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Samsung 1080p Owner's Thread --- HLRxxx8W DLP Models - Page 17

post #481 of 12092
I'm kind of bummed about the inability of my new 5678 to display 1080p over HDMI. Do you think that a firmware upgrade could resolve the issue, or is this strictly hardware related due to bandwith concerns? Regardless, has anyone considered writing Samsung and calling them out on this BS?
post #482 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by dealer92 View Post

Well I'm no audio exert nor an expert on my AVR, so I could be completely wrong here. Here is what I have... Sam 950 set to PCM (Bit stream I get no audio and the HDMI Audio format not supported message) I have also turned off the PCM Down sampling on the DVD.

I then hit the audio button on the Sam Remote and get the DTS 5.1 CH Audio (What the DVD is exporting). TV Menu doesn't let me change digital output but it is showing outputting PCM.

On the Onkyo 602 it is showing signal as "PCM fs: 48k" the dts symbol and the Neo 6 are displayed and I hear music from the front speakers voices from the center and Crowd from the surround speakers. Sounds great, still need to turn off TV audio as they are slightly off, though not enough to detect much when watching lips to voices.

It's not passing 5.1 audio then, it's passing 2-channel and your Onkyo is using the DTS Neo:6 algorithm to provide "simulated" surround sound. It's no different than watching a normal stereo tv show that is processed into "virtual" surround. Thanks for the update, that clarifies things a bit...
post #483 of 12092
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluefrost View Post

I'm kind of bummed about the inability of my new 5678 to display 1080p over HDMI. Do you think that a firmware upgrade could resolve the issue, or is this strictly hardware related due to bandwith concerns? Regardless, has anyone considered writing Samsung and calling them out on this BS?

1080p on HDMI was never in the spec's for these sets. The Samsung literature for the sets specifically said 1080i was what the max supported. In prior years, Samsung has not made firmware releases available to consumers.
post #484 of 12092
Um, ok I'm a little lost here.

Is 1080p on the new hlr-xx78 sets supported anywhere? i.e. over component but not hdmi? What kind of 1080p does it support? Does it just mean that the TV will support upconversion of whatever signal comes through and display it as 1080p in a pixelated and unflattering way?

If so, maybe I should just purchase a 720p hlr-5067?

If someone could clarify, that would be great.

thx

Chris in NYC
post #485 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManhattanNYC35 View Post

Um, ok I'm a little lost here.

Is 1080p on the new hlr-xx78 sets supported anywhere? i.e. over component but not hdmi? What kind of 1080p does it support? Does it just mean that the TV will support upconversion of whatever signal comes through and display it as 1080p in a pixelated and unflattering way?

If so, maybe I should just purchase a 720p hlr-5067?

If someone could clarify, that would be great.

thx

Chris in NYC

There are many many posts on this very topic. The bottom line is that the 1080p sets will upconvert all inputs to 1080p, which provides a much greater resolution than the 720p sets. This, coupled with the significantly improved contrast ratio, have led many to report that the 1080p picture is much better than the 720p sets. BTW - there is presently no 1080p source material and it is doubtful that the networks will go 1080p in the near future. It is possible that the new DVD format may be 1080p, but I don't believe that has been determined yet. Anyway, this is a very short digest of the issue you raised, you can get a lot more (and probably better) info from the many other posts on this topic.
post #486 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by dealer92 View Post

Well I'm no audio exert nor an expert on my AVR, so I could be completely wrong here. Here is what I have... Sam 950 set to PCM (Bit stream I get no audio and the HDMI Audio format not supported message) I have also turned off the PCM Down sampling on the DVD.

I then hit the audio button on the Sam Remote and get the DTS 5.1 CH Audio (What the DVD is exporting). TV Menu doesn't let me change digital output but it is showing outputting PCM.

On the Onkyo 602 it is showing signal as "PCM fs: 48k" the dts symbol and the Neo 6 are displayed and I hear music from the front speakers voices from the center and Crowd from the surround speakers. Sounds great, still need to turn off TV audio as they are slightly off, though not enough to detect much when watching lips to voices.

