Samsung 1080p Owner's Thread --- HLRxxx8W DLP Models - Page 14

It was known very early on that the TV would accept 1080p from a PC over the VGA port, but what Schaeffer et al. have apparently discovered is that the TV can also accept 1080p from a PC over the HDMI port.

Question for all of you who have actually received your set: Could you please post a list of items of what actually came with your set? I'm interested to know what cables I will need to buy...

No, you don't know that for sure. You don't know that the limiting factor in displaying 1080P is the 9021 or the graphics card.

It could very well (and probably more likely to be) that the rest of the TV circuitry is not designed to handle/display a 1080P signal properly. For all you know, some of the problems schaffer970 reported as seeing are due to the rest of the TV circuitry mis-processing the 1080P image since it was not spec'ed (and probably not designed) to handle it. For example, the circuitry might process the 1080P signal like it is a 1080i signal, this would produce an image but it would be messed up in the highly detailed areas.

It is possible that the only circuit Samsung cheapened out on was the 9021 speed sort, but I would doubt it. Most likely they need to improve more than just the 9021. It may not just be an issue of speed, but how they are processing the data.

For all your criticism of Gazelle, I see you going off half-cocked posting in several threads, with pointers to this thread as proof that the Samsung set can handle a 1080P input. I'm not saying that it can or can't, but I have not seen anything here that demonstrates that it can, in spite of Samsung's own spec's that say it can't.

Which specs are you talking about?

The only specs I've seen are the ones available on Samsung's website in their DLP TV section. For all of the HLRxxx8 models, the only high-def capable video connection that mentions a format restriction is the Component Video input (restricted to 480i/p, 720p, and 1080i).

Would be curious to see any Samsung material that mentions a format restriction on the HDMI inputs.

Check the "specs" link for xx78 on the first page of this thread. It's pretty clear what HDMI accepts (hint: it is not 1080p). Also look in the User Manual (p114, or p141 in xx68), it also implies 1080p can only be received via PC...
---

,,,,Can someone please test the Digital Out using an HDMI source????Should take no longer than 5 minutes and would answer one of the main questions asked within this forum...thx

What would count as definitive proof that the TV can display a 1080p signal coming over HDMI, since "Well, the TV says that it's a 1080p signal" doesn't seem to count? Is there no way of knowing for sure apart from using a high-speed camera with the ability to take 120 pictures per second? Are those who take one side of the other always going to have the benefit of plausible deniability?

Tune in next week for the next episode... same bat time, same bat channel.

Ddisplay,

One other point is that his display is reporting 1080p and the display reports
1080i when receiving 1080i, etc. This is a good indication ( but not an absolute
confirmation ) that it just might possibly be processing 1080p - ya think?

Best regards,

Tony "half-cocked" DeLuce

P.S. 1080p should be the easist format for the set to deal with since it does not
have to de-interlace or convert the image - it simply has to map the pixels to the DMD.

I concur that I am not absolutely sure but I believe there are strong indications
that it is possible...

Hey folks, lets calm down. I've been trying to get things to work and they do - but not overly well on the 1920x1080 DVI/HDMI front. AkaStp - I apologize, what the set says is 1920x1080i 60Hz. I don't know what to make of that. I have tried to use 30Hz and that works but not really better than 60Hz. My son brought up his computer with a Nvidia 6600GT and things looked about the same as on my older/slower computer. We tried various settings but nothing seemed to jump out as the obvious solution. These computers are set up with WinXP - not media edition. There might be some additional features there. Clearly we are getting 1920x1080 over DVI/HDMI but there are issues that need to be resolved. The manual gives some timings for the VGA port - I don't know if these will also apply to the HDMI port.

I would agree that if someone has a scaler that puts out 1920x1080P that would be a great test to see what happens. We've only had the sets in our hands a few days it will take some time to get everything worked out.

Well, if a couple of others can confirm using a PC that would be good too. Snazio DVD player which can output 1080p would be another good way to do that ... and I guess there may be a scaler or two that can do it as well ... or a MAC !!

With the display reporting 1920x1080i, the set could be forcing the
PC to output 1080i60fps but I don't know enough about the video cards
you are using to know "for sure" :-)

This seems less likely of a possibility now that I have the above information,
but I am not completely ruling it out. I agree that a 1080x1920p scaler would be
a great test.

