due to the EQ filter) and the roll-off of the subwoofer (due to an arbitrary low-pass filter) will not integrate properly. The sub and the main speakers will be duplicating the low frequencies. If you choose to go this way, you're basically remixing the soundtrack in a crude way to match your system. " Presuming we want a faithful, accurate reproduction of the mix, this is not a configuration to go with. This was all confirmed by electrical measurement rather than acoustic.

If you want the speaker to have a 60Hz crossover that will properly integrate with the sub, there is a way to do it. I'll be back with that.

Actually, no. The video through the 4806 to the display appears identical to the video directly to the display from the 3910. That's the benefit of a digital connection, it does not degrade through the intermediate connection. The OSD works fine on the HDMI to the display. If you were using a component connection to the 4806, and then HDMI to the display, and it was an analog display (CRT), then going direct to the display with the component cable "might" avoid degradation from the analog to digital to analog progression being removed from the chain. My only component in is SD, and I see no loss of "quality".

Allen

Thanks.