PCM only outputs at 2 Ch. The tv won't pass DTS. NEO6 does a great job of simulating surround sound but it is not using discrete channels. NEO6 I believe is normally used for 2 ch sources.

My Yamaha displays how many channels it is receiving and displays them as small speakers on it's display. While using PCM on the 850 it shows two speakers. While using bitstream (which the 6168's HDMI does not accept) it shows 5 speakers and the subwoofer.

While your at it, if you don't mind, attach an optical cable from your 950 to your Onkyo. Whle the 950 is set to PCM see if the tv's sound matches the sound going from your dvd player directly to your receiver. I had an echo and had to delay the Yamaha by 120ms to get rid of the echo and match the sound. With delay while going directly to the receiver from my HD850 I was also finally able to get rid of a slight lip synch problem. I'm interested in seeing if you notice the problem with your delay since I have been getting lip sych problems and slight video lag with all progressive sources. I haven't tried 480i in game mode with my xbox yet to see if game mode fixed it.
post #487 of 12092
For anyone checking for lip synch problems beware of your source. Using the 6168's speakers I usually notice a large lip sych problem with Discovery HD on directv. HDNET and HDMovies appears fine. UniversalHD also appeared to be off but I barely watch it.

Note: I am refering to the 6168's speakers not Directv directly to my Yamaha which I have to delay by 120ms in general to sych audio.
post #488 of 12092
Anyone else see the lip sync problems that Moss is referring to?

I am scratching my head, wondering why Samsung would produce a set with built in lip sync problems. This is a little strange.

Or, is Moss seeing upconverting problems with his source?

Moss, do you know what sort of converting the DirecTV is doing? Did you notice this with your previous TV?
post #489 of 12092
I have a beginner's question.

I know their is plenty of discussion on if these sets output 5.1. I was planning on using a Cable Card with my set (6168). Does anyone know if the set will output 5.1 while using a Cable Card? Or are you all just refering to the set passing 5.1 thru using HDMI?
post #490 of 12092
wtr1 I didn't have problems with my mits 55807. The sources on Directv can be differ in lip synch. I noticed the same problems with DiscoveryHD when I had Directv outputting 480i to a 32" set I was using, while on pre-order (cancelled pre-order and bought at local Fry's for anyone not keeping track), until I bought the 6168. The Directv Samsung sir-160 is outputting at 1080i. Some channels need less delay from my Yamaha than others. So some of it is source dependant. DVD has been consistent with it's needed delay so far. Have only tried a few dvds. SW ep2, incredibles, dinasour. All look great but audio was off synch.
post #491 of 12092
While watching the shuttle launch countdown on HDnet I have to delay my receiver by 100ms to match the tv speaker's sound.
post #492 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmaroun View Post

...Does anyone know if the set will output 5.1 while using a Cable Card? Or are you all just refering to the set passing 5.1 thru using HDMI?

We're just talking about passing 5.1 into the set via HDMI and out of the set via optical to an AVR. There should be no problem with sending 5.1 out via optical once the set's accepted it via Cable Card.

EDIT: I'm not positive that the set can receive 5.1 from the Cable Card ... I'm only positive that if it can, you won't have any trouble sending 5.1 via optical to your AVR.
post #493 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbwhite View Post

These sets have diamond shaped mirrors. These diamond shaped mirrors are used to display square pixels. There are many excellent threads on the geometry of the TI chips. I like especially http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=534863.

Don

The diamond pixel/wobulation principle is a very cool concept, and an excellent cost-cutting measure, however it is still much different than a true 1080p display. I believe that 1920x1080 discrete pixels will still always look better, just as I believe that the Samsungs 720p tvs that use the HD2+ chip look better than the current generation. The diamond pixels may be nice for video content, but for things like a computer, where the source is expecting square, discrete pixels, the image will always look blurrier, because of the overlap between pixels. And computer sources are where people most want 1:1 pixel mapping. I continue to hope that at some point TI will produce a full 1080p, square pixel, non-wobulated chip.
post #494 of 12092
Is a 120ms audio delay something most people who aren't A/Vphiles likely to notice? I have an older HT receiver that doesn't have an audio delay function. I would hate to have to buy a new receiver just to resolve this issue.
post #495 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by rictus View Post

Is a 120ms audio delay something most people who aren't A/Vphiles likely to notice?