I have done some testing with my PC and the DVI->HDMI cable that came with my Samsung 950 DVD. I have a NVidia G4 4400 with 128MB (I know it is a couple years old.) I D/L the latest Driver which came out in June of '05. Anyway at first I could only find the basic settings and when I put the Resolution at 1920 x 1080 the display way OK but text wasn't super readable. Many lines through it like it was interlaced. I then was able to try 1920 X 1080 at 60 HZ Progressive and the PC came up with a message Unsupport Mode. I then Tried it with 1920 x 1080 Interlaced and it worked though again text very hard to read. Anyway there were quite a few variables here in the settings and timing and modes I would say it would take about 3 hours to try all the settings and I have to work tomorrow. I wish I had a new video card to test this better.

In any event I couldn't get it to work in the Progressive mode. Could be due to older video card. Will do more testing with this tomorrow.

I got my 6168 today and also tried 1920x1080p via HDMI/DVI on my Linux PC with nVidia 6600 card. I seem to be getting the same result as schaffer970 and dealer92 -- TV reports 1920x1080 interlaced and text looks blurry. Unfortunately, nVidia's Linux driver seems broken and I can't play video.

VGA 1920x1080@60Hz works fine although with a little too much underscan especially on the left/right. Anyone with a good modeline they can share?

So basically, we need some hardcore HTPC/gamer to hook this DLP up to his "modern" ATI video card x800/x850 and see if it can work well with 1080p via DVI. All the reports so far have been with outdated videocards.

Then we need a hardcore xbox/ps2 gamer to sit down and play some FPS and tell us if there is any noticable lag.

If I can get answers to those 2 questions, I'm going to give Fry's my money for this set.

Well, I've had my 5668 since last Wednesday and have had some time to test it. While I will say it's the best TV I've owned, it's crippled!

My test system consists of the 5668, an iScan HD+, Denon DVD-2910 connected through SDI, DirecTivo, and a Mac Mini. There's some other equipment, but it's irrelevant for this test. I connected the iScan via VGA as well as HDMI. Mac Mini was connected directly via VGA as well as HDMI.

The TV will NOT accept a 1080p signal on the HDMI input. We can put that to rest, it doesn't work. I connected both the iScan and Mac Mini and the TV just reports "Mode not supported." On the iScan I used both 50 and 60Hz and neither worked.

On the VGA input, the Mac Mini works at 1080p with the only problem being the image is underscanned, and therefore doesn't take up the entire screen. I didn't find a way to adjust that, if there is a way to do it, please let me know.

I connected the iScan via VGA and when you select the 1080p/60 or 1080p/50 outputs, the TV displays "Mode not supported." This is on the VGA input. Now the Mac Mini says it's at 59Hz, but I haven't figured out how to switch the Hz on the 1080p output of the iScan yet. Assuming I can figure out how to fix the underscan on the VGA input, this might be a workable solution. I have to call DVDO to find out how to create a custom resolution output. So for I have been unsuccessful in outputting 1080p to the VGA input via the iScan.

The way I have the iScan connected now is through HDMI at 1080i/60. I will say that watching a DVD on the TV through the iScan is almost HD! It is truly amazing. However, the TV's internal deinterlacer is plain crap! I'm not sure it does anything. The jaggies are really, really, really bad! This is especially noticeable on SD content. Now I have not connected the DirecTivo to the TV directly, but I will try that and see how it looks. I can't imagine the iScan is causing the problem though.

Anyway, those are my observations so far. Overall I'm happy with the TV, but I'm also disappointed at the same time. When someone releases a true 1080p TV, I just might have to switch.

Best Regards,
Adam

I'm sure that the Samsung 1080P sets next year will accept 1080P over the HDMI. I wouldn't be surprised if they update the current model sometime during the production year. We can only hope that if they do update the current model that they will offer current owners some type of upgrade path so we can have 1080P over the HDMI.
My set shows a delivery of this Friday. I need to hurry up and remove all my old cables and redo my entire setup so I can be ready for the delivery. One good thing for me with the 1080P input, since it doesn't accept it, there is no reason for me to upgrade my iscanHD to the HD+. It sounds like it will have an excellent picture from my SDI RP82 DVD player going by Enversions observations.

Since the only 1080p video available and likely to be available in the foreseeable future is 24 frames per second, what use is 1080p 60fps if you don't play games.
1080p 24fps support is VERY important, as playing 24fps video at 60fps SUCKS due to 3:2 pull down judder.
1080p 24fps is required, but 1080p 60fps you can keep.

Remember that BluRay will only support 1080p 24fps.

Well I for one will be playing my HD-DVDs/Blu Ray through an HTPC as they will release internal blu ray drives/HD-DVDs for PCs eventually. At that point, it would be nice to have the ability to hook up the set through DVI at 1920x1080 at 60hz (which we don't even truly know if that is the case yet). So the "use" 1080p at 60hz is simply PC compatability which is essential for internal bluray/hd-dvd players...and that will be the best way to achieve the best image quality.....just as its the best way to achieve optimal DVD image quality right now.