120 mS delay should be noticable to most persons.

If the source is 60 fps video, 120 mS = ~7 frames delay
If the source is 24 fps film, 120 mS = ~3 frames delay

Here's a discussion of the subject:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features...g_it_all.shtml

Dolby specs maximum delay of +5/-15 mS for AC/3.

The ITU is a little more lenient with a spec of +45/-125 mS as perceptible and +90/-185 mS acceptable.

-phil
post #496 of 12092
we just put out the 5668 at the store i work at in east hanover, nj and next to a fujitsu and pioneer elite plasma it holds its own. easily the best dlp i've seen
post #497 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by midblue View Post

The diamond pixel/wobulation principle is a very cool concept, and an excellent cost-cutting measure, however it is still much different than a true 1080p display. I believe that 1920x1080 discrete pixels will still always look better, just as I believe that the Samsungs 720p tvs that use the HD2+ chip look better than the current generation. The diamond pixels may be nice for video content, but for things like a computer, where the source is expecting square, discrete pixels, the image will always look blurrier, because of the overlap between pixels. And computer sources are where people most want 1:1 pixel mapping. I continue to hope that at some point TI will produce a full 1080p, square pixel, non-wobulated chip.

You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion, as are we all.

I'm one of those people who prefer the "film-like" quality of a wobulated chip. And if it's less expensive, so much the better.
post #498 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackLT View Post

The point is to test the scaling ability of the Samsung, see how it handles standard PC resolutions. Not many will run the desktop apps at 1920x1080 unless they have a telescope in hand

But But...... World of Warcraft in Widescreen Resolution = drool...

Seriously though I have no qualms about lower resolutions, as long as you don't use a 4:3 and stretch it!

- D
post #499 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMSko View Post

...The bottom line is that the 1080p sets will upconvert all inputs to 1080p, which provides a much greater resolution than the 720p sets. This, coupled with the significantly improved contrast ratio, have led many to report that the 1080p picture is much better than the 720p sets. ....

I've yet to be convinced of this.

In general the more you upconvert the softer the image gets, unless some real time sharpening is applied.

Its going to be hard for a wombled 960x540 or even 960x1080 chip to compete against a HD2+ V2 1280x720 rock solid image.

Most of the early posts on new sets have too much OH WOW in them.
It takes a while for excitement to wear down, and to see unbiased information.

Where does TI actually state they are using 960x1080 chips, in the white paper I read , it stated 960x540??Anything that wombles is not ideal.
post #500 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by RelDudeGOP View Post

we just put out the 5668 at the store i work at in east hanover, nj and next to a fujitsu and pioneer elite plasma it holds its own. easily the best dlp i've seen

Thanks for the report; sounds mighty encouraging.
post #501 of 12092
I plan to order a 5668 or 6168 tomorrow.
Is there a down side to the 6168 vs the 5668.
The room is large so I have no space issue.

Also, I see many posts about extended warranties.
I was always taught they were not a good value.
Are these TVs more likely to break.
post #502 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by twp View Post

I plan to order a 5668 or 6168 tomorrow.
Is there a down side to the 6168 vs the 5668.
The room is large so I have no space issue.

Also, I see many posts about extended warranties.
I was always taught they were not a good value.
Are these TVs more likely to break.


The cost difference between a 5668 and 6168 is only a few hundred dollars. So, I would go for 6168 (that is what I did!).
Extended warranties are like insurance. You take them if that would make you feel better. I took them just for the screen protection warranty as I have a 3 year old
post #503 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackLT View Post

Its going to be hard to for a wombled 960x540 or even 960x1080 chip to compete against a HD2+ V2 1280x720 rock solid image.

How do you think the image from the HD2+ 1280x720 looks compared
to the image from a 9 in. CRT that displays one pixel at a time?

Also there is very little 720p content, most content is 1080i, so there will
much less processing, in general, having a 1080p display than a 720p
display since 1080i60fps can be de-interlaced to 1080p30fps with
no conversion - just simply de-interlacing. Also HD-DVD stores the image
as 1080i.

The wobulated 720p sets had some issues with softness etc. but many
are reporting very detailed images with the 1080p sets. Also the
black level and contrast ratio of the new 1080p DLP chips has bumped
them up to a new level even if the resolution wasn't increased.
post #504 of 12092
Good day all,
I'd like to start by saying that I am a newbie to this whole HD world. I just purchased my first ever surround sound system and I am waiting for my 5668 set. I have been trying to read as much as possible about HD and everything else involved. It takes me a while sometimes to figure out what all the acronyms stand for, but I usually can figure it out.

Here is my question. I am looking for any help in setting up my system as far as what should be connected to what and through which input/output. Here are my components.

Samsung 5668 (on the way)
Pioneer VSX-1015TX AVR. It has all kinds of inputs both digital and analog.
Klipsch 5.1 surround sound.
Samsung DVD-HD850. It has an HDMI Output
Shuttle XPC with VGA output and Onboard 6 Channel Audio w/Digital (SPDIF) Ports
Comcast Digital Cable w/ DVR (scheduled for install when TV arrives) with DVI and HDMI outputs. I don't know what the make/model is.

Here is what I am looking for out of this system.

1. I would like to play DVD with the best picture quality through my 5.1 Surround Sound.

2. The Shuttle PC is only for accessing the Internet (using TV as a display), playing some home movies that I have edited, and listening to my MP3 collection through my surround sound system.

3. Watching Digital Cable with the option of listening through surround or just through the TV set speakers.

4. Probably will pick up a PS2 sometime in the near future for occasional gaming.

If someone has a bit a time and would like to help a newbie get the best possible A/V configuration out of these components, I would greatly appreciate it.

If this not I understand also.

Thanks
-dreamr
post #505 of 12092
I agree with everyone who says this is a great site. I've read this thread and others for several months. The problem I'm having is that my memory can't keep up. The first page is great, but what I'd like to see is something about best practices for the set up, configuration, etc.

For example:
with a HD Directv/TIVO box, which connections do I want to use?
I have a 6.1/video receiver, how do I make sure I get the 5.1 while also getting the best picture?
How does any of this affect my DVD player connection/setup?
What other settings to I want to make?
On the up conversion thing, how do I set my Directv box, DVD player, etc. to get best picture?

I know all the answers are here some place, but does anyone have a way to pull some of the basics and/or best practices together a little better? I know best practices don't apply to everyone but it would be a good point of departure for many of us. If we can't get a list of best practices, can we get a running list of setup/connection/configuration things to avoid?

Thanks
post #506 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilB View Post

120 mS delay should be noticable to most persons.

If the source is 60 fps video, 120 mS = ~7 frames delay
If the source is 24 fps film, 120 mS = ~3 frames delay

Here's a discussion of the subject:

http://www.tvtechnology.com/features...g_it_all.shtml

Dolby specs maximum delay of +5/-15 mS for AC/3.

The ITU is a little more lenient with a spec of +45/-125 mS as perceptible and +90/-185 mS acceptable.

-phil


Bummer, it looks like I'm going to cancel my pre-order. I watch a lot of moves all through my veryyyy expensive sound system. To watch the latest star wars and it act like watching an old Bruce Lee flick is out of the question.
post #507 of 12092
Hi JackLT - And others complaining of 1080i

You know the "OH WoW" factor started way back at CES in January and it was by professional reviewers and AV Specialists at CES reporting back and CNET confirming it choosing it as next best thing and Best of Show when that show was packed with 1080P competitors they chose Samsung! If you look at the detail of the reviews old and new is that we're talking far more than just 1080P upscaling and what it does for 1080i we're talking about up to 10,000:1 CR and blacks and detail that are reported as phoenomenal.

With all the discussion rambling about the Holy Grail 1080P what in the world is wrong with 1080i upconverted? I'm awaiting my 6768 but viewing my Sharp 32" LCD FP and view HD daily in 1080i and it is fricken beautiful and what is this constant rambling on about 1080P disappointment unless these folks have never seen a true 1080i on a quality Panel? I've selected and copied every review into a running text file and then will save it as an csv file into either my database or excel and then sort the results for an overall analysis - People are saying Oh Wow because I trust that is their experience - "Wow Factor" much like a quality Plasma can provide.