It should also be noted that other current 1080p sets also can't use 1080p sources through HDMI. I have the westy 37 inch 1080p LCD set and cannot do 1080p through the HDMI.

I'm a bit tired so excuse any typo's.

I originally pre-ordered a 6178 through VANNS. On 07/15 I cancelled with Vanns because they sent me an EMail stating they would not receive the tv until mid August and I would not receive it from them until end of August. So I cancelled with Vanns and pre-ordered with TVA using the powerbuy. I was told I was about 181 on the list (ouch). I have vacation starting on 07/28 and I wanted the TV by then.

Yesterday 07/24 I went to FRY's in Downer's Grove IL to pickup a new motherboard for my son's computer. They had the 6168 on display being sold for MSRP. They had a 6167 next to it. They had Space Jam being fed to the TV's via component. I could not find any other sources connected to the TV. The picture on the 6168 was noticeably better than the 6167 (color and detail).

A sales rep stopped by and stated they had three 6168's in stock. He asked if I was interested. I said yes, but not for that price. He asked me what price I would pay. I explained I had the TV on preorder through the internet and gave the TVA price. He asked If I would split the difference. I told him my TV should arrive in a few weeks. The price he was offering plus tax was worth the wait. He stated he would see what his manager could do. He came back a few minutes later and gave me a price within $$$ of the powerbuy. With tax and FRY's 5 year warranty I came out within $$$ of the powerbuy so I bought it. My wife was ticked but at least I will have it for vacation.

Loading it into the my Dodge Grand Caravan. We had to remove the top of the box. With the bottom still intact we were just able to slide it through the side door (Stow and GO is great). I drove it home.

I took my 32" tv off my stand I had setup for the new TV and brought it back to my bedroom ( I had a Mits 55807 which I sold a month ago, not knowing these TV's would be delayed). I disconnected the s-video cables from my receiver. I hooked up my Samsung HD850 via HDMI. I hooked up my Samsung Sir TS-160 (Directv HD) via DVI to HDMI cable. Almost forgot to connect the analog audio cable since DVI does not pass audio. Connected my XBox via component using the HDpack. My TV came with a manual for the 78 series instead of the 68. I noticed on page 108 (game mode page) the was a sticker making a correction for resetting anynet after using game mode. I wonder if they used the 78 manual in my box since it had been updated with the sticker?

Discovery HD had a Science of StarWars show on. Most of the footage was obviously video upconverted for the show. The parts where Anthony Daniels was speaking to R2D2 and C3PO were filmed in HD and blew my old 55807 out of the water ( I never had a professional calibration, used DVE myself on the 55807). It had 3D look that I haven't remembered seeing since I first bought the 55807.

To please my wife we watched Miss Congeniality 2. The movie looked good but sucked like Ishtar. My wife and I noticed the lips were lagging behind the audio coming out of my Yamaha HTR-5760. My wife thought the movie was so bad she started skipping chapters and we finished the movie in 20 minutes. She went to bed and I started playing with the tv.

I turned everything off and then back on to see if I could get rid of the lip synch issue. No luck the TV still lagged behind the audio on both Directv and dvd. I had the HD850 outputting at 480P, 720P and 1080i none of them made a difference the tv still lagged. Most noticeable when having audio come from the tv and my Yamaha receiver. There was an echo. I used the audio delay on my Yamaha setting it in increments of ten. At 120ms the delay / echo was gone and lip sych was no longer a problem. I tried several disks including StarWars EpII. Every disc was off sych unless I put the delay on using my Yamaha.

Xbox time. I'm guessing it is also lagging since the HD850 lagged at 480P and its other settings. Playing StarWars Battlefront I did not notice a problem. Playing Forza I noticed I was over steering. After about five laps I was able to compensate with out noticing. Note I did have the input set to Game on the 6168 which I dont believe makes a difference since the Xbox is outputting at 480p.

The Samasung HD850 kept giving me a warning on screen stating the display device does not support HDMI audio. When I changed the HD850 digital output in the menus to PCM it was able to send audio to the TV which is when I would hear the echo. But it would also only send 2ch audio to the Yamaha. So I set it back to bitstream. I can disable the warning message on the HD850. However when I turn it on and off the message gets enabled again. Kind of annoying but it only last a few seconds. It does not appear that the 6168 will accept a 5.1 signal through the HDMI. Note the only thing I have that is HDMI to HDMI is the HD850.

The HD850 did not appear to be passing blacker than black using HDMI. I tried using both expand and normal for HDMI in the HD850 menus. Neither made a difference. I know it was passing BTB via S-video to my 32".

In conclusion the tv has the best picture I have scene. I may not be keeping the HD850 since it does not appear to pass BTB. I have to test it with component and see if it will pass BTB, maybe the 6168 doesn't have the contrast for it. I tried it in dynamic mode and movie mode and it did not make a difference. Blacks in DVD's did not appear to have the same detail as before. Note I used to keep my contrast on my55807 higher then DVE and AVIA recommend. The blacks might look good to most people.

I am not a serious gamer, so I don't think I will have any problems with the Xbox since I was able to compensate in Forza. A serious gamer may want to try a different TV. If you are going to use the 6168 for HD and dvd's it should work great for you if your audio receiver has a delay. The picture is worth the slight delay.

Hopefully I did not break any forum rules above. If I did let me know and I will edit the post. I'm used to lurking not posting. I edited out the price difference.

moss: thanks for the GREAT post!

Were you able to note what sort of audio (2.0 or 5.1) was being transmitted out the optical output to your receiver from the TV when the input to the TV was through a HDMI cable?

Sure would like an answer to this.

I just tested the 6168 with the Hd850 using component the cables from my XBOX. It appears the TV does not accept BTB or has limited BTB. Since black level for both on DVE was the same. I didn't expect the same black level as my old Mits 55807. HDMI appeared to look better on the HD850.

Since the manufacturer's spec was not saying that it would work, the burden of proof should be on those claiming that it does.

As others have said, get a few people to confirm they got is working with a source that they know is 1080P with NO "issues" such as funny text, before proclaiming all over the forums that it does work.

My skepticism was based on the both the Samsung spec/claim and the fact that schaffer970 said that there will still "issues" with the image. In a later post schaffer970 has now corrected himself saying that the TV was reporting 1080i and not 1080P.

Now we have several others testing it and all have come up with the same result, namely that 1080P is NOT being accepted and displayed correctly by the set. This is not definitive proof that is does not work as there is a chance that their PC's are not putting out a standard consumer 1080P output, but all the indications are now that it does not work in spite of the severe wishful thinking of some.

I don't know what Gazelle has done to upset you so, but it looks like you and tonydeluce were saying he was wrong and calling him names when he now appears to be correct.

moss312, My 6168 clearly passes blacker than black, using DVE. I tested it using a Sony DVP-S560D DVD player over component cables.

Don't remember exactly but you can work on the VGA underscan in the menus. Set the PC input to PC and then go into the picture menu. There are several options that are only available if you set the PC input to PC. These include moving image up/down left/right and expanding the image. I didn't play with these yet but saw them.

Vadnu. I'll have to try an older JVC Prog Player I have and see if it does. Maybe its the HD850. The HD850 did pass it to my 32" using s-video. I'm not liking the quality of the HD850 though. With your Sony DVD do the darks appear to have less detail that your previous TV?

I wonder if anyone has tried the Panasonic S77 or S97 with the 6168. I would like to know how they pass BTB and handle MB over HDMI.

I based my "likelyhood of 1080p over HDMI" on certain items reported and
when it turrned out that the set was reporting 1920x1080i and not
1920x1080p I asserted that it was *unlikely* but I still don't rule it
completely out.

I personally did not call Gazelle names. I said I don't believe anyone takes
him seriously. And the reason I don't believe people take him serious
is due to numerous posts where he makes blanket statements about one
technology being better than other, etc.

The fact is, each technology that continues in production offers
consumers something or it would not continue to ship in any volume.

The JVC D-ILA which he continus to talk about "buzz" on the street,
best picture at CES, most anticipated TV, etc. are bright TVs that
are great for certain types of content.

That content is *not* movies with dark content due to the poor
black levels and low constrast ratio. So far Sony is the only company
who has been able to offer LCOS without these limitations.

For those that have used a calibration DVD (DVE), what numbers did you get for brightness, contrast, color, etc?

Please post.

I have the hd850 and a 60vs810... I notice the blacks aren't as good as my old toshiba.

You will always have a significant (1-2 second) lag between the digital and analog channels. The digital processing requires a buffer of that size to do the decode, decompression and error correction. No amount of processing speed will change that.

Lee

Dear Gamers,

I suspect that someone else will be able to provide feedback prior to this weekend, but my 6168 should be delivered on Friday afternoon. While I'm not a *super* hardcore gamer (I have a job, a wife, and don't live in my mom's basement), my game playing certainly borders on the excessive - much to the dismay of the aforementioned female.

By Saturday morning I should be able to comment on the performance of the PS2, GameCube and Xbox. Although if Halo 2 exhibits unmanageable lag, you'll probably hear my feedback prior to then. I'll be the guy screaming, Saaaaaaamsuuuuuuuung! like Kirk screaming Khaaaaan! in Star Trek II. =0)