I've yet to see a single competitor document that they will be passing true 1080P and from what source? Let's accept they are on equal footing with Samsung as first bringing it to market rather than just a marketing ploy like Mits did in S. Cal.

Overwhelming results are there is a significant difference in detail (blacks), color and pop between 720P and 1080P and that is what was reported at CES back in January. Not to say anyone else may do it better than Samsung besides Q006 but it certaiinly is promising so far so why all the naysayers doubting it without viewing it?

This constant complaint about not true 1080P when in fact 1080i is awesome and dramatic CR and blacks and brightness how can we complain. Anyhone have spare $10K to upgrade to a Qualia 006? Which at this point the only RPTV that may be competitive. Anyone out there disappointed with 1080i that has viewed it on a quality Panel? If so then don't consider buying it - that's an easy choice.
post #508 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamr View Post

Good day all,
I'd like to start by saying that I am a newbie to this whole HD world. I just purchased my first ever surround sound system and I am waiting for my 5668 set. I have been trying to read as much as possible about HD and everything else involved. It takes me a while sometimes to figure out what all the acronyms stand for, but I usually can figure it out.

Here is my question. I am looking for any help in setting up my system as far as what should be connected to what and through which input/output. Here are my components.

Samsung 5668 (on the way)
Pioneer VSX-1015TX AVR. It has all kinds of inputs both digital and analog.
Klipsch 5.1 surround sound.
Samsung DVD-HD850. It has an HDMI Output
Shuttle XPC with VGA output and Onboard 6 Channel Audio w/Digital (SPDIF) Ports
Comcast Digital Cable w/ DVR (scheduled for install when TV arrives) with DVI and HDMI outputs. I don't know what the make/model is.

Here is what I am looking for out of this system.

1. I would like to play DVD with the best picture quality through my 5.1 Surround Sound.

2. The Shuttle PC is only for accessing the Internet (using TV as a display), playing some home movies that I have edited, and listening to my MP3 collection through my surround sound system.

3. Watching Digital Cable with the option of listening through surround or just through the TV set speakers.

4. Probably will pick up a PS2 sometime in the near future for occasional gaming.

If someone has a bit a time and would like to help a newbie get the best possible A/V configuration out of these components, I would greatly appreciate it.

If this not I understand also.

Thanks
-dreamr

I'm not as experienced as many around here, maybe just a step or two ahead of you and can offer something to get you started. I would recommend

1) Connect your cable stb and your DVD player to the TV via HDMI cables; this will use the 2 HDMI inputs on the TV. This should give you the best video. (Set both sources to output 1080i.)

2) Connect the audio out from the stb and the DVD player to your AV receiver via optical (digital) Toslink (or digital coax) cables. This will allow you to have 5.1 sound from both sources.

2) Mute the TV speakers and forget about them.

2) Connect your pc to the pc (VGA) input of the TV with an appropriate cable.

Good luck! This is a pretty standard approach; if you run into any tricky questions, I'm sure others help can help you out.
post #509 of 12092
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackLT View Post

...Where does TI actually state they are using 960x1080 chips, in the white paper I read , it stated 960x540??

The Smooth Picture document included in the 2005 CES Press Kit states 960 distinct column pairs and 540 distinct row pairs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackLT View Post

Anything that wombles is not ideal.

Of course, a lot of what one might consider to be ideal has a lot to do with how one will primarily use the set.

I'll agree that if I were planning on running PC apps on a DLP all day, I'd rather have the full orthogonal array of mirrors. I personally have no intention to use my 5078 for that very often. I'm willing to trade a bit of sharpness for an increased perceived fill factor for watching movies and such. Combine a smooth overall picture with, as Tony points out, a more dynamic value range, and you've got a real promising product that's reasonably affordable for people like me (who want a great picture, but don't want to spend an absolute fortune for perfection). Nothing like the art (or business) of compromise, eh?

Hey Daphoid, where are my 6 HDMI ports?
post #510 of 12092
I'm not sure if I'm supposed to ask this, but if I pay $35 to be an AVS club member, does anyone know if I'd get that back in additional savings on the 6168 or 6768 power buy?

thanks again